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there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
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Topic: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards (Read 901 times)
MrRight
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there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
«
on:
May 15, 2018, 11:30:49 PM »
I remember reading that pwBPD suffer NPD in about 30% of cases.
Somebody in another thread said that NPDs put their children before their spouses.
That rung a bell and made me think.
I needed to work at home one day but she wanted to spend the day out
"I need to work, my business needs it" I said
"My priority is not your business. My son needs a walk in the country - his health is my priority not your business"
"We cant afford these music lessons for him" I said, "we need a more affordable option"
"I make the decisions about what he needs - your job is to provide the money"
Then there's the lack of empathy - on the one hand she will say "aw" if a child falls over and starts crying - on the other hand she goes into a rage if I am in any kind of discomfort ad need to inconvenience her to alleviate that doscomfort (eg need the toilet). She also turns the heating on at night knowing it makes me and my S15 sweat. There are more examples - she can be ruthless.
Then there's the respect for wealth and power - she continually shoves in my face the examples of successful people and on her good days tells me to take an example after these billionaires etc - on her worst days she tells me what a failure I am. She tried to turn our son into a superchild - through music - top private schools - top universities etc. Depriving him of play time etc and a proper childhood. Anything that threatened her ambitions for her child made her behave irrationally - education providers who were angels to her while they were doing what she liked became evil villains when they suggested something in the child's interests, but went against her ambitions. I have seen her accuse (to their faces) education providers of conspiring against him to prove a point.
So there's this feeling that we cant match her standards - professionally or around the house. It is never clean enough for example - and she flies into a rage over these things.
She also demands special treatment - she will jump queues if she can - she wants people to break their own rule book for her convenience. It cant be dont until wednesday - no good - its monday and she wants it now - no excuses.
There's more - I am trying to establish what I am dealing with here - if she is a combination of BPD and NPD it makes matters much worse and more complicated.
any thoughts?
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Re: BPD / NPD combination
«
Reply #1 on:
May 15, 2018, 11:47:15 PM »
Ugh. I'm with you on not being the Tiger Parent. A solid education is helpful, but it means nothing if a person doesn't have good values and makes the right choices. My ex's H went to the most expensive private college prep high school where we live, then got a degree from thy local state college. He couldn't find a job, so went to community college to be an EMT. Dropped that and started a car detailing business... .which is something high school drop outs might do, and I'd bet money on a high school drop out being a lot more motivated and making that into a successful business.
Your wife does sound entitled. Maybe you can find some value in this discussion:
What is the relationship between BPD and narcissism (NPD)?
It sounds like you and she have conflicting values around raising your son. What do you have in common?
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Red5
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Re: BPD / NPD combination
«
Reply #2 on:
May 16, 2018, 11:24:25 AM »
Good Morning MrRight,
Reading down through your post, and I can make connections/comparisons to my own u/BPDw.
What you are describing does sound like entitlement mentality; which is a hallmark of BPD behavior, as well a pretty good dose of npd as well.
Have you ever heard of the different "versions" (female gender) or manifestations of the pw/BPD, .from left to right (spectrum), first is the waif, then the hermit, then as we slip to the right (more negative/malignant) in the spectrum, we now see the queen, and then the witch (?)... .a pw/BPD can also present a combination of more than one, and can also move back and forth through them... .
Interesting stuff.
My u/BPDw is a waif/queen, and the "baby" of three; and when she is really spinning up, the queen turns into a witch.
Her immediate older foo sib/sis is a hermit/witch, and the oldest sib/sis is a queen/witch... .and the MIL (foo mum) is a straight up queen (manipulator), I have not ever seen her be a witch, but my u/BPDw has related "stories" of her childhood... .but she (MIL) is certainly "grandiose"... .
To see the entire foo/fam in-laws all together (holidaze), as well my fellow son-in-laws... .in action, maneuvering, taking rounds, and such like, .boy what a "show"... .
