The return of Medusa

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So I knew this would happen eventually.

Heres the trailer to the new sequel

she came on the same bus as me, not sure if she had seen me but she was glued to her phone and sat near.

At first I didnt recognise her, she is ageing fast and it was only 9 months, (drugs and alcohol not good for the skin) the magnetism wasnt there like the previous recycle. she was still wearing my hoody!

I felt confident and just went and sat right next to her, obviously she was slightly nervous but I kept the conversation very neutral. I took the opportunity to let her know how well my life is going and as I was pressured to get off at the next stop I told her im sorry I ghosted her like that, (rubbing it in and making it obvious that I had, in fact, intentionally ignored her) she mirrored and said "its fine, Ive done that to people too". (yep, now you know how it feels like!)

 I made the exigent decision to offer her my phone number as my stop was coming up quick and she accepted it. I know that its easy enough for me to just change sim card again, but I took the opportunity to re-establish contact with ze enemy. I never made any more attempt to get hooked in by making promises to meet up or anything of the sort, I never showed any interest.

It was also very helpful to overcome the fear that I had about what would happen when this day came, I knew it would, and those feelings I had in the previous encounter just werent there. no infactuation, no magnetism. She seemed completely caught off guard and didnt have a chance to prepare her stage-act, which tells me she wasnt stalking me like the previous time, I can only imagine what must have been processing through her mind, when I left she was glued back to her phone but I could see the tension in her face. That person I was so fearful of for all those years looked dejected and pitiful, it was good to see.

I told her I wont be able to see her that much because im very busy, like I said, this may or may not be opening a can of worms again. but whats done is done, im not the same person she met and I wont be intimidated by anyone in the city I grew up in. All I can say is, I failed my no contact resolution, but it was exigent circumstances. She will always be regarded as an enemy, but its the old saying "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer".

Im really happy that this happened and it didnt provoke the emotional response in me that I expected it might, i saw her in a different light than during the r/s, she probably picked up on this, I felt in control but I also felt no spark. I hope at the very least I will have ruined her day by showing her how well im doing and my blatant assertiveness. She didnt manage to grind me down as she had hoped. Whoever she had triangulated with against me cant be treating her that well, she looked withdrawn and dishevelled. it was the first time since knowing her that we parted without a kiss, and regardless of the fact that it wouldnt have really been appropiate, I could sense she was waiting for it almost like a ritual, I cant believe I wasted so much of my energy on Medusa or what I had got myself into such a headspin about.

have I therefore, actually detached by virtue of re-engaging her? Id say that I needed to do this as a step towards closure. Ghosting her like I did was fine to get the space but it still left residual fears and worry. Complete detachment is getting closer by confronting her and seeing Medusa in a new perspective than what I had previously. Im also glad there was no anger, there were times I felt if I would see her it would provoke a great deal of inner rage and I wouldnt care if it happened on a bus full of passengers or not, the anger wasnt there. So its all proof to me how much more a confident person ive become since time to heal on these boards.

watch this space.

[Cromwell]

So I knew this would happen eventually.

Heres the trailer to the new sequel

she came on the same bus as me, not sure if she had seen me but she was glued to her phone and sat near.

At first I didnt recognise her, she is ageing fast and it was only 9 months, (drugs and alcohol not good for the skin) the magnetism wasnt there like the previous recycle. she was still wearing my hoody!

I felt confident and just went and sat right next to her, obviously she was slightly nervous but I kept the conversation very neutral. I took the opportunity to let her know how well my life is going and as I was pressured to get off at the next stop I told her im sorry I ghosted her like that, (rubbing it in and making it obvious that I had, in fact, intentionally ignored her) she mirrored and said "its fine, Ive done that to people too". (yep, now you know how it feels like!)

 I made the exigent decision to offer her my phone number as my stop was coming up quick and she accepted it. I know that its easy enough for me to just change sim card again, but I took the opportunity to re-establish contact with ze enemy. I never made any more attempt to get hooked in by making promises to meet up or anything of the sort, I never showed any interest.

It was also very helpful to overcome the fear that I had about what would happen when this day came, I knew it would, and those feelings I had in the previous encounter just werent there. no infactuation, no magnetism. She seemed completely caught off guard and didnt have a chance to prepare her stage-act, which tells me she wasnt stalking me like the previous time, I can only imagine what must have been processing through her mind, when I left she was glued back to her phone but I could see the tension in her face. That person I was so fearful of for all those years looked dejected and pitiful, it was good to see.

I told her I wont be able to see her that much because im very busy, like I said, this may or may not be opening a can of worms again. but whats done is done, im not the same person she met and I wont be intimidated by anyone in the city I grew up in. All I can say is, I failed my no contact resolution, but it was exigent circumstances. She will always be regarded as an enemy, but its the old saying "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer".

Im really happy that this happened and it didnt provoke the emotional response in me that I expected it might, i saw her in a different light than during the r/s, she probably picked up on this, I felt in control but I also felt no spark. I hope at the very least I will have ruined her day by showing her how well im doing and my blatant assertiveness. She didnt manage to grind me down as she had hoped. Whoever she had triangulated with against me cant be treating her that well, she looked withdrawn and dishevelled. it was the first time since knowing her that we parted without a kiss, and regardless of the fact that it wouldnt have really been appropiate, I could sense she was waiting for it almost like a ritual, I cant believe I wasted so much of my energy on Medusa or what I had got myself into such a headspin about.

have I therefore, actually detached by virtue of re-engaging her? Id say that I needed to do this as a step towards closure. Ghosting her like I did was fine to get the space but it still left residual fears and worry. Complete detachment is getting closer by confronting her and seeing Medusa in a new perspective than what I had previously. Im also glad there was no anger, there were times I felt if I would see her it would provoke a great deal of inner rage and I wouldnt care if it happened on a bus full of passengers or not, the anger wasnt there. So its all proof to me how much more a confident person ive become since time to heal on these boards.

watch this space.

