Well I deleted her as a contact today

[Depression = 72% of members]

Well I deleted her as a contact today ,and since I never knew her number by heart if she never texts me again I’ll never speak to her again.Its sorta of a test for me actually, if she truely only cares about herself I’ll never hear from her again,as for me I can’t text her even if I wanted to do it solves that problem

[Shawnlam]

Well I deleted her as a contact today ,and since I never knew her number by heart if she never texts me again I’ll never speak to her again.Its sorta of a test for me actually, if she truely only cares about herself I’ll never hear from her again,as for me I can’t text her even if I wanted to do it solves that problem

[Struggler123]

Well I deleted her as a contact today ,and since I never knew her number by heart if she never texts me again I’ll never speak to her again.Its sorta of a test for me actually, if she truely only cares about herself I’ll never hear from her again,as for me I can’t text her even if I wanted to do it solves that problem

I did the same thing Shawn, when I was first on my road to detaching.  It truly helps a lot but I recommend keeping yourself busy the first few weeks. My ex just blocked me, I spoke to her 3 days back, and I was pretty civil about the whole thing. She tried bringing up the past and everything. But its at that moment, I realized it wasn’t go anywhere and the respectful thing to do is to just say that. I suppose she understood that and then randomly blocked me last night. Your ex will most probably contact you again, at that point youll feel the same way I did and realize your better off letting go. What do you think? Imagine yourself, as me. What would you tell me?

[Shawnlam]

I did the same thing Shawn, when I was first on my road to detaching.  It truly helps a lot but I recommend keeping yourself busy the first few weeks. My ex just blocked me, I spoke to her 3 days back, and I was pretty civil about the whole thing. She tried bringing up the past and everything. But its at that moment, I realized it wasn’t go anywhere and the respectful thing to do is to just say that. I suppose she understood that and then randomly blocked me last night. Your ex will most probably contact you again, at that point youll feel the same way I did and realize your better off letting go. What do you think? Imagine yourself, as me. What would you tell me?

I think because of that heavy ultimatum she gave you ,marry me or I’m marrying him,I’d probably have walked like you to.As of right now she blocked you most likely cuz you weren’t playing her game and it seems her game back fired on her and now she’s pissed off,and blames you.All in all she played poker and lost , you came out the winner and she knows it.

In my case I was the one who left her twice and she then left me (played my game).Id say I lost but probably won in the long run .Nobody could keep her in 29 years what makes me think I ever had a chance of keeping her ? Foolishness I guess ,but I learnt  a lot about myself ,my issues that I need to work on ,I have plenty to fix about me.I doubt she will reach out to me , even after her texts Sunday ,it’s all kinda a game to them and it took me awhile to figure it out or let me me reword that (it took me awhile to accept it).I don’t hate her in anyway for it,I still love her .By deleting her profile and number I’ve effectively taken steps to walk away .But I’ll keep working on myself for sure ,change my approach (not that I’ve had such a hard time getting woman) but honestly I think change is good.

[juju2]

Hi Shawn,

It's a rough road at times.  You are stronger than you think.

For me it comes to what do I want.  It's about me, my choices, and i don't answer to anyone, other than my Higher Power.  PwBPD has a serious mental illness.  My s.o. is disabled from it.  It is difficult to know when I am interacting w him, the person I fell in love with, and if i am interacting w the serious mental illness, the illness that strikes hardest towards the people they are closest to.

It's hard and it's easy and everything in between.

You can detach.  You can engage.  There is no right thing to do.

be good to yourself,  j

[Struggler123]

I think because of that heavy ultimatum she gave you ,marry me or I’m marrying him,I’d probably have walked like you to.As of right now she blocked you most likely cuz you weren’t playing her game and it seems her game back fired on her and now she’s pissed off,and blames you.All in all she played poker and lost , you came out the winner and she knows it.

In my case I was the one who left her twice and she then left me (played my game).Id say I lost but probably won in the long run .Nobody could keep her in 29 years what makes me think I ever had a chance of keeping her ? Foolishness I guess ,but I learnt  a lot about myself ,my issues that I need to work on ,I have plenty to fix about me.I doubt she will reach out to me , even after her texts Sunday ,it’s all kinda a game to them and it took me awhile to figure it out or let me me reword that (it took me awhile to accept it).I don’t hate her in anyway for it,I still love her .By deleting her profile and number I’ve effectively taken steps to walk away .But I’ll keep working on myself for sure ,change my approach (not that I’ve had such a hard time getting woman) but honestly I think change is good.

