Get a divorce or get a tattoo?

[pearlsw]

So, on Monday I got another divorce threat. It was fairly dramatic, but short by his standards and ended in him sobbing and asking for my forgiveness and wanting to die. Today, just 5 days or so later, he suggests getting a tattoo.

We have about 5 months left to go on a deal, of sorts, to see if we will stay together or not. He dreams up and has all kinds of ideas for “our future”, but I’m just not feeling it. I’m leaning heavily towards a breakup, but he’s in the opposite frame of mind most of the time. Black and white thinking is typical for him.

There is no way I am ever getting a tattoo, no offense to those who hold them dear. Tattoos are just not my thing. In fact, I am sure they are not his “thing” either as he has none. And I thought they were not allowed in his religion, but okay. Today he really wants one and wants me to want one.

I think he just wants me to LOVE him and he has latched on to the fact I can’t say it lately after all the suicide and divorce threats of the past many months. He wants to hold on to me and fears someone “taking me” from him and wants to tie me to him any way he can.  But it is the d*mn breakup threat cycle that has likely doomed us to not having a viable future.

This tattoo stuff has got to be a joke. I laughed and he laughed, but when I asked again later…he said he means it and yes, he wants me to get one too. Well, I have officially seen and heard it all.  

Does he even know me? I have no tattoos. I have never mentioned wanting one. I am 1000% sure I’ll never get one. I don’t even like stray ink marks on my fingers from a pen. Sigh.

The sad part is when he LOVES me we do get along, especially now that he’s taking medicine.  He’s happier, less hyper vigilant, cheerful, brags about how “easy-going” I am - he’s happy with himself and with me. But being with an emotionally sensitive person is not…something I am sure I want to do for a lifetime anymore after how far he’s gone with me. I’m not so happy, but trying to keep an open mind. Big picture though, it was just too much for me last year/the start of this year no matter how much I wanted this to be my last relationship and go on until the end of our lives.

He wiped out the holiday season (and I don’t want any more holidays with him) and he’s damaged my relationships with my family and my health. And now it is hard for me to imagine spending time with him and his family again, but ya gotta be a team player if you are on the team…

We ran into some of his relatives today…and it brought up a lot of bad feelings for both of us. When he is with me I am “everything”, when he is with others his head goes in a different direction…

I’m here now out of a sense of obligation and duty to care and just weariness. I yearn for stability. I’m a bit numb inside most of the time, but I can recover.

After he was acting pretty “normal” for almost a whole month I thought wow, is this the new normal? Could this work? Could things be good enough to justify living this life together? Or just as I lower my defenses, again, will I fall into a another trap - his mood swings? I struggled to remind myself and discuss the past so I didn’t…I can’t act as if this really extreme stuff hasn’t happened. I don’t want to dwell on it, or make him feel bad, but I can’t just let his off/on way of relating to me endlessly run the show.

I cannot live with the relationship being shut off and on like a light switch. I can’t. It’s enough. He always says he’ll stop saying it, stop making threats, but he can’t it seems. And so I can’t properly bond to him and feel loyal to him and plan a future or dream with him. I can’t. So I twirl around and around on his hamster wheel until it suddenly stops and I fall off, and then he starts it all back up again. These “falls” have made it hard to feel any level of excitement…or allow me to feel any faith in his words. His words mean nothing to me really.

Lately, he is constantly pressuring to match his emotions…and I’m just not extreme like that, I can’t and don’t want to match it.  I fear leaving him though…I am hoping the work I do now will make that easier if we go our separate ways…but…that it won’t be high conflict, but…he asks me, most days, to “never, ever leave him.”

