How do you "bring them back from the edge"? I need help from the old pros here.

[Depression = 72% of members]

The situation with my dBPDbf is horrible right now. He was triggered into a very extended period of dysregulation after a therapy session and something that came up in it about a month ago. He has been cycling in and out of dysregulation and even paranoia and dissociation. This is the worst I have ever seen him, and this is the most extended spell. I'm so frazzled and stressed I can barely eat, sleep, or function, but I am trying to be strong.

Things came to a head the Friday before last where after nearly a month of verbal abuse, silent treatment, withholding affection, and various degrees of acting out I came to the conclusion that maybe I could not take this anymore and I needed to leave him. It is the last thing in the world I wanted to do, and it broke my heart. But that day, I felt as if he insulted me one more time, I was going to have to make plans to leave. I am crying as type this, because we talked about growing old together, and our relationship is mostly beautiful, though he seems to like to dwell on the bad, as if two year old disagreements about what to have for dinner are still fatal to this day. I would stay with him forever, even with his odd unpredictable behavior. Especially if he could get proper treatment and maybe learn better how to manage his emotions. (He starts a new program May 21.)

I believe he panicked a bit, and he made every effort to get me to not leave. Once I came around, and consented to try to work on things, he immediately tried to turn around and tell me to move out "NOW", because he doesn't love me anymore, and that my trying to leave him "destroyed every last ounce of love he had."

He has said this before, usually when he feels shame or rejection, but this time he seems more hell-bent on continuing to play that tune because I do believe I scared him. I know I set a boundary I did not keep and caused a problem, but really I did not WANT to leave... .however at the time I believed I was actually going to. I was at the last frayed end of my rope.

At this point he is maintaining that he feels nothing, wants me out, and is saying it in am almost child-like way. "I don't like you anymore, get out!" But logistically, even if I WERE to do that - it is NOT an overnight process. We have a four bedroom house, a large property, and a significant amount of possessions that are tied up in our life. Even if one of use were to leave the other, legally, a three month agreement/grace period exists where we live, so that people can't evict other people out into the streets. He's aware of this, of course.

I do not wish to be invalidating to how he says he feels right now, and I believe he IS shaken up and has a defensive wall up where he really currently believes it would be safer to have me leave and to not love me. I have suggested if that's how he really feels, then we need a contingency plan. I also told him that because I do not wish to separate, especially in a time of crisis, or move out with no real planned arrangements, that I want to propose a cooling off period, then we have to sit and talk like adults about how to proceed. I have also played the hard roll again and told him if he really wants to separate, he will need to do all the legwork on finding me a new place, and moving my stuff and setting me up there - and telling the kids why this is happening and that I do not want it. (I am very close to them, and get along great with them.) In other words, he has to redo everything I had to undo to move all the way across the city to live with him - because he asked me to. I gave up my own flat very close to my job, and totally uprooted my life. I have invested time and money into the property we share and this family.

He continues to say he can't stand me and wants me gone, but will do nothing to actually participate in the process. He says "I'll help you, ok?" He doesn't provide any explanation as to HOW. And he's not actually doing anything other than laying around in the basement in the dark, and sitting on the couch playing videogames in his underwear with a vacant stare. (He DOES have a job, but often works from home, and this behavior is in his "down time." Hours on end on the couch staring at the video screen, even when it's beautiful, warm, and sunny out.

You see,  I have been through "normal" break-ups - where the relationship runs its course, and the love really does dissipate. It's a bit of a slow process and is handled compassionately. It doesn't happen abruptly when just a short bit ago, we were madly in love and still with amazing sexual chemistry, and planning our future. If this "break-up" were to occur - it's the BPD version. I love you one second, I hate you the next. Black and white, no way to discuss the matter and find a peaceful solution, or maybe work on our differences and re-evaluate the relationship in a bit - like most nons do. It's just an emotional outburst, followed by a violent coup de grace.

His defense is to say "I hate you leave me now!"

He will mix this with questions as to why I would want to be with a guy like him, can't I do better, etc. And then maybe threats about how he will drive me away, etc. It's all horribly painful. But a few things stand out.

1.) He says "leave me!" but will not participate in the planning or arrangements.
2.) He alternates between "I hate you and want you gone!" and "Why would you even want to be with a guy like me? Doesn't everyone tell you to leave me?" So it's a mix of fear and insecurity, I think.
3.) He will sit on the couch with me and talk to me nicely about what's on TV or other general things, and pretend everything is fine. If I try to approach the subject of wanting to resolve our differences, he has the "No! I don't love you!" Outburst, then literally goes RIGHT BACK to talking nicely to me about neutral things.
4.) Last night I was feeling anxious and ill about all of it, and legitimately as if I was going to have a full blown panic attack. My normal personality is NOT prone to anxiety, but this relationship has caused that. I asked if I could lay near him, and if he could just place a comforting hand on my back. He at first refused, saying "You'll use it against me to say the relationship is still fine!" (?) I said quietly, no, that I really just needed a comforting hand. I asked if he would comfort a platonic friend if they needed it, and he said yes. So I asked if he feels nothing for me but still treats me like "a friend" when we watch TV, then why was it not ok? I believe the fact that he actually DOES love me but doesn't WANT TO right now is why he refuses to touch me. Eventually he consented to it, because he could see I was trembling and I really have a long day today and needed to sleep.

My question is - when they get this dysregulated, but really are not participating in any kind of separation process, but just keep repeating that they want you to leave - but don't actually take measures to really break up like adults do... .then how have you in the past managed to get them to come around again?  I don't believe he really wants this to end, I think he just feels guilt, shame, and fear, and wants to avoid that, and distance himself from it. At least there's a really good chance of that, and I want to be sure.

If there is a way to get him to feel safe and be able to feel ok again  - I'm not sure what it is. I miss my partner and our closeness, but it can't be forced. But just sitting there at arms length being sort of rejected but not really "released" ... .I have no idea what to do. It kills me.

Some of you have been with your BPD partners for 10, 15, 20+ years. How did you manage to get back on track after something like this? I really need the BPD Family's help. Nobody I know has any experience dealing with something like this.  Nobody else I know would understand.

Thanks, everyone.

[BasementDweller]

The situation with my dBPDbf is horrible right now. He was triggered into a very extended period of dysregulation after a therapy session and something that came up in it about a month ago. He has been cycling in and out of dysregulation and even paranoia and dissociation. This is the worst I have ever seen him, and this is the most extended spell. I'm so frazzled and stressed I can barely eat, sleep, or function, but I am trying to be strong.

Things came to a head the Friday before last where after nearly a month of verbal abuse, silent treatment, withholding affection, and various degrees of acting out I came to the conclusion that maybe I could not take this anymore and I needed to leave him. It is the last thing in the world I wanted to do, and it broke my heart. But that day, I felt as if he insulted me one more time, I was going to have to make plans to leave. I am crying as type this, because we talked about growing old together, and our relationship is mostly beautiful, though he seems to like to dwell on the bad, as if two year old disagreements about what to have for dinner are still fatal to this day. I would stay with him forever, even with his odd unpredictable behavior. Especially if he could get proper treatment and maybe learn better how to manage his emotions. (He starts a new program May 21.)

I believe he panicked a bit, and he made every effort to get me to not leave. Once I came around, and consented to try to work on things, he immediately tried to turn around and tell me to move out "NOW", because he doesn't love me anymore, and that my trying to leave him "destroyed every last ounce of love he had."

He has said this before, usually when he feels shame or rejection, but this time he seems more hell-bent on continuing to play that tune because I do believe I scared him. I know I set a boundary I did not keep and caused a problem, but really I did not WANT to leave... .however at the time I believed I was actually going to. I was at the last frayed end of my rope.

At this point he is maintaining that he feels nothing, wants me out, and is saying it in am almost child-like way. "I don't like you anymore, get out!" But logistically, even if I WERE to do that - it is NOT an overnight process. We have a four bedroom house, a large property, and a significant amount of possessions that are tied up in our life. Even if one of use were to leave the other, legally, a three month agreement/grace period exists where we live, so that people can't evict other people out into the streets. He's aware of this, of course.

