Was this a pwBPD?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi once. I haven't really gone back and forth on whether her behavior was horrid. Only on whether my reaction was. Or, more to the point, whether my justified reaction was and required an apology, whether she was a hurt and scared girl who deserved my sympathy. I most definitely got to "no" on this.

There really is not an 'aspect' as since I said most of my feelings and pain have turned to char and whisps. I get riled up sorry when it is implied over and over that I somehow invalidated some sweet girl that got tired of waiting for me while I rejected her sweet overtures of 5 Languages of Love and simply wanted to be courted like any woman does. I utterly reject that. I am not sitting around in pain, pining, kicking myself for how 'mean' I was I was f-ing awesome. I have -0% desire to send her any apology or Little Prince or beautiful letter, she is the last person/woman who deserves it and in fact deserves everything she has coming.

I've found some amazing supportive women around me who to confirm my behavior and more importantly my worth. I stupidly let a really worthless woman tie me into knots because I let meyself get lonely and closed off. In the 7 weeks since this ended I have worked through most of this (thanks partially to bpdfamily!), gotten myself close to the best shape in my life, and seeem back on the radar of women everywhere. I always WAS before I just forgot and got myself so tied up into one person's opinion and support of me I forgot all that.

it was. with the exception of today, though, youve gone back and forth on some of this. theres real hurt and regret here. most of us (around 80%) arrive at bpdfamily in a state of depression. it exacerbates everything about it really.

what aspect of this do you think it would be most helpful to focus on and talk about right now? think of these things, if you will, as back pain. i know there are many; lets pick a knot and work to unwind it.

[1stTimer]

Hi once. I haven't really gone back and forth on whether her behavior was horrid. Only on whether my reaction was. Or, more to the point, whether my justified reaction was and required an apology, whether she was a hurt and scared girl who deserved my sympathy. I most definitely got to "no" on this.

There really is not an 'aspect' as since I said most of my feelings and pain have turned to char and whisps. I get riled up sorry when it is implied over and over that I somehow invalidated some sweet girl that got tired of waiting for me while I rejected her sweet overtures of 5 Languages of Love and simply wanted to be courted like any woman does. I utterly reject that. I am not sitting around in pain, pining, kicking myself for how 'mean' I was I was f-ing awesome. I have -0% desire to send her any apology or Little Prince or beautiful letter, she is the last person/woman who deserves it and in fact deserves everything she has coming.

I've found some amazing supportive women around me who to confirm my behavior and more importantly my worth. I stupidly let a really worthless woman tie me into knots because I let meyself get lonely and closed off. In the 7 weeks since this ended I have worked through most of this (thanks partially to bpdfamily!), gotten myself close to the best shape in my life, and seeem back on the radar of women everywhere. I always WAS before I just forgot and got myself so tied up into one person's opinion and support of me I forgot all that.

it was. with the exception of today, though, youve gone back and forth on some of this. theres real hurt and regret here. most of us (around 80%) arrive at bpdfamily in a state of depression. it exacerbates everything about it really.

what aspect of this do you think it would be most helpful to focus on and talk about right now? think of these things, if you will, as back pain. i know there are many; lets pick a knot and work to unwind it.

[once removed]

youve gotten to no on sending a letter, you were awesome, she was scum, youre in great shape and back on the radar? all is good?

come on, man 

i felt that way too, for all of five minutes at a time.

im not pissing on the steps youve taken. theyre good steps. not saying she didnt act badly. she did. and im not saying you should over indulge any pain you are or arent in. you shouldnt.

im saying this stuff hurts; if i hadnt really worked through it, i think it might have permanently damaged me. and that if you want to talk about it, we are listening.

[1stTimer]

Hmm I do appreciate the 'if you want to talk about it we are here to listen' and will most definitely take you up on the kind offer.

However I do feel I've passed a milestone. I was up, down, sad, back and forth for weeks and for whatever reason the convo with Skip yesterday pushed me past a point of no return. I'm very clear on what happened at least in terms of what was wrong, my actions, and the fact I will not ever send the letter or WANT TO. I in fact have a lot of internal fortitude after the last 15 years, this just skidded me out of control because I opened parts of myself I boxed away. One thing I always told her and youd' think someone who cared would treat that with care. She didn't (care). I have an advantage here in that I never loved her or saw her as any part of my future; I just bough in for a day or a week on a future of mine I'd lost.  But I'm not sliding back to oh oh I'm sorry or I need to go send some amazing letter to show her how I felt because a) I never felt that way b) she never deserved it.

I'm past a critical point of no return and healing and she has no sway over me.

youve gotten to no on sending a letter, you were awesome, she was scum, youre in great shape and back on the radar? all is good?

come on, man 

i felt that way too, for all of five minutes at a time.

im not pissing on the steps youve taken. theyre good steps. not saying she didnt act badly. she did. and im not saying you should over indulge any pain you are or arent in. you shouldnt.

im saying this stuff hurts; if i hadnt really worked through it, i think it might have permanently damaged me. and that if you want to talk about it, we are listening.