They say npd is a result of trauma, most times from childhood experiences, I can see this in my u/BPDw's own foo/fam, being all the sisters all together, with mum (MIL) in the middle... .as I observe the MIL, I can see the manipulations, as if they were all toddlers/or teenagers again living in the foo home, under MIL's iron fist control... .crazy stuff.
The behaviors of my fellow son-in-laws is something else, .wow, how have they persevered all these years?... .I won't go into what I perceive here, but I will say that it seems to me that these two were particularly picked out, so that they could be controlled... .and I will leave it at that.
My u/BPDw's first husband would fit into this above, aforementioned grouping, they were married for about twenty years when they divorced... .the other two marriages (foo sib/sis's) have also lasted well beyond the two decade marker... .I have been able to talk quite candidly to the oldest son-in-law, and what he related to me made my hair stand on end, as far as behaviors the he and the other son-in-law have experienced, as well my predecessor... .wow () !
I can certainly relate to what you wrote, "never good enough", "changing positions/options" to suite... .this is what I have heard referred to as "moving the goal post"... .mine (u/BPDw) used to do this ALL the time, until I discovered BOUNDRIES... .lots of crazy, .yes lots of crazy !
Many of the behaviors I observe/experience first hand do seem almost "adolescent"... .as if I am dealing with a spoiled toddler, then other times its the "mean spirited cheerleader" mentality... .hmmm,
Yes MrRight, what you write, I can certainly relate !
You used the term "complicate"... .so I would encourage you to learn ALL you can, as you proceed, so you will know what to expect, and maybe be able to steer, side step, and even avoid to some degree;... .there is a person I have been following on a YouTube channel, her name is Kris Godinez, its kind of "rough", but she does tell it like it is, in a "tough love" demeanor... .you should check it out,
Red5
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Teno
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Re: BPD / NPD combination
«
Reply #3 on:
May 16, 2018, 09:26:05 PM »
I'm trying to find my own feet on this one as well. My MIL alienates her husband from their children and grand kids. He's never good enough to do anything for the kids and she has no problem interrupting or pulling faces when he has time with the grand kids or does something for their kids.
Does your MIL do the same?
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Re: BPD / NPD combination
«
Reply #4 on:
May 17, 2018, 09:31:53 AM »
FEELING = FACT
WANT IS GENERALLY A FEELING - NEED IS GENERALLY A FACT
WANT IS CONFUSED WITH NEED
WHAT I FEEL I WANT I NEED
NEED INVOKES PRIMARY SURVIVAL MECHANISMS
PRIMARY SURVIVAL MECHANISMS TRIGGER ME ME ME ME TENDENCIES I.E. NARCISSISM
Maybe your wife feels like she needs to be the best mother possible and in her twisted way of doing that she feels he has certain wants or in her mind needs. You not providing those NEEDS is tantamount to being cruel. In my mind this is the crux of how many pwBPD feel abused. "How could this person not meet my primary survival needs?"... .irrespective of any kind of practical, economic or emotional constraint.
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AskingWhy
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Re: BPD / NPD combination
«
Reply #5 on:
May 18, 2018, 12:20:10 AM »
MrRight, I can totally relate. My uBPD H is most definitely uNPD. He splits, a feature in BPD and NPD, and he rages.
Both of these Cluster B disorders are very similar. Red5 is correct in stating these are both spectral in nature. A person can be mild or severe. And they can be co-morbid, or occurring in the same person.
My H once drove an elderly stranger home after midnight. H met the man in the emergency department of a hospital and was alarmed to hear the patient had no one to take him home, and would have had to take a late-night bus when discharged. H stepped up and told the hospital staff who were arranging for the bus ride that he would personally take the man home. (One of his children had a broken arm and was in the ER.) NPDs often do things that make themselves feel good or look good to others.
Empathy, right?