[Wicker Man]

Perseus without a mirror!  Yep -you said this would happen... .small town. 

At first I didnt recognise her, she is ageing fast and it was only 9 months, (drugs and alcohol not good for the skin) the magnetism wasnt there like the previous recycle. she was still wearing my hoody!

You just lived my worst nightmare -I am only 4 months gone, but the idea of seeing my ex ruined scars me.  It is that pride thing all over again -I tried to lift her up and along with my heart, I have come to learn through our discussion my pride was hurt too.  I was not enough.

I made the exigent decision to offer her my phone number as my stop was coming up quick and she accepted it.

I see your angle here, but I feel it is my job to play devils advocate.  Cui Bono?  How does this really benefit you?

It was also very helpful to overcome the fear

A bit of fear is healthy -you don't need to stick your hand in a flame to remember it can burn you.   Of course you know best, but having temptation at hand?  Why buy a pack of cigarettes and have them on the mantel when you have quit smoking? i.e. giving her your phone number.

That person I was so fearful of for all those years looked dejected and pitiful, it was good to see.

My favorite manner of revenge is reflected in the Fountainhead.   Dominique Keating has destroyed Howard Roark's career.

"Mr. Roark, we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me? In any words you wish. No one will hear us."

"But I don't think of you."

The way I deal with 'revenge' is to put no energy or thought into a person whatsoever.  Hating someone shows a level of care -I literally have no enemies, I want to neither waste the time nor the energy to do so.  I will one day no longer think about or care what happens to my ex.  I will ultimately wreak the most terrible and damning revenge on her of simply moving on with my life.

"keep your friends close and your enemies even closer".

The guy who said this is dead -and never dated a stalker... .

Im really happy that this happened and it didnt provoke the emotional response in me that I expected it might

I am happy for you and you should be proud of yourself.  You have come a long way!

I saw her in a different light than during the r/s, she probably picked up on this

Stop caring what she thinks!  It is a trap -that way lies madness and you know it.

have I therefore, actually detached by virtue of re-engaging her?

Be carful this sounds like justification --thin ice in my opinion. 

Id say that I needed to do this as a step towards closure.

What have we read here about trying to get closure with people suffering from BPD?  From what I experienced first hand my BPD ex interpret and respond to our relationship in a very different manner than people without the disorder might have.  What may have felt like closure to you may very well be an invitation to her.  The next time you see her she could be mirroring you again -as you said you caught her off balance.  Do you need to pit yourself on a full broadside salvo from her?

Please don't misunderstand me.  I am happy for you, but Perseus keep your mirror handy and your sword sharp.  You may be playing with fire -I had not planned to post much today but your new thread, frankly, concerned me.

Something about exhumed and beheaded... .


Wicker Man

[Wicker Man]

I am not done... .

What would you have written to me if I ran into ':)ream Come True' -yes that is the literal translation of her name, and I gave her my phone number?


Please please take care.


Wicker Man

[Cromwell]

 If she contacts I will ignore until ive got myself in a clearer state of mind, so far theres nothing done that cant be undone or learned from. im already (not just from your posts) but feeling unsettled by my choice, I suppose the action had plus and negative, I think I was gloating too much and thats what she picked up on, I couldnt resist it, which is to do with my own impulsiveness, I can be very sarcastic but in a way that it cant be taken as obvious. i am very grateful to have your wisdom and overview, I couldnt resist to show her up, I would have felt i sent the wrong message by having to leave the bus as a sign of weakness, as if I was afraid of her, but actually, maybe it would have been the opposite. OR as you suggest, I could have surpassed all that and not even cared what she thought. I guess I slipped up. Oh well, will sleep on this and contemplate it all better myself tomorrow, going to watch some tv and zone out for awhile, thanks for the debrief of the encounter, its interesting the entire time I didnt stare into her eyes, I think that helped and she probably realised I was avoiding the hypnotism.

[lighthouse9]

Take care of yourself Cromwell - Wickerman did a great job reflecting some of your encounter back to you and you're doing an excellent job being reflective about it.

I bet this experience brought up conflicting emotions in you and it sounds like you're sitting with some unsettling stuff now. That makes total sense and I bet a lot of us would be in the same boat.

Good idea to zone out for a bit and distract yourself. There's not much to be done about the encounter now and you have no idea if she will contact or not. It sounds like you know what to expect from her if she does and you know that you want to protect yourself from that. Here's to wishing strength in your corner.

-L

[Wicker Man]

What do you do in a destructive harmonic?   Add no energy

I will write more tomorrow. 

Please take some time and re-read what you have written to me.  Read the advice you gave to a man you do not know. 

You cannot know this enemy as she does not know herself -but in an uncanny way she may know you better than you know yourself.  She does not want to win the battle -she simply wants to join the Frey.  The battle is the victory condition for her. 

[Cromwell]

Well she texted, (the hook) and it was to give me her number and hoping im doing well. So I just responded along the same lines, (mirrored).