I do not wish to be invalidating to how he says he feels right now, and I believe he IS shaken up and has a defensive wall up where he really currently believes it would be safer to have me leave and to not love me. I have suggested if that's how he really feels, then we need a contingency plan. I also told him that because I do not wish to separate, especially in a time of crisis, or move out with no real planned arrangements, that I want to propose a cooling off period, then we have to sit and talk like adults about how to proceed. I have also played the hard roll again and told him if he really wants to separate, he will need to do all the legwork on finding me a new place, and moving my stuff and setting me up there - and telling the kids why this is happening and that I do not want it. (I am very close to them, and get along great with them.) In other words, he has to redo everything I had to undo to move all the way across the city to live with him - because he asked me to. I gave up my own flat very close to my job, and totally uprooted my life. I have invested time and money into the property we share and this family.

He continues to say he can't stand me and wants me gone, but will do nothing to actually participate in the process. He says "I'll help you, ok?" He doesn't provide any explanation as to HOW. And he's not actually doing anything other than laying around in the basement in the dark, and sitting on the couch playing videogames in his underwear with a vacant stare. (He DOES have a job, but often works from home, and this behavior is in his "down time." Hours on end on the couch staring at the video screen, even when it's beautiful, warm, and sunny out.

You see,  I have been through "normal" break-ups - where the relationship runs its course, and the love really does dissipate. It's a bit of a slow process and is handled compassionately. It doesn't happen abruptly when just a short bit ago, we were madly in love and still with amazing sexual chemistry, and planning our future. If this "break-up" were to occur - it's the BPD version. I love you one second, I hate you the next. Black and white, no way to discuss the matter and find a peaceful solution, or maybe work on our differences and re-evaluate the relationship in a bit - like most nons do. It's just an emotional outburst, followed by a violent coup de grace.

His defense is to say "I hate you leave me now!"

He will mix this with questions as to why I would want to be with a guy like him, can't I do better, etc. And then maybe threats about how he will drive me away, etc. It's all horribly painful. But a few things stand out.

1.) He says "leave me!" but will not participate in the planning or arrangements.
2.) He alternates between "I hate you and want you gone!" and "Why would you even want to be with a guy like me? Doesn't everyone tell you to leave me?" So it's a mix of fear and insecurity, I think.
3.) He will sit on the couch with me and talk to me nicely about what's on TV or other general things, and pretend everything is fine. If I try to approach the subject of wanting to resolve our differences, he has the "No! I don't love you!" Outburst, then literally goes RIGHT BACK to talking nicely to me about neutral things.
4.) Last night I was feeling anxious and ill about all of it, and legitimately as if I was going to have a full blown panic attack. My normal personality is NOT prone to anxiety, but this relationship has caused that. I asked if I could lay near him, and if he could just place a comforting hand on my back. He at first refused, saying "You'll use it against me to say the relationship is still fine!" (?) I said quietly, no, that I really just needed a comforting hand. I asked if he would comfort a platonic friend if they needed it, and he said yes. So I asked if he feels nothing for me but still treats me like "a friend" when we watch TV, then why was it not ok? I believe the fact that he actually DOES love me but doesn't WANT TO right now is why he refuses to touch me. Eventually he consented to it, because he could see I was trembling and I really have a long day today and needed to sleep.

My question is - when they get this dysregulated, but really are not participating in any kind of separation process, but just keep repeating that they want you to leave - but don't actually take measures to really break up like adults do... .then how have you in the past managed to get them to come around again?  I don't believe he really wants this to end, I think he just feels guilt, shame, and fear, and wants to avoid that, and distance himself from it. At least there's a really good chance of that, and I want to be sure.

If there is a way to get him to feel safe and be able to feel ok again  - I'm not sure what it is. I miss my partner and our closeness, but it can't be forced. But just sitting there at arms length being sort of rejected but not really "released" ... .I have no idea what to do. It kills me.

Some of you have been with your BPD partners for 10, 15, 20+ years. How did you manage to get back on track after something like this? I really need the BPD Family's help. Nobody I know has any experience dealing with something like this.  Nobody else I know would understand.

Thanks, everyone.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi BD,

I can talk about what I've done, but I think none of it was a good idea. Did I manage to get things back to the status quo? Yes. But the price was very high. When he has pushed me away, I strangely find that he somehow wants me to almost out talk him and dominate him a bit. In the past I would have to go to extreme lengths of speechifying and declaration making to make him feel loved and then he'd "break". Then he would want to be close, and all was back to his "normal", and things would go on until the next time. He LOVES me (and hates me) and can't stand the idea that I don't LOVE him as much, but I've told him my feelings for him took a big nosedive after last year. Since then the pressure is on in all sorts of ways... .So he breaks up, which is why my feelings have decreased, and it just goes on and on. It'll stop this year because I've set a deadline with it... .I just can't figure out what to do next... .

If you are just trying to get through a month, given how you feel and all the logistics involved in a break up, I think you'll make it if you just don't give in to the words of what he is saying. He likely does not want a breakup if he is not really acting on it. In my case, even when my SO totally convinces me he's going to act on it, even takes me to talk to a lawyer in person, he can never quite do it. I don't know what to make of all this. Surely one of these times it will be real, right?

I'm with ya. I know how to do breakups with non, and they are just as you describe. You can manage them, you can negotiate them. So, as painful, as it is, and it is excruciatingly mentally painful, and having gone through one just this weekend, I can remind you and myself they tend to not be real, as real as they are/feel.

I think your process has to be two fold. Meditate. Do all the self-care you can squeeze in... .look further down the line... .Take care of you. As to him, speak to him using the tools when you can, and when you can't, it just is what it is. This past weekend I used them sometimes, other times I didn't. I defended myself a bit. But I noticed myself doing it and I pulled back at a certain point, set a limit with the amount of it I'd do. I hear ya, years and years of stuff come up, true accusations, false accusations, I'm pretty sure the kitchen sink flew by! He has no ability to follow fair fighting rules and he looked scary. His face can turn very evil looking. I'm not scared of him, he just had an extreme look in his eyes, out of his mind, but then he calmed... .I expect him today to be calm again. But who knows.

He's going to start this new program and you can make it to that date if you want to, I think, and it sounds like you do!  

What in the therapy session set him off?

with deep compassion, pearl.

[BasementDweller]

Hi BD,

When he has pushed me away, I strangely find that he somehow wants me to almost out talk him and dominate him a bit. In the past I would have to go to extreme lengths of speechifying and declaration making to make him feel loved and then he'd "break". Then he would want to be close, and all was back to his "normal", and things would go on until the next time.

If you are just trying to get through a month, given how you feel and all the logistics involved in a break up, I think you'll make it if you just don't give in to the words of what he is saying. He likely does not want a breakup if he is not really acting on it. In my case, even when my SO totally convinces me he's going to act on it, even takes me to talk to a lawyer in person, he can never quite do it. I don't know what to make of all this. Surely one of these times it will be real, right?

What in the therapy session set him off?

with deep compassion, pearl.

Hi, pearl! Great to hear from you, and thank you so much for your reply. I'm sorry you had the fur flying at your place last weekend as well. I understand all too well that scary looking face when the switch flips and you don't recognize them anymore.

Yes, I used to do exactly the same as you - fight my way back in, with speeches and declarations, and he'd call me a bulldozer, etc., but usually come around. I hated doing it, but it seemed to be the only thing to get through his thick skull. He doesn't listen to reason, since he... .often can't grasp it. This time, though, he is saying it won't work, that my being a "bulldozer" is why he hates me, etc., and that he feels I have, "no soft side at all for him, and will never listen to him." (I was doing really good at validation for a while, I really was, but he went so far off the deep end that I too lost my sanity a bit.)

So I have to put the bulldozer away right now, haha. I think he's overwhelmed and it won't work at this time. Oddly, in every past relationship I have ever had, I was seen as mellow, diplomatic, calm, even-tempered, and not terribly emotional. Never had a "stormy" relationship. This BPD stuff has made me into a wreck.

The sessions were rough on him because he started to delve into the topic of his mother's abuse and how that affected him. There were also moments where we had to talk about our conflicts and he had to hear me say that some of his words and actions have hurt or scared me. I believe this triggered a lot of shame. All of that combined opened up a ton of wounds.

