Were her rights being violated?

[Lady Itone]

So gfBPD31 went to a facility to participate in group therapy. During her first session, she says 2 group leaders followed her to the restroom and searched her for drugs, confiscating one antipsychotic pill (Depakote.) She felt terrified and violated, and now won't be going back.

She signed paperwork when she got there, but of course didn't see anything obvious in the paperwork about possible restroom searches.

Is this legal? Standard?

I talked to 2 friends who are former social workers. One said my gf is using this as an excuse not to go to therapy (true) and unless she's going to report it to someone in authority, it doesn't matter. She thinks if I report it on gf's behalf, 2nd hand, it will likely get ignored.

The 2nd former social worker is a devoted AA adherent and believes anything they do is ok. Rights violations don't matter because drugs are bad. She also figures there was something in the paperwork that allows them to get away with that.  

Basically, I want to advise gf of her rights or lack thereof, and if this was a violation of rights, help put an end to it. Thanks.

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[pearlsw]

Hi Lady Itone,

Is she asking for your help on this in terms of doing something about it, or just looking for emotional support?

I'm sorry you are feeling upset by all this. It is not easy to know what to do in such situations where it feels as if a wrong has been committed.

If you want to get involved I'd ask her to get a copy of what she signed and take a careful read of it. I'm just guessing, but I imagine she likely agreed to such things by signing the paperwork.

How it made her feel is another thing, and given that it wasn't something she was expecting and involved upsetting physical contact it is understandable she felt extremely uncomfortable and she is free to make her own choices.

In principle thought the point of being there is that she's agreed not to do drugs of any kind though I am guessing? And she expected she could get away with this and therefore was violating the spirit of the program?

Instead of you taking this on, why not find a number of some low or no cost legal aid group to help her and let her solve this? Or advise her to ask for the home's policies again in writing? Why do you feel the need to take this piece on?

with compassion, pearl.

[Lady Itone]

Hi Pearlsw,

I'd help her report it properly if it's truly a violation because it's the right thing to do. Even mentally ill addicts deserve some dignity. Also because I have the language skills and the white privilege and the confidence to stand up to authority that she lacks as a young mentally ill woman of color.

If it's legal, common practice, so be it. Otherwise, I'll encourage her to report it to our states adult protective services, or some other advocacy group. She was just there to talk and listen. Why she had one of her prescription antipsychotics on her--no clue. She doesn't make good decisions. But now, she'll never go back.

I asked my white AA-loving friend if she was ever searched at a group therapy meeting. She's been to many, going to 2 a week for 4 years, and the answer is no, for what it's worth. 

[Lady Itone]

So I've now talked to 3 people about this (2 social worker friends and Pearlsw here), all 3 wise, all 3 have asked me "Why are you getting involved?"

Because I'm obsessed with this woman with uBPD! I hate it, but it's true. I have an empathic bond and a sexual addiction to her I cannot shake. It's feeling unmanageable right now. I've put her on "ignore" on my phone and told myself only check/respond once a day. She wants to come visit me on her birthday next month, and I feel helpless to tell her no, and humiliated that I can't let her go.

I'm considering talking to a therapist, the one gfBPD saw here does a sliding scale and was nice. As we get deeper into summer, I'll have more time.

[WileyCoyote]

I'm considering talking to a therapist, the one gfBPD saw here does a sliding scale and was nice.

i would encourage you to make make the time sooner than later.   We make time for things that are important right?  What is more important than your mental well being?   And how can we really be there for someone and see the situation clearly if we aren't there for ourselves?

"I have an empathic bond"

Sigh... . I understand.  Been there.   However,  you might consider contemplating the difference between empathy and compassion.  And work to be more compassionate toward your gfBPD instead of empathetic.  It is a healthier way to care about those we love.  

With compassion we are present for the pain of others.  We don't judge.  We let them know we care and that we are there for them.  We know we can't remove their pain.  But we let them know that we see their pain,  and it won't drive us away.  It will pass and we will still be there.