Will see how it goes, this could be an excellent opportunity to conduct qualitative research that will benefit others. I will keep this going in pursuit of science, I did think of just having one last time sex with her then ghosting her, but for some reason like I said, the revenge feelings arent  anymore for some reason, probably by being on this board and learning in this interlude that she is a victim of her disorder and I dont take it as personal as I once did.

the only thing that is a bit annoying is having to play this WOE shells game, it took me 5minutes to make a basic response to her text due to weighing up what to say and how to say it. she will know from her phone that her text was recieved and read by me and will have taken that into account. Im not going to play this game, she needs me and im not going to pussyfoot around, there will never be a r/s beyond what she thinks at the moment is reconciling as "friends". She can provide me with valuable research about her condition so I can further heal and perhaps provide more insight to others via this experience. I will play a long as a 'friend' which is the term she has used in her text. so far she is pouring golden words in my ear like the start of the other 2 honeymoon periods, good so far. The timer starts today, im going to chronograph and take comprehensive notes, I was never interested in psychology before but this investigative psychology is quite interesting. I spend a lot of time on these boards talking about her anyway, may as well have have her for new material. there will be some gold left to dig up and its my intention to extract as much value as possible.

Wicker man, perhaps this was supposed to happen and will benefit the understanding, she can at least provide that and as a byproduct will do some good. i wont let her put me in any compromising situations, what would be helpful is to search for answers beyond the written literature. There is only so much value can be got from the great texts, or literary masterpieces, im aiming for a synthesis between this and more experiential data. I did find something that resembled closure, but I think this happened for a reason, a proper conclusion, I need this to mop up the last droplets of residual emotion.

I think the encounter probably reawoken her from the object permeance. I still "exist" and she had to confront this., accept this, and probably had to evaluate the fact we shared 3 years together. The fact that she has - at least on the surface - reengaged after my NC ghosting, tells me that she must feel some sort of guilt to have provoked that. The way I see it is anyone I was ever in a r/s with prior would have told me to go away. they wouldnt be wearing my clothes either.

for now shes being respectful and cordial, either way im not emotionally attached like I was before and if she disappears or acts up again, time will tell, it wont affect me, and will also be interesting to observe for me at least. i see it as a slow chess game, nothing more nothing less, I dont watch tv anymore or pre packaged entertainment for the masses, this is more exciting and interesting. Wicker man, those who play with fire get an emotional release from watching the flames. There is a pyromaniac in every firefighter, but they are trained well and I feel competent in what im doing. theres never going to be a r/s so theres not much risk of what she can do. in all likelihood its probably going to be quite stale and boring, its partly my chance to show her the "new" me, and differentiate myself from all the others. If she loses interest it is because she realises in the battle of wits she was the one unarmed. She was always gloating at how she managed to out-fox all the guys in her previous r/s as a way of bolstering her low self esteem, if this is her intent (and I know that by going NC I 'won' that round) she probably wants to settle the score, that is a strong possibility, but I am curious as to what she really is up to as opposed to just assuming ulterior motives. The only compliment I ever got from her, during her anger moment was "your really smart". I think this was a point of frustration for her, her perception that I was too smart to be controlled. It did seem in contrast to her previous r/s she selected far less astute partners. The only leverage she had with me is meeting me at a time where my chemical interest over rode my senses. Im not in that state whatsoever anymore, its a different playing field.

I will text her tomorrow, what do you think? but non emotional commital, I have the feeling she might want to ghost me, but only after invoking some sort of emotional attachment, i.e fawning over her. I will keep it bland, dry and sterile. If this really is her immature hidden agenda at getting the score to 1:1, then so be it, the worst that will happen is she will move away feeling superior and the ego restored. This is actually to my advantage, a win-win situation, she wont feel resentment and grudges (which for some strange reason I care about) and I will be completely free of her. The reason I think she texted was the feeling if she would have hesitated for too long, I might use that to wriggle away, she was striking when the iron was still hot (or so she believes)

lets see how it plays out.

Pawn to B4  

[Wicker Man]

In all likelihood its probably going to be quite stale and boring, its partly my chance to show her the "new" me, and differentiate myself from all the others. If she loses interest it is because she realises in the battle of wits she was the one unarmed. She was always gloating at how she managed to out-fox all the guys in her previous r/s as a way of bolstering her low self esteem, if this is her intent (and I know that by going NC I 'won' that round) she probably wants to settle the score, that is a strong possibility, but I am curious as to what she really is up to as opposed to just assuming ulterior motives.

Ok... .  'In all likelihood' which implies you are not sure it will be stale and boring. 

There is an old Chinese saying about a man who wished to see a dragon -one day a dragon appeared and the old man died of fright.  Do not wish for dragons... .

Why do you value her opinion of you?  She was a woman who you gave the name of a monster. One of the gorgons -in fact Medusa means 'The ruling one'.  I mentioned Perseus in the context of remembering the danger a single glance could bring.  Now you are talking about not only setting down the mirror, but opening a dialogue.

Further... .she is a woman whom you did not trust, she made you feel ill at ease and literally hacked your phone.  She showed herself to be a clear and present danger.  Unlike ':)ream come True' yours showed intent. She was not a leaf blown in the wind -this is someone who did you harm and knew what she was doing.

I can tell you in all certainty you are a one in a million human being -of course you were the best man she ever met and likely ever will.  So call this a win and go on being the best you can be in a life without her.  --Why spend time with someone who is not your equal?

In you previous statement you said she 'out-foxed' all of her previous boyfriends --but not you... .  It seems to me you are giving her the chance at a re-do to complete her perfect batting average -If she does actually have malicious intent imagine her motivation for revenge at this point?

Going NC in my case was a commitment to DEFCON 5.  Negotiations are done the war was declared and ended in a single swift, decisive and lethal stroke. 

"There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited". --Sun Tzu

I understand the intellectual curiosity -believe me I have a many, now irrelevant, questions about what ':)ream Come True' was really like -but they are irrelevant -pointless -dangerous to both of us. Caring about these questions simply means I am not done healing.  ':)ream Come True' cannot help me heal and I know better than to ask her to help -my healing must come from within.