Then there was the time I just had a medical procedure. I was advised not to drive so H drove me. On the way home, I was appalled that H was angry at having to take me to the hospital. I stated I was hurt he did not show empathy. What did he do? He stopped the car in the middle of traffic, put the car in park and left the car and walked away and out of my sight. I am not making this up. There I was, in traffic, terrified the car would be rear-ended by oncoming traffic. I frantically tried to get out of the passenger seat (my leg hurt and I was still groggy) and into the driver's seat so I could at least curb the car. As I struggled out of the passenger seat, H returned and snarled at me that I had better not talk to him "that way" and I got the punishment I deserved. A week later I asked him if he felt anything about leaving a wife in a car in traffic with the chance to be rear-ended. He said if I talked to him "in that tone" (asking for empathy), he would not hesitate to leave me stranded again. In fact, H was angry that he was inconvenienced to take me to the appointment. What other spouses see as part of the devotion to one's spouse, H sees as a "favor," one that must be repaid.
A decided lack of empathy. In fact, cruelty.
On the flip side, he was a masochist for his children from their childhood--they learned to blackmail him into doing what they wanted (trips to amusement parks and toys in childhood to designer clothes and tech devices in adulthood) and he was running terrified and eager to do their bidding. BPDs and NPDs see their children as extensions of themselves and often see their children as friends.
Unhealthy, to say the least.
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MrRight
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Re: BPD / NPD combination
«
Reply #6 on:
May 18, 2018, 01:49:22 AM »
Thanks for all your replies.
One part that does not seem to fit with NPD is - she is low on self esteem and v insecure. That fits like a glove with BPD right?
But I think that inability to see any POV but her own is a NPD trait.
Askingwhy - I read your main thread - he sounds like a brute. It's bad enough having a volent BPD female partner - I cant begin to imagine what its like having to cope with a but who is stronger than me. But yes - they have empathy when it suits them. She has formerly force fed out child - nobody with any empathy at all would do such a thing. She still insists he drink a litre of milk a day and he has to finish every last thing on his plate no matter how full he is. And why? He's a growing boy. I help him when I can - throw away food when she's not looking or eat it myself.
Red5 - I sent my mum - who I havent seen for 10 years, by email, a family holiday photo - she said my wife looks like a witch. Yes she does go from being a queen to a witch too. My wife's big childhood trauma seems to be the way her parents favoured her younger sister. Her mum seems to have played the queen during those years - I have heard stories of her husband getting down on his knees in front of people and cleaning her shoes (he left her eventually surprise surprise).
I have a tough day ahead as she has screwed up with an agency she has been doing work for - suddenly decided she didnt want to work with agencies anymore - wants to find her own big clients (ha ha ha) - the agency staff were abrupt with her and I have to phone - put them straight and restore all her dignity. I have seen the correspondence - there is no justification for this call.
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Panda39
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Re: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
«
Reply #7 on:
May 18, 2018, 06:51:48 AM »
The first thing I thought when reading your post is your wife has her identity completely wrapped up in being the most
super fantastic mother ever!
My SO's uBPDxw was much the same about "keeping up appearances" I always felt that she was always trying to hide behind the trappings. For the most part she did... .until she didn't.
Nice house in the suburbs but a hoarders mess inside, stay at home mom but couldn't work because of her dysfunction, had all the latest and greatest stuff and over spent the family funds (my SO eventually had to put his paycheck on a prepaid credit card she had no access to, to control the spending), (During their separation) She would "home school" their daughter but never did (poor kid lost her freshman year of High School), Christmas trip for the whole family to see the in laws and later stranded there because she never purchased tickets home (one way tickets to no where is a specialty ) and during the separation renting lovely furnished town homes that she couldn't afford and trashed and got evicted from.
Wanting things without the self control or discipline to get them, so boundary busting usually with FOG and charm to get what she wants... .why ask for permission when you can just apologize later?
Anyway I think keeping up appearances was a way for her to hide her issues... .which I imagine would be soothing for her, look world (in her case that world most definitely included her FOO) I'm okay... .I'm a stay at home mom in the suburbs that is so dedicated to my daughter's education that I am home schooling her, and our family gets to go on wonderful out of state trips to visit our wonderful parents. This is the stuff that makes BPD so hard for others/outsiders to see what is really happening because they are seeing the illusion.
