I want to be wrong

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

In exploring the question of emotional abuse and trauma in my r/s with my uBPDw (see this thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325235.0), I sent an email to our MC to let her know where I am emotionally.  The email is copied in the thread, and I sent it to my T ahead of today's session with her so that she would be aware.

In session today, I told my T that I really wanted to be wrong about what I wrote.  Writing out the letter was a good intellectual exercise to pull together what she and I have discussed over the past few months, what I have been reading, etc.  But the whole time, I wanted to be wrong.  I wanted it to be the result of my own cognitive distortions, own misinterpretations, and inability to be open/vulnerable.  She asked me why, and we touched on some possible reasons but didn't spend a lot of time focusing on that piece... .the priority was to address my increased anxiety due to the confrontation with uBPDw coming this Friday.

But since leaving the session (as usual), I have been thinking a lot about that "why"... .and I need to get it out.  So here it is:

I want to be wrong, because if I’m right then I have let myself be abused for years.

I want to be wrong, because then I didn't miss serious warning signs early on and get myself into a terrible situation.  And I wouldn't be conflicted over the fact that I can't regret my marriage because of the two wonderful children that it gave me.

I want to be wrong, because then it would make more sense for me to feel as bad as I do about devastating uBPDw by choosing to leave the marriage.   I should feel this way, shouldn't I?

I want to be wrong, because I don't want to be a victim.

I want to be wrong, because then maybe I don't have to spend the rest of my life alone.

There's a lot to work through there.  People can say, "oh, but you couldn't have known" and "you can still heal and overcome all of this" but really I can't internalize it right now--if ever.  It's why I keep going to therapy... .intellectually, I can argue with myself about all of those statements.  I keep reading posts here, and I have been reading other sources online, but I just can't believe the arguments for myself right now.

mw

[mama-wolf]

In exploring the question of emotional abuse and trauma in my r/s with my uBPDw (see this thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325235.0), I sent an email to our MC to let her know where I am emotionally.  The email is copied in the thread, and I sent it to my T ahead of today's session with her so that she would be aware.

In session today, I told my T that I really wanted to be wrong about what I wrote.  Writing out the letter was a good intellectual exercise to pull together what she and I have discussed over the past few months, what I have been reading, etc.  But the whole time, I wanted to be wrong.  I wanted it to be the result of my own cognitive distortions, own misinterpretations, and inability to be open/vulnerable.  She asked me why, and we touched on some possible reasons but didn't spend a lot of time focusing on that piece... .the priority was to address my increased anxiety due to the confrontation with uBPDw coming this Friday.

But since leaving the session (as usual), I have been thinking a lot about that "why"... .and I need to get it out.  So here it is:

I want to be wrong, because if I’m right then I have let myself be abused for years.

I want to be wrong, because then I didn't miss serious warning signs early on and get myself into a terrible situation.  And I wouldn't be conflicted over the fact that I can't regret my marriage because of the two wonderful children that it gave me.

I want to be wrong, because then it would make more sense for me to feel as bad as I do about devastating uBPDw by choosing to leave the marriage.   I should feel this way, shouldn't I?

I want to be wrong, because I don't want to be a victim.

I want to be wrong, because then maybe I don't have to spend the rest of my life alone.

There's a lot to work through there.  People can say, "oh, but you couldn't have known" and "you can still heal and overcome all of this" but really I can't internalize it right now--if ever.  It's why I keep going to therapy... .intellectually, I can argue with myself about all of those statements.  I keep reading posts here, and I have been reading other sources online, but I just can't believe the arguments for myself right now.

mw

[Cat Familiar]

So many members here, myself included, wonder how they let themselves get into such a mess of a relationship in the first place.

Most of us would have words of wisdom for a close friend who had found themselves in such a position, but how on earth did we end up here?

I like to think of the metaphor of the frog in boiling water. If a frog were to jump into hot water, he or she would immediately jump out, realizing that this is not a healthy or sustainable environment.

However, if the water is slowly heated on a burner, the frog doesn’t realize it’s getting hot and will stay in the water until it perishes.

You may think this is just a metaphor and that frogs don’t do this, but I can tell you from personal experience with an uncovered hot tub, that unfortunately this does happen.

So we begin our journey with our BPD loved one in the honeymoon phase and life couldn’t be more beautiful. Little by little the emotional abuse begins and we either rationalize it or discount it as an anomaly. Over time it increases and we continue to disbelieve. How could such a wonderful person as our partner be capable of such unpleasant behavior? Certainly we must be exaggerating or maybe those criticisms of us are true?