The only compliment I ever got from her, during her anger moment was "your really smart".

You are really smart! (ok... .I have to point out the irony of using 'your' instead of 'you're'... .  but I am a smartass)  When I reply to your posts I have to use every bit of my knowledge base, I throw every once of my being into my replies an attempt to stay on par with you.  Hanging on tight in order to not be thrown to the wolves. 

Why would you seek validation from someone who can't understand you?  If she is anything like ':)ream Come True' she doesn't know herself -how could she ever hope to know you?

The only leverage she had with me is meeting me at a time where my chemical interest over rode my senses. Im not in that state whatsoever anymore, its a different playing field.

My dance with BPD hit me so hard the foundation of my very being shuddered and cracked.  I lost all sense of right and wrong, I was able to indulge in a fantasy with a staggering cost --and I didn't care.  I style myself as being a thoughtful man and in control.  Hell! manipulation is my job -I have shot over 600 TV commercials and even a couple of propaganda movies for the Chinese government, I lie professionally and yet I was drawn in and blinded myself --fairytale love.  If you open communication with her in a moment of weakness the dance could begin again.  --You could find yourself tired, lonely, drunk, bored a misstep would be so easy with her in your life.

I will text her tomorrow, what do you think?

With all due respect you already know what I think --I think you are making a mistake.

lets see how it plays out.

Once again why?  In my opinion one must always consider the source in life.  If someone I do not respect gives me a compliment I am untouched -when someone I do not respect criticizes me or shows disrespect toward me I am equally untouched.

Pawn to B4

Yes... Yes... .Knights Pawn to Queen's knights 4.  You were her 'Knight in shining armor' and she was your 'Queen' --walk away.  Was your choice of B4 an accident dear Perseus? 

I am manipulative.  I learned it from my mother who was subtle surgical in her manipulation.  If need be I can control a conversation through empathy, cold reading, probability, stimulus and response to guide it with 'unseen hands'... .Just like a game of chess. --I choose not to it is taxing and Machiavellian --Weaponized dialogue is a tool and one I try to not be forced to utilize.  Just like a gun -I try not to put myself in a situation where it is needed.



Wicker Man

[Cromwell]

Theres not much for me to say except, thanks for taking the time to take my head out the clouds.

Das Boot is one of my BPD films, do you recall the ending scene? I dont want my voyage to end the same way.

keeping her at arms length is back to periscope depth. you are right, this is retaliation time, she hasnt forgiven me for what I did and maybe this time I wont be so smart as to avoid the depth charges.

after all ive been through and achieved, I need more self respect than to play along with this. this isnt 'winning' it is a convoluted mess of emotions resulting from not achieving the conclusion that suits me. but i think i finally found it, the conclusion or final act of the medusa stage play is, Perseus changes his sim card - again.

it might actually be the outcome I needed, I saw her again, there was no display of anger or hatred, there was a brief re-engagement but no commital. theres no shame on either side if I crash dive and re-rig for silent running.

even though i dont think reaching the safe harbour of indifference is attainable, I will in time learn to live with that. NC again, envious of your 4 month head start wicker man. fair play 

note to self : public transport sucks

[Wicker Man]

From the movie War Games "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"

My heart aches for you.  I know precisely the temptation.  To tell you the truth --I drove past my freeway exit after reading about your considering opening a continued line of communication.  I could relate so utterly with the temptation I was playing the scenarios through in my mind and missed the turn off to my home. --codependent people pleaser to the end I suppose.

If I (God forbid) run into Dream Come True somewhere I would be cordial and bring the encounter to as quick a conclusion as decorum might demand. 

Cromwell --I hate the image of what this beautiful person's life will become.  I do not want to bare witness.  Her next boyfriend will likely beat her -as the last one did, she will likely begin drinking again, this will likely end in her being raped.  The only time I yelled at her was when she put herself into a MeToo situation with a producer who is a known rapist.  -I now believe she was thrill seeking and liked the charge the attention and danger brought her.

I cannot and will not watch the slow-motion catastrophic demise of a woman I loved so deeply.  She broke me -but there is no solace she can give me now -only further pain.  I have no wish for revenge, as it would offer me no relief. 

I am No Contact out of self preservation and fear.  Not fear for my safety, but for fear of having to watch her step by step fall into darkness.

She sent me a text one morning at 4am from a bar "Remember I am young and beautiful"  Sadly, youth is considered a consumable resource in China.  She will be consumed and replaced.


Wicker Man

P.S. Can't you just block her number rather than having to change SIM's?

P.P.S.  I apologize for writing 'Frey' instead of 'Fray'... .  I wish we could edit after hitting post.

[Skip]

Keep Your Friends Close and Your Enemies Closer?

This quote is from from Machiavelli in "The Prince," the definitive primer for how to be a dictator. I don't think it applies here at all (or at least it shouldn't).

"Exigent decision" is fair. This terminology describes situations in which the decision maker acknowledges that it is imperative to act rather quickly, but in sufficiently complex matters, this denies the decision maker the foresight into the consequences of his or her decision... .this is the concept of exigent decision.

But now that you have had time to reflect, is positioning this in your mind as a social experiment to help others, and/or revenge, and safe, because you can get a new sim card for your phone and turn be safe, sounds like a fairly farfetched and unrealistic rationalization of an exigent decision.

The more realistic outcomes are an apology and reparations for acting badly (i.e, ghosting someone) and/or an attempt at emotional re-connection on some level.

Exigent decision or mot, you know have time to reflect on the complexity of the matter and the possible outcomes... .you want to do that wisely.

Skip

PS: Nix the social experiment, we have hundreds of examples of this narrative already.  