[once removed]

One thing I always told her and youd' think someone who cared would treat that with care. She didn't (care).

do you want her to reach out? what would you do if she did?

[1stTimer]

I do not want her to reach out. I don't think she'd even have the ability to reach out 'honestly'. I think she WILL reach out. Each day I get closer to I'd either not reply or all or be utterly blase about it as I was when she reached out whilst pursuing me. She will/would be surprised if she took my letter to heart. I will tell her this: I wrote that letter for me not you. It was not an inviation it was a goodbye. And I wrote it because that time was the most toxic disturbing interaction I've ever had with a human being and I decided the way to take the beautiful parts that were me and leave the other parts behind where the belonged was to say those parts out loud. You can do whatever you like with it.

do you want her to reach out? what would you do if she did?

[once removed]

Each day I get closer to I'd either not reply or all or be utterly blase about it as I was when she reached out whilst pursuing me. She will/would be surprised if she took my letter to heart. I will tell her this: I wrote that letter for me not you. It was not an inviation it was a goodbye. And I wrote it because that time was the most toxic disturbing interaction I've ever had with a human being and I decided the way to take the beautiful parts that were me and leave the other parts behind where the belonged was to say those parts out loud. You can do whatever you like with it.

so, essentially, youd do everything you did all over again?

[1stTimer]

I would not. I'd likely have still gotten drawn into the intial relationship in December, she was very cool then despite not having any great love/attraction there was something nice.

Where it went off the rails no I would not.

More likely when she had the whole 'slept with the guy gonna date the guy would cheat on him' I'd have ended it because clearly there is no way to talk yourself back from that. She made it clear she was an entirely different person than I am value wise and otherwise. Even with any 'just to make you jealous' etc I'd have been clear that that was the case and cut my losses early.

On the day I left and didn't stay over and she texted 'is it because of things I am working on?" I id' ask if you mean by that 'fidelity' yes it was, I cannot have a relationship with someone who does not feel about that the way I do and clearly, working on it or not, you do not. I don't date people whose word I don't trust, who I wonder about when they say they are tired or sick or busy, who need a 'contract' to not invite another person into our bed. Good bye.

If we got to the point where she needed me to ask I'd have a similar conversation.

If I got to the point where she asked me to confirm and told me she hadn't had a real relationship in ten years I'd ask her to be very clear why.

If she told me 'there are things about me you need to know' I'd say 'Then tell me before we move on' instead of blowing it off

If she pulled the same 'we are committed until you ask officially' I'd say we are not committed then.

Mainly however I think we'd never get there as my year of keeping her at arms length because not only was I not attracted all my instincts said 'stay away' would have kept me away.

In terms of how I'd treat her; I do not think so. Could I have 'courted' her more? Perhaps but I was in fact broke and she knew it. I treated her with as much respect and affection and support honesty as you can treat another human being and I think I bent over trying to accomodate her needs and fears.

Oh and the final day; well since I'd sent myself an email the night before predicting what she would do and say and had it READY on my phone when she had me meet her yes, I'd have steeled myself to be surprised ANYWAY and handled it with far more aplomb. I'd have still walked out but done it much more calmly and never have emailed her again.

Oh. I'd have beem much more demanding sexually and much less giving. at least I'd have a, pardon the TMI, orgasm to show for the whole thing :|

so, essentially, youd do everything you did all over again?

[once removed]

i dont mean would you change how you behaved in the past.

i meant

or be utterly blase about it as I was when she reached out whilst pursuing me.

... .

I will tell her this: ... .

I wrote it because that time was the most toxic disturbing interaction I've ever had with a human being

i read this as "i would either play hard to get or tell her to shove it". "if she reached out, id do the stuff i did before."

am i reading it wrong?

[1stTimer]

i read this as "i would either play hard to get or tell her to shove it". "if she reached out, id do the stuff i did before."

am i reading it wrong?

Yes. I'm not good at communicating anymore apparently :|

With each passing day I return to the disinterest I had in her all along, as the shock and pain of what happened and what I opened myself up to out of not only being worn down but needing 'that' in my life. I never played 'hard to get' I was 'hard to get' i.e. not interested. You'd have to be when a woman tells you she bought a new dildo and wants you to use it on her and you haven't had sex in years to boot. Each day as the pain of what happens wears off, which is basically reconnecting to the needs I had that I put aside for a long time, I lose any actual connection/need/attachment to her. Thus I'm saying my options would be either polite disinterest or if she pressed not telling her to 'shove it' per se but to let her know the true meaning behind the letter she is probably taking both as a a 'love letter' and an inviation to retun to me when she is ready. It is neither and I regret that in a moment of shock/pain/confusion missing 'her' whic hwas in fact missing human connection I'd deprived myself of I said things that gave her power and validation she did not deserve.

