Help me get out of eternal angst

[downheart]

I'm experiencing a really prolonged time of angst that I don't think has ever happened to me before. I hesitate to use the word "angst", which sounds sort of pretentious, but it seems to better describe the constant ache in my gut that I've had for more than 2 weeks. And I wish I could understand what that's about and make it stop.

To recap my situation, a month ago I told my BPDw that she should leave after yet another conflict where she lost control over something minor and then punched me. I'd been living on eggshells for years as I learned (unknowingly) not to JADE, but my wife's depression, suicide threats and projection on me seemed to get worse and worse. I decided enough was enough. And after she left I realized that I needed the time and space to regain my emotional and physical strength, reflect on how the hell I got to this point, spend a lot more time with my daughters who I feel like I've neglected, and create for them a positive, affirming place instead of a tension-filled home where, as the girls said, their step-mom always set the bar too high.

But now it's been exactly four weeks since she left and I feel incredibly crappy and I'm upset with myself that I feel so low when a reasonable person would probably say that this has all been for the best. After our separation my wife said "I'm very very sick and I'm getting help." She's now seen a psychiatrist and is on antidepressants and is continuing with a therapist.  We've met with our CP several times and my wife now is accepting of the separation, which our CP also thinks is a wise move. She is going away for the summer with my step-son (previous existing plans), so there will be a natural separation anyway for the next three months. She's started to look for her own apartment when she gets back at the end of the summer so she feels like she's in control. Although I've offered many times to swap time in our house, so far she has been couch surfing and chosen not to return - partly because my girls have said they would come with me if I left and so my wife would be alone. Meanwhile I've found a new therapist because I'm determined to better understand how I was complicit in allowing emotional and physical abuse for so long and I want help to decide if reconciliation is reasonably possible, and if so what would be the requirements for myself and our relationship. We've both had outstanding support from friends and family.

So all that's good change that would have never happened if we hadn't separated.

And yet I feel such awful angst. It's not just depression. It's grief, loneliness, longing, guilt, fear, uncertainty, anxiety, and even worries about my reputation among our mutual friends (although that's honestly the least of my concerns).

Last Sunday we agreed to get together for a Mother's Day meal hosted at a friend's. All 6 of us (me, my girls, my stepsons, and my wife) plus our friends. When I arrived, my wife smiled and looking at her I felt like the world melted away. It was a good time to connect with everyone and eat and sit and talk - but not about our relationship. And it was good for the kids to hang with their sibs and step-parent. But of course there was an undercurrent of major sadness and saying goodbye was awkward and my wife was cold.

I can't stop thinking about my wife. I wake up in the middle of the night and can't fall back to sleep. I rehash over and over again. I keep reminding myself about the reality of our relationship. I play imagined discussions over and over where we listen to each other and she gets me. I seem to obsess about what she might be thinking. She's argued that she's the one in an abusive relationship and part of me feels huge despair that there's such a gulf between us in our distorted perceptions of the problems in our relationship - how could we ever patch that up? And yet I'm reading an article or watching TV or working in the garden and I want to share it all with her. I miss our physical intimacy - her touch. I don't much miss sex, but I think maybe she does. Or maybe she doesn't. And either makes me feel crappy. At some level I'm glad she's out of my life, but she really isn't because she's on my mind incessantly. Part of me can't bear truly losing her and I see this as a separation to deal with our personal issues and try to reconcile, but part of me believes that it will never be right for so many reasons - because she will probably always be BPD-like and I can't be her life raft and her relationship with my daughters sucks and after this separation with her intense fear of abandonment she could never trust me. I feel so stuck and awful about it.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi downheart,

I’m sorry to hear about the pain you are feeling! I understand this kind of torn feeling. It seems so obviously better not to be with the person and yet you still have some feelings for the person. It is not easy to kill hope.

I’ve never experienced anything like this previously. Being in love or not seemed much more clear to me previously. I feel like I am with two people at once, that he is two people, and somehow it has broken a part of me. When the relationship is on, there it is, and you just go forward. When it breaks down it seems irretrievably broken and I adjust to that new reality. And then back and again over and over. It breaks my heart a little bit more each time and is likely to make a future impossible which saddens me very much.

It is up to you to decide if you will keep feeling such attachments or seek out ways to break them. I’ve found if you really want to get over someone you can’t let yourself even think about them. This may not be the most healthy approach but in one case it’s helped, so far…

I lost someone once that I could not be with but loved very much. As many wonderful memories as I have, and as much as he made me happy, I don’t let myself spend time with those memories because they would generate too much pain for me. Maybe someday I will have the time and space to properly process that loss, but for now it’s all just put away in a deep, deep place.