[Cromwell]

There may well be a sociological dimension, a cultural sphere to your situation in addition to the psychological. Not much is discussed here on the sociology behind the generation of BPD, considering it has its roots firmly in a dysfunction of the family unit.

I did worry during the r/s about her constantly, it is what burned me out emotionally.  The statistics are that the higher the insurance coverage the more risky the behaviour on the insured. I often felt that my exs behaviour got worse at times being with me, after all, she could count on being rescued. Are parts of your fears maybe exaggerated? Mines were. If your ex knew that you deeply cared for her, and it is clearly obvious you did, it is likely in my mind she would be tempted to initiate these reckless scenarios and each time wait to see the hero intervene. proving your love each time. this was very much an ongoing theme of the years. Mine found it amusing, in a sort of "girl that cried wolf" way. eventually she fabricated things to suggest she was in danger, just to have me race after her. I did call her out on this and it stopped when she realised I knew she was game playing. the problem is, just like that story, i was always unsettled to know each time whether it was just a game or not. all part of the emotional unsettlement grind down each day.

The brief conversation with my ex yesterday revealed that she had actually stuck out a job now for over a year. if it is true then from how she was before I met her and during the r/s it is a huge accomplishment - perhaps me leaving forced her to become more resourceful and independent, it was part of the impression (although she could well have been window dressing) that she had stabilised to a great extent and matured. again, all guesswork and diverting from the purpose of being here,  im now focusing on my ex all over again when I was just starting to enjoy some peace. maybe this was supposed to happen or at least serves a purpose of showing what can happen. Im just lucky to have the support here which I didnt have before, your dialogue has not fallen on deaf ears it has strengthened my resolve to pick up where I started and I sincerely thank you for that. I wont change sim card, lets wait and see what the next move is, she probably got some relief by testing the waters (again, trying to rationalise the behaviour of a person living with psychosis), its back to square one again. but, regardless, we might learn something here, im interested in when and what the next move is.

you know its the same concept behind why millions tune in to the soap operas, after 30minutes you are left with the story not being fully completed and there is this deep psychological compulsion to tune in the next time to see the conclusion, only for the new story to end half way. its the same with this, and why I dont watch soap operas i was addicted to them too, with my ex, No Contact was the only way to break free .

No need for the apology on the spelling etc, there is a great deal of emotional fatigue in all of this, this is real work even if it might not appear as such. i get a lot of emotional 'transference' from posts i read here that resonate with me and have needed a break from it all. keeping up with the drama that my ex would generate was like sprinting a marathon. this brief re-encounter has been more unsettling than I thought at first. im going to take a short break and regain some endurance, got exams this week and not letting her throw a spanner in the works. before i do just want you to know that by worrying about her doesnt change anything in a practical way, it is just causing distress. if you think about it that way, it doesnt make any logical sense. if you committed yourself to saving her, then it would make sense but you went NC and decided to not participate. These are the loose ends that I also need to work on, particularly when it seemed I worried a lot for nothing (medusa is doing fine) and even if she wasnt, by being NC i wouldnt know if she wasnt, its part of the protective power of it. ignorance is bliss.

[Wicker Man]

just to reiterate... .

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.


Best of luck on your exams. 

[Shawnlam]

Good evening crom, I was about to type a huge response almost begging you to not text her but it seems between the others posting you thankfully changed your mind.DO NOT do that fatal mistake I did ,it will lead to ground hog day the movie over and over again.I have come to terms it’s over and haven’t texted or spoke to her in awhile and I’m feeling pretty good.I stopped drinking,I have no intention of speaking to her or going to meet her for breakfast and frankly I’m going to avoid her 100%. I have stopped researching why people with BPD are the way they are,and why they do things they do,and I also stopped trying to figure out why I fell into that relationship or tolerated it for so long.At this point it no longer matters to me .I wish her no ill will and hope she goes through life as happy as she can possibly be with her two sons .I have zero will to change her,help her,control her,save her, she isn’t my responsibility and never was.

I managed to change in a short time and find my old self prior to this past relationship.Back to weightlifting,jogging, boxing courses, motorcycling,yard work and reading ( not on BPD).Ive also started eating better again and spend more time outside the house than inside.All in all I’m back to looking after myself,a better way to heal.

I still have feelings for her ,but reviewing the memory tapes and trying to figure out what I could have done to prolong the relationship was pointless at this point.It would be the equivalent of reviewing the black box footage in hopes of saving the already dead passengers... .a pointless endless emotional whirlwind with nothing positive to gain.With that said thank god you didn’t text her ,and please do everything in your power to resist her calls to you.Researching BPD by experimenting with her is a bad idea really bad,this forum has enough material trust me ,don’t do that to yourself it will drain you and it’s unfair to her to... .she isn’t well and honestly like my exGF ,leaving them alone is probably the best thing for them and us.

Hope this helps ,Stay strong brother

[Wicker Man]

Cromwell,

As you take to your studies I wished to thank you for giving me the most precious of gifts —your time.  

[Cromwell]

Good evening crom, I was about to type a huge response almost begging you to not text her but it seems between the others posting you thankfully changed your mind.DO NOT do that fatal mistake I did ,it will lead to ground hog day the movie over and over again.I have come to terms it’s over and haven’t texted or spoke to her in awhile and I’m feeling pretty good.I stopped drinking,I have no intention of speaking to her or going to meet her for breakfast and frankly I’m going to avoid her 100%. I have stopped researching why people with BPD are the way they are,and why they do things they do,and I also stopped trying to figure out why I fell into that relationship or tolerated it for so long.At this point it no longer matters to me .I wish her no ill will and hope she goes through life as happy as she can possibly be with her two sons .I have zero will to change her,help her,control her,save her, she isn’t my responsibility and never was.

