Boundaries: He self-harms, refuses to give me space

[Awakeagain]

Hi there,
My husband was recently diagnosed, but I had already been reading Stop Walking on Eggsgells and trying to apply limit setting just based on my instincts. He had his first stay in the psych ward less than a month ago, and when he returned home I set some limits with consequences: if he self harms, sobs/wails or refuses to give me space when I ask for it then I will enforce a temporary separation. He is very aware of exactly what behaviour is "crossing the line," we have talked about it in detail. I kicked him out once when he crossed the line and it worked really well for both of us. The next time, however, our only vehicle was totally broke down so he had no means of getting away (we live in a very rural/isolated area, 1 hr drive to his back up place to stay). On top of that, it was Mother's Day and I knew my daughter really wanted us all to be together. So, instead, I made him take some quiet time away from me and sleep on the couch. Two days later he crossed the line again, and last night he went WAY over it. Now I feel distraught and confused, disappointed in him but also in me for wavering on my limit setting. But confused, since kicking him out no longer seems practical. Any advice or ideas of what to do next?

I am new here so will start reading. I have my own counsellor and try to work 12 step programs (al anon, coda) but it's all tough since I live in such an isolated area. Working towards moving to the city by July.

Thank you for reading

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi Awakeagain,



I hope others will join here in offering support and getting to know each other!

I'll dive in... .I used to do such things as this - keep my partner away from me when he was "misbehaving." I learned in time that was a big mistake. I am not saying what you are doing is, all our partners are different, my SO may have different issues than yours, but listen to this example.

My SO would act terrible and so I'd basically not want him near me. This would lead to more upset and hurt building up inside of him and then it would blow! Things would get even worse, he became more pushy and demanding and enraged and he kept upping the ante to get what he wanted.

I learned in time that touch and contact was important for him. So when he is upset and hurt, even if he made the mistake that caused the argument I made a "policy" that he could still come to me for hugs and comforting - that I would never be so mad that he was being rejected/pushed away. In time this began to have an effect on him. He felt safe and cared for and came to understand he would never be rejected. I admit to start it was not so easy, I had to grit my teeth a bit, but in time I found it was nice too. At least nice to know I was not adding to his painful emotional state and that I could help him stay calm and then there would be a chance for things to get better which was my goal. I could accept this because I knew it was going to give me a chance to have a calmer discussion with him rather than him fuming.

So some or none of that may apply to you, but I share it in the hopes that you might see that things that you are doing, if they don't work or make things better, can be changed. In the long run this did not make me feel used or like I was rewarding bad behavior. It made me feel like I was creating a safe space for comfort and an opening for an improvement. I prefer us to be on the same team, not be adversaries.

Tonight we were talking about some heavy subjects in our relationship and I made an effort to watch his emotions. I asked him when it was too much for him, I could see him shutting down, and then I ended the conversation and let him have his peace and myself mine. Again, small things, but they can make a big difference in him being able to stay more in control or blowing up and making life difficult for us both.

with compassion, pearl.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Awakeagain, joining pearlsw in welcoming you to the boards! 

You are quite ahead of the game in terms of the steps you've already taken to create boundaries. Good work!

Can you share a bit more about how he crossed the line? That would make it easier to share some ideas on how to enforce the boundaries.

~ROE

[Awakeagain]

Hello and thank you so much for the replies! I'll give some more info as I reply to each of you.

Pearl- I have tried that route (touching, hugging, giving empathy) and things got much worse. He slips into a victim role very easily, regresses and then does innapropriate, childish things that he knows bother me and eventually things explode. That is really how he ended up in the psych ward. I was trying SO hard to listen, help, give empathy and he became more and more helpless. The self harming (hitting himself, punching things) was frequent and intense and he threatened suicide more and more often. He was admitted to the hospital against his will due to risk of self harm, reported by a crisis line (he called, while we were having a massive fight - i left with my daughter when things got unsafe). He was then diagnosed with BPD, PTSD and admitted he has a drug addiction. He is a childhood sexual abuse survivor, perpetrators were mom and dad. We were working with a counsellor before who encouraged us to do what you are suggesting. It just isn't the right tactic for him/us, I think he needs to see that he support himself and I need to learn that I don't need to save him. The psychiatrist at the hospital suggested he - stop avoiding triggers, and said "you're not a victim anymore" over and over, anytime he tried to complain about his childhood or struggles. That tactic has been more effective, there have been some really positive changes since he came him from the psych ward.