That’s true, the ultimatiums I felt like were unfair and to be informed suddenly 2 days before I left, was exactly the best combo. Thank you for making me feel better. For the longest time I felt responsible, and it was just unfair to be put into that situation. You did the right thing, trust me. Sometimes, we just have to let go. Like they say, you can love someone and still let them go. It’s only when we make ourselves better, that we realize that theres more to life then just being hung over a relationship. I’m sure you will find the love that helps you grow. Just have to believe it.

[Wicker Man]

Its sorta of a test for me actually, if she truely only cares about herself I’ll never hear from her again

Be careful here.  You went No Contact as a test?  If I were you I would take this time and figure out what it is you really want.

You said "If she truely only cares about herself".  If she does indeed suffer from BPD, at least to my understanding of the disorder, she very likely does not 'care about herself'.  This is, once again to my layman's understanding of the disorder, the root cause of the erratic behavior. People suffering from BPD have a high level of self loathing.  The antithesis of 'only caring for herself'.

My undiagnosed BPD lover often said 'I need you'.  This is the ultimate truth.  Her love for me was based on need.  She needed someone to fill her, so give her identity, to be a point of light in the darkness.  As a codependent it felt great to be needed, but at some point I believe she would have become tolerant of my love as an addict becomes tolerant of morphine. 

The only way to get the 'high' again is more morphine.  I had given her all of my love and for a time it was enough, but ultimately the 'high' of my love would have, very likely, no longer been enough.  This, once again very likely, would have caused her to spiral into darkness -I would have no longer been 'a knight in shining armor'. 

Her emptiness would have returned with a vengeance and with it the rage.  My belief, ultimately she would have left me.  She would have left me in a  screaming rage and I would have very likely been holding the child we talked about having in my arms as she walked out the door.  --the end to life as I know it.

So.  From my limited experience with BPD, she will text you again.  I noticed you did not block her from being able to do so.  So now to my point... .You need to figure out what you want, and what you need before the inevitable eventuality of her reaching out to you. 

Testing via No contact is a double edged sword, in that you have 'abandoned' her by going no contact, which is stoking her worst fear (presuming BPD).

I don't recall if you are seeing a therapist or not.  I am and he has helped me begin reconcile my loss, confusion and pain from my tryst with BPD.


Wicker Man

[Shawnlam]

 C<|||Wicker Man

Oh it’s not no contact or blocking her wickerman .I deleted her profile to prevent ME from contacting her that’s all .She isn’t blocked and she can text me at will .This test was for myself only ,I know i usually have initiated and checked up on her but that is no more.The test in effect is to see if she will “need me” again in the near future .If Not then this play is over and I can simply continue to heal and work on my issues which are plenty. What I want isn’t important right now,to work on myself is.For her what she wants is what everyone with BPD wants ,is she going to find a new toy? Has she already ? Who knows and honestly it’s not my business or problem we are not together.I have my serious doubts even after her emotional texts last Sunday that I’m in her field of vision and wants .She may have BPD but she is not stupid,she knows it didn’t work the first time and she knows her control on me is very limited .

[Wicker Man]

... .(if she will “need me” again in the near future.) If Not then this play is over and I can simply continue to heal

What I want isn’t important right now

In my opinion, herein lies a contradiction.  A large part of my healing process is to figure out precisely what I want and need out of relationships.  The causality between failure and success and how to ultimately find personal happiness and peace.

She may have BPD but she is not stupid

 

Mine was a genius, incredible processing power!  For me to ever have underestimated her memory, intelligence or uncanny ability of perception would have been a grave mistake.  When she was very young she flirted with eidetic memory.  She was a marvel and as unstable as she was brilliant.

“There is no genius without having a touch of madness.”  --Aristoteles

She had a heaping dose of both in my respectful opinion.

She knows it didn’t work the first time and she knows her control on me is very limited .

In my opinion this statement is a bit perilous.  You are presuming how she interpreted your actions and further you are presuming your actions may have had a punitive effect -thus changing her behavior in the future?

Figure out what you want and need --That is certainly my task.

Wicker Man

[Shawnlam]

What I want is simple ,just be a better version of me .This is no longer about if she comes back to me or not.Just because I love someone I can’t have doesn’t mean I need to contemplate the what if’s anymore.Its just time to better myself  and fix the weaknesses I have .IF  she does text or communicate I’ll take it from there but it’s a huge If

[Skip]

(1)What I want is simple ,just be a better version of me .This is no longer about if she comes back to me or not.(2)Just because I love someone I can’t have doesn’t mean I need to contemplate the what if’s anymore.Its just time to better myself  and fix the weaknesses I have .IF  (3)she does text or communicate I’ll take it from there but it’s a huge If

Shawn, most of what I've been saying is that you have to stop making it worse before you can start making it better. I've encouraged you to get out of this reactionary mode where after you talk to her she is a good person who you want to build a relationship, but if she goes silent, you discount her as a messed up mentally ill lying/cheating/loveless person who must be doing something bad behind your back.