I managed to change in a short time and find my old self prior to this past relationship.Back to weightlifting,jogging, boxing courses, motorcycling,yard work and reading ( not on BPD).Ive also started eating better again and spend more time outside the house than inside.All in all I’m back to looking after myself,a better way to heal.

I still have feelings for her ,but reviewing the memory tapes and trying to figure out what I could have done to prolong the relationship was pointless at this point.It would be the equivalent of reviewing the black box footage in hopes of saving the already dead passengers... .a pointless endless emotional whirlwind with nothing positive to gain.With that said thank god you didn’t text her ,and please do everything in your power to resist her calls to you.Researching BPD by experimenting with her is a bad idea really bad,this forum has enough material trust me ,don’t do that to yourself it will drain you and it’s unfair to her to... .she isn’t well and honestly like my exGF ,leaving them alone is probably the best thing for them and us.

Hope this helps ,Stay strong brother

Thanks Shawnlam,

I havent blocked her, I had replied to her first text where she gave me her number, but it is only short, not emotive standardised replies, the type more suited to a business transaction.  she texted again today. I havent replied to this one, it is sweet talk designed to get me primed again. Her replacement facing jail might have a lot to do with all this renewed interest. Shawnlam, like yourself, I was too busy, the bait was thrown that by now I would be with her, have had sex and be spending the next few days listening to her innane drivel, slumped in a corner from  the drug comedown. The circuits lit up in my head when I got the text, because they remembered the pattern, I diverted it, went to town and bought myself an expensive textbook instead. She cant seduce or turn me on anymore, and its good that ive had the reengagement and feel that way. I also feel great to have her in my phonebook as medusa, and each little hook she casts and thinks will work, I can imagine her sour dejected face, instead of the thrill of feeling that she is outwitting someone, playing with their emotions and getting the attention that her parents never gave.

Im programming myself to see her as a bore, and this re-engagement is all going to be about my needs. it is the converse of what the r/s was, and I want her to know that. She will have to work a whole lot harder for her food. "i aswas feeling really low yesterday". my thoughts are "sucks to be you I guess, what has that got to do with me? in any case, I dont even know if that is true, you speak with the forked tongue, so why waste my time responding with a "so sorry to hear that" platitude, that you can laugh your ass of about.

Im never going to get roped in again, if anything, her lack of shame in re-engaging me after all that happened speaks volumes about her character. It has been good for me to witness and confirms I was right in detaching. It has helped to recognise that the spark isnt there, rather than to theorise that it isnt. Her texts are designed that I would already be now meeting her, having sex, going through the same old groundhog day (as you state) motions. There was a time that like pavlovs dogs I would have salivated for that, those times are gone, and I feel a far better person for it.

I also like how the revenge feelings, the anger, the negative energy that surrounds her I redirect, a bit like Judo, and channel into my own life. Im not going to block her, my intention is to only reply to direct questions in a bland, boring, indifferent but corteous way and leave a few hours to do so. It will be more punishment than NC, shows her that I exist (Forget me not) but im not a viable food supply. Each time I sidestep her traps I feel better about myself, its not about punishment so much as to conclude the story of showing myself that I finally adapted and overcame it. (The BPD experience programme).

So happy for you Shawnlam, I remember when you first came here, its not the easiest of fog to get out, but you managed it.

[Cromwell]

Keep Your Friends Close and Your Enemies Closer?

This quote is from from Machiavelli in "The Prince," the definitive primer for how to be a dictator. I don't think it applies here at all (or at least it shouldn't).

"Exigent decision" is fair. This terminology describes situations in which the decision maker acknowledges that it is imperative to act rather quickly, but in sufficiently complex matters, this denies the decision maker the foresight into the consequences of his or her decision... .this is the concept of exigent decision.

But now that you have had time to reflect, is positioning this in your mind as a social experiment to help others, and/or revenge, and safe, because you can get a new sim card for your phone and turn be safe, sounds like a fairly farfetched and unrealistic rationalization of an exigent decision.

The more realistic outcomes are an apology and reparations for acting badly (i.e, ghosting someone) and/or an attempt at emotional re-connection on some level.

Exigent decision or mot, you know have time to reflect on the complexity of the matter and the possible outcomes... .you want to do that wisely.

Skip

PS: Nix the social experiment, we have hundreds of examples of this narrative already.  

Sometimes you have to use the same tactics against those that deploy them. I havent fully read that book but just because one quote from a person, based on their background, is not sufficient to devalue the quote itself. Even dictators have 'good points' of value, cant just paint black. But I do feel that it is a poor excuse for keeping contact, especially as the antics had disappeared during the no contact to the point of her not apparently being much of a threat anymore.

At least I dont. Yet overall, I agree with your opinion, I reacted impulsively on reflection for reasons I havent yet even figured out. Probably curiosity to finally come face to face again with the person who has consumed a great deal of my emotions, even negatively. I will take your advice and reflect more about it, thank you.

[Skip]

I havent fully read that book but just because one quote from a person, based on their background, is not sufficient to devalue the quote itself. Even dictators have 'good points' of value, cant just paint black.

The Prince is a 16th century political treatise that has been studied by scholars for hundreds of years. I was not devaluing the quote or the author or the work, I was suggesting that its meaning doesn't apply to our situation's here. 

[Cromwell]

Cromwell,

As you take to your studies I wished to thank you for giving me the most precious of gifts —your time.  

its a zero sum game my friend, sharing knowledge, no one losses out. The wisdom and camaraderie from yourself and others here, I dont know where I would be without it.

You have great wit and a sense of humour, its not that I have managed to dehumanise Medusa by the comparison, but when I see her behaviour and can associate her behaviour and mines as more like cartoon sketch, it takes away the vileness out of it and along with it, the negative energy, the bitterness anger even hatred at times.