Panda39
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Re: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
«
Reply #8 on:
May 18, 2018, 08:25:19 AM »
Keeping up appearances is a necessity if you are to avoid public shame. Being a bad mother behind the protection of the front door is totally fine where they can finally relax and remove the masks.
I have an unsupported theory based on some things I have read and my personal experience with my W that my W wanted kids as she saw this as a salve for her emotional black hole... .and hell it worked pretty well, until it didn't and rather than children being the utopia of emotional fulfillment, they became a HUGE source of invalidation and stress... .now you might say that a baby is a source of stress, but she could rescue that baby with milk and cuddles. She was what it needed and the baby validated that by being calmed by her. She had complete control.
This is explained well here
https://bpdfamily.com/content/why-we-struggle-in-relationships
She is now caught in a predicament, abandoning the children would be a huge source of shame and personal anguish, but they are such a huge source of emotional pain she wants to reject them at times. This is why when i return home, it's usual chaotic, there's often shouting and I am tasked with sorting out relatively stressful tasks. Also, this feeds into discipline disagreements, the Karpman triangle type argument where she starts conflict with kids, I try and rescue, she shifts me over to perpetrator and then rescues the kids as good cop. She wants the positive emotion that she was hooked on when the kids were babies... .mummy is your savior. She is caught in a situation where she has to keep the pretense up that she is a loving caring attentive mother who has her children's best interests at heart when in public to avoid shame and guilt, but rejects parenting when I'm around to pick up the role and she shows a clean pair of heals.
I feel this is certainly how my W's BPD was passed from mother to daughter as her mother rejected the very role of mother, and saw her kids as a burden because of their invalidating nature of being kids.
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MrRight
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Re: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
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Reply #9 on:
May 19, 2018, 12:32:14 AM »
Panda39
some similarities for sure.
my wife is a hoarder too - she cant let anything go and keep on accumulating. when she went away for a few days I secretly disposed of 200 books! she never noticed. the junk she buys - a set of 1920 encyclopedias in a thrift store for example.
but she did home school well, and when he was at school she made sure he did all his homework etc. He's three years ahead of his peers. But at what price? I have 2 years left on paying off debts accrued while she was throwing our money around at music and academic super teachers. e's never allowed out of the house on his own. He's nearly 16. I talk to him a lot about how he will discover freedom as an adult - which is not too far off.
Well I did not have to make that telephone call as the agency called her, said some nice things to her about the job she did - now she's ashamed about the fuss she made.
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Re: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
«
Reply #10 on:
May 19, 2018, 12:46:03 AM »
My BPD mother was a Hoarder, of the worst kind you might see on the TV show. I don't envy whoever bought her 5 acres at county auction and the mess they have to clean up. My T once told me it was "fear of loss." But it's way deeper than that.
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Panda39
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Re: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
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Reply #11 on:
May 19, 2018, 11:11:46 AM »
Quote from: MrRight on May 19, 2018, 12:32:14 AM
When she went away for a few days I secretly disposed of 200 books! she never noticed.
This made me laugh, my SO has a story about smuggling out a trash bag of single socks (the sock monster got the rest ). He had to dispose of the bag at work because she would pull things out of the trash at home if she found anything there.
Quote from: MrRight on May 19, 2018, 12:32:14 AM
but she did home school well, and when he was at school she made sure he did all his homework etc. He's three years ahead of his peers. But at what price? I have 2 years left on paying off debts accrued while she was throwing our money around at music and academic super teachers. e's never allowed out of the house on his own. He's nearly 16. I talk to him a lot about how he will discover freedom as an adult - which is not too far off.
This is concerning that he is so isolated from people his own age. The fact that he is younger in age than education level is good in terms of school but may make things more complicated when he is able to finally interact with others at college. Do you feel he will be equipped to comfortably interact with kids at college? Does he feel/recognize how isolated he is from his peers? He might have have a very steep learning curve. He is very prepared educationally but seems unprepared socially, based on what you describe above.
