She actually mentioned divorcing. Fearing a trap.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

After many years of struggling in this relationship and me waiting for her to decide if she will separate or realize that it will take both of us to rebuild this relationship this Sunday she actually mentioned divorce. The conversation just sprang up. All of a sudden she says since I don't like you we should just split up. I asked for her meaning and she said divorce. Well I take that back it wasn't all of a sudden she was joking around about a male friend of a co-worker that she just told me she trash talks about his road race times. She runs a lot of races and apparently has I don't know if it was through her co-worker or whatever social media has said something to this guy about his race times. That was a   especially when she called him "Hotty Chad".

Then the conversation turned into divorce talk. I was not ready (nor would I anyway) for the conversation. Here is my question/comment or what have you. I want this relation to end. I wanted to jump up and say yes lets divorce. But I didn't I felt like I was being baited. She was looking for that reply to turn the tables on me. How do I move forward when this come s up again. The only reason the conversation stopped is that she got really sick with the flu so guess who stepped up ant took care her. She eve told me if I was that sick she wouldn't be doing anything for me. She did thank me for what I have been doing to make her feel more comfortable. But that is what I do. I can't end this even though I want to.

[Cipher13]

After many years of struggling in this relationship and me waiting for her to decide if she will separate or realize that it will take both of us to rebuild this relationship this Sunday she actually mentioned divorce. The conversation just sprang up. All of a sudden she says since I don't like you we should just split up. I asked for her meaning and she said divorce. Well I take that back it wasn't all of a sudden she was joking around about a male friend of a co-worker that she just told me she trash talks about his road race times. She runs a lot of races and apparently has I don't know if it was through her co-worker or whatever social media has said something to this guy about his race times. That was a   especially when she called him "Hotty Chad".

Then the conversation turned into divorce talk. I was not ready (nor would I anyway) for the conversation. Here is my question/comment or what have you. I want this relation to end. I wanted to jump up and say yes lets divorce. But I didn't I felt like I was being baited. She was looking for that reply to turn the tables on me. How do I move forward when this come s up again. The only reason the conversation stopped is that she got really sick with the flu so guess who stepped up ant took care her. She eve told me if I was that sick she wouldn't be doing anything for me. She did thank me for what I have been doing to make her feel more comfortable. But that is what I do. I can't end this even though I want to.

[GTX]

I'm curious to know what you think the trap is or what you think would happen if you take the bait.

I've looked back over some of your other posts and, in many ways, you could be describing my uBPD wife.  She threatened divorce several times over the last ten years and I usually caved and withdrew or told her I would fight her for custody (we have two kids) if it came to that. 

More recently when she said she wanted a divorce, I told her that I agree and think she may be right.  I still don't want to leave because I care about her and I don't want to break up our family, but I also realize that I haven't cared enough about myself and my own happiness in the past.

The interesting thing about responding the way I did is that she had a knee jerk reaction of contacting an attorney, but then pulled way back and agreed to go to counseling.  Don't know where it will go from here and I'm still very conflicted about what I want, but by letting her know that I am starting to think divorce is a real option, some power has shifted back to me.  It feels better than the helpless feeling I had before.
G

[Cipher13]

The trap is (how do I explain this) it is where she suggests it and if I agree to go along then I get painted black. Because after all these years I have tried hardest to keep this relationship together even though I haven't been treated in the best way. She have always feared that I would leave. This would be just what she expected and turn the words and the fight on me. While I have dealt with this anyway for years, over time I have done my best to avoid these conversations.

Right now I know she is wanting to have this talk. I want to have it where I don't end up agreeing to go through with this divorce only to have it some how turned into this being all my idea. What I can't understand and would like to be able to discuss with her is this "I Hate You, Don't Leave scenario. She will tell me she hates me and can't stand the sight or touch of me. But as soon as I leave the room she says she feels lonely and wants me to come back. I think she likes that I do everything for her (even though she can and should do most of these things herself) but doesn't like me specifically. I know she will never find someone else to do the servitude things I do for her. I think she does to.

[GTX]

I'm just curious as to what would be wrong with her saying it was your idea.  As long as you know the truth, does it really matter?