He set this pattern into motion the first week we met and, we discussed this, he’s taken this really true, loving person, me, and nearly loved me to death. I feel bad for him, he really wants to give and receive love, but he can’t do it in healthy way. What started out as really genuine and special…well, I don’t know yet how it ends. Happy enough ever after? Or…Happier apart ever after?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[juju2]

Hi P

All there is, is me getting down to cause and conditions of myself. Without looking at what is going on w me, it's a crap shoot

What I found, I have codependency issues big time.  I need to deal w me.  Then, I am healthy, can be healthy in r/s.  Wish there is a better answer.

With hope, j

[Turkish]

What's his underlying feeling on you getting a tattoo, have you asked?

[pearlsw]

I woke up and saw these quotes to start off my day:

“A wise woman once said “f—- this s**t” and she lived happily ever after.“

That might be me in the long run.

“No relationship is ever a waste of time. If it didn't bring you what you want, it taught you what you don't want.”

I’ve always been pretty positive about relationships and very open to folks I’ve dated, letting things develop as they do, but…the most important thing to me, single or alone, is no drama.

hey turkish, thanks for the reply!

I think/hope it’s mostly a joke, but means to show his desire for a connection with me. A hundred break up threats ago I might have wanted this connection. Breakup threats damage stuff. I can’t even simulate them in return, I sometimes wish I could, so he could understand how bad those words feel and how much damage they do. The damage is more than he can comprehend, and gets him the opposite of what he wants, of what I want in life…I can’t be myself with those words coming up again and again. I never “fight” them anymore, I say “okay”.

We’ve joked about it a few times lately…saying the words “I divorce you” and I’ve liked the “practice” of saying the words even in jest. They do hurt though. I really hate breakups.

I think I’m doing the right thing…I see what it is now…I am trying to lay the groundwork for a smooth break. I think I’ve been doing that for a long time. I must be careful because I can’t assume/operate as if I can get a “non” breakup from him, I mean a break up like I’ve had with “nons”…but I can try if it goes that way.

It’s hard to give up on the notion of things working out though…but then the reality of things experienced with him hits me and I don’t like having this kind of history with someone…If I end this I can wipe the slate clean and put this all behind me without looking back. Things is, I don’t see him letting me go…he’s like an octopus. And if he’s acting nice and fairly “normal” that makes it hard to to go too…We’ll see…I just have to act in good faith these next months... and live my current life a day at a time.

Hi juju, nice to hear from you. hope you are well!

I’m not co-dependent, but I do wonder at times why my relationships aren’t lasting as long as I thought they would. The hard part is figuring out if I’m just picking the “wrong” partners, or…what the deal is. Honestly, I don’t want to overthink it too much. No point in building a pile of regrets. Better to keep my own mind healthy and be grateful for all I’ve experienced, the good and the bad. That’s what feels right for me.

thanks all, pearl.

[Turkish]

It sounds like you may have a joking dynamic. Do you think it might be that he isn't joking when you might be,  a conflict of values you might otherwise share but not on this case?

[pearlsw]

It sounds like you may have a joking dynamic. Do you think it might be that he isn't joking when you might be,  a conflict of values you might otherwise share but not on this case?

i do tend to joke a lot…it’s about all i have at times to make this sometimes tough life bearable. i can find the absurdity in it. i probably initiated jokes about tattoos ages ago, but today he seemed so serious. i see the real meaning though. he wants forever. except when he doesn’t.

i just think he has extreme reactions…and he’s kinda blown it with me. and then i later added fuel to the fire. there are supposed to no break up threats, but i think he’s very worried about an upcoming trip i am making…that’s in the mix too. he “can’t live without me”, but it is really hard to be with someone who…can’t be consistent, can’t be stable. it can’t go on like this. i wish it would work. would make my life easy. could focus on work instead of working so hard at the relationship. i’d be willing to put in effort, but a break up ends all. you can’t pull that weekly or monthly. illness or no illness. not viable.

if he can’t end the pattern i will have to. finally and forever. it's sad.