I like how you show compassion to your ex, it has inspired me to try to consider the same. I dont believe in giving comfort to the enemy, but at the same time, ive readjusted my mindset as to how much value I place in what she did. she was the enzyme, but I connected each time. She guided me towards debasing myself, eroding of self esteem, but  

My goal is to finally detach, and that means psychic healing as well as the practical ways i have achieved, and youve went a long way in helping me towards this. Nietsche would be calling me the silly little untermensch, for allowing myself to be treated this way. So no more Nietsche please, thats all I ask!    

nothing more makes me feel better than if i hear people have at least got marginally "better", I hope this has been the case for you. From where I started, it was from a stage of near incapacitance mentally, to finally building up resistance, then almost relearning how to walk again. Each day was slightly, if not tangibly, better than the day before to the point where I almost feel a stronger person than when I even entered the r/s in the first place. Its why I say that meeting her has been more of a gift than a detriment and I can safely say that the "I will destroy you" prophecy will never materialise, your better then that and know it. Just as I will never be "together, forever". These were whimsical notions of ill people that at the time we attributed too much meaning towards. You did well to take it seriously, often these statements are used to alleviate guilt for future behaviours where they can say "well, I did tell you so". but enough amateur psychoanalysis, i can at best just say how i feel based on what I went through, ive got some experience and deliver it unfiltered, unrefined, tactless to the point of being seen as blunt. For some people, it helps, others I need to learn to modify it, im glad my style resonates with you and you can use what you can on your own journey towards self recovery. I thought it would work with my r/s, maybe you did too, but mines had a different concept, more quid-pro-quo. its why she is my "ex", and will never be more than just that.

have an amazing day. (if you did the 4am declaration ritual I am assured you will have had already).  

[once removed]

Sometimes you have to use the same tactics against those that deploy them.

what tactics is she deploying?

[Pretty Woman]

Cromwell,
    Question? Why do you want to play a game with someone who is sick? Revenge?
I will tell you this... .the BPD will always win. BPD’s are survivors, you can get revenge on them all you want and they will just find someone else to cling to.

There was a time I could relate to how you are feeling. I wanted to get back at her for all the hurt she caused me. I almost lost my job, I lost a lot of money... .I was slandered all over the place.

I wanted her to pay.

What changed my mind? Her life sucks. It’s a dead end. She repeats the same relationship over and over with different people. She never resolves issues or the end of a relationship, she just jumps into another one and each time everything compounds over and over again.

She will never be happy.

You sound like a guy that has his stuff together in life. Why not find a healthy, mentally sane woman to have sex with and let your ex be.  Find compassion. You can have a great life and are capable. She likely never will without a ton of therapy.  

Best of luck to you!
PW

[Wicker Man]

Nietsche would be calling me the silly little untermensch, for allowing myself to be treated this way. So no more Nietsche please, thats all I ask!

Well... .The super man -the thinking feeling man inevitably seemed to alway perish in the German expressionist stories --So Übermensch doesn't fare much better -but I will refrain from further quoting Nietzsche... .

In fact my therapist suggested I read more Nietzsche -I told him I am too polarized as it is and should refrain.  So now I am trying to wade through Lacan -OMFG... .  In life watch what you ask for... . 

After she said "You must leave me -I will destroy you" I asked her over and over what she meant and she would never speak of it again -I take this to mean she always knew the truth of the statement.

As I have said, I lament the loss of the dream -she was the catalyst of my fantasy.  Coming back down to Earth will take some time.

I am happy for you in your journey.  Keep the shiny side up!


Wicker Man

[Cromwell]

what tactics is she deploying?

none at the moment besides using the same phraseology she had in the height of the honeymoon era, shes trying to trigger me with the pet names and the sweet talk that always worked. At the same time, the same old silly lies interspersed in her texts. Shes trying to basically recontinue where we left off, as if nothing ever happened in between. telling me how bad she feels, to prompt me to rescue her. Fair enough shes probably just behaving in the way she thinks I want to or that used to work. its part of why I like being back in contact, to show her - and prove more importantly to myself - that it doesnt work.

[Cromwell]

Cromwell,
    Question? Why do you want to play a game with someone who is sick? Revenge?
I will tell you this... .the BPD will always win. BPD’s are survivors, you can get revenge on them all you want and they will just find someone else to cling to.

There was a time I could relate to how you are feeling. I wanted to get back at her for all the hurt she caused me. I almost lost my job, I lost a lot of money... .I was slandered all over the place.

I wanted her to pay.

What changed my mind? Her life sucks. It’s a dead end. She repeats the same relationship over and over with different people. She never resolves issues or the end of a relationship, she just jumps into another one and each time everything compounds over and over again.

She will never be happy.

You sound like a guy that has his stuff together in life. Why not find a healthy, mentally sane woman to have sex with and let your ex be.  Find compassion. You can have a great life and are capable. She likely never will without a ton of therapy.  

Best of luck to you!
PW

im having trouble finding closure, revenge seems like one option to achieve that.

she wants to meet up, in an ideal world I could sit and have a coffee and tell her everything how I felt and how her behaviour has affected me, be open and honest, even if she could just listen to it and not contribute, but that is the frustration, I know that it wouldnt achieve anything positive, she would just lie like she always did when I tried this and worst, part of me feels she enjoys it in a sadistic way, I got that impression twice before. She then later used it against me to hurt me more, in the midst of her verbal attacks. You are right of course, just to move on, I think I will I just need to accept that there will never be the type of closure that i wanted, its difficult to have this person orbiting around, had stalked me so much and not feel can just get on with normal life. I will though, and thanks for your insight.