The most recent conversation with my wife that I referred to yesterday went basically like this:
She was upset and I asked her what was wrong.  She said she resented me and wasn't sure she wanted to work to repair our relationship (we had just started a new round of counseling, and she is angry about going).  I told her I was sorry for my past behaviors that left her feeling this way, and that I was willing to work on a repair through counseling.  She said she just couldn't stop thinking that it would just be best to end the marriage because she is tired of feeling like she hates me.

In the past, at that point, I would have either begged her to stop thinking that way or gotten mad at her and argued with her.  Instead, I simply told her that I agree that it will be a lot of hard work for both of us to do that, and that I am willing to do that work if it will result in both of us being happy. I explained that her happiness is very important to me and if the only way she can be happy is without me in her life, just say so and we can end it. 

At that point I told her I was going to give her some space and I left to run errands for a few hours.  When I returned, she was completely different.  So far (almost a week later) she is still in a fairly good place.  I know if may not last, and if it falls apart she may use that conversation to say it was all my idea, but I feel like it was best to be honest with her and to let her know that I agree that being apart would be best if we can't be happy otherwise.  Neither of us should hold the other prisoner and I don't care who is blamed in the end.

[Cipher13]

GTX you raise a good point.

In fact your situation is very similar to mine in what you described from the other day. We have tried counseling. She won't go because "I won't do the things to fix our relationship."  In the past I to would have begged and pleaded to get back on her good graces and bend to any demand. I didn't want to bee seen as the one that is giving up. Even though she is suggesting it. When we were first dating in a span of 6 months she had broken up with me dozens of times for you pick a reason. One time it was because she didn't like how my voice sounded anymore. I would beg and plead and say I'd change my tone and how I speak. (dumb! no idea why I would do that.)

Maybe there is more to why I can't let go of this relationship. I am struggling with why I hang on to something that has cost me family, friends and 16+ years of my life. Of which looking back I can say more than half of it sadly I hated.

[formflier]

Hey... .we need to clearly know what you want.  I think I saw you want a divorce and get out.

Clarity:  If that is what you want... .why not do it?  Am I correct in that you don't want to "be painted black"?

I'll hush and make sure I understand correctly.

FF

[Cipher13]

Yes I want a divorce and to be on my own again.

[GTX]

We have tried counseling. She won't go because "I won't do the things to fix our relationship." 

I have been in a similar situation to what you described.  When we have gone to counseling in the past, she has played the role of the innocent victim and claimed that everything wrong in our relationship is my fault.  Even though every couples counselor we have seen has recommended that she seek private therapy and identified specific issues that she needed to address outside of our couples counseling, she maintains that I am the one that needs to change or be fixed. Counselors have recommended books so I buy and read them, but she won't touch them (says she "doesn't need to".  During and after the counseling, I have tried very hard to employ the strategies and techniques suggested, and she has just continued to act exactly the same.  Despite acknowledging that it takes both partners working at it to make a difference, she doesn't try and chooses to complain about me instead.  After some period of time, she will typically claim that we are still stuck in a crappy situation because I didn't do what needed to be done to fix the relationship or fix myself.   

I have had it with that routine and have told her so.  We are giving it one final go in an effort to preserve the family since our kids are still in the home.  If this fails and she follows the same pattern as before, I cannot and will not stay. 

The biggest difference this time is I have let her know that.  Instead of caving like I did in the past, I have told her (not in a threatening way, but honestly) that I want her to be happy and that I want to be happy as well.  We both acknowledge that we are capable of happiness in the relationship based on the past (although it has been years).  We also both acknowledge that things have to change for us to have any chance of regaining that happiness. 

I am making a concerted and determined effort to hear her concerns and recognize her needs, repairs harms I have caused, and be a better husband.  Most of being a better husband revolves around realizing that she is a good person that happens to have BPD, and that the BPD is what makes her behave in ways that are harmful to me and our family.  In the past I had convinced myself that she was just an uncaring and hateful person and I let that cloud my judgement about her.  I don't know if she will be able to break out of the patterns that she has been stuck in for years, but I am giving her that opportunity and offering her love and support as we try. 

If this fails, at least my current approach will allow me to walk away with less regret.  I will not feel like I bailed for no reason.  In the end, I don't care if I am blamed.  I just want to be happy again.