[SunandMoon]

Hi Pearlsw

Another divorce threat must be so disappointing... .even if it was over fairly quickly. Unfortunately, this may be his "go to response" and may never completely stop. It seems to be the case with pwBPD. Divorce or killing themselves - always that extreme "solution" to ending their pain.

I hope you don't mind me saying this but from your posts, you don't seem to have really been happy for most of this year. It's sounds like just too much had been said and done for you to really feel like there's a chance at happily ever after with this man. Is that the case?

The tattoo thing, of course, is another way of tying you to each other. I had a little chuckle when you posted this:

"A wise woman once said “f—- this s**t” and she lived happily ever after.“

Would that be your hypothetical tattoo? 

[pearlsw]

hahaahah.   

Luckily with all the stress/chocolate eating I’ve done this year I have enough extra real estate in the rear to handle that long sentence in a baroque script!  Gotta keep it classy.  

Even best case, he’d been great all along, I’d be a bit dissatisfied with my overseas life. I want so much more out of life and my work opportunities here, so far, do not afford that. The travel opportunities are pretty special though, and not possible for me back in my home country. But I believe in making the best of things wherever I am. There are upsides and downsides no matter where you are.

There is a chance a new opportunity may be about to open up here though. Sometimes it feels like there are too many opportunities in life - of lovers, jobs, countries! I could restart in my home country, or pick another country and go, go, go!  Be with someone new, keep at this, or be alone - there’s something to be said for each option. Other times I do feel hopeless and see no way out. Brains are funny like that! All just thoughts.

Besides whether or not I want to be with him, and I can’t see this lasting a whole lifetime at the moment, I want more fulfilling work and a chance to have friendships - a full life. Nothing about my life is like it was before I moved here - the good parts from before I’d still like to have now.  It is really not easy being an immigrant.

I’ve also been dealing with a lot of injuries, and his depression brought the whole household down for a long time. It broke my heart to see him suffer so. My own pain/injuries affect me very hard mentally at times. I am sometimes surprised how hard. I need exercise to cope at my best in life and it just isn’t working consistently at the moment. Working on that though. It really is one of the best things for me overall in life. It makes life worth living for me. When it gets messed up, being able to train normally, I can sink very low.

Thanks so much for your kind words and caring! It’s always nice when the SunandMoon comes by and shines!

[RolandOfEld]

Nothing about my life is like it was before I moved here - the good parts from before I’d still like to have now.  It is really not easy being an immigrant.

I know so well how you feel here, pearls. Sometimes I open Facebook and see friends enjoying a traditional American BBQ in beautiful American weather surrounded by food that is simply impossible to get where I am (unless you're super wealthy) and I want to cry. The things we face with our partners are hard enough without having the people and things that can comfort us near at hand. Add onto that the weather here right now is like living in a tropical jungle and it's enough to drive a person insane.

And of course, no matter how long you work there and how well you speak the language, you are forever "the foreigner".

What do you do to cope?

~ROE

[SunandMoon]

That makes three of us ROE! I open Facebook or WhatsApp with my sister back home and just miss my home country so much sometimes. Normal people who speak my language; bbq's and family get togethers. And the thought of not always having to stop and think about cultural differences all the time is nice.

It is hard being an expat - even harder being an expat and living with a partner with BPD in a strange country!

I'm in SE Asia and it's like living in a sauna most of the time too! Pretty much hot and wet, or hot and dry here.

We get it, Pearlsw. It can feel very lonely and isolated at times. On the other hand, it can also open us up to a whole range of exciting choices as, once you've been a nomad, the whole world becomes an option! I sometimes wonder, if I ever left my husband, where I might want to go next. I've been in Asia almost 19 years and probably wouldn't go back home - when there's so many other places to explore. It's nice having that option... .

As a stranger in a strange land, it's really important for me to have friends outside of my relationship, and to have a car and access to transport so I can get out and do my own thing. Is there any chance of that where you are, Pearls?

[isilme]

Neither.  Piercings are the way to go.