It's pretty weird, you admit that.

I think what Wicker man is saying is to get to a higher level. What kind of relationship do you want? What are the characteristics of the type of person you want? What type of person do you need to be to attract that type of relationship?

It's a hard question to answer in the midst of all the anxiety you feel. It's even more difficult when you can only see her in black or white terms. But you might want to think about it some... .as much as you can.

What you liked about her is that she is good looking, very young, and she made you the center of her universe for 6-8 weeks. What you don't like about her is that she is an overloaded mother of two young boys who can't keep a schedule/balance priorities, is spontaneous (or inconsiderate if you are not on the receiving end). She withdraws when you push her too hard.

Young good looking girls with older men typically expect a relationship where the women is pampered and allowed to have their way (more so than in a more peer-to-peer relationship).

Can you be happy with this style of relationship?

Regardless of whether she calls you today or next week, do you have an answer for that which would be consistent 30 days in a row?

[Shawnlam]

Shawn, most of what I've been saying is that you have to stop making it worse before you can start making it better. I've encouraged you to get out of this reactionary mode where after you talk to her she is a good person who you want to build a relationship, but if she goes silent, you discount her as a messed up mentally ill lying/cheating/loveless person who must be doing something bad behind your back.

It's pretty weird, you admit that.

I think what Wicker man is saying is to get to a higher level. What kind of relationship do you want? What are the characteristics of the type of person you want? What type of person do you need to be to attract that type of relationship?

It's a hard question to answer in the midst of all the anxiety you feel. It's even more difficult when you can only see her in black or white terms. But you might want to think about it some... .as much as you can.

What you liked about her is that she is good looking, very young, and she made you the center of her universe for 6-8 weeks. What you don't like about her is that she is an overloaded mother of two young boys who can't keep a schedule/balance priorities, is spontaneous (or inconsiderate if you are not on the receiving end). She withdraws when you push her too hard.

Young good looking girls with older men typically expect a relationship where the women is pampered and allowed to have their way (more so than in a more peer-to-peer relationship).

Can you be happy with this style of relationship?

Regardless of whether she calls you today or next week, do you have an answer for that which would be consistent 30 days in a row?

All your questions towards me are valid skip but the answers are not so easy .IF she was a normal person I’d have an easy answer.Given she is not normal in anyway it’s pretty hard .Ive dated younger women with the same age gap about 10 years ,none were anywhere close to her.Its pretty abnormal to be 29 with two kids,3 abortions ,2 female friends and that’s it? Minus the huge entourage of men she keeps around her ,ex’s ,guys from work,customers etc.I refuse to see her as normal now that I know her better, 2 of her ex best friends that speak to me explained just hard abnormal she is.I wish it could be tied down to her being spontaneous and young but I’m afraid we are farcoutside that spectrum... .

So to answer your question,the longer I’m away from her the less I want her in my life.Too much volatility for me and frankly everyone else who left her and that number is impressive.I wish it was solely my doing that screwed this up then maybe there would be a chance to fix it because I’d just have to fix myself.Sadly if I could snap my fingers and have everything corrrected on my side(empathy,no anger, etc etc) it still fail.She is just too unstable,drinking heavy,drugs, sexual promiscuity, just those three things alone no matter how perfect my behavior could be wouldn’t go away... .making a relationship impossible.Love can’t fix her,logic can’t fix her,me fixing myself won’t fix her,being empathetic wont fix her.In her own words she said to me “ I need to fix something’s before I can have a normal life with you”.Never knew what that meant and I still don’t.

My therapist told me these facts about the present situation all my fault technically:
1: I’m looking for answers to many questions from her that I’ll never get because she herself is too damaged and doesn’t know the answers so I need to stop using logic to understand what’s not logical

2: you can’t pretend to accept someone for who they are when they themselves don’t know who they are.Stop trying to nail jello to the wall and again stop trying to use logic .

3: what I want is a loving reciprocal relationship which is completely impossible with someone this ill.Even on perfect behavior it’s a no go ,no matter how better I get she will find away to make sure it fails.

So in summary the longer I’m away from her the easier it’s becoming to move on.(plus the zero booze is truely helping me stay centered).Also the time I’m away I’ve kept busy ,I’ve continued therapy ,I still post and read here.Im back to weightlifting,boxing so all in all that should answer what I want .

[Skip]

I wish it was solely my doing that screwed this up then maybe there would be a chance to fix it because I’d just have to fix myself. Sadly if I could snap my fingers and have everything corrected on my side (empathy,no anger, etc etc) it still fail. She is just too unstable, drinking heavy, drugs, sexual promiscuity, just those three things alone no matter how perfect my behavior could be wouldn’t go away... .Love can’t fix her, logic can’t fix her, me fixing myself won’t fix her, being empathetic wont fix her... .