One final note: our kids are now teenagers and they recognize a lot of what is going on with her.  She dotes on the oldest child but often treats the youngest very similar to how I am treated.  That child has told me that she wants to go to college out of state and, when pressed for a reason, said she wants to get away from her mother.  They both recently told me that they are surprised I haven't divorced her yet because it is so obvious that she hates me (she complains about me to them a lot).  The revelation that my kids get it and won't be shocked if the marriage ends contributed to some of the freedom I now feel to pursue my own emotional well being and happiness.   

You have to take care of yourself.  You can offer love to another, but if they don't want it or are unable to accept it without harming you in the process, you are only hurting yourself.

[PeteWitsend]

Yes I want a divorce and to be on my own again.

It's hard.

Especially when they present the option at random like that.

You may be giving up a lot in the process... .

if you have kids, you'll no longer see them everyday.

if you have a house, you'll probably have to sell it and split the proceeds.

all joint possessions, or things of yours he/she might want... .either give them up or prepare to fight for them.  (and the cost of fighting for them will far outweigh their value, unless you're in The 1%)

It's not easy.  Even though on some level you might realize it's the only option.  You might know in your heart that you can't live like this for the rest of your life, you still have to prepare to leave.

And if you're the kind of person that married someone with BPD, you're (ironically) probably not the impulsive type, so simply storming out on a whim is probably not your nature.  You need to prepare: physically, mentally, and emotionally, for this.

[formflier]

Yes I want a divorce and to be on my own again.

OK... .so... .what is your next step in this process?  How do you want this to play out?

FF

[Waddams]

Sunday she actually mentioned divorce. The conversation just sprang up. All of a sudden she says since I don't like you we should just split up. I asked for her meaning and she said divorce. Well I take that back it wasn't all of a sudden she was joking around about a male friend of a co-worker that she just told me she trash talks about his road race times. She runs a lot of races and apparently has I don't know if it was through her co-worker or whatever social media has said something to this guy about his race times. That was a  Red Flag especially when she called him "Hotty Chad".

More red flags in this than can be counted.  She's lining up things to discard you and replace you with Hotty Chad.

Here is my question/comment or what have you. I want this relation to end. I wanted to jump up and say yes lets divorce. But I didn't I felt like I was being baited. She was looking for that reply to turn the tables on me. How do I move forward when this come s up again.

why wait for it to come up again - as you've stated other times, including in this thread, you want out already.  you've just refused to step up, take control for yourself, and do it because you're afraid of feeling like the bad guy in the situation.  without delving further into the cognitive distortions surround the bad guy concerns, the best way to move forward is to move forward with it.  either go hire the lawyer, and have it filed, and let her be surprised by the filing, or if you must tell her before filing, simply tell her that the marriage is broken, it's not right for you, and you're filing/already filed/hand her the paperwork/have the process server conveniently close by/etc.

just be ready to immediately have a safety plan in place.  always be recording, don't let a situation develop where you are at risk of false accusations or something else happen.  and be ready to move forward with a finance plan as well.  take the money in joint accounts, all of it, transfer it to accounts in your name.  pay off as much debt associated with your name with it as you can.  if you need to line up a new place to stay, be ready to move out, have all important paperwork/tax records/birth certificates/passports/etc. already removed and in a safe place (safe deposit box at a bank), etc.  any sentimental possessions, have them removed as well already.

you've been passively waiting for her to just leave so you don't have to be the guy that left his poor, sympathetic wife.  if you continue to do this, and she stays in control of how all this happens, she's going to make sure she uses that control to take you for every last thing and cent she can on her way out.  you can either continue as you have been and let it happen (imagine her alimony demands - then imagine paying it and having her spend it on gallivanting around Hotty Chad), or you can finally get proactive about protecting yourself, and start taking steps for your own well being. 

how all this goes from here is very dependent on how much you're willing to (or not willing to) take up accountability and responsibility for yourself.  take control of your life, or let her continue to dictate it all through how all this falls out.  which way do you think things will turn out better for you?

[Cat Familiar]

Waddams has given lots of sensible tips for proceeding with divorce.

I see so many of us nons here who tolerate awful behavior for years, myself included, in my first marriage. We desperately want to be perceived as "nice" and kind people, and we generally are. Our BPD partners can control us through telling us how thoughtless, how uncaring we are and we just jump higher, trying desperately to make them happy and gain their approval. It's a sweet bargain for them. Oftentimes they don't have to do much, because we're so busy taking up the slack.