What if mom doesn't allow the separation you hope for when he goes off to college. We have members here that are required to call frequently or go home on the weekends... .the controlling continues (maybe at a lesser level).
Just some things to think about.
Panda39
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MrRight
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Re: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
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Reply #12 on:
May 19, 2018, 11:57:47 AM »
Quote from: Panda39 on May 19, 2018, 11:11:46 AM
This made me laugh, my SO has a story about smuggling out a trash bag of single socks (the sock monster got the rest ). He had to dispose of the bag at work because she would pull things out of the trash at home if she found anything there.
This is concerning that he is so isolated from people his own age. The fact that he is younger in age than education level is good in terms of school but may make things more complicated when he is able to finally interact with others at college. Do you feel he will be equipped to comfortably interact with kids at college? Does he feel/recognize how isolated he is from his peers? He might have have a very steep learning curve. He is very prepared educationally but seems unprepared socially, based on what you describe above.
What if mom doesn't allow the separation you hope for when he goes off to college. We have members here that are required to call frequently or go home on the weekends... .the controlling continues (maybe at a lesser level).
Just some things to think about.
Panda39
We got him into a school for his final 2 years where he is doing is pre-university exams etc. Thank goodness for him - he gets on well there and prefers being there to being at home. He's tall - and looks serious - so him being younger is not too much of an issue. Under the circumstances it is quite remarkable that he has grown up as "normal" as he is - but then he has at least one sane parent to guide him if not two. We talk a lot - mainly when we go for a run in the morning - he understands about his mother's mental health as I have explained as much as I can. He gets on well with her, though when there are conflicts between them I do get scared he will explode on her and he is very strong. I have had to warn him to be very careful with his temper when she pushes him. I told him he should be grateful that he is going in the right direction academically - has been able to choose his own path - drop music and do science which is what he always wanted. He will taste full freedom in adulthood and have a wonderful life.
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Re: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
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Reply #13 on:
May 19, 2018, 12:48:18 PM »
A brief hijack on hoarding: my BPD mother hoarded and was unwilling to throw away even broken stuff, magazines that were fifty years old, hundreds of saved yogurt cups, etc.
When I was preparing to move her near me, I’d fly down for a few days, pack up what was useful to move, donate unneeded stuff, and throw away stuff in the trash or recycle bin. Then I’d return a couple weeks later and she would have pulled out the stuff from the trash and recycle, and if the donations hadn’t been picked up in a timely fashion, they’d be back in the house too.
I chalked this up to the beginnings of dementia, having grown up during the Depression, and most of all, having her identity wrapped up in things, which triggered memories. It didn’t occur to me that it might be yet another manifestation of BPD.
Always my sorting would trigger tears and anger, yet there was no way I was willing to have the movers move useless junk. Much sympathy for anyone who has to deal with hoarding behavior.
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Re: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
«
Reply #14 on:
May 19, 2018, 01:09:09 PM »
Quote from: MrRight on May 19, 2018, 11:57:47 AM
We got him into a school for his final 2 years where he is doing is pre-university exams etc. Thank goodness for him - he gets on well there and prefers being there to being at home.
This is excellent! It sounds like he has taken to his school and enjoys it for many reasons, one of which must be his friends.
Panda39
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MrRight
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Re: there's this feeling that we cant match her standards
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Reply #15 on:
May 19, 2018, 02:29:59 PM »
Quote from: Panda39 on May 19, 2018, 01:09:09 PM
This is excellent! It sounds like he has taken to his school and enjoys it for many reasons, one of which must be his friends.
Panda39
Thanks - out of the mess of the last 18 years I am determined that he will grow up well and find his place in the world. Apart from this parental instinct for him to find his place in the world - I cant rationalise what I have done with all these years walking on eggshells and dancing to her tune. Something positive must be the result.
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