My partner has never gone so far as to contact a lawyer, but he has threatened to once. I told him I would not like it to come to that, but if I am forced into a corner, I will react accordingly, though it's the last thing on earth I want to have to do. He has told me in the past that my intelligence and tenacity intimidates him, and I suspect he doesn't really want to go down that road with me for many reasons. Namely, he does have a couple of police files due to to episodes in the past where he got physical while intoxicated. I have also sought help from a doctor on more than one occasion due to the stress of all this, and our therapist has witnessed his rages. So there's some documentation out there. If this were to turn into a huge "case" it could cause issues with social services, and his kids, and I have gently, and in a non-threatening way suggested that we should try to address our issues like adults and not involve the authorities or lawyers, because it will expose a lot that he may not want to put out there. I hope he stays with his senses on this one. I have nothing to hide... .but he does, and his ex wife is really stirring the pot about wanting to violate the custody agreement, and hunting for ammo - anything she can get her hands on. I really hope this blows over soon, but it's the ugliest it's ever gotten. I'm terrified.

Do you think maybe calmly just "existing" at home, avoiding touchy subjects, and staying at arms' length even if it feels lonely and horrible is the best way to go? I might propose that we try to just "chill" and avoid any relationship chat for two weeks, and then see if there's anything that we might want to address if we feel calm. Even at our worst, the physical intimacy has never been an issue. At most a day or two might pass without... .it. Now it's been weeks. That really scares me. But he is definitely wanting to really emphasize that he thinks I'm a terrible person right now.

[SunandMoon]

Hi BD,

I really emphasise with you right now. It's a terrible feeling, stomach churning, and even us strong woman can be brought to our knees trying to deal with a dysregulating pwBPD.

Mine has behaved like this in the past. And we have gotten through it. In fact, he doesn't do it any more - so there is hope that things will get better again.

I think he really is too overwhelmed and you have to put any relationship talk on the back burner for now. He is showing you this without words by acting friendly when chat is casual or about general topics, but arcing up whenever the relationship is brought up.

The sessions were rough on him because he started to delve into the topic of his mother's abuse and how that affected him. There were also moments where we had to talk about our conflicts and he had to hear me say that some of his words and actions have hurt or scared me. I believe this triggered a lot of shame. 

 He alternates between "I hate you and want you gone!" and "Why would you even want to be with a guy like me? 

I'm sure this is obvious to you. In therapy, he has had to confront that there might be something wrong with him. And he's also had to hear how his behaviour has affected you and hurt you. As a result, when he gets to the heart of accepting these truths, he has to paint himself black.

Having BPD, feeling the core shame becomes too much, so the only alternative is to push it off onto you... .paint you black. Make you leave so he won't have to feel bad about himself any more.

At this point, any relationship talk (or decisions) will just make him feel worse. You can see he's desperately avoiding it. I think you have to let it go, keep things light and - shocking as it is - pretend that everything is normal.

Sometimes I think they go so far down the rabbit hole, they don't know how to come back.

Our job is to be very stable and unreactive. To be the wise woman and not get sucked into the dysregulation. The important thing now is to let him find his way back to baseline and to make it safe for him to come back. There will be time for the serious discussion when he is stable.

For you, you will need to find ways to distract yourself from the gut wrenching stress of it all.  Go out - make an effort to get out of the house, even though you probably don't want to. It's vital to have some breathing space, to connect to normal people, and to step out of the disorder so you can find your calm centre.

I feel sure he wants a divorce no more than you do... .stay strong BD! 

[Radcliff]

BD,

I could relate to almost every single thing you said in your post.  Including the anxiety, and asking for a hand on my back, but not having it be in the pwBPD's tool kit.

pearlsw and SunandMoon have good advice.  I agree that it's not the time for relationship talk.  I will not claim that my actions were effective in the long term, but here's what I would do when the sky was falling and my wife wanted to break up.  In the moment, I'd tell her that I believed in us, that we could be wonderful together, and she wasn't going to change my opinion on that.  I'd give her space, and in the morning I'd leave for work.  I would continue to be friendly and responsive on any topics she raised, but I'd go about my business.  Usually, things would be frosty for about two or three days.  I would sometimes leave for work thinking my wife was going to call a lawyer and file for divorce, and then come home to a nicely cooked dinner, with no word of what had caused the dysregulation.

The key things are:
1.  I did not pursue, but instead withdrew a bit -- available for reconnect, but not trying to reconnect
2.  I did not talk about any sensitive topics
3.  I calmly stated my faith in our relationship, playing the steady one
4.  I looked for cues from her that it was time to re-engage and give her attention

Your timing may be different than ours.  But the pattern of making separation threats and not following through, yet not nurturing the relationship or problem solving, those are familiar.  Be patient.  You are more in the driver's seat than it may feel like now.

WW

[RolandOfEld]

BD let me first say we are here for you during this crisis. I think you are doing a great job.  

Big episodes like the one you're going through can completely derail your life. It's like a rollercoaster as your partner goes from one emotion / thought to another. The key is to get yourself OFF that rollercoaster as soon as you realize it's not yours and you didn't build it.

I have also played the hard roll again and told him if he really wants to separate, he will need to do all the legwork on finding me a new place, and moving my stuff and setting me up there - and telling the kids why this is happening and that I do not want it. (I am very close to them, and get along great with them.) In other words, he has to redo everything I had to undo to move all the way across the city to live with him - because he asked me to.

Awesome work! This is exactly what you should do. I cannot tell you how much time I wasted in the past looking at apartments, booking hotels, moving out, arranging childcare for my children, transferring money, all to accommodate uBPDw's dramatic and short-lived demands for separation.

Since learning about BPD, detaching, and setting boundaries, I now calmly and politely tell her if she wants to do these things, she is free to but she has to do it herself. The result is usually a huge extinction burst including threats of self harm or suicide, then begging, and usually a big dramatic finish like disappearing to a hotel with the kids. Then a call asking me to come to the hotel and asking if we can make up. OK.

I think no pwBPD can maintain chaos forever. They do burn out eventually, after which they will calm down and see that you're not going to budge on this. I don't get my wife to "come around again". I give her space, try to protect my own, maintain my boundaries on what I can't do, and she brings herself around.

Your husband has a mental illness that makes it almost impossible for him to plan any kind of sustained action or anticipate real life consequences. You do not have a mental illness and operate in the real world with real consequences. Let him have his big plans and in the mean time run your life as normally as you can. He's in the basement playing video games all night? Ok, treat yourself to your favorite takeout upstairs and binge on Netflix. Or go see a friend. Or join a class. Just because his life is chaos doesn't mean that yours has to be.

Easier said than done sometimes, I know. But the key message here comes back to your thread title: you cannot bring him back from the edge, nor is it your job, too. Unless there is genuine risk of suicide or self harm, you cannot save him from this. It has to come from him.

I am guessing at some point he will come back to baseline and you will feel a little more comfortable around him. This is when the relationship nurturing needs to take place I think, not in the middle of a dysregulation period. I think those times are for boundary setting, self protection, and in some cases tactical communication.

~ROE    

[BasementDweller]

In the moment, I'd tell her that I believed in us, that we could be wonderful together, and she wasn't going to change my opinion on that.  I'd give her space, and in the morning I'd leave for work.

This is basically word for word exactly what I said and did a couple of days ago. It always amazes me how many of us on this board have parallel experiences and discussions with our partners. That exact phrase "I believe in us and you will not change my opinion on that." It came from my heart, in those exact words, about three days ago.

Sun and Moon, WW, ROE - thank you all so very much. I can't tell you how much your kind words and support mean to me, because as you all probably know, you can get so caught up in all the chaos, and so isolated from "normal life" that you sincerely begin to believe you are the crazy one, that you deserve this, and that you are the reason the person you love is miserable. Sure, my presence may trigger him at times. Other things trigger him at times. But as you all have said - I did not cause this. It existed before I ever came along. I'm just witnessing it, presently.

There is so much complexity going on right now, and I know I can get long winded and type messages so long that nobody can get through them. I'll try not to do that and give the pertinent stuff. ;-) But like all relationships with BPD - there's a lot.