What finally gave me freedom from this dynamic is embracing my "a*holeness". If I could feel OK being called negative names for the times I didn't jump to attention, overextend myself on his behalf, do things for him that he could easily do himself, refuse to sacrifice my health and well-being for his whims, then I was free. So what if he thought I was uncaring? I knew the truth. And the truth was that I had put up with far more crap than an emotionally healthy person would.

Something I think those of us in relationships with BPDs need to examine are our own family of origin dynamics. I finally figured out why I married two BPD husbands (husband number 2 is basically very nice, with some irritating BPD traits occasionally). It was because my mother had BPD and I spent my entire childhood trying to please her and desperately wanting scraps of affection and approval that she only occasionally doled out. When I met potential partners with BPD, we all know how compelling the BPD honeymoon phase is, and I felt so loved and approved for being myself that it was incredibly addictive.

Now I'm no longer so susceptible to those BPD charms because I'm more self-sufficient with emotional support and ability to self-soothe. But what it took was for me to embrace my less-than-positive side, something we all have--it's a part of being a normal human being. So what if I get irritable at times, or if I'm more concerned with my own needs than his? I used to feel tremendously guilty for looking out for myself; now I figure it's just part of being a healthy individual.

Once you take away the vulnerability where your BPD partner can accuse you of "bad" things, you can agree with them and still feel good about yourself. "Yeah, I was a bit selfish for eating that last slice of pizza in the fridge when I knew you might have wanted that as a snack." So f*n what? (You can think that last part, you don't have to say it.) It's really tremendously freeing and once you're able to do this, they no longer have this as a manipulative technique they can use on you. And the unspoken question is why do they think they're so special that they deserve the pizza more than you?

[Enabler]

that they deserve the pizza more than you?

Because if you loved them (by their definition of love) you would know they NEEDED that piece of pizza Cat!

[Cat Familiar]

Because if you loved them (by their definition of love) you would know they NEEDED that piece of pizza Cat!

LOL! Ain't that the truth?

[SamwizeGamgee]

Here's my stream of thinking. This is my case only, not necessarily for you.  
I get it.  

I want a divorce.  Wait.  No, not a divorce, I want peace, and to be free of my wife if that's what it takes.
My uBPD wife led me to read more of Buddha, in an odd twist of events.  So, more thoughts about that: Suffering.  Suffering is real.  Letting go is freeing.  Acceptance.  Acceptance of me, my faults.  My wife, her faults.  I was married about 17 years and had reached a state of being so puckered-up and trying to be more, better, and perfect, that I was broken.  When I could let go of trying to hit my wife's unobtainable expectations, I suddenly saw the dark side of me.  And not with dread, but acceptance.  It defused all her building steam as she tried in vain to hit all my guilt buttons.  Internally I could run the script, "yup, I messed up [blah blah blah].  It's what I do sometimes.  Sorry"

I could counter her, and my son's, wild blame and accusations with things like "that can be your opinion, and I accept that." When in fact, they were begging for an argument, I returned peace and acceptance.  I felt so much more powerful inside of myself, when I didn't have to exert power outside of myself.

Reading Forward's "Emotional Blackmail" was instrumental in my process of recovery.  I have also learned to look at interpersonal contact with my wife as a hostage negotiation - but, the hostages are only what I give to her - in the form of Fear, Obligation, and Guilt.  When I didn't value the lives of the hostages (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt) there was no more negotiation, and she lost a lot of her power over me.  Cat says a lot with her attitude too. [Hi Cat, I'm back].  I had to develop the DGAF* meter as I worked on my being a jerk instead of a nice guy all the time.  And it's a lot better when I DGAF about things that are outside of my responsibility (including my wife's moods).  
[*Don't Give A Frak]

So, Cypher.  You're not alone wanting a divorce.  If my wife suddenly confronted me and said she wants a divorce, I would try not to cry for joy, and hope she means it, but I have to make sure it goes peacefully.  So, I use my coping skills to carry on as married.  

Waddams points out things I thought of too when you describe wanting a divorce.  It won't be easy.  Protect yourself.  :)on't say a word if possible until your ducks are in a row. A very well considered row.  

[SamwizeGamgee]

I've wanted to clarify, that I am a "jerk" for things like not having highly charged discussions after 10PM, choosing not to argue, describing my feelings, and so forth. 