Then when we find ourselves in the boiling water, some of us end up here, wondering how on earth our dream relationship turned into such a nightmare.

[mama-wolf]

Thanks, Cat... .

I struggle to even talk about these things, whether it's here or in therapy.  I have written plenty on these boards, but as I get deeper into some of these feelings, it feels like attention-seeking.  I feel like some kind of impostor.  Surely I'm not experiencing what I think I'm experiencing.  It can't be as bad as I have described it.  I must have said it wrong.  I must be mistaken myself.  It's a really miserable feeling.

mw

[juju2]

Hi C.w.

it is that bad, and it isnt.  It is that bad from 30,000 feet.  Unfortunately, i cant see from there.

I make it not that bad.  It cant be.  He is just having a bad day.  Any excuse will do.

When i cant take it, the disorder he has that wants to destroy me, when i cant take it, i start to recover. 

its just a start.  Forgiveness of myself for believing, foegive him for being who he is.  He cant help it.

sincerely, j

[formflier]

MW,

You have a pretty good idea of my point of view on your relationship and BPDish relationships in general.  I like "happy" endings and frankly "I want you to be wrong too... ."

In life, we don't always get what we want.

That being said, there comes a time when (especially for emotional things) you have to take a rational and logical look... .and tie that in with your future.

You've done that... .clearly.  You are the decider in your life.  You "set the prices"... ."decide what is enough... ."  etc etc

There has been a big effort in MC and you've decided it's not enough.  That decision was done with the aide of a T and the support of this community.  So... it's unlikely there is angle that hasn't been explored... thoroughly.

On these boards we try to be careful to never suggest that people separate or file divorce "for the purpose of  showing their SO something".  The purpose of a separation is to separate... .period.

It is possible that this could be a wake up call, but that is unlikely.

And ultimately I would advise you to adopt a boundaries point of view.  You aren't wrong about what's good for your life.  Let your SO decide is she has been wrong in how she is going about things... .and if she wants to make changes.

Last:  Again... .stay rational and logical.  You just didn't understand... .so you made choices to stay.  Now you DO understand... .and are making different choices.  It really is that simple.

Don't beat up the "YOU" of last year because there was something the "old you" didn't understand.  Note:  Beating that "old you" up and being sad or even angry are totally different things.

My take:  You've got this... .even though it won't be pleasant.  Not everything will go according to plan... .don't let that derail you.  Understand the big themes of what you are trying to accomplish on Friday and over the weekend... .keep pointing back to that.

You've got this... .and you're not wrong.  I'm confident...

FF

[mama-wolf]

You've got this... .and you're not wrong.  I'm confident...

Thank you for this, FF.  It really helps, and now I have to hold on to it even tighter because uBPDw just sent me the below message.  It's really messing with me and is going to make Friday so much worse.

************
In all candor, I am trying to speak from my heart to yours:  I know that I have asked too much of you and that my dependency (co-dependency?) has contributed to much of the damage that has been wrought between us.  I was thinking about this while putting away laundry yesterday and I had a sudden epiphany, aka "Oprah AHA moment." 

When I spent so much time living alone between December 2001 through December 2002, I had to figure out how to be comfortable being alone or I would be unhappy -- really really unhappy.  At the point when I finally got there and stopped worrying that I needed to be in a relationship, to be someone else's "favorite person," then I got comfortable in my own skin.  I'd like to think that's part of what attracted you to me.

But now, 15 years later, particularly since the physically/mentally/emotionally draining experience of pregnancy and breastfeeding, I realize I have largely forgotten most of that work emotionally while living on my own.  I forgot how to look to you in addition to my friends, family and even myself.  I fell into looking only to you.  As a consequence, I have had the sh*t scared out of me since I found out that you told MC you had seriously considered separation/divorce.  What would I do if you left?  Who would I be?  What was I supposed to have done to earn your love?  Am I worthy at all unless I make you love me?

I also know that in the process, I have asked you to give up too much of yourself and your time, so much so that when you are trying to put up boundaries (reasonable boundaries) to spend time alone or doing something without me, I have fought against it.  I didn't realize what I was doing.