Besides what is going on with us, I think he is feeling separation anxiety about his sons. He has repetitively brought up that they are getting older and leaving the nest. He is having a really hard time with this, and I suspect it is at least partly because while he may have a very hard time in intimate partnerships with women, his sons have always been his "buddies" and he has never felt threatened by them. But now they are teenagers, and they want to be with their friends, and be home less. They also have caught on that their father has an emotional dysregulation disorder (though they may not truly understand that term) and has extreme mood swings, and becomes "clingy" with them when he's upset with me. It annoys them. They know it is likely worse since I moved in. Both he, and maybe to some degree, they, blame me for this. I have zero doubt that I have never been anything but kind and welcoming to those kids, but they don't deeply understand BPD. They don't really know WHY this is happening to Dad. They only know I'm connected to it all somehow. This breaks my heart. At least this is what I suspect.

The kids aren't with us this week as they should be and while his ex wife has suddenly been hostile to me for the first time ever, I suspect the more I observe that she played the heavy hand and refused to return the kids, but he consented... .because he doesn't want them to see him like this. He did go have dinner with them the other night and he made it a point to clean himself up, and look put together. (He can get disheveled when he dysregulates.) He has not seen them since, and I have no word on the situation. Yesterday evening, he came home from work, barely looked at me, and said, "I'm going to bed downstairs, I have to get up early." I noticed he had a brand new video game and receipt in his hand that he had just bought. I said "Ok, I'm going out after work tomorrow, so I'll be home late . If you'd like to have the boys over to BBQ, that might be a nice 'guys night' for you three."

He had a vacant stare and said nothing - just looked at the floor. I asked if he could give me a lift in the morning if he was passing my office. He looked normal then, and said "I'm sorry, I have to go to the south office tomorrow. I'm not going that way." Totally normal tone. I said, "Ok, no worries, goodnight."

I heard the video game going on for hours on end after that.

Earlier this week when he was lashing out at me he told me that every morning his kids used to jump out of their beds and come snuggle and sleep with him in the morning. He insinuated that now that I am with him, they can't do that anymore. They are 14 and 17 years old. The older boy is already 6'3" and his "little" brother is catching up fast. They have not slept with their dad since they were small children. He is not thinking in the present and his memories are getting all jumbled. Some of this may have to do with his messy divorce from their mom when she was unfaithful, and left him for her affair partner and married him. A much younger, and very subservient guy with a lot of money. She brags that she told him "how it was gonna be"... .and that he does what he's told.   The boys were 3 and 6 at the time.

I don't think my BPDbf ever recovered from any of that, though it's been over a decade. He's still mixing up all his emotions about his relationship with his sons, and his ugly divorce, to the present. In her rant, his ex wife insinuated that if he isn't having a healthy relationship with his sons right now, then it's my fault (paraphrased.) It took every fiber of my being to restrain myself when what I really wanted to say was, "I wouldn't exactly consider you a morally superior bastion of knowledge about healthy relationships, lady." But I said nothing. No response at all.

I passed him in the kitchen this morning and he was avoiding eye contact and staring at the floor. I said, "Good morning, did you sleep ok?"

He said, very dramatically, "I don't know about that! Why do YOU care?"

With no response, I just left the room and went to the bedroom to finish getting ready for work. He came after me and said "Why don't you just leave me alone?"

I absolutely did not react. Not even a flinch. Not even a cursory glance at him. And for the first time in... .forever... .it didn't even get to me. It was sad, but it didn't *hurt*. That's not a rational person talking, and I can't take it personally.

I believe now I will actually not speak to him at all. Even "good morning" triggered him. I think it is best to give him a WIDE berth and say absolutely nothing to him, unless he speaks to me. And if it is insane, I will not acknowledge it. I'll pretend for a while I share a house with a mute roommate who sulks in the basement in misery, and I will go on with my life as if there is no black cloud hanging over us.

I truly have been neglecting myself and everyone I know to manage all this. I will, in fact leave him alone - and go enjoy myself tonight. The weather is perfect here, and there is a really cool Mexican Cantina on the water and I'm going to have dinner and some beers with my ex. (Not like that!) ;-) It's not scandalous, and I'm neither having an emotional nor physical affair. He's a great guy, but we broke up five years ago due to living on separate continents, and both having recently been through break-ups (I was divorcing, and he had a recent BPDexGF, oh, the irony) and us not being in a good place. Our timing was way off. He's the calmest, most rational man I know. I really just want to have a conversation with a sane person. So I will allow myself that, without guilt.

After what I have read from all of you, and my general observations, due to the length of time that he will sometimes isolate himself and sulk, as well as have manic phases where he's EXTREMELY proactive and gets a ton of stuff done, in an almost superhuman way - I am strongly suspecting a co-morbidity of Bipolar. Never thought about it like that before, but the length of time that he stays depressed, and the alternating bouts of mania tell me there's possibly more to it than just BPD. He once decided on a whim that he wanted the entire house to have new pine floors. (We had perfectly ok wood floors already.) He stood up in the middle of breakfast and began pulling up the floorboards up with a pry bar. I got clear, haha.

Within THREE DAYS he had single-handedly re-floored the entire house with zero assistance. It's an old house with some extremely challenging angles. He worked them out on paper, laid them out,  and there isn't an asymmetrical detail anywhere. It was... .astounding. I still love those floors. They're gorgeous. But when I really think about how they got there... .wow. He's truly brilliant... .and truly mad. 

I really do thank you all. What you guys have been saying makes so much sense. I'll apply it and hope he returns to some kind of baseline soon. This is the worst episode we've ever had, and the first time the kids or the ex have had any involvement. I've done a good job of being a "shield" so that nobody else is affected. But that's not really realistic, is it? BPD is like a tsunami.

[BasementDweller]

Update:

Had the dinner chat with the ex yesterday, and it was really therapeutic. It was really re-energizing to be reminded that I once had a "normal" relationship with a person, and he reminded me that I haven't done anything to deserve this, and I didn't cause it. That helped, as it does when everyone here tells me that. 

I stayed out quite late last night, getting home close to midnight. When I got back to the house I really was fearing he'd changed the locks, or left one of his "hate letters" that he prints and leaves on the kitchen table, telling me how terrible I am. There was none of that. He usually goes to bed fairly early, but I saw he had waited up for me. Still in the basement, but wide awake with the light on. As soon as he heard me come home, he shut the light off and went to bed.

Typically, one of the "things" in our relationship is that I love to cook, and am a very good cook if I may toot my own horn a little. He has told me I am a "phenomenal" cook. I love to create new recipes and try stuff out on him, and he loves it. I have not cooked him anything in a while because he won't let me. I realize he punishes himself when he dysregulates, and deprives himself of all the nice things I do for him. He won't accept any kindness from me.

When he gets REALLY deep down in the rabbit hole, he won't even cook for himself - and he's a decent cook too. As per our usual routine, I stocked the kitchen and pantry last weekend. He has a house full of REALLY good food. But when he gets like this he will eat cold beans out of a can, or go to the crappy dive pizza place down the street and eat it out of the cardboard box. His diet gets terrible. I used to try to rescue, but I won't do that anymore.

Last night, the requisite half eaten waxy pizza was on the counter still in the box. Not put in the fridge, not cleaned up after. Just left in the box on the counter. He's usually very neat and puts the leftovers in the fridge, and recycles the cardboard. He also had three cans of beer. It was a "martyr meal" and I know he wanted me to see it. I did. But I just left it there. Went to bed and left for work this morning. Waxy pizza box was left where it was.

He's really at rock bottom - but I will not rescue. Thanks for setting me straight on that guys. He's gotta pull himself together.

[Enabler]

I absolutely did not react. Not even a flinch. Not even a cursory glance at him. And for the first time in... .forever... .it didn't even get to me. It was sad, but it didn't *hurt*. That's not a rational person talking, and I can't take it personally.

That's radical acceptance   

Maybe before you knew what was going on, you had the education but you had not 100% accepted that it was actual real, actually happening and not from the land of unicorns and fairies. You thought it could be a little bit or even a big bit YOU. There was a glimmer of truth in what he was saying, that element of doubt was there.

THIS IS REMARKABLE, well done you.

It used to hurt me that my niceties like "Good morning" and "Night night sleep tight" were either ignored of sniped at, now it doesn't so much. I am being nice and kind and her mood DOES NOT equal my mood. That is for her to learn.