Have you ever made a list of reasons not to go back/take her back in order to keep some balance in your thinking against the pull she has on your heart?

warmly, pearl.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi downheart, that is a very difficult situation to face. We are all here for you.   

Though the situation with my wife has yet to reach a separation, the possibility is always on the horizon and I can fully empathize with your feelings. Yes, of course it is a good change to remove yourself from a situation that was abusive and emotionally destructive for you. But your feelings tell you otherwise. After all, you're wife wasn't like that ALL the time and you shared experiences that created love as well, love that doesn't just disappear.

downheart even though you may have extracted yourself from the storm of course you must have many feelings that need to be processed. Those feelings you experienced don't just go away. I'm sure your therapist can help you with this part. This is what I'm trying to work on myself, coping with all the anger, guilt, and sadness that I kept inside and didn't tell anyone about. There was physical abuse, emotional abuse, and loss of relationships with precious family members who then passed away.

Besides seeing a therapist, what else are you doing to take care of yourself right now?

~ROE  

[Radcliff]

downheart, in the first few months after my separation for DV by my wife, my emotions were all over the place.  I was depressed.  A therapist said that in men, depression often presents as anxiety, with physical symptoms.  What you are experiencing, all of it, is totally normal.  I have found that exercise helps me a lot, running just a couple of miles a few times a week.  Also, reconnecting with old friends I lost touch with during the drama filled years with my wife.  You should try to have at least five different sources of support.  Count bpdfamily as one, and your therapist as another.  What about your family of origin?  Can they be a source of support?  Your feelings about the situation with your wife are valid, and none of these recommendations will make them go away.  You just have to experience them.  But broadening your support and filling your time with healthy activities will help you get through them more quickly and with less pain.  W.r.t. the touch deficit, I can definitely empathize with that.  One activity might be to get a massage.  Not the same as relationship touch, but it can be a healthy, healing thing to do, especially if touch is one of your languages.

WW

[downheart]

Hi all. Thanks very much for taking some time to reply. One of the themes I'm hearing is to find multiple sources of support. Besides this forum and a new therapist, I've got close support from my sister and another friend, who have become my confidants. And coincidentally I just connected with an old friend who - get this - used to date my wife and recently broke from his long time partner. We've started to share war stories. So, Wentworth, I've got my five.

Today I met with my wife again at CT and we worked more on dealing with separation logistics. A lot of the meeting was pretty good and productive. Although she predictably took on some patterned BPD responses/attacks. She tells me that she and her friends can't understand how I could love and care about her if I've made no effort to reach out and inquire about her given that she is suffering from such a serious mental illness. And she says that she is angry and bitter that I kicked her out, she is homeless and I abandoned her when she is at her lowest.

I think to myself that we will never reach a better place if she is going to paint herself as the victim and me the villian. I want to say to her: Yes I told you to leave. I told you to call a friend and get help because you were out of control and you physically hurt me when I was trying to be calming and help you. So I made a decision to create physical distance and urged you to get the help that I can't provide. Yes, I hear that you are at your lowest, but this is not new. We have been dealing with this crisis and your suicidal threats and your over-the-top reactions to minor issues and your projections of all your personal pain and self-loathing onto me for a very long time, so I'm not going to accept your guilt that I haven't tried really hard to be supportive over many years. I am undeniably a trigger for you. I haven't checked in with you except during CT meetings because I strongly believe we needed a cooling down period, I knew you were getting excellent support from our friends, and if I had reached out to you it would likely have continued to trigger anger, resentment, confusion, etc. And last, you're "homeless" by choice. Ever since you left home I've repeatedly offered for you to return and swap time at the house, but you've refused.

That's what I want to say. But there's a lot of JADEing there, and while I want her to understand me and I feel that accepting her accusations without rebuttal is not just validating the emotions, but validating her distorted take on reality. And then I think what would be more effective? Maybe I should say: I've been reflecting on your feelings of hurt and resentment since our separation and I'd really like you to understand that I'm coming from a place of protecting myself and the girls and believe that I'm acting out of compassion for all of us and in our best interest. I may be wrong and I may have screwed up, but if you want to know my take on this, then ask.

Or maybe I should say, I'm hearing you describe this separation as a villain that hurt a helpless victim and you want me to agree with you. I can totally imagine how frightening and upsetting it must feel to be in your shoes. But I don't think framing your situation in such stark terms will lead to reconciliation. And if you'd like to honestly understand where I'm coming from, please ask.