[Cat Familiar]

It's incredibly freeing to permit oneself to be a "jerk," knowing that the "jerkdom" we allow, wouldn't even be noted in a "normal" relationship.

From the pwBPD's perspective: how dare we choose to sleep at a reasonable time? (Hi Samwize)   And good grief, we have feelings too? That's absolutely not permissible. Only the pwBPD's feelings are allowed!

I love the DGAF modality. It took me a while to embrace it, because I'd been programmed since childhood to be so overly solicitous of my mother's ever-changing moods. Then it dawned upon me. Who gives a flying f* about what I'm feeling?  Uh, and the answer was... .nobody. At least not any of my BPD loved ones. Well, maybe they cared when they weren't triggered. But all it took to trigger them was for me to have feelings.

So I do care very deeply about REAL issues that affect them. But the transitory flights of feelings that pwBPD are subject to... .well, I treat it like watching a weird TV program. I "change the channel" by abruptly needing to do something: got to turn off water in the garden, a cat needs medication, have to feed the horses, got to move the goats, sheep, donkey, oops something's in the dryer, got to turn off the pool pump... .you get the idea.

[Dragon72]

Samwise, I'm not sure I understand. 

You say that if your wife tells you it's Game Over, you'd jump at the chance to split.  And yet you're prepared to live a life that involves Job-like tolerance and perpetual not-giving-a-frak until she does so.

My question is, why don't you want a divorce? Why not just rip the bandaid off and move to a Life 2.0 that doesn't involve needing the patience of a buddhist monk?

[Cipher13]

Dragon72,
Your question to Samwise is the exact same as I have been saying to myself. I want to divorce and yet I won't rip that band aid off. Knowing full well life 2.0 won't be anything like I am experiencing. I live in a constant state of not wanting to be in the I relationship in my mind and in my gut. Just not in my reality. It is like I have subconsciously given the power for my life to her. I make few if any choices that don't if not 100% require her approval then its in the high 90% range. I buy the groceries' and make the meals. But have no or little say in the menu. Nor will she provide her requests for food in advance for me to make what she will wont to eat for the week. This is just one example.

The other example is in a few hours I will be after work, driving and hour and a half to look at houses to buy. I don't want o move... .(well I do but by myself) Then drive 2 hours back home empty handed.

There is really one 1 thing and 1 thing only I have been fighting to figure out  for a long time now. Why can't I just tell her I can't continue and that I wan to move on without her.  I get there are marriage vows and commitments made and all that. I don't think that is it. I see and hear form her actions and words towards me she isn't happy. She doesn't like me and I am there to do things for her. There is no companionship, no relationship really. Even she admits its. I have the support of my family. I have the support of a few friends. I don't really have an exit plan in place. However I doubt that is why. Why can't I leave a person that hates me that I don't want to be with either? What is keeping me here?

[SamwizeGamgee]

You say that if your wife tells you it's Game Over, you'd jump at the chance to split.  And yet you're prepared to live a life that involves Job-like tolerance and perpetual not-giving-a-frak until she does so.

My question is, why don't you want a divorce? Why not just rip the bandaid off and move to a Life 2.0 that doesn't involve needing the patience of a buddhist monk?

All true, and all very perceptive. I'm hi-jacking the thread here, but, I hope Cipher will forgive me. 

First off, I think I'm well on my way to developing the patience, acceptance, and suffering of a Buddhist monk.  I hope to arrive at enlightenment and happiness likewise. 

Sadly, I think I may have arrived at the point of disassociation in marriage - that one of my sayings now is that my body is married, my spirit is free, and my heart is dead.  I've used some industrial strength letting go along the way.  Maybe I've waited too long out of fear to make a getaway.  Only partly joking do I say that my plan for a happy marriage is to stay in great shape, eat right, and hopefully outlive my wife.

Referring again to FOG, I am without fear now, but my actual obligations do include my kids.  That is my reason for not actively pursuing a divorce, though I want one.  We don't live in a world that is just.  I don't believe a family court would give equal, or even healthy, child custody time to me as a dad.  Kicking the proverbial hornet's nest and pursuing a divorce would likely give my wife extreme motive to alienate the younger kids. She essentially has alienated my D17 from me already.  Any custody at all would give her opportunity and ability to emotionally abuse and control the kids more.  Motive, opportunity, and ability: all the ingredients for a matriarical nightmare for a uBPD mom.  I'm held here to be the dad for a while longer.  At present, I can have untethered contact with my kids, without a court order.  That is worth a great deal.  Also, at present, with DGAF I can usually make it through a day-to-day routine without having to wade through the BPD abyss.  Even under the same roof, I'm mostly separated from my wife, so the chances of cracking some eggshells are lower.