[BasementDweller]

That's radical acceptance   

Hi, Enabler! Thank you for that encouragement. Yes, I finally did radically accept that this is his problem and I never wanted to bicker or hurt our relationship. If he wants to do that, he's on his own. I have to enjoy my life and be happy - like I used to be. I was once a relatively social and happy person. Introverted, yes, but I had my little circle of friends and I had confidence, and even fun sometimes when I wasn't being a workaholic.   That slipped away over the last two years, as his behavior has eroded me. I saw myself in the mirror the other day, and I looked pale, tired, and my eyes are always puffy from crying daily. I got angry and thought, "How dare he not appreciate me? I know I'm a good and kind person." And something in me snapped and I just decided "No more. He can rot in the basement and miss out on my company. I'll hang out with people who like me."

So I went out last night and had fun. For the first time in a very, very long time. I'm exhausted at work today, but I feel a bit lighter in the soul. Even if he doesn't like me right now, that doesn't mean I'm not deserving of being liked. I would love for him to snap out of his funk and start enjoying these beautiful, sunny days that have finally come to our little corner of Europe. To grill outdoors and work in the garden. But I won't twist his arm. I'll do those things alone, or with other people. I've wasted too much time and too many days feeling bad because he felt bad, but wouldn't cooperate or collaborate with me to have him feel better. It serves no purpose, however, so I'm done with that.

One of the wisest things I have heard talked about on this site is that I cannot control what he says, does, thinks, or feels. I can only control how I react to it. I wish I had figured that out two years ago, but better late than never. I probably could have saved us a both a lot of trouble if I didn't react to him, but I now have a thick enough skin to use that tool. We'll see how this goes. I hope the extinction burst isn't fatal, but if it is... .that I have to deal with that.

[RolandOfEld]

Learning Radical Acceptance was a huge pivot moment for me in my situation. I was holding back on a lot of actions I could take to help myself because I wasn't quite ready to accept that my wife was sick, that this was happening. Once I made it my reality, however unpleasant it was, it allowed me to do things to genuinely help myself including:

- setting up a secret account with emergency money
- speaking to a counselor privately without her consent (using my emergency money)
- talk to a lawyer to get a legal picture of my situation here if I decided to separate
- finally tell my family about the situation, repairing some broken relationships and gaining their support
- involving police when her behavior crossed serious boundaries, such as stealing / destroying my things or hitting me

It was through gaining back some control over my life and creating a support network that I had then had the strength to encourage her to seek treatment, which she is in the early stages of doing now.

So, one step leads to another, and another, and so forth. 

~ROE

[BasementDweller]

ROE, those are all really good ideas. I'm glad to hear that your wife is finally starting treatment. Hopefully she is able to improve and find better ways to cope with distress than acts of violence or destruction of property. That has to be upsetting and scary for you.

Fortunately, he and I have separate bank accounts at different banks, as this was the case before we met. He has no access to my funds nor I to his. We also have no problem with seeking separate counseling. I haven't talked to a lawyer yet, but consulted with some of the agencies here in the country I live in to get a clear picture of the legalities. I have informed my sister of my situation, and she talked to me about setting up the "go bag" and other things in case it gets ugly and I have to get out. I also talked to a friend here, and she has offered to take me in for a while if it comes to that.

One thing I guess I could say I am fortunate about is that he is not controlling in the same way that some BPDs are. Other than the time he "disappeared" the car keys, he doesn't try to snoop into my things, take my money, or tell me I can't go out with friends or even my ex-boyfriend. That's not the norm with most BPD, but other than saying there are better men out there, and I probably want to find a nicer/better guy, or I'd be better off with a better man, he isn't overly jealous or nasty in that way. I actually do not fear he will prevent me from leaving, I fear the opposite. He will put on a dramatic display of trying to force me out, knowing it's not that easy. He sometimes holds my immigration status over my head and says, "you have nowhere to go." (Not true, I'm a resourceful grown-up and I have made it this far in life.) When he sees I'm not crying and begging for forgiveness, he lets up and retreats. His MO is not to try to keep me against my will, but try to make me believe he will discard me so that I will stay put out of fear. I think he feels in control if he thinks I will beg him to stay. But it's backfiring right now, because I am no longer responding to the taunts.

This is new for me, and for him as well, so I am really wondering how this is all gonna go. But I feel his choke hold over me loosening and vanishing now, and that's a whole new element to the relationship.

[RolandOfEld]

He sometimes holds my immigration status over my head and says, "you have nowhere to go." (Not true, I'm a resourceful grown-up and I have made it this far in life.

BD it's interesting to learn that you are also an immigrant. I am an American living in Asia with an Asian partner. I have been discovering there are quite a few of us here in this situation. Dealing with BPD while living as an expat can be a particular challenge, culturally, linguistically, and in the worst cases, legally. Good to hear your immigrant status doesn't pose any dangers for you.

Is your sister in the same country by any chance? Or are you on your own out there family-wise?

~ROE   

[BasementDweller]

I'm here on my own, and my immigration status actually is largely dependent on him right now. If he goes too far off the rails it can become a real problem, and possibly legally get quite ugly. I am hoping he will eventually come to his senses and have it NOT come to that. I do have options in that case, but exercising them would create a real sh!tstorm.

Fortunately, I am in a country where English is widely spoken, and culturally it's not too different from the U.S. where I am from. I mean it's different - but not shockingly so. I can navigate the system well here myself, and lived here alone before meeting him for some time. The legal battles would be the most troubling aspect, but I suspect even at his worst dysregulation, he knows that would be disastrous for him, if he let it go that far. He is already in hot water due to a social services call to his kids' mother regarding his last meltdown. He's very scared right now, and if he could get himself back to baseline, he might remember that I have always been there for him as an ally and not an enemy.

My sister lives in the U.S., BTW.

I think this situation is very common - immigrants living with BPDs. I even suspect some of them might be drawn to us because we ARE in a vulnerable position so they can garner more control over us, since they know the local language, laws, and we often end up living in their homes, thus being more dependent on them than a citizen of their own country might be. That has to be appealing to someone with abandonment fears. I think saying "You have nowhere to go" is a way of comforting himself, rather than hurting me in a weird way. Because I'm a grown woman and have moved all over the globe by myself. Deep down he knows I am capable of surviving, but it comforts him to believe I am not, and I NEED him.

[Enabler]

BD, do you see similarities in the way that he tries to make you feel like you aren't capable of leaving him and the way that he was treated as a child? Do you feel this is a learnt behavior? This current period seems to be a reaction to (among a lot of other things such as opening old wounds) you showing him that you could, if you so chose to leave at any time. At the same time as showing him that you could, is it also important (if you want to) illustrate that you are choosing NOT TO LEAVE because you have hope for the relationship and hope for him. He needs (and this is the tricky part for him) to get comfortable with the concept of you being free to leave at any time but choosing not to.

My W is slightly different in that she has a perception that the cage door is closed tight and I am keeping her captive... .but the cage door is wide open and I actively encourage her to come and go as she pleases physically and mentally (and always have done). Her captivity is fantasy rather than in reality. I'm the one that feels held captive minding the children when she goes out every night or held hostage to the chaos she is creating in the marital relationship.

You mentioned you met up with your ex last night. Did you tell him this? Does he feel comfortable with that or expect you to run off with him?

[BasementDweller]

Enabler,

Yes, I have tried to reassure him in an easy going way that I am free to move about as I please but "I believe in us" as was talked about earlier and I choose to be with him. I definitely do believe this is a learned behavior from his abusive upbringing, and he did tell me that when his mother dysregulated and became abusive with him and his sister, he went into his room and stayed there because he was afraid of her disapproval, and just tried to stay out of her way. He went to nobody else for comfort, and had to self soothe. He said that the only thing that made him feel better was when she calmed down for some length of time. Hence his festering in the downstairs bedroom in the dark when he feels bad. I've learned to let him do that.