Or maybe I should just drop it. I need to be focussing on pulling myself together, not rehashing imaginary conversations where she magically "gets it".

[Radcliff]

downheart, your first, long explanation that you think to yourself is absolutely perfect for thinking to yourself    Seriously, though, that's a good way to think.  You are not succumbing to guilt, which is huge.  You are showing empathy, which is impressive.  You are dealing well with this.  What you are doing takes courage and wisdom.

Your explanations got better the shorter they got, and while I liked the last one the best, "drop it" may win by a nose.  I keep thinking about having the same clarifying conversations with my wife.  We haven't gotten to therapy yet, but hopefully will see a co-parenting therapist in a week or so (starting with separate meetings).  I'm open minded, but in all the indirect contacts, such as through my wife's therapist, my efforts at getting my viewpoint understood seem to have fallen flat, and I've been massively frustrated in the process.

Keep us posted!

WW

[downheart]

Wentworth, I can definitely relate to that strong desire be heard, to want validation, to be humanized. I hope your time with the co-parenting therapist goes well and you feel like you're connecting in a way that's meaningful and important to you. Good luck with that and let us know how it goes.

downheart, your first, long explanation that you think to yourself is absolutely perfect for thinking to yourself    Seriously, though, that's a good way to think.  You are not succumbing to guilt, which is huge.  You are showing empathy, which is impressive.  You are dealing well with this.  What you are doing takes courage and wisdom.

Your explanations got better the shorter they got, and while I liked the last one the best, "drop it" may win by a nose.  I keep thinking about having the same clarifying conversations with my wife.  We haven't gotten to therapy yet, but hopefully will see a co-parenting therapist in a week or so (starting with separate meetings).  I'm open minded, but in all the indirect contacts, such as through my wife's therapist, my efforts at getting my viewpoint understood seem to have fallen flat, and I've been massively frustrated in the process.

Keep us posted!

WW

[Radcliff]

Thanks, downheart, I'll have to update a personal thread soon.

Have we discussed the book, Splitting, by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger yet?  It is written specifically about separating and divorcing from pwBPD.  Even if you are not set on the path to splitting, it's a good book to read now, as it talks about some of the dynamics you are discussing with your wife talking to friends and telling them her perspective, then them reinforcing her.

WW

[downheart]

Thanks for the book tip, but I can't even go there. We promised that this was a trial separation, that that meant we would try to reconcile, and that we wouldn't do anything to screw the other behind their back. My therapist and my friends have recommended that I talk with an attorney. But I can't do it because it would feel like a betrayal.

(On the other hand, she's been given the same advice. Would things cool down if we said let's both take care of ourselves by getting whatever resources and support we need? Last year I talked with a mediator on the phone and she explained that you can write up "post-nups" that are not necessarily legal documents, but informal, cooperative agreements about basic things like money and property if things go south. Sometimes I think that my BPDw would be less afraid of me permanently abandoning her (divorce) if there was a basic agreement that she knew would result in her still being OK.)

[Radcliff]

downheart, when taking care of yourself feels like betrayal, that is a  .  Many of us have felt that way.  Beware the post-nup, especially in cases involving domestic violence.  It is unlikely that she would sign anything that fairly represented your interests.  You can hurt yourself badly by gifting away things out of guilt.  How would you abandon her?  Why does she need additional protection beyond the divorce laws in your state?  Being a victim and a caretaker at the same time is a bizarre place to be.  It takes a while to unravel it all.  There's a member here who had a difficult experience with a post-nup.  He's got a thread going on the Legal board -- I'd suggest you start a thread there asking about post-nups.  That board has some experienced hands.

WW

[RolandOfEld]

Hi downheart, I can totally understand the feelings of betrayal and guilt that come from doing things to help ourselves but we feel may hurt our partners. Here's a list of my recent "betrayals" and the rationale behind them:

Privately talking to an attorney about my options in the worst case scenario
Feels like a betrayal because - no one wants to do this since it makes it feel like the relationship is ending
Is not because - It's just facing the reality that things might not work out; it doesn't mean I will actually take legal action. Actually finding out separation would not have been as easy as I thought pushed me on a more compassionate strategy.

Secretly buying ebooks relating to BPD / boundary setting
Feels like a betrayal because - we are generally open about everything we do / read
Is not because - it helps me to better understand her and build my relationship with her

Privately seeing a therapist
Feels like a betrayal because - we didn't use to keep secrets like this
Is not because - She has always used me seeing a therapist as a weapon against me in arguments and claims its not worth the money. But me getting better is only a very good thing for her and our children.