It can't last.  The wound has to heal, or I will have to rip the bandaid off eventually.  I sometimes am brought to awareness of my deep anger and sadness, probably from pushing all the marriage pain and depression deeper inside.  But, on the surface, I can maintain.

[formflier]

Referring again to FOG, I am without fear now, but my actual obligations do include my kids.  That is my reason for not actively pursuing a divorce, though I want one.    

I love thread hijacks!   

My thinking is very similar to SG.  I have had a front row seat to how divorce plays out in my wife's FOO and it isn't pretty.

My wife and I have the last intact marriage on "her side".  On my side... there are no divorces... .none... look back several generations.

So... I don't "want" a divorce, yet I also don't have the marriage I "want"... .although my marriage is waaaay better than even a year ago.

For my part... I've focused heavily on other relationships that were "giving back" and "fulfilling" and that has helped me immensely.

Also, as my wife realized that I was letting my marriage "drop in rank" in my life... and I seemed happier, she has upped her game in a good way.

I sometimes wonder if I'm "the manipulative one" because I use my knowledge of "push pull" relationships to try and keep my wife "pulling" me towards her... .while I stay a bit "aloof".

Sadly, I understand she can't handle "closeness" and "intimacy".  Many many many times we get close and then she sabotages (although I don't think she "plots" that... .it is a  result of her emotional stuff...

Good thread... keep it up!

FF

[Red5]

Sadly, I think I may have arrived at the point of disassociation in marriage -

... .that one of my sayings now is that my body is married, my spirit is free, and my heart is dead. 

I've used some industrial strength letting go along the way. 

It can't last.  The wound has to heal, or I will have to rip the bandaid off eventually.  I sometimes am brought to awareness of my deep anger and sadness, probably from pushing all the marriage pain and depression deeper inside.  But, on the surface, I can maintain.

The highjack continues, please pardon Cipher13, et' all... .

I am also at a point of DGAF, .I will go ahead and modify it a little, .":)ILLIGAF"... .

The new addition is for, "do I look like I give a ___"… “DILLIGAF”

Well; do I, .do I “dilligaf”... .as Red5 looks into his secret mirror, what does he see staring back, is that one of those thousand yard stares, does Red5’s reflection look a little salty, hardened, weathered... .maybe a little beat up... .but wait a minute, is that a little grin I see, maybe a little sparkle in those tired old eyes... .what does the person in the mirror know that the alter person looking into mirror NOT know... .does the reflection know the future?

I now believe, that once you reach a point to where you just let go, and are not afraid anymore... .then you are free!, maybe along the lines as Sam is talking about.

I wonder, does my wife even know a thing about what I think I know now, about her, about this marriage, its present condition, ongoing, Albeit much better (tolerance) than it was fifteen months ago.

I have gotten used to it haven’t I… now I have found respite, even emotional rest because now I think I know what is wrong, has been wrong all along, with her (?)… and I have consigned myself to the resolute fact that she is not "going to change", what I now see, which has always been there, is what I get, for the duration, whatever that may be.

I;... .like formflier wrote, .have “learnt” many new tools, to be able to deal with;… and yes, even to use to manipulate my u/BPDw, yes!, .to “steer” as it were, to handle, handle her inevitable outburst, her endless paranoia and dysregulations, sometimes to a point of uneasy calm, sometimes not, sometimes I defuse it, sometimes it blows up in my face, part and parcel,

Divorce, not afraid of that anymore, or was I ever?

It does not really hurt anymore, when she says the things she does to me, no not really, I just dismiss it as another "BPD'ism"... .

I am a mental and emotional battleship, an ironclad, a dreadnought now, fully bunkered with fuel, and ammunition, stores, and spare parts…

So let’er rip… is that all you got, come on now babe, you disappoint me, you’re holding back!

I know, have some empathy... .let her run to the end of her rope, she'll come back in a little while (?).

Think I'll have a slice of pizza, and a frosty mug of beer !