I did not tell him I met my ex last night, but not out of omission. We haven't spoken at all to each other. He does know that I am still friends with my ex and do occasionally meet him for dinner. He knew of this when he and I first met, and has actually never had a problem with it. He is aware that my ex is very low key and rational and has a calming effect on me, and oddly enough (or perhaps thankfully) he completely accepts that I meet and talk with him when I feel anxious. If he ever were to say this made him uncomfortable I would respect that. My ex also has a partner whom he has lived with for a few years. Our meetings really are not at all scandalous, and only take place in public restaurants or cafes.

Even with the BPD he's not overtly jealous. A little insecure at times, but no more than a "regular" boyfriend. He occasionally asks me if I might want to be with a "better man" or an "easier man to get along with" and did ask with concern about a male work colleague of mine recently. (Our company just moved to a new building and I now share a small office with a man about my own age.) He kind of teasingly asked me if he was a handsome guy and should he be worried. I replied that I wasn't assessing him for attractiveness because I am in a relationship, and I respect that, and no, he should not be worried. My colleague is just a male human I share an office with. I'm there to work, not to look for dates. He totally accepted that and let it be. Largely, he actually trusts me. But I'm pretty damn adamant about loyalty, and how I can put up with a lot, but infidelity is a deal breaker, and there's no negotiating after that. He knows I'm serious about this and do not play that. (Thankfully, that's one area he feels secure and trusting with me - small victory!)

Today I got home from work to find him still in the basement and all the shades drawn, the house dismally dark, and the rest of last night's pizza eaten. It's an absolutely gorgeous day, really warm, the sun is blazing, and he was still wallowing in the dark at 5:30 PM. He politely said "Hi" to me. I put on a sundress and went outside to water the garden, totally NOT rescuing or trying to connect. I just also said "Hi". He got up and put his shoes on and went for a walk. Good. I was happy to see that. I hope he feels a little better after. We're just in a holding pattern now. But he's not raging. I can deal with that. 

I totally understand what you mean about being held hostage by the chaos. I never know when plans are going to get ruined, or I am going to lose days on end of my life being shunned and not having a partner. Now that the weather has turned and the garden is blooming and it's BBQ time, I really miss him. I LOVE doing that stuff. WE have always loved doing that stuff. Just being outdoors and enjoying the weather - even in the winter, or on not so nice days. Typically we do that together. So lately I have been having a beer or lunch with colleagues or other friends. (I kind of have to force myself to do this because I'm really introverted and not overly social.) But it's been helping. Our new building has a magnificent tenth floor rooftop terrace and I decided to organize an afterwork party next Friday with the help of another lady I work with. We're gonna bring snacks and beer and live it up. The staff is super excited about it, and can't talk about much else. I'm kind of starting to realize that despite my relatively withdrawn nature, people like me, and enjoy my company. I was starting to doubt that. The last time we had a rooftop "afterwork" I left early after one beer because I was worried he was in a bad mood or might want dinner but not be cooking for himself. Now I look back on that and think he's a grown man who can take care of himself, and he often doesn't appreciate what I do anyway, so I will now start living for me. So I'm going to take care of me, now, for the first time in over two years. It's either going to help or cause an irreversible extinction burst.

But my decision is made.

[Radcliff]

BD,

You have come a long way in the last few months!  Your determination to live your life and enjoy it, open to his company but not rescuing, is fantastic.  I'm not an expert, but if I had to guess one metric for whether a "non" is able to continue in a relationship with a pwBPD, it would be the diminishment of self.  If the "non" is able to find enough outlets for self care, relationships with others, fulfilling activities, etc. then I believe they are much more likely to be able to sustain the relationship.  If not, then the self keeps getting eroded, and it's unsustainable.  Doing what you have done takes real courage.  It is so easy to not do it year after year out of fear.

WW

[RolandOfEld]

So I'm going to take care of me, now, for the first time in over two years. It's either going to help or cause an irreversible extinction burst.

BD, first of all, awesome! So impressed with the efforts you are making to take of yourself. I suggested Netflix, and you went for what sounds like the best rooftop party ever. I need to up my own standards.   

Regarding extinction bursts, they are never pretty and often very difficult to get through, but I do not think they are a bad thing. The fact that the pwBPD is breaking down in this way means we are sticking to a boundary. In my experience with my wife, the situation showed some slight improvement following each burst, e.g. she stopped making certain demands she knew I wouldn't fulfill.   

Now if I could only get through one of my toddler's tantrums... .

Keep up the great work!

~ROE

[BasementDweller]

BD,

You have come a long way in the last few months!  Your determination to live your life and enjoy it, open to his company but not rescuing, is fantastic.  I'm not an expert, but if I had to guess one metric for whether a "non" is able to continue in a relationship with a pwBPD, it would be the diminishment of self.  If the "non" is able to find enough outlets for self care, relationships with others, fulfilling activities, etc. then I believe they are much more likely to be able to sustain the relationship.  If not, then the self keeps getting eroded, and it's unsustainable.  Doing what you have done takes real courage.  It is so easy to not do it year after year out of fear.

WW

WW, I totally agree with this, and I'm kicking myself for not catching onto this two years ago! I wasted so much time reacting to BP dysregulation and losing myself trying to rescue him. At this point I am worried that the relationship is irreparably damaged because I lost way too much of myself in all the drama and let it go on far too long. But I really just didn't know what I was dealing with - or HOW to deal with it. I guess my wake-up call came recently when I very calmly explained to him that all this turmoil was literally destroying my sanity and I felt as if I was going to drop from exhaustion and anxiety, and he just stared at me with a complete lack of empathy then went back to his video game as if I told him I had a mild head-ache and was going to take an aspirin. I realized then that I don't have the luxury of being able to lose my sanity. Because someone in our house has to be sane.

So self care it is, because he's genuinely not capable of any kind of support right now.

[Enabler]

The last time we had a rooftop "afterwork" I left early after one beer because I was worried he was in a bad mood or might want dinner but not be cooking for himself. Now I look back on that and think he's a grown man who can take care of himself, and he often doesn't appreciate what I do anyway, so I will now start living for me.

Funny you should say that. The number of evenings I have cut short, or held back because I was concerned there was going to be an emotional fallout from staying longer, having more fun or almost seeming like I had a good time... .makes me chuckle at my stupidity, my W wouldn't think this way, why should I?

[BasementDweller]

ROE, haha... .well I have never been much of a movie watcher, as I get a bit bored with "screen time". That's another huge bone of contention with me and my pwBPD. Screen time, whether movies or video games is his escape from reality (an all too frequently used one, I'm afraid) and he always took it deeply personally that I wasn't interested in these things. I mean, really, really personally. The fact that I had a different opinion about what I like to do for entertainment devastates him, and he frequently starts a conflict over it.

The extinction burst thing is new to me and I'm still trying to navigate it. His usual tactic when he wants to get under my skin is to threaten to kick me out, then taunt me that I have nowhere to go. Normally, I defend myself (I know, I know) but this time I tried to set a date and time when we could either sit down and discuss the possible contingency plan for me moving, or address what it was we needed to work on if I were to stay. I also did tell him like I said above that he would have to start the legwork of relocating me, as this was his suggestion and not mine, and I have a job and adult responsibilities to deal with - those are my immediate concerns right now, not uprooting an entire household.

He refuses to have this discussion, appears to be doing no leg work, will not talk to me at all about ANY solution other than to say "Hi" when I get home and lock himself in the basement for days on end, leaving only to go get occasional take-out. In other words - he will not address or face anything. Is this an extinction burst? I also suspect he doesn't have the wherewithal to actually execute any legitimate problem solving activities or plans.

Enabler - Yup. I have lost out on so much of life to try to do damage control - which of course, with BPD is an exercise in futility. I should have just been enjoying my life and letting him take care of himself, or at least trying to. It will be interesting to see what will happen when I stop trying to rescue. I used to still cook dinner for him even when he was in a total state. I thought it was helping. This week I have not done anything of the sort. I cook only for myself and say nothing to him. He has eaten only takeout - not even cooking for himself.

I left him a note this morning to please refill the birdfeeders - a task he is usually meticulous about and enjoys. They have been empty for days. I wonder if he will do it?

This is all new to me. Not rescuing him and seeing him become withdrawn and a little bit self neglectful is hard for me. But I need to cut the cord for both of our sakes.