I really, really, really liked this blog post. I came to it through Brene Brown's Instagram account.  I wanted to share it with you and I really, really wanted to ask you to read it and see if we can discuss it with MC, too?

https://brenebrown.com/blog/2018/05/24/the-midlife-unraveling/

Favorite sentence:

"It’s a painful irony that the very things that may have kept us safe growing up ultimately get in the way of our becoming the parents, partners, and/or people that we want to be."
************

mw

[formflier]

Yeah... .I can see how that would "get in your head" a bit.

Listen... .what words do you plan on using on Friday? 

Are you going to say (which I doubt)... .that we are done... .there is nothing you can do... you could be perfect from now on and it is over?

I can actually see a way where some of the thoughts in this email... .could dovetail into "goals" for a separation.

Knowing what I know about how you feel about the relationship and it's chances, I would caution you against "giving a list" or assuring her that if 1, 2 and 3 are done you can get back together.

"We'll see... " and "perhaps" are words that I would advise you to consider... .(because you and I both know she will ask "why" and "what can I do".  Don't "stay there long"... .pivot to "we each need to work on ourselves" and "heal"... .focus on coparenting... .focus on a respectful relationship (don't define it)... .etc etc.

Anyway... .again... I get why this message would concern you.  Perhaps there is a way to use it to your advantage.

Perhaps print it off... .start the session of with talking about the "growth" that happened when being alone and being comfortable in your own skin.  (not sure here but you have a few days to think this through)

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I’m not saying the meaning of this message is to “re-hook” you, but I’m also not saying it isn’t.

My xBPDh would feel me gradually slipping away and he’d write me similar insightful things. I’d believe that he had finally “seen the light” and developed some empathy and compassion and understanding of my role and how he had treated me.

Nope. In his case, it was just a clever ploy and as soon as he re-hooked me, things went back to the way they were and all his new-found awareness disappeared.

Sometimes holding onto our truth and hardening our armor is needed. Talk is cheap.

[pearlsw]

Hi mama-wolf,

I don't have much to add to the really insightful and helpful comments from others here! I just want to thank you so much for sharing these thoughts and experiences with us. It always gives me a lot to think about... .getting to that moment where someone has to put a stop to things.

A big part of me naturally wishes it could work, it's sort of a default position, and because of that I want to try, but the pattern is pretty set and I don't think it will change or get better in all likelihood. Losing my relationship would be a tragedy for me, on the other hand freedom, as risky as it is, is better than feeling trapped or unfree (in my case) or having less happiness than I want out of life.

I hope you get to where you want to be with things. It is not always easy, but being decisive is a great strength!

take care, pearl.

[mama-wolf]

I can actually see a way where some of the thoughts in this email... .could dovetail into "goals" for a separation.

... .pivot to "we each need to work on ourselves" and "heal"... .focus on coparenting... .focus on a respectful relationship (don't define it)... .etc etc.

Solid advice, thanks FF... .Yes, I will try to find a way for this to lead to a productive discussion about being able to grow/heal and interact well with each other moving forward.  The marriage itself really is done from my perspective, but you're right that putting that in absolute terms tomorrow will not be productive for our long-term ability to work together as co-parents.

I see the hook inside the bait, Cat... .I'm not going to bite.   I had my suspicions, and appreciate the confirmation of the possibility.

And pearl, thank you.  None of us are walking an easy path, and it can be really hard to not only figure out what is right for us in the end, but deal with all the bumps and bruises (some self-inflicted) that we we may get on the way there.

She tried to bring up the email last night after getting home late (again), and I had just gotten into bed.  I told her I would read the blog post before our session with the MC on Friday.  She tried to press about what she actually wrote in the email, and I acknowledged what she said but told her I didn't want to talk about it right then.  She knows my boundary of going to bed at a particular time since I get up so early to exercise and start my workday... .talking about it would have kept me up for probably another hour and/or escalated into an argument.  She really didn't like me upholding the boundary, but she went downstairs to watch TV and let me go to sleep.

And I left off the part about the attachment that she also shared in that email, asking that we discuss it as well (image can be found at this link (https://cupofjo.com/2018/01/risks-worth-taking-mari-andrew/) )

So, this "self exploration" email was really a mechanism to once again turn my attention to my own avoidant behavior.  Between the quote she pulled from the blog post (a reference to her conviction about my own childhood causing me to be avoidant), and the attached image, she continues trying to pry me open with a crowbar.  What she doesn't get is that because of the damage she has done, she is the absolute wrong person for me to explore vulnerability and emotional intimacy with.