With empathy we are actually taking on and feeling those feelings for the other person.  This can have a poor  outcome for both people in even an average relationship. In a BPD relationship it can have an even worse results.  In a BPD relationship, sadly, those feelings are rarely resolved and we carry them.  Slowly that becomes our job and the Borderline person expects this.  For us to manage their emotions.  which is impossible.  but we try.  And before we know it we are in a codependent situation.   Frustrated that we can't fix them.  And "broken" ourselves.


Thoughts?


Side Note:  this is my first post but I have been here for a while.  Just reading.  :)ecided to start participating today.  Need to tell my story ind intro myself soon.

[WileyCoyote]

Also, I am a recovering alcoholic.  Sober 10 years - relapse- Sober a year again this month.

I can almost guarantee that she gave up her right to be searched.   There is a huge difference between an AA/NA meeting and group therapy.   AA/NA won't kick you out for showing up inebriated.  The fact that you are there looking for help is good enough.

In a more medical setting (like it sounds like this was)  they always reserve the right to search you and your belongings.   They usually only do this on intake to an inpatient facility.  But will do so if you are acting strange or suspicious.    

Chances are they didn't believe her about what the pill was.  why would they?  addicts lie.
Or... .it doesn't matter... .DepaKote can be abused.


Consider all these things before you try to "fix it" for her.

You might not even know the real story.  remember that too.   She might have actually been seen taking one.  They have to protect the other patients.

[pearlsw]

With compassion we are present for the pain of others.  We don't judge.  We let them know we care and that we are there for them.  We know we can't remove their pain.  But we let them know that we see their pain,  and it won't drive us away.  It will pass and we will still be there.

With empathy we are actually taking on and feeling those feelings for the other person.  This can have a poor  outcome for both people in even an average relationship. In a BPD relationship it can have an even worse results.  In a BPD relationship, sadly, those feelings are rarely resolved and we carry them.  Slowly that becomes our job and the Borderline person expects this.  For us to manage their emotions.  which is impossible.  but we try.  And before we know it we are in a codependent situation.   Frustrated that we can't fix them.  And "broken" ourselves.

Hi WileyCoyote,

Thanks for this very helpful and insightful post! You expressed this very well!

sincerely, pearl.

[WileyCoyote]

Thanks Pearl  [blush]

And LadyItone... .Don't forget to give yourself that same compassion and understanding.  

[BasementDweller]

Hi, ladyItone -

This is a difficult situation, but I think it is possible her rights WERE violated, though I certainly can't be sure what the policies and procedures are in the facility she is in. Depakote or any other drug technically can be abused/misused, but typically Depakote isn't.

It would be good to know the following things in order to determine if there was a violation of rights.

1.) Is she legally prescribed Depakote?
2.) Is she supposed to be off all medications, or is she supposed to be maintaining a medication schedule?
3.) Is there a hard fast rule that she cannot have any meds (even legal ones prescribed to her) on her person when she goes to group therapy? Considering that Depakote is used for anti-psychosis, migraines, seizures, and bi-polar mania, it is not unusual that a person with medical conditions might carry one tablet on them in case they begin to feel unwell.
4.) Is there anything signed specifically stating that she understands no meds are to be brought on the premises, and/or, she may be searched, even if she doesn't consent? (This could be intimidating or frightening to anyone.)

I suppose the most important thing to determine is - is searching someone in this manner approved in this program? If so, then there may be little that can be done about it. But I can totally understand why you would want to get involved. Mentally ill, addict, whatever, being followed by two people and searched in a restroom, and having your medications taken from you (if you do indeed have a prescription for them) would be upsetting for anyone, and if that wasn't proper protocol, then that's of concern. However, if she doesn't want to report it, it might be hard to get anyone to listen.

[WileyCoyote]

BasementDweller - I respectfully disagree... .   But really who cares... .

BECAUSE, as other have said- What does this have to do with LadyItone and why is ladyItone trying to solve the problem for her GF?   

There are so many things going on here.  Shoot, it is most likely she is not telling the whole story beyond the emotional facts of being frightened and feeling like a victim. 

Easy solution.  Call the facility. But don't do it as a confrontation. Don't mention your GF at all.  Just inquire as a potential client about these policies. They can tell you their policies over the phone when not in reference to a specific incident with a specific patient.