.  I had a mild mid-life freak out (at the ripe old age of 26) and realized I always DID want either a tattoo or a piercing, coming from an artsy background, lots of punk rock friends, I felt I was getting too old to get either.  I decided on the piercing because it'd be easier to remove and it cost less.  Lots less.  And I am picky about art, and did not trust another artist to draw my original design on my back (crazy zodiac thing with the Pisces fish swirling on the small of my back, turning to flame and a phoenix in the... .um, lower front area.  So that would be pricey, take a long time, and I'd hate someone to screw it up.

I even had a slightly older coworker, 30, agree to get a belly button piercing with me, and we were to meet the next Saturday at the parlor and get it - she chickened out, but I was like "I'm here, and I've done most things in my life alone as it is, so yeah, I'm doing this."  And I got it, and while I dress like super Miss Conservative office working old person, I have my little belly ring still.

So, it sounds like you are finally at a point where you've been able to assess and reassess things and it's totally okay if you feel this is just too much of a roller coaster.  And not wanting to get inked it also fine - I have friends very into it who replaced their wedding bands with ring-finger tattoos.  I find a lot of tattoos to be kinda poorly drawn, and admit to being a bit judgy about them and people with them - I think you can have them and still have some decorum, but I also think your over canvas as your body should be treated like a canvas - I don't like Taz from Looney toons on your shoulder with a portrait of your mom right next to it.  My friend who got a hibiscus for each of her kids, pretty, well drawn, good art.  The one with a quick and dirty pumpkin for her kid, looks kinda yucky

Loving someone who mostly hurts your heart is hard.  And it's okay to decide if that is something to try to hold on to or not. 

[pearlsw]

Wow, ya’ll! Thanks for all the support and understanding! How kind! How fun!

Islime, You have forced me to confess that I used to have a belly ring! hahahaah. It was on a whim and incredibly sexy if I must say, but that was ages ago! I had to remove it because it just wasn’t a good part of my body for jewelry, but oh to have that 20 something shape that could work that piece of jewelry again!  A gal can dream!  

If he wants a “permanent connection” he oughta stop the breakups and focus on the future, that’s the only way a life together even has a chance. Counting down to October…

Oh ROE and SunandMoon,

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You get it! I manage to be okay with the food not being all it is back home. I can cook but you can’t get all the ingredients, you know how it is. A few cycles of drama back (with my SO) it suddenly occurred to me I didn’t have to live in my home country, I could try Asia or Latin America after a brief pit stop in the home country to organize the remnants of my life there. I’m making my first trip to Beijing in a few weeks and wondering how that might spark/change my interests.

I used to feel like I had to choose between career and love. I went with love, but perhaps career would have been wiser. Now I am most interested in happiness, wherever on the planet I might find that. Me waking up and feeling safe and secure of my future and having my life in my own hands again is most appealing.

I had a car at a young age so the car free life was kind of a fun switch for me. I love the trains here! The big problem here is the cost of all transportation. It’s insane, wish it was subsidized somehow to make it more affordable. They do pay a living wage here so if I just had a full-time job I would be fine.

I was very short sighted, or carefree, and did not really consider the official legal immigration side of things. “We’re in love and want to be together? Okay!” I thought. Let’s make that happen! He had a better job and kids on this side of the world (though at the time we met he thought he might never see them again, they’d been internationally kidnapped by their mom) and he had other reasons to stay here, so okay, I’m flexible and up for adventure and change, I’m a team player and reasonable, I’ll come to him I thought. I didn’t see how this could be used against me as a tool of fear (my immigration status) because it never occurred to me someone I loved would treat me badly.

ROE, because of racism in my own country I was sometimes treated more like a foreigner there! Here 20% of the pop. is foreign and there aren’t enough people like me to actively hate I think.  I like to be away from the burden of that history/dynamic, but I miss talking to native speakers so I can speak very fast and they get my dumb cultural references!