Dragon72's marriage counseling continues...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I would set yourself a limit of a couple more sessions before directly raising these issues with the therapist.

Perhaps each of you can have more individual time.

Once an "issue" has been identified that is blocking the relationship from healing... .progress either needs to be made or... .

I get it... the "or" is unpleasant to think about.

FF

[formflier]

I would set yourself a limit of a couple more sessions before directly raising these issues with the therapist.

Perhaps each of you can have more individual time.

Once an "issue" has been identified that is blocking the relationship from healing... .progress either needs to be made or... .

I get it... the "or" is unpleasant to think about.

FF

[Dragon72]

We've done 9 sessions so far (two of them individual - 1 each).

The T said near the beginning that we'd set a limit of 10, but nothing has been mentioned of that since.

Yesterday was getting circular right up to the end of the session, so we kinda left in a hurry to stop the conversation getting ridiculous. "You don't trust me even when I show you I'm trustworthy!", "I can't trust what you show me to prove you're trustworthy because you're untrustworthy!"

So we left in a hurry and forgot to set a date for the next T session.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Hi Dragon.  I'm late to the meeting here
But, what are your T goals, if any?
Are you trying to rebuild marriage, manage the day to day better, or see for yourself - and then have someone else tell you she's nuts - and you can leave?
All options are fine, I just am trying to get a gist of your direction.
Once you see your goal, how to proceed will be apparent.  And, there's not harm in seeing a L about specifics in divorce and separation.  I did, and that kind of kept me married and hanging-on, for financial and child custody reasons.  It's better to know ahead of time. 
As I say, fix the leaking roof when it's sunny outside.

[formflier]

Hi Dragon.  I'm late to the meeting here  
As I say, fix the leaking roof when it's sunny outside.

That's interesting... .  I like that...

So... .what did the T have to say... about what your wife had to say?  Or did she address it?

I would continue to set more T appointments, but with an internal limit for you on how many "circles" you are willing to go around before asking.

"What specifically can you advise me to do to be open about family finances?"

"What specifically can my wife do in order to be more trusting of family finances?"

My guess is that individual work is in order before attempting any more joint work (after a couple more joint sessions)

Also... .at any point has T or you asked your wife... "What specifically do you see as the solution... "  and listen... .

Hopefully let the T prod her to do/say something more than "he's dishonest"

FF

[Dragon72]

I think I'm just about ready throw the towel in with the marriage.

"What specifically can you advise me to do to be open about family finances?" I am as open as I could possibly be. As open as a husband should be with his wife.

"What specifically can my wife do in order to be more trusting of family finances?" How about starting by assuming I'm innocent until PROVEN otherwise?

I'm done with taking the blame when it's her with the skewed approach to reality.  I agree I have my own mental issues to deal with: specifically the feeling that I should put up with all of her abuse. And yes it is abuse.

You've caught me on a very angry day.  I'm clinically fed up.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Then Clinically fed up it is then
I know that in my case, once I was able to look at a list of behaviors and see the definitions form that I was in an abusive relationship (and not wholly innocent myself) it changes my mindset.  Being able to identify as an abuse victim, and hopefully turn that to abuse survivor - no longer a victim, is game changing.

[flourdust]

Hi, Dragon. I think you are seeing what many of us have experienced when trying marriage counseling with a BPD spouse. It's helpful for illuminating the problems caused by distorted thinking and emotions, but not for solving them.

It's a bit validating to have this outside person (the T) see the same problems that you see, right? But, you didn't go to counseling to have some outsider pat you on the back and say "You're right, she's nuts!" That doesn't get you anywhere.

Can the therapist encourage your wife to enter a DBT program? That might be the best possible outcome from MC -- to get a referral backed by a (possibly) trusted expert for a therapeutic intervention that might actually help.

[formflier]

It's a bit validating to have this outside person (the T) see the same problems that you see, right? But, you didn't go to counseling to have some outsider pat you on the back and say "You're right, she's nuts!" That doesn't get you anywhere.

Can the therapist encourage your wife to enter a DBT program? That might be the best possible outcome from MC -- to get a referral backed by a (possibly) trusted expert for a therapeutic intervention that might actually help.

That was the general purpose of those questions.

Perhaps the MC would even put that in writing... .I think Dragon should do (fill in the blank) and then try MC again in 6 months.  I think Mrs Dragon should do (fill in the blank) and return to MC in 6 months.