I think your main frustration here is the potential for her to not be getting therapy as a result of this incident.  But remember, you can't make her do anything.

If this were my SO,  I would say "Wow, that sounds unpleasant"   No questions about what she would do next.  No offers to solve the problem.   These are her "rights" and her "rights" to be defended if need be.

I might even add "I don't know what I would do if that happened to me"   a hint that I have no solutions to offer.

[WileyCoyote]

But remember... .that EASY solution I just gave will place you squarely as the rescuer in a Drama Triangle

Ask yourself... .what will you do with the information you get from a call like that?

Because at a basic level here, Your GF is pulling you into a Drama triangle.  She wants you to rescue her.   Try your best to stand in the middle of the triangle and just observe.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

[Lady Itone]

This definitely gives me a lot to think about.

WileyCoyote, WELCOME to the board, and thank you. I agree with Pearlsw what you say about compassion vs. empathy is a lesson I need to learn. I have always felt like the one who suffered most in all my relationships, I take on the darkness for everyone.

Thank you too for your insight into what goes on in these places, I think probably she did sign something, and wouldn't be surprised if she was acting tweaked out and weird.

Basement Dweller, thank you for understanding why I might want to pursue (or to urge her to pursue) justice. In my heart I do not feel good about how I've seen the U.S. healthcare system treat mentally ill/addicts. A big part of me wants to stand up to it, not just for gf, but for anyone who has been abused in the system. I do not think it at all right that she was followed and searched in the restroom.   

My current thought is I will present her with the info I've got, and let her pursue or not. Frankly, once my initial upset calmed down, I realized this isn't my circus or monkeys.

[BasementDweller]

Hi, WC - hey - that's ok. Disagreeing is fine. And I'm not really holding a solid opinion that I won't budge on or want to agree/disagree on. I don't know the situation, and I only thought it "might" be possible her rights were violated. I was merely trying to examine all sides of the cube.

But this:

Easy solution.  Call the facility. But don't do it as a confrontation. Don't mention your GF at all.  Just inquire as a potential client about these policies. They can tell you their policies over the phone when not in reference to a specific incident with a specific patient.

Good idea. If the OP wants to look into this, then that's probably the best she can do.

[BasementDweller]

Basement Dweller, thank you for understanding why I might want to pursue (or to urge her to pursue) justice. In my heart I do not feel good about how I've seen the U.S. healthcare system treat mentally ill/addicts. A big part of me wants to stand up to it, not just for gf, but for anyone who has been abused in the system. I do not think it at all right that she was followed and searched in the restroom.   

This is why I approached the situation as I did. Having worked in the US healthcare system taking care of severely ill patients for most of my adult life - I know... .from a behind the scenes perspective. Some patients are very, very, very difficult. They can really burn you out. But certain things are simply not ok. It's hard to know where the lines get blurred between "helping" and "controlling" the patients. We're all only human, and we all f*ck up. Both your GF and the staff taking care of her and other people in need of help are usually scared, stressed and overwhelmed.

Let us know what you find out if you look into the situation or get any additional information. I don't know what type of facility she was/is in or what the policies are there, but I'm sure many others here on this board might end up having a loved one in a treatment facility at some point during the relationship. We often want to advocate for them, even if they have made things difficult for us and themselves. 

[WileyCoyote]

Hi, WC - hey - that's ok. Disagreeing is fine. And I'm not really holding a solid opinion that I won't budge on or want to agree/disagree on.

  

[WileyCoyote]

My current thought is I will present her with the info I've got, and let her pursue or not. Frankly, once my initial upset calmed down, I realized this isn't my circus or monkeys.

 




Also, I just want to be clear.  I TOTALLY understand the desire to advocate for your SO.    If two people randomly followed her in the bathroom and demanded she let them search her.  That is a problem.   

But... .from my experience, I highly doubt that is how it went down.  Ever time I have seen something like this the person was even given a choice.  Let us search your stuff, or you leave.

But again there is always a chance that it went wrong somewhere.  BasementD is right.  They are just human beings.  I wasn't trying to make you feel bad for caring.  I wanted you to think about how you proceed, and what form of action that caring takes.