[Shawnlam]

Cromwell , the unfortunate truth behind BPD is the lack of closure but it all depends on how you see it.I to used to want closure as seen in my past posts ,texting her,wanting to go to breakfast etc ... But honestly why? I’d be leading on and playing with the emotions of someone highly unstable emotionally causing her harm.Then in return not surprisingly she would hurt me as revenge hence starting a vicious circle of pure chaos.Why?

I think we all kinda got the best closure one can ask for to be honest ... .we got a definition or label to what our partners had? How many guys in normal relationships get the boot by a normal woman with zero  excuses ?plenty! And they get no definition for that behavior just a goodbye .I fore one know now why this happened to my relationship both her issues and mine ,tada done .Do I want to accept it ? No choice anyways so yes .Doesnt mean I love her any less today if anything maybe a bit more knowing she isn’t well.But I can’t and won’t stand in front of the tunnel again hoping what I’m seeing is a light knowing damn well it’s a train coming... .and to a certain extent I’d you love(d) her don’t you kinda owe it to her to stop? Let her suffer with herself ,why add more gas to the fire?

I’m on your side as a victim Cromwell trust me but maybe if we take the high road and just show some compassion for them you will feel better about where you stand .? Just a though brother take care

[Skip]

revenge seems like one option to achieve that.

I think the ghosting did enough damage... .that is pretty potent stuff... .you freaked her out.

... .in an ideal world I could sit and have a coffee and tell her everything how I felt and how her behaviour has affected me

I don't know this "ideal world". When couples break up, there is not a lot of "let me know help you heal" and "I was wrong"... .in any relationship. We have to heal ourselves. That's why we are here.

she wants to meet up

Most likely, getting closure on the ghosting is high on her list... .as it would be for anyone. You can't fix that anymore than she can fix you. You can only make peace.

Don't make an exigent decision. Open up and talk here.

A mature meet-up would be to apologize and not hit on her. She will probably follow that lead and then you can say, "see ya around", and you both can go off and heal a bit.  Maybe in two weeks or so, you might want to stick your foot in again, or maybe you will feel more committed to move on.

We want to be more mature in the breakup than we were in the relationship. Its the start of a new life for us.

[Skip]

... .Then in return not surprisingly she would hurt me as revenge hence starting a vicious circle of pure chaos... // ... I’m on your side as a victim... .

Shawn, I don't want to hijack, so this might be answered in a new thread, but is your takeaway that from all that happened is that she was strong and vengeful and you were a victim?  I ask, because I think she might be feeling that you were strong and vengeful and she was weak and overwhelmed and being pushed and couldn't handle it all that was facing her.


Curious to hear your thoughts... .I'm not minimizing the humiliation and disrespect that you felt, just asking if it was strength/vengeance or weakness/overwhelmed/bad choices. Just asking the question of predator/victim.

[Cromwell]

Skip

your words have been very soothing for how this has felt today, i think the most important thing is to realise I dont feel obliged to react to anything, there was always this press for urgency and my ex was very fixated on prompt replies to her messages or she would react badly, as well as committing to be punctual. So I often had little chance to think things through before carrying them out. Ive got the luxury now that I have time to reflect before doing things but it didnt properly sink in until you mentioned it that way. The spacing of time for replying to her messages now is unlike anything ive ever been during the r/s, I dont mean it to cause her upset, Im just being cautious and careful. It also solidifies in my mind and I hope hers, that this is not just a "re-continuance" of what was before, that this is not commited r/s that it once was, things have changed. I dont know if that is even something she will likely understand, have the empathy to realise that people change.

Part of me feels guilty, yes she did a lot of very hurtful and reckless things, but I do attribute them all to her disorder, she did try to amend them as best she could and at times I saw feelings of remoarse, guilt and had apologies. The problem is the cycle would recommence and she would often backtrack and make out that those apologies were just staged and used to fool me (which was like adding insult to injury). Its just that I dont know if she said anything she could to hurt, even if it was just lies. It was such a destructive cycle for this reason, I had no choice to NC out of it eventually. My intuition tells me she does suffer genuine regret and shame, its just that it is momentary and short lived. Its just not easy when she keeps burning every bridge, I think she was surprised herself, she often mentioned incredulously how long we had been together as if in disbelief that she had managed.

Im going to try and make my peace with her, I just dont yet know how, but youve helped me the most to make me realise that there is no urgency in doing so. thanks for this Skip. 

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Cromwell,

I have one question for you.  When you receive a text from her how do you feel?  What is your instantaneous emotional response?  Excitement, dread, fear, guilt, something in between, all of the above?  I ask this because all rationalisation aside, it is this that you need to be most aware of, as it will be this that ultimately drives your actions.  Tune in to yourself and notice what your body is telling you.  Then, and only then, think seriously about what you want to do next.  I think you will find your answer.  Notice I am talking about you here.  Not her.  Make that shift. 

Love and light x

[Shawnlam]

Shawn, I don't want to hijack, so this might be answered in a new thread, but is your takeaway that from all that happened is that she was strong and vengeful and you were a victim?  I ask, because I think she might be feeling that you were strong and vengeful and she was weak and overwhelmed and being pushed and couldn't handle it all that was facing her.


Curious to hear your thoughts... .I'm not minimizing the humiliation and disrespect that you felt, just asking if it was strength/vengeance or weakness/overwhelmed/bad choices. Just asking the question of predator/victim.

 No I will not say I’m a pure victim I played my role as well .I use the word victim because I didn’t know what I was getting myself into but then again she didn’t know she was unwell.All in all both me and her had parts to play in our relationship,sometimes I feel cheated and victimized but then I remind myself I participated the whole time.