ROE - the line he crossed was sobbing in front of me, not giving me space when I asked for it , and moping around our daughter. I realise that sounds a bit harsh as I write it, but it's not a matter of "you can't cry in front of me" it's more, "you are regressing and I refuse to take on the role of your mother." The psychiatrist explained to me that he is regressing so I will save him, like how an adult would save and comfort a distressed child. She thinks we need to stay away from that dynamic, and I agree since when I tried before to comfort him through his distress he got so much worse.

So since I wrote last: he was being very clingy, acting very childlike and oscillating from beging me to "just love him" to being very angry at me, rude and cold. We had a few blow up fights, I regret that I lost control and yelled and swore

[Awakeagain]

Looks like the reply got cut off, here's the rest:

After I lost control and yelled and swore. . . when I calmed down (the next day) asked him to take even more space. No physical contact at all, sleep in the RV in our yard and make his way to his friends house in the city ASAP. I enforced a longer and more solid separation plan. As soon as I upped the ante/made the consequence of space even more severe and rigid, he changed almost in an instant! It really appeared like he "snapped out of it!" Now he is set up to start a day program at the hospital for 2 weeks, starting Monday, and he got a job! He still expresses that he loves me and wants to work on our relationship, and is committed to me, and it sounds and feels healthier and more "normal" or balanced between us.

So apparently increasing the distance between us worked. He seems a billion times better, and we are not screaming at each other. But I am a bit sad. Do I need to keep increasing the severity of distance to keep us ok? Do we need to separate to be together? Do we need to live apart long term, or forever? Will I be happy with that?  Ugh. Maybe this is me being codependent now. . .I want him to be healthy AND I want him to be here with me! Is that too much to hope for?

[pearlsw]

Hi Awakeagain,

This sounds so painful and difficult! I am so grateful that you took the time to explain all the intricacies of this - that is very interesting.

What does the doctor say? Do you have to keep upping the distances? Are you sure this doctor understands his condition? I am definitely no expert, but this certainly makes me wonder if distancing him is exacerbating things. I can't say with any authority!

In terms of you getting your needs met what do you think is possible? Perhaps meeting up in neutral places if he can't be at your place as much as you like?

warmly, pearl.

[Awakeagain]

Hi pearl,

He met with his psychiatrist yesterday (a new one, an outpatient psychiatrist, referred by the one at the hospital) and she reiterated that space in our relationship sound good.
I am confused as to why you think distancing is exacerbating things? Can you expand on that for me?

[Awakeagain]

Hi again,
I've been browsing around here and think, Maybe, I was dealing with an "extinction burst"  since things seemed to get worse before they got better. . . and complicating things with "intermittent reinforcement" since I told him to leave once, and then let him stay the next time. Sheesh this is complex!

Maybe I need to work more on reinforcing the good behaviour?
 I.e. when he gives me space to bounce back/meet my own needs and/or he self soothes and makes himself available emotionally to support me and our daughter, I could reinforce that good stuff with the closeness we both want. I think I have been caught up in punishing, unfortunately, instead of meeting needs/responding to behaviour. I thought I had to persist with the punishment for a certain length of time or something. But I think now that I need to focus more on extinguishing until it actually gets better. Once it is better, I can reinforce that that's what I want by giving him what he wants, closeness. It's what I want too.

Thoughts? I am on the right track here?

[pearlsw]

Hi Awakeagain,

I would just be careful with your doctor's advice. Unless s/he really is up on this stuff certain suggestions could exacerbate things. I mean, since a person with BPD/BPD traits tends to have severe abandonment issues doing things that create more feelings of abandonment can lead to problems I'd imagine. That does not mean you can't take space and get away from them, but how you do it matters. Punishment should not be the point in any relationship. Boundaries are for you. They are to establish your limits, they are about punishing another person.

I think positive reinforcement helps a lot! I try to use that. It won't solve everything, but it is a good tool to put into your regular practice - with everyone in your life. I think even in relationships with nons partners can often become your biggest critic rather than trying to be your biggest supporter! And that is such... .such a let down for people and makes them not even want to bother.

take care, pearl.

[Awakeagain]

I hear what you're saying. Thank you pearl!
I'm glad I'm here.

[pearlsw]

Hey Awakeagain!

We're glad you're here! No one of us should have to face these struggles alone!

 

~pearl.