Can't argue this (highlighted). Fixing yourself has always been about you. Empathy skills will help you going forward, Shawn, in all relationships. Finding alternate ways to express disappointment (other than anger) will help you. No drinking will help you. We want you to be a better relationship person when you leave here. The past is past - the future can be better, more fulfilling.

There is an evolutionary reason relationship breakups hurt so much... .those that learned/adapted (learn better skills) bred more. I'm not suggesting that any of us need  to breed more, but I am saying that the pain is there to encourage us to adapt and avoid reliving it over and over.

Don't change to get the girl. Change because you need to.

My what I want is a loving reciprocal relationship which is completely impossible with someone this ill.

At 35,000 ft., anyone would say that if there is this much drama six months onto a relationship, it's best to cut your loses and move on - regardless of fault.  It's not the right time, right fit, the right circumstance, right combination.

All your questions towards me are valid skip but the answers are not so easy .IF she was a normal person I’d have an easy answer.

I think wicker man is trying to say that the answer of what you want in a relationship is not about her. It's about you.

For me, personally, I didn't find a truly solid relationship until I really understood what the 5 or 6 really important criteria were.

2: you can’t pretend to accept someone for who they are when they themselves don’t know who they are.

It sounds like you are making progress. Keep reaching.

What do you mean by "pretend to accept"? Interesting choice of words.

[Shawnlam]

When I was talking to my therapist I expressed it to him in a sense at the end I was trying to accept her ways ... .but I knew it wasn’t me to fold so much of own character and principles away .So like he said to me stop pretending 1st  and he pointed out stop pretending for someone who they themselves don’t know who they are which is even more futile

[Wicker Man]

The statement 'I love you' begins with 'I'.

Without a strong sense of self, being able to say 'I' with all sincerity the statement 'I loved you' is meaningless or even outright dangerous.  For someone suffering from Borderline personality disorder this appears to be all but impossible --for us mere neurotics it is still a herculean feat.

How much of my relationship's failure was due to my sense of self and how much was her identity crisis?  This will take me some time to unwind -but it is imperative for my future wellbeing. 

We all carry baggage and battle scars from our childhoods and past relationships, but it is through the admission and understanding of this concept which allows for healing and the potential for bettering ourselves.

Wicker Man

[Skip]

When I was talking to my therapist I expressed it to him in a sense at the end I was trying to accept her ways ... .but I knew it wasn’t me to fold so much of own character and principles away .So like he said to me stop pretending 1st  and he pointed out stop pretending for someone who they themselves don’t know who they are which is even more futile

In that context it makes sense. When people her say, can you accept them for who they are, it is a make or break question. To be with someone you have to accept and appreciate who they are and that is not always easy. If you can't, then you should leave. "Pretending" to accept someone for who they are is a bad thing for everyone. I like your therapist.

Are you coming close to committing to walk away - even if she calls you in the time frame you discussed and picks up where she let off?

I ask, because you have a history of flipping from one side of this viewpoint to the complete opposite extreme.

Which side viewpoint is pretending?

[Shawnlam]

Honestly I’m seeing any sort of continuous contact ,text,call,meeting as just prolonging pain.Trying to be friends would be equally a stupid idea since there is too many emotions involved so it can’t happen.So pretending would be to accept her texts and conversation and see her again VS telling her the truth would be better .I won’t “no contact” her because to me that’s unnecessarily mean ,I think I’d just come straight with her and say ,I don’t think I can be friends with you .I love you too much and we aren’t capatible so seeing you would just hurt me too much ,I’m gonna have to say goodbye and wish you the very best in your life little one.

[flourdust]

The statement 'I love you' begins with 'I'.

There is so much wisdom packed into this simple sentence.

[Cromwell]

Well I deleted her as a contact today ,and since I never knew her number by heart if she never texts me again I’ll never speak to her again.Its sorta of a test for me actually, if she truely only cares about herself I’ll never hear from her again,as for me I can’t text her even if I wanted to do it solves that problem

A good move I think, removes the impulsivity factor. Ive done the same about 3 or 4 days back. As for truly only caring about herself, if we try to get into the others mind it could equally appear from her side as

"ive not heard a thing from shawnlam, thats it, im deleting his number, hes got mine so lets just see if im worth contacting".

Then of course, you both never hear from each other again.

I just prefer that ive deleted her because, if I dont hear from her ever again (although I expect I will), it doesnt bother me regardless. If I do, I can decide how or if to respond. But deleting her number stopped the chance of me impulsivly texting her if I get in a state of feeling the urge to. A bit like what Wicker Man said about stopping smoking, why have a pack sitting on the mantelpiece.