[once removed]

i can relate in a lot of ways.

i can sit here and tell you how many times i tried to break up with my ex. how desperately and frequently during the relationship i fought for space. how i often had one foot out the door. to oversimplify, thought she was more into me than i was her. that i could walk away at any time, and she couldnt.

so how can we fall for someone we are disinterested in? how can we be devastated when they walk?

attachment styles have a lot to do with it, as does a vulnerable time in our lives; youve touched on some of this, and there are other factors. finding the answers to those questions is like following a string that gets us closer to detachment.

she is probably taking both as a a 'love letter' and an inviation to retun to me when she is ready. It is neither and I regret that in a moment of shock/pain/confusion missing 'her' whic hwas in fact missing human connection I'd deprived myself of I said things that gave her power and validation she did not deserve.

are you kicking yourself for the letter and want the opportunity to give her a piece of your mind?

[1stTimer]

I'm 50/50 on the letter so I wouldn't say "kicking myself". As with my reactions here my reaction to is is all over the place:

- Glad I got to close with something nice. All in all even with all the s*** she brought some important things into my life and I did withhold a lot. Not that I could have given any of that at that time and not that if I could I would have wanted to but... .I did. So a bird's eye view is at least  I got to leave her with that vs the uncertainty and then spending her life thinking I hated or hate her. So the 'Good Guy' part of me is glad

- Glad I closed the letter on a nice note that also reinforced what I said when I left; my heart is open I'm going to go date. In part as a 'nyah nyah' of course, in part because it didn't make me seem as if I'm waiting but as if I've moved on. So even though in one way it gives up some power, it also is a pretty powerful statement; I really cared about you, good bye, good luck and what you brought into my life is openess to dating/love (which she wanted from me) with other people and we'll both thank you for it

- Pretty clear I'd not have had a reach out from her which to this DAY blows my mind so at least I reached out and got... .something. What that 'thanks for the nice note' was is anyone's guess and opens as many questions as not reaching out but it is something.

- And of course pissed I reached out at all and didn't just maintain the powerful stance of '___ off you were crazy I knew it but I got something out of it an open hear and going to go date' and then disappearing into the sunset.

In terms of the attachment, I totally get what you mean on what happened in your case, my very first relationship was like that (in fact with "Love of Live" one of the issues was it was first time it was really reciprocal).

However my issue with this one is not that she could walk away. I sorta figured at some point she' say I'm going to start dating. Not the dishonest way she did, not the way she managed to keep me in and draw me in at the same time (not to mention, if she was telling the truth and not manipulating me, jeapordize my sexual health). I point out to Skip with his 'the magic wore off' possibility on her end that she could have/should have not continued to AND increased her demands on me for parts of myself she knew, as a FRIEND, were near impossible for me to share.

She told me as much in a way when she said 'after you refused to discuss not moving to Cali I stopped pursuing you' (this was a month before this whole debacle). I said 'how is giving me th keys to your apartment, giving me drawers in your bedroom, telling me you are falling in love with me, telling me we have our lives to figure it out, telling me these are men meant nothing and it is me you want a relationship with,etc not pursuing me? So I have less of 'this person was more into me and walked away' then 'i had this person who was more into me, worked tirelessly to prove that I was as into them and dumped me and left my life without a word or glance back the moment I did'.

I'll tell you I sitll have moments during the day when I ask myself how wherever she is she is not reaching out or thinking of me. Naturally as we all do we think 'the worst'; because she is totally in love with someone new, having the best sex of their lives and you don't even cross their minds. However I realize as much as she just disappeared from me without looking back I largerl did that to her; walked out, said I'm dating other people and except for the nice letter never texted, called, emailed. In fact after her reply which was something of an open door I STILL never reached out once. So it is possible she has her own 'how can he not call me' and in her case it is less of a mystery and more of bias confirmation: he was never interested.

I think part of her DID run because of that; she said a few things that day e.g. 'you never kiss me first' and she expressed surprised I liked it when she sat in my lap and kissed me during dinner and even asked if I asked her to be with me because she went on a date. She had doubts and they were probably valid.

So much of this is just an intellectual exercise for me from weeks of obsessive thinking about something and somoene I should not have obsessed about. I can't remember what she looks like or sounds like. Here is an interesting thing though; her apartment I can picture in detail. Why? Because I've been stuck in my family apartment for years after helping out and being unable now to escape until I get this business off the ground fully. Not a bad place but not mine and not a door to close, just a couch each day. Her place became a refuge for me. A place with a door and privacy that was "mine" and for me and my life. Kissing her, making love to her, even talking to her don't really tweak me, nor really does her with someone else. Two things tweak me; 1) not getting the texts each day (a connection to the real world and someone thinking about me 2) her sharing the apartment, couch space with somoene else. Weird huh?

i can relate in a lot of ways.

i can sit here and tell you how many times i tried to break up with my ex. how desperately and frequently during the relationship i fought for space. how i often had one foot out the door. to oversimplify, thought she was more into me than i was her. that i could walk away at any time, and she couldnt.

so how can we fall for someone we are disinterested in? how can we be devastated when they walk?

attachment styles have a lot to do with it, as does a vulnerable time in our lives; youve touched on some of this, and there are other factors. finding the answers to those questions is like following a string that gets us closer to detachment.

are you kicking yourself for the letter and want the opportunity to give her a piece of your mind?