[RolandOfEld]

The extinction burst thing is new to me and I'm still trying to navigate it. His usual tactic when he wants to get under my skin is to threaten to kick me out, then taunt me that I have nowhere to go.

Whether or not he actually has the power to do this, this is classic controlling behavior and very not OK even if its unlikely he would follow through. For my wife, it was either destroying my work clothes, stealing my cash card, or bailing early in the morning so I had to stay home with the kids. All were intended to keep me from going to work, e.g. the thing keeping our household of 4 financially alive. In other words, to control me.

You may have mentioned in earlier posts, and it sounds unlikely he would follow through, but does he have any real legal authority to kick you out, either with regards to the mortgage / rental agreement or your immigration status? May I ask, when you offer to discuss the possibility of you moving out, is this something you genuinely want to follow up if push came to shove? I ask as someone who has actually let myself be kicked out once before, over nothing... .

~ROE

[Enabler]

Wonderful work BD, wonderful.

It's unclear if you're already doing this or not and you're always one step ahead of me... .There's one thing not cooking for him, and there's another thing saying/putting on the note "I'm cooking rabbit ragu pappardelle, let me know by midday if you would like any, love BD x". Showing love and kindness is a good thing, these are things that good, strong and powerful people do. You are showing him what a good relationship looks like, what good behaviour looks like, without accepting or being involved in his bad behaviour.

":)inner is up here, come and get it"

[BasementDweller]

ROE,

I'm really sorry to hear that you have had to endure similar - it completely disrupts your stability, productivity at work, etc. It takes your focus away from where it needs to be.

The housing/migration situation is very complex but I will try to break it down into two parts.

Housing: Technically, yes, he can "kick me out" - but not in one fell swoop. He owns the house we live in, having purchased it himself before we met. After we started dating, he asked me to move in with him, and I hesitated at first as it was a bit sudden. We had only been dating for four months. I asked him if I might extend my apartment rental for another 6 months to a year in order to see where the relationship was headed and to not move too fast. He managed to convince me that it would be much more cost effective and better for us if I moved in with him. I now see in retrospect what was happening there.  So, I moved in with him about two years ago. I pay half the mortgage, living costs and food. I have also split the cost of any new furniture, paint, home improvement items, etc,. We have split everything down the middle since day one. I am registered as living at this address with him as his domestic partner. In the event he truly does want to force me out, legally, there is a three month grace period after a written notice of eviction - for anyone. This goes for landlords renting an apartment, a homeowner renting a room to someone, or a person kicking their partner out of the house he owns. The only real effort he has made to set this in motion is to print a hate letter and leave it on the table for me telling me I must move out by said date (three weeks from then) because he doesn't love me anymore and I'm a terrible person, etc. It was not an eviction notice, it was a personal attack, and also not legally dated. Since he was drunk and also being abusive at the time, I threw it in the trash. This was about two weeks ago. He has not brought it up again. If I really do reach the end of my rope with him and he cannot return to baseline, or the abuse escalates, then yes, I do have to consider leaving him. But I am not there yet, and this is an extremely complex situation. Mainly because of the housing and migration issues. There is a MASSIVE housing shortage in this area, and accommodation is almost impossible to get. In certain circumstances (rare) one can get a sublet on fairly short notice, usually at three times the market rental value. A one room apartment, sublet in this area, costs three times more than a mortgage on a four bedroom house. No exaggeration.

Migration: I originally moved to this country as a working student and had a visa for such. As my visa was getting ready to expire, he and I applied for me to remain here as a resident based on us being cohabitating partners. (Common law spouse is recognized here.)  I currently do not have a valid residence permit to live here now, but am allowed to remain here, live here, and work here while the domestic partner application is pending. Due to all of Europe being in a massive migration crisis, processing residence permits for people who already live together and have homes and jobs and are not asylum seekers or war refugees is not a priority. The wait time for approval of my type of residence permit is two and a half years. I have only been waiting 11 months. HOWEVER: Approval of the permit is dependent on me being in a relationship with this man, and living at the same address. If either of those things change, and the immigration department is notified, they will cancel the application and I will be deported.

Now, my partner knows this, and while he repeatedly threatens to kick me out, he does not do the one thing that would assure my removal - notify immigration. He hasn't done so yet. He may be aware, even while totally dysregulated that if he does that - he cannot undo it. If I get deported, he can't decide to "reconnect" when he feels better. I will be on the other side of the world. Gone forever. This time for real.

I do know he uses this all as a measure of control. I CAN choose to leave him, but logistically it would be extremely hard. And if I leave the residence, my entire life is uprooted as I will have to leave the country.

There is one other detail though. In the event he does force me out, leaving me no other choice, or contacts migration to cancel our application, I can petition to stay in the country based on the fact that my partner is abusive. At that point I must provide any documentation I have of the abuse (Two police reports, one where they documented my bruises, three hospital visits, and all our records from therapy where our T identified his BPD, and also told him he was being abusive in the sessions.) There is more than enough on file. Migration will then file to have him investigated by the authorities. He will likely then be sentenced, and I will be granted residence based on an emergency case: my domestic partner is abusive and using my immigration status as a means of control. The migration department does not take this lightly. He will be in serious hot water if this is the route we go, and I do NOT want to have to exercise that option.

This is why I am hoping that he can return to baseline and resolve this is a civil way. If we make it through long enough to have my long term residence permit approved, and later on down the road we cannot make this relationship work, then yes, I am free to move about the EU, not dependent on him for residence or anything else. This is my home now, and I wish to stay in this country where my friends and my job are and I have lived for three and a half years. It's not just a matter of him "breaking my heart" if he kicks me out. It would completely upend my entire existence and destroy my life, and least for a very long time. I would lose literally everything, My home, my job, and all my belongings as I can't carry my half of a four bedroom home in a suitcase across the Atlantic. The saddest part is, this is not me being stubborn. I really do want this relationship to work, and I really do "believe in us". I never wanted it to come to this.

I don't believe he is aware of the option for me to file an abuse case with the migration department. I have not brought it up, nor do I wish to threaten him with it. I don't ever want to have to use that option. I will only do so if he forces my hand and leaves me no other choice. It will kill me to do so, because I do not wish to have him investigated and possibly arrested/sentenced. I do not want his sons to see their father disgraced. I am doing everything I can to not have it come to this. My hope is that he gets proper treatment and we are able to remain civil to each other. Whatever the final outcome of our r/s.

Enabler: I'd never cook a rabbit!   And he is lately refusing anything I offer, so I am not bothering right now. Maybe later if he softens up a bit. Right now, everything I say is attacked. I'm laying low.

[BasementDweller]

Update: Arrived home from work today to find the bird feeders still empty. The door was unlocked and he had moved from the basement to the couch. Not avoiding me. I walked in, said "Hi" and got a "Hi" back. I asked if we had any bird seed. He said "Look by the door."

He had brought the birdseed in from the work shed but not filled the feeders. I said "thanks!" and refilled them. (Not rescuing him this time. I did it for the birds.) 

After that I had a long hot shower, a nice phone call to a friend in the U.S., and went into the bedroom and laid down. No rescue, no dinner talk, no nothing.

We have a huge crisis at my job right now, as four people from my department have resigned suddenly and simultaneously (I was notified of this today), leaving me, who has worked there 11 months the most senior person in the department. (It's a tough job and people burn out easily.) So I have to pitch a proposal to our director tomorrow morning about how to rearrange the workflow with a skeleton crew, and still get done what we need to get done, and ask her for allocation of funds to hire some new staff - and sell the hell out of myself, because all the departments want/need more funding. I had an epiphany today when I realized that I have a rather important government job, a lot of responsibility, and my department is in the sh!t. Relationship drama is actually not my priority now and I have more important priorities. My job = my livelihood. And I'm proud of my work. I've been letting him take that away from me for far too long by stressing me the hell out and jeopardizing my productivity.

The rooftop party is still on, but there is work to be done in the meantime. In other words... .my focus is on what's important. I don't have the luxury of laying in the basement in my underwear playing "Call of Duty" on the X-Box for days on end.  So it just got a hell of a lot easier to accept "Radical Acceptance". He can do what he does. I have to do what I have to do.

ROE - how did you handle it when your wife was acting out so bad that you might have lost your job? I just realized that this is SO NOT OK.