Oh, and she also did it again last night... .when she came in, she mentioned putting a new bottle of conditioner in the shower since she noticed I didn't have any more.  I was confused because I knew I had some and had used conditioner that morning, and I told her so.  With absolute certainty, she said "you used shampoo and thought it was conditioner."  A small thing in and of itself, but it really set me off.  She has no idea what I used or didn't use... .and she has absolutely no way of knowing what I thought or didn't think.  (In fact, D9 had borrowed my bottle of conditioner because she ran out).  But it is so characteristic of any interaction I have with uBPDw, and I even see it when she's dealing with the kids.  She decides (very quickly) what happened and who thought what, and that becomes her reality without any real attempt to understand otherwise.

So... .I want to be wrong.  But I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong.

mw

[Enabler]

Mama-wolf, it would appear you now see in colour, those 'tttzzzz' moments when the screen flickers and you think 'what the heck' are now seen with moments of clarity rather than moments of confusion and self doubt.

You are about to embark on a new part of your journey it would seem. I don't have much to add here other than to site another piece of Brene Browns work... .that of the anatomy of trust and her acronym BRAVING.  You need to be trustworthy in the process going forward. She needs to know that you mean what you say and you are going to do what you say you are going to do it when you are going to do it. Trust is not just necessary when things are good, but also when things are going to be bad, upsetting, unpleasant. A child whom lacks trust in it's parents steadfast resolve to discipline will push to change their parents minds and create more drama to change outcomes. If you are certain of the outcome, keep the path as clear and as certain as possible so she has absolute faith in your resolve.

B- Boundaries: You respect my boundaries, and when you’re not clear about what’s okay and not okay, you ask.  You’re willing to say no and you ask for what you need.
 
R- Reliability: You do what you say you’ll do.  This means staying aware of your competencies and limitations so you don’t overpromise and are able to deliver on commitments and balance competing priorities.
 
A- Accountability: You own your own mistakes, apologize, and make amends.  You don’t blame others for your mistakes and when you need to hold others accountable you do so honestly and with respect.
 
V- Vault: You don’t share information or experiences that are not yours to share.  I need to know that my confidences are kept, and that you’re not sharing with me any information about other people that should be confidential.
 
I- Integrity: You choose courage over comfort.  You choose what is right over what is fun, fast or easy.  And you choose to practice your values rather than simply professing them.
 
N- Nonjudgmental: I can ask for what I need, and you can ask for what you need.  We can talk about how we feel without judgment.
 
G- Generosity:  You extend the most generous interpretation possible to the intentions, words and actions of others.

As FF suggests, choose your words carefully such that you do not leave doors open you do not intend to leave open. Make the path as clear as you can.

[Red5]

Afternoon MaMa Wolf,

This is a crucial point (of this) for you, as I read the message from your wife, it made me think of a moment long ago when I was married to my first wife, .she had told me that "we need to talk"... .we climbed into her Durango and went down to the lake, and sat there for a moment, then she started talking to me (finally I thought, a gleam of hope here?), she said, "I have a problem, I have had a problem for a very long time, since before we even met... .there is something wrong with me, I think it has to do with what happened to me when I was a little girl", .she went on to say that as she continues to work on this (therapy), that things may get pretty bad; maybe... .well, she said;... .maybe even a bit "crazy"... .and boy was she right, .it was the twenty plus year point in our marriage, and we had already been through so much, and I had attributed it ALL to the abuse she had suffered so long ago even before we were married.

I remember thinking at that time, as I stared out the windshield of her truck, into the darkness... .and thinking, ."Thank God"... .she is finally going to crack this terrible thing that has been haunting her for so long now, .we are finally going to really make it, .our family, her... .me; our three children are going to be alright, ."oh' my God, thank you" I cried to myself... .you see; I had wanted for so long, for her to get the "right help"... .I tried to help her, but I could not, .I tried so hard to help her find a path to get mentally heathy, to be "healed" of that awful trauma that had been driving her so crazy for so long, this terrible thing that even after all these years, was tearing us apart, .this is what I thought... .at the time, I was completely oblivious to any terms such as ptsd, cptsd;... .BPD, npd, or any of the aforementioned as it were... .oblivious, ignorant, hopefully misinformed... .no clue at all.