What’s the very worst that could happen, what could she really do to me, take every $.cent outa my bank account, have me moved outa my house, make me pay alimony to her for the rest of her life… hmmm,

Is that all, .I've been in far worse circumstances  !

I've lived in a tent, onboard a ship, .I've slept out in the rain, the snow... .and the desert is very beautiful at night... .

No, I’m staying!,

Because you see, I have given up, and I am defeated, and I am just going to ignore her…

That’s a great plan right!

I am her caregiver, she depends on me, not the other way round, but, and if; she left me for her dentist tonight, would I cry, no I would not, yes, it’s come to that!

Next hijacker;… you’re up !

Red5

[formflier]

A group of thugs has taken a thread... .this may be new.  Every once in a while an individual will do it... .but a group... .?

I think we are unstoppable...    

FF

[GTX]

I can relate a little too well to this motley crew on this thread.

[Enabler]

No, I’m staying!, …

Because you see, I have given up, and I am defeated, and I am just going to ignore her ….

That’s a great plan right!

I am her caregiver, she depends on me, not the other way round, … but, and if; she left me for her dentist tonight, would I cry, … no I would not, … yes, it’s come to that!

Red, staying isn't the easy option as far as I'm concerned... .so when you say you're defeated and you've given up... .do you mean that? I see power, strength and courage to stay put when everyone and everything is telling you to run for the hills. I think you're doing yourself a disservice by downplaying your current stance. I have been quizzed by flying monkeys as to why I am not moving out of my home & away from my children who love me, why I'm not proactively assisting with a divorce process I don't want, and why I don't just accept my wife's unfounded accusations and many many other preposterous things that ignorant people might say. A weak version of me would yield to this drama. But what I have found strange is that no one has asked my why I am staying, standing and being non-compliant to the social media massive. What they have done is interpolate my actions of non-compliance as "he's abusive". Odd people.

When you accept and embrace the worst outcome you become invincible.   

[SamwizeGamgee]

Cipher - I hope this thread is going okay for what you wanted.  I'm observing that once people can identify verbal and emotional abuse and turn into survivors rather than victims - some of us just can't stay quiet.  And then we meet and hijack group discussions   

It's good to have a support network who "gets it" - the rest of the world has NO idea what it's like. Especially for what looks like a strong able man living in an ideal home with a "wonderful wife and kids."  Dr Jekyll, indeed.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Enabler - thanks for your perspective. 

[Enabler]

It's good to have a support network who "gets it" - the rest of the world has NO idea what it's like. Especially for what looks like a strong able man living in an ideal home with a "wonderful wife and kids."  Dr Jekyll, indeed.

I would like to hug you.

Understanding that I could be sane yet the rest of the world not get it was a momentous step in gaining me back... .it also stopped me trying to get everyone else to understand something which was so out of the realms of possibility for them they thought I was crackers.

[SamwizeGamgee]

I'll hug you back.
It took 17 years of marriage before I got off the crazy blame train and realized, after reading a book about marriage and intimacy, that I was most likely a normal healthy male (at least after peeling away the layers of damage done in marriage).  That idea has gone from snowball to avalanche.

[Red5]

When you accept and embrace the worst outcome you become invincible.   

Bingo Enabler... .and I say again, BINGO!

... .to borrow a famous quote from one our most beloved Marine Corps Generals; Lewis Burwell "Chesty" Puller,

"We are surrounded, that simplifies our problem",  !

I like what Sam has written; "I got off the crazy blame train and realized, .that I was most likely a normal healthy male, .that idea has gone from snowball to avalanche."

I remember ALL the times my u/BPDw said to me, "I'm done" and threatened divorce, ."I want a divorce she'd say", .after about the fifteenth time, .it did lose its effect on me, .she still pulls that out some times, and I am like "what ever"... .followed by, "let your conscience be your guide"... .

Yeah, once you "embrace" the worst case, then its not a real threat anymore, ."come what may", .so they say.

I have already done the nasty, heart wrenching divorce thing, with ex-w#1... .and I recovered nicely, albeit I jumped back in much too quickly, and was completely ignorant of any thing such as BPD/npd et' all... .

And u/BPDw was also previously married, and also for a very long time, twenty+ for both of us... .so to actually have a divorce come to fruition, .my inner "flight-fight-freeze-fawn" mechanism is like... .divorce, ok, whatever, we been through that before... ."so what's for supper" !

Red5