Keeping a secret account for emergencies and to fund counseling
Feels like a betrayal because - same as above
Is not because - First off, it's my money, not hers or the money we use for the family. Second, it was her who on many occasions stole my wallet or hid my cash card or transferred money out of my account. I took an action to protect myself.

Reporting my wife's behaviors such as hitting me or stealing my property to police
Feels like a betrayal because - it's heartbreaking to do this to the person you love and get them in trouble
Is not because - this is the natural consequence of her doing illegal & abusive things. By protecting her from these consequences, I'm only hurting her more and impeding any progress she might make towards getting better. Setting boundaries strengthens relationships, not weakens them.  

Secretly notifying family of my situation
Feels like a betrayal because - talking to family behind her back feels wrong and like I'm bad mouthing her.
Is not because - I was hurting myself deeply by not talking to anyone about the situation and would definitely have lost my mind. Also not sharing what was happening had nearly cost me my relationship with my brother. Also by explaining to my family that she is ill, not just a bad person, I have actually been able to regrow their love and support for her. It actually makes her look better to them, not worse.  

Serving on admin board of bpdfamily
Feels like a betrayal because - I have a little secret life online where I talk to strangers about our problems.
Is not because -  It's completely anonymous and the help I get here has given me the strength to cope with and improve the situation. Everything I've learned here has helped her, not "hurt" her.

Do you see how so-called betrayals become quite the opposite when you apply deeper thinking to them? The feelings of guilt are conditioned and can be broken down by applying rational thought. I'm not having an affair. I'm not gambling our savings away. I'm only taking unilateral actions to help our family until she is in a condition to do the same.  

Each one of these steps took me a long time to make and each usually followed some abusive action on her part. It's extremely easy to lose resolve when you feel you are hurting / betraying someone.

But you are not betraying anyone by getting a book that gives you some context on your relationship. By taking care of yourself, you are only helping her. It just takes some perspective widening to see it.

~ROE

[downheart]

Whoa. When you put it that way, Wentworth and RolandOfEld, it really made me pause. Really thank you for speaking up this way. RolandOfEld, I can relate to so many of your examples. That was really helpful. Just today I was thinking of buying the eggshell book on Amazon, but then I realized we shared a Prime account and she would potentially see that, so I thought I'd secretly order it, but that made it feel like a betrayal, so I didn't.

The thing is, though, it's not just me fighting the guilt, it's knowing from experience that my wife will accuse me of betrayal. Twice I've called her best friend for help to ask him to intervene - once when she threatened suicide and once when she beat me. Both times she was very upset with me and said that I betrayed her. In so many other cases, my wife has expressed betrayal or accused me of intentionally shutting her out because of minor issues or oversights.

So this is really hard.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi downheart, it is, it really is. Insanely hard. No matter how ample a cache of rationale thoughts we have in our head, our love and feelings of obligation to someone are easier to respond to than the reality.

By calling her friend to intervene, you were saving both your lives and not betraying anyone. But their words have power don't they? Again, this is where the years of conditioning becomes manifest.

"Love" is something I've had to work hard to redefine. Reporting my wife to the police was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever had to do in my life. But I realized it's also one of the most loving things I could have done for her. I gave her the natural consequence that no one else in her life could give her. And I believe it played a big role in her recent overtures towards getting help.  

Like I said, it takes time to work up the courage to do these things. My suggestion is to start with buying the book, which was my first step, too. From there, continue working to widen your perspective on the relationship. The more your perspective grows, the more courage you'll find to take steps to protect yourself.

One other suggestion I have is to keep a record of her dysregulated behavior, including screenshots of texts or photos of marks from when she hits you. Besides the fact that this record can potentially serve legal / therapy purposes down the line, it helps to strengthen your resolve to see what's happened all so clearly right there in front of you. I pull mine out during good behavior times when I start to feel like this whole BPD fiasco was something I dreamed up and I am wrong to even be on this board. The minute I see it, my resolve hardens right up again.   

~ROE

[downheart]

Just one more quick follow up. Recording events is yet another way that I have felt I was betraying her! I used to journal my experiences. I took photos of myself the first and only time she really beat me badly. And I've recorded our arguments on my phone sometimes. I've never listened except once, partly because I didn't want to relive it, but partly because it felt like a betrayal. And yet I did all these different kinds of recordings (writings, photos, audio) not with the intention of "getting" her - which is what she worries about - but for my own sanity, to keep me grounded in reality when I feel like my wife creates an alternate version, and to remind me about my history when I think about what's possible.