That was the summer of 2004, .but alas... .it was going to be even worse than I thought it could ever have been, or could be yet, .the cheating, running away, suicidal intentions/ideations, destructiveness towards our marriage, our so called life together... .this misery (in me) that had occurred thus far, over years of time... .that I had thought maybe might be finally over now, .all that "we" had gone through already... .paled in comparison to what was about to happen... .I won't go into all it here, far too long of a story... .but she did leave me, and the kids yet again... .yes she left again, but in all "respects"... .she left behind everything, .and then we... .no;... .I finally divorced her in the first few months of 2006... .I had to let her go, .after fighting so hard for so long... .it wrenched my heart from my chest... .it was the hardest thing I have had to do in my life thus far.

You see, in order for her to come to terms, to survive even at all; at that point in her life, she had to be finally set free of ALL her life responsibilities, so that she could heal from her hurt, on her own terms, not mine, not our children, .no one else's but hers... .she had to be set free of everything, .me, the kids, our life together... .she had to let it ALL go... .it ALL had to go, .and she did just that, she let us all go, and everything we had ever been together, .gone;... .with the stroke of a judges pen on a spring afternoon back home in the same courthouse we got married in over twenty-one plus years before.

So I have said all that to say this... .please just be careful Mama-Wolf... .just be careful,

If I'd stayed in that marriage, it would have destroyed me, I did not know that "you cannot save them"... .I stayed too long, and she left on her own accord anyways, albeit very destructively, she did leave, .so I had to pick up the pieces, which did not include her, and "carry on"... .

And carry on I did, .and now, I am married again, to another person, a person whom I now have come to understand is also personality disordered... .I learned nothing in my previous marriage to prepare me for the next... .but alas now I have begun to "remember" the lessons life is trying to teach me... .finally I have... .

Cat wrote... .

So many members here, myself included, wonder how they let themselves get into such a mess of a relationship in the first place.

Most of us would have words of wisdom for a close friend who had found themselves in such a position, but how on earth did we end up here?

I like to think of the metaphor of the frog in boiling water. If a frog were to jump into hot water, he or she would immediately jump out, realizing that this is not a healthy or sustainable environment.

However, if the water is slowly heated on a burner, the frog doesn’t realize it’s getting hot and will stay in the water until it perishes.

So we begin our journey with our BPD loved one in the honeymoon phase and life couldn’t be more beautiful. Little by little the emotional abuse begins and we either rationalize it or discount it as an anomaly. Over time it increases and we continue to disbelieve. How could such a wonderful person as our partner be capable of such unpleasant behavior? Certainly we must be exaggerating or maybe those criticisms of us are true?

Then when we find ourselves in the boiling water, some of us end up here, wondering how on earth our dream relationship turned into such a nightmare.

I think, that as for me... .its not the frog in the pot, but its more of a "Hansel and Grettel" thing for me... .I was running, I was in pain... .and I found a nice warm house, and a kindly woman who "feels" sorry for me, who made me cookies... .and wants me to come inside, and go to sleep... .but her now perceived intentions/ideations are far worse than what the reality itself; that I thought was real, seems to even really be... .

Be careful Mama-Wolf,

Red5

 

[mama-wolf]

I am so grateful for this community... .

Mama-wolf, it would appear you now see in colour, those 'tttzzzz' moments when the screen flickers and you think 'what the heck' are now seen with moments of clarity rather than moments of confusion and self doubt.

You are about to embark on a new part of your journey it would seem. I don't have much to add here other than to site another piece of Brene Browns work... .that of the anatomy of trust and her acronym BRAVING.  You need to be trustworthy in the process going forward.

As FF suggests, choose your words carefully such that you do not leave doors open you do not intend to leave open. Make the path as clear as you can.

It's really hard to accept that my "vision" was so clouded before, but I do think you're right Enabler.  I have started noticing so many subtle things that I never picked up on before, and they're really starting to make me angry.  But I have to be careful with that, too.  And thanks for the BRAVING reference... .I will look into that more closely.

So I have said all that to say this ... .please just be careful Mama-Wolf ... .just be careful,

Thanks, Red5... .it's good to hear from you.  I saw your reply on the other thread and have been wondering how you have been doing.  I haven't had much chance to catch up on the latest in your situation.

I find myself going back to what my T said in session on Tuesday.  She said it's her job to be impartial, but that she is also obligated to speak up when she knows someone is suffering--and she said she can see that I have been suffering for a while.  If I find myself doubting my own perceptions and instincts, I know I can at least trust hers as a reality check.

mw