Dragon... .one of the things you have seen me say many times is "stay big picture". 

You have said many times you are ready to toss in the towel on your marriage.  That's completely understandable... given what you regularly experience.

You ARE NOT ready to toss in the towel on your son.   And you are going to need lots of professional help with him, regardless of the status of your marriage.

If you have a school psychologist saying (fill in the blank) and Mrs Dragon refuses and you say yes.

Then

You have a MC saying (fill in the blank) and Mrs Dragon refuses and you say yes.

And you have a pediatrician saying (filling the blank) (you get the picture).

You need to have professionals help you maximize your influence on your son and minimize your wife's distorted view of the world.

Thoughts?

FF

[Dragon72]

Yes, ff, those professionals have made those recommendations, but Mrs D has her stock answer which is that she sleeps in Jr's room because of the noise in the master bedroom, and the bad guy is Dragon72 for not moving to a new house.
The professionals have replied, "Yes, Mrs D, but you really shouldn't be sleeping with your son"
Mrs D "But my health suffers if I have to be in a room where I can't sleep".
End of conversation.

[formflier]

Yes, ff, those professionals have made those recommendations, but Mrs D has her stock answer which is that she sleeps in Jr's room because of the noise in the master bedroom, and the bad guy is Dragon72 for not moving to a new house.
The professionals have replied, "Yes, Mrs D, but you really shouldn't be sleeping with your son"
Mrs D "But my health suffers if I have to be in a room where I can't sleep".
End of conversation.

I'm not sure how the court system works where you are at... .but at some point they won't end the conversation. 

They'll go with with parent looking for solutions in the best interest of the child the court is considering.

At least I hope that's how it works down there.

Common sense says there are tons of things that can be tried... .other than sleeping with your child, to get a good night's sleep. I have sleep disabilities and I'm very sensitive to noise.

So... I am sympathetic to a point with your wife, yet from her described behavior she doesn't seem to have made a good faith effort towards any solution other than sleep with jr.

Which... honestly... honestly search your heart here... .is it about the noise?  I don't think it is.

FF

[Dragon72]

No heart searching required. You and I both know full well that it's not just about the noise. And if we move to another house with no noise at all she'll still continue to have an inappropriate relationship with our son and with me. 

You're right, I have mentioned a few times recently that I want out.  I know now that hoping that she will be a good life-partner and mother is not a realistic hope.  And I'm also realising that I, me, the person whose needs and priorities I have put last all my life, deserve better.  Yes, my son is an urgent priority, but I'm going to be less of a good father to him if I am a depressed, beaten and resentful man.

[formflier]

  Yes, my son is an urgent priority, but I'm going to be less of a good father to him if I am a depressed, beaten and resentful man.

So... .I hope this will encourage you that there are possibilities.

Lately if you look at my posts... .I'm a bit in the dumps over my marriage.  New schedule... .(she is teacher... off for summer)... so we have a lot more time together... which isn't the best.

Anyway... .over time... I've emphasized my relationship with my kids and de-emphasized my r/s with my wife.  

I have wonderful... absolutely wonderful times with my kids.  I spent a day this last weekend with my 17 year old travelling to check out a 68 mustang he was interested in.  He wanted help evaluating it.

My wife said some nasty things about the trip and priorities... .and I mostly ignored them and had a wonderful time.  Wife seemed to get over it... .once she figured out she couldn't control it.

There are others on here that have chosen to separate.  I've chosen to stay together.  But we've all had to come to terms with "what" we are or were married to and made kids with.

Now... .it's certainly possible and probable that you wife will make some improvements (she does try here and there).  If that is enough... only you can tell.

Back to those "specific" questions I encouraged you to ask... .I'm serious... .ask them... that way.  Press the T for a plan.  

I would give serious consideration to expressing yourself about how you feel about her accusations and that YOU will take action... regardless of what she does.  (your values... .not a threat)

So... .in my marriage... .I will only discuss $$ or serious money issues in a therapists office.  My wife will only go to preachers... .therefore... .we don't discuss money.

However... I was the one that took action... or took a stand.  By and large... .money "arguments" are over.  

Who knows if something like that will work for you... .but the message you need your MC to help "deliver" is... .you will resolve money issues through talk and agreement (in the real world... not fantasy world)... .or... .you will take action (and that action is to STOP discussing money)

The current way it "happens" is destructive for you and your marriage... and you will end that.

FF