[RolandOfEld]

Yeah I should have added that to my list, too. It makes me sad to know that file even exists. And that I recorded stuff. That's not something you picture yourself doing while making your wedding vows. But try to keep yourself in the headspace that what you are doing, in the long term, will help her, as will taking this time apart. 

Have you checked out the skills training on Radical Acceptance yet? For me, accepting the reality of her illness was a huge step that empowered me to take most of the above actions.

~ROE

[downheart]

No I hadn't seen the Radical Acceptance topic on the boards. Cool. Thanks for the link. In a better time between me and my wife earlier this year, I bought her Tara Brach's book and she likes everything she's heard and read from her. I've been regularly listening to her guided meditations - particularly before CT meetings with my wife. And so there's hope and I'm glad to read there's some intersection with that concept here.

[Radcliff]

A few more things... .

I have done everything on ROE's list, too.

Domestic violence is a massive betrayal.

Our pwBPD have distorted views of what is a betrayal and what is not.  Asking a friend for assistance puts sunlight on the problem, and can be an effective way to interrupt abusive or self destructive behaviors.  This was an act of courage, not betrayal.

Likewise, calling the police can feel like a huge act of betrayal.  In one evening, I filed a police report about assaults, my wife found out, she took off in the car, and called me threatening suicide.  I was terrified, called the police to find her and make sure she stayed safe, and they ended up taking her into custody for an overnight psych evaluation.  There was a lot of talk from her about betrayal, and I felt awful.  But I had decided to stop shielding her from the natural consequences of her actions.  I was legitimately terrified that my daughters would lose their mother.  She never threatened suicide again.

On the documentation thing, I'm just going to cut to the chase -- drop any thoughts of betrayal right now, and become dedicated to excellent documentation.  I made many mistakes, one thing I did right was to journal for a year before the separation.  I did it mostly, as you say, for myself, to fight my minimization, denial, and forgetting.  But I also did it as a coping mechanism.  If she said awful, abusive things to me (like threatening to get me fired, threatening to file a false report of abuse so I could never see the kids again, etc.) or if she assaulted or stalked me or kept me up at night, I wrote it down.  The third reason is in case I had to tell my story.  I was terrified that I'd be in front of someone (evaluator, police, whoever) saying how awful it had been, but having no specifics to back it up.  When I show what I've got to professionals with decades of experience, they are taken aback by all that happened.  Nobody has doubted me that my wife is the abuser.  We're talking DA, cops, multiple therapists, a child custody evaluator.  Two important things are that because I've got the documentation, I have the story straight in my head, and can't minimize it or doubt myself.  So I tell the story calmly.  The other is the details.  My therapist has done batterer's programs and said that guys who make things up make up a page of lame things.  I've got a hundred pages of crazy details.  Nobody would think I am that good of a creative writer.  I also have 3-4 videos of my wife assaulting me or trapping me.  Those make all the written material even more believable.  There are so many things that are stressful about what is going on, but people believe me.  If I had been in a situation where I was not believed, or even worse, I was accused of being the abuser, I worry that it would have broken me.  Having all the documentation is also super helpful for my own healing.  My therapist doesn't have to work to help me remember what happened.  It's all there, like a report to a doctor who is making your treatment plan.  I generally keep the documentation tucked away, but every month or two there's a reason to handle it, and seeing it every once in a while is helpful to keep me from getting unrealistic about the future.

Audio recordings are another story.  Search "two party consent states for audio recording" and see if you live in a two party consent state.  That can make the recordings difficult to use.  Even if you are, a recording might help insulate you against abuse allegations.  I live in a two party consent state, and the only audio recording I was able to use is one where my wife actually mentions that I'm recording and doesn't object.

Back to the betrayal thing, when I handed this stack of documentation and videos to the evaluator, I felt horrible, like someone turning in their spouse to the FBI for committing a crime.  It was one of the toughest things I ever did.  But looking back at it, I am grateful.  It gave the people who are helping us accurate information, and protected my children and myself, while doing nothing to my wife other than allowing her to experience the natural consequences of her actions (which, unfortunately, I'd been protecting her from for a long, long time).

OK, sorry that was so long.  Bottom line, save every incriminating bit of information you have on your wife's behaviors.  She is an adult, and responsible for everything she did.  That information is important for therapists and evaluators who are helping your family to see.  I hope you would agree that with her distorted viewpoint, your wife's position on this is not likely to be in the best interests of your children or you.

One more thought on documentation -- just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it.  You have choices about when and how much of it to use.  But if you don't have it, you've taken that choice away from yourself.

WW