[Radcliff]

BD, when my wife had dysregulated, I learned to give her space, but also to stay tuned for signs that she was ready to reconnect.  For example, she might say "Why are you in the other room?"  I would think to myself, "Well, because yesterday you said I was a bad father and you wanted to divorce me, so I'm avoiding you," but then I'd go test the waters and sit in the same room with her.  If it went downhill quickly, I'd leave.  Often, that was the start of a new white phase.  This is just one scenario.  There were various ways for us to get back into a good phase, but I had to consciously be at just the right distance, not too far away or totally ignoring her.  There must be a way out.

Does your partner give off cues when he is ready to reconnect?  Is it worth trying a nurturing behavior every so often to test the waters?

And I agree with you 100% on the work issues.  You must defend that turf.  Just curious, if you have an important government job, can't you get a different kind of residency permit filed with sponsorship of your employer?

WW

[BasementDweller]

And I agree with you 100% on the work issues.  You must defend that turf.  Just curious, if you have an important government job, can't you get a different kind of residency permit filed with sponsorship of your employer?

Hi, WW! Yes, that's possible but very complicated to switch permits in the limbo period. That would also include having to leave the country for a spell. Even work permits are taking a VERY long time. One can only apply from within the country if they have a still valid permit like I did when I applied for domestic partnership. With the situation at work now, I can't leave the country to apply for a work permit and wait months for approval. This might be an option later on when the staffing crisis is solved and I have enough seniority to be able to get permission to take a leave like that, but with the situation the way it is now... .it's not possible for a number of reasons. At least not within the next several months. It's in my contingency plan for later though.

Yes, my partner will typically send signals when he's ready to reconnect, similar to your wife. Asking why I'm in the other room, or popping his head in to see what I'm doing.

What's really rough is this is the longest and deepest dysregulation I have ever seen from him. I'm sure something is triggering him regarding our relationship (the counseling sessions, our T talking to him about his BPD, and me seriously considering leaving) and also there is something going on with his sons that he is wanting me to believe is at least partly my fault - but I know it isn't. The last time, and every time I have interacted with the kids we have gotten along great. Never even any tension between me and them, and I don't show that I'm upset with their dad when they are there. Even if I'm quickly drying tears and splashing cold water on my face when I see them coming up the street. I have made 100% certain to never try to make their father look bad. He's free to do that himself, however.  But he has been in some sort of state for a month now, and there's more to it than what I can see. He's having a falling out with his kids - somehow - and I think they are catching on to that fact that there is something seriously wrong with him. My gut instinct tells me he is feeling deep shame and depression right now, and at least with the subject of his kids... .I don't want to go there. Knowing I see what is going on would make everything 100% worse.

The last time I tried to initiate a kind gesture, I suggested to him that maybe we relax that evening, no heavy discussions and watch the hockey game. (I have less than zero interest in sports, and the thought of having to sit and stare at a screen for hours watching a bunch of grown men fighting over a puck is painful to say the least.) But he's been watching hockey lately, and so I offered, because he's always miserable that I don't like to watch TV with him. He politely refused and said he had to go to bed early. He played video games in the basement for about 5 hours THEN went to bed. The following night, he left the house when I got home to go eat take out alone. I went to bed very early to avoid seeing him when he got home.

Last night, I got home and he was on the couch, with the hockey game on. You saw the exchange re: bird seed. I had to say hi first. After refilling the feeders, I initiated no interaction with him, and skipped dinner so I didn't have to pass by him again.

To be honest, I do not want to reconnect right now. He has used the silent treatment, withholding of affection, physical separation, you name it - against me as punishment for two years now, and it absolutely destroyed anything and everything I ever believed about love and how it's supposed to work.

Every time I needed a gesture of kindness or a shred of human compassion, he refused it with a triumphant sneer on his face. Now that the fog has lifted - it turns my stomach to think about it. He used the fact that I love him as a tool of abuse. I realize now that I am afraid of him. Anyone who can be that cruel, with a smile (my T pointed this out in one of our sessions, and it made my blood run cold) I don't trust. My biggest fear right now is he'll reconnect for a few seconds just to yank the rug out from underneath me. I'm being very cautious. My gestures of kindness have run out. The next one has to come from him. Overtly. And even then, I'm treading lightly. I am on my last straw. He starts with a new therapist and CBT on May 21, (it's all we have near where we live) and I will observe from a distance how he is over the next couple of months. I've already stopped reacting to his verbal abuse so I won't be escalating anything. If I don't see some legitimate efforts to even recognize what he has been doing and take some responsibility for his own actions and part in all this... .I don't think I can do this anymore.

No, I'm not ready to go to the "conflicted board" yet.  BUT... .I'm in a holding pattern. I am still clinging to a tiny thread of hope that this too shall pass and that he might come to his senses - at least as well as HE can. Will he always be unpredictable and difficult? I'm certain of it. But I don't need him to be perfect. Just a little more human than he has been lately. If he makes a kind gesture, I will also be kind. But very cautiously.

[Radcliff]

  BD, you totally predicted my question about the Conflicted board.  I guess the question is whether the timing of your moves on the relationship match the timing of your immigration issues, and if not, whether you have a plan to bridge the gap.  It's really unfortunate that you have to deal with both at the same time.  I completely understand your hesitancy to invest now, given how you are feeling, but wonder if this could drive things in a direction and on a time scale that doesn't work with the immigration issues.  I'm just asking prompting questions, I don't have opinions on what you should do.

WW

[BasementDweller]

I'm not conflicted in the fact that I am still holding out for a happy ending. I want so badly for this to work, and for my partner to be able to be happy and enjoying life - with me. I'm going to stick it out with the genuine desire to have it work. He and I really do need a little space right now, but I do not want to let this die in the water. Until it got this bad - I wasn't worried about the immigration thing. We were just waiting for the permit to be processed and it wasn't really too stressful. He was really supportive and helpful with all the paperwork preparation, and when we got a letter from the department asking for additional information, he got really worried that they'd send me away, and was chomping at the bit to write them a letter explaining that I am a part of this family and I must be allowed to stay! (It was no panic, they just wanted verification of finances - it's standard protocol.) That was only about two weeks ago.

I guess now that he is unraveling, I'm forced to go into "survival mode" because he's currently not in a good place to offer any kind of support or participation in anything important. I'm keeping my distance because I can't handle any more chaos right now - especially with the situation at my job. That's my first priority because that's how I stay alive, fed, and sheltered.

It kills me to know he is in this kind of pain and it must be hell inside his head. For that reason, I need to take care of myself first and foremost, because if I unravel too, there's nobody left steering the ship.

[RolandOfEld]

BD, wow, you've made some amazing emotional progression since you started this thread. The fog has indeed lifted.

I'll put the emotional component of your situation aside for the moment to address your question about work.

Most of the boundaries I had to set in my marriage centered around my job. My wife has been mostly at home with S5 and D2 for the last 4 years and is trying to get back to work. Noting I took 1 six month paternity leave during that period and a 1 year leave that cost me my job. It was when I want back to work that the BPD really hit overdrive as her resentment towards me for having a job exploded (she thought it was my fault she was at home). She would sneak out of the house so I had to stay home with the kids, call to harass me at work nonstop, make empty suicide threats, and on two occasions destroyed most of my work clothing.

At first I did blame myself for her situation and let these things happen. One day I just got up and ran home in the middle of a major project and my manager finally cornered me and asked what the heck was going on. I knew my job was at risk from all the sudden leaves and disruptions.  

Once I learned about BPD and wised up, I started taking action. I bought more clothes, stashed some at work, and set up a secret emergency account. If I sensed she might disappear the next day or she had threatened it, I got up and left the house earlier than she could while she was still asleep. If she called to harass me I turned off my mobile and unplugged my work phone. The next time she stole my clothes I called the police over.    

Again, the most important thing here was mindset. She would yell at me and say my job was more important to me than her. This is not true, but it was insanely important that I keep my job considering I'm supporting the four of us. I kept this firmly in mind along with the clear understanding that I was not responsible for her situation. Things have since improved and it's been some time since she really messed with my work.

You're totally right to put your work first right now. You can't discuss relationship problems while you're starving.

~ROE