Still "bettering", but taking therapeutic separation. I wrote him this letter:

[BasementDweller]

After an extended impasse, and a 6 week period of severe dysregulation and dissociation from my partner, and no ability on my part to successfully cope or validate enough, I've taken the decision to have a therapeutic physical separation from my partner. I will rent a flat a few kilometers down the road so we both can return to baseline, heal, and repair. We are not broken up, but needing space. We will not go NC, but will "unentrench" for a while, agreeing that the door is open when and if we wish to utilize that. We will visit and date when ready. I can return home when we both agree the time is right. That's the plan.

Backstory here:
Part 1. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325320.0

Part 2. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325684.0

Since this last rough stage started, I have done some serious soul searching, and went on a "re-conn" mission to our old emails that we used to exchange in the beginning when we first began to date. I wanted so badly to understand how we came to this, and I know it's not all his fault. Through all the FOG, I had forgotten that we once were a bit opposite in our roles. I was the one who needed a ton of space, and he was the one trying to connect, and in retrospect - we had our odd little bickerings from the outset, but he was (is) a really good man who was doing his best. I share the blame in our troubles. I failed to understand his complexities in so many ways. I am only just now beginning to do so. (Thanks largely to this board, and all of you!)

I will be moving to the new place in a few days, and wrote him this today:

Time and space

***************************************************************

I've thought about things at great length and pondered how and where I have gone wrong in the past with you. Then I realized the term "wrong" is a little short-sighted. Unhelpful, ineffective, or inaccurate are more specific and actually indicate WHAT is wrong, and looking at it like that can lead to some helpful solutions.

I asked myself if I were to change the word "wrong" to those more specific terms, what would I do differently, and what would I say next?

With that in mind, I would definitely change or adjust the way I respond to things, and listen better. I'd wait to respond until I'd carefully considered what you were saying (and also try to read between the lines more) to see if I could determine or understand what you were TRYING to say - because sometimes I can make assumptions about what's intended and I can be wrong. I should not respond to what I THOUGHT I heard - but what was actually meant. I would ask for clarification if needed.

So in the future, I will make every effort to implement those tactics. Rather than using my own brand of logic to make counterpoints to things that don't even require them, I would listen more and talk less. (My former roles in academia as the analytical "captain of the debate team" don't really help me in a romantic relationship.) But that's not all there is to me. Just one feature that I don't need to utilize ALL the time. ;-) I get it now. I'm sorry for any trouble that I have caused by overthinking so many things. I'm sorry for any time I have ever hurt you.

The next thing I'd tell myself is to learn from my mistakes, slow down a bit, and listen and process what I am being told and "take it in" more. For starters... .

I reread a lot of the old emails that we exchanged in the past, when we first started dating, and I had an epiphany. We were both kind of fumbling in the beginning, awkwardly trying to navigate our way with each other, and both a bit insecure and also really wanting to get it right... .but also both a bit older and cynical and having had some previous bad experiences that had made it hard to trust in love. (Welcome to the human race.) We both were pretty clear about our boundaries and sensitivities, and we both knew we had our challenges ahead, but that there was also a lot of love there, pretty quickly out of the starting gate. We agreed to do this, after we'd put everything out on the table. We were honest with each other. I love that about us. We have always from the beginning accepted each other, even if we forgot that at times in the heat of a conflict.

You have always done your best to do right by me, and respected that I was slow to warm. You went out of your way to do kind things for me and oh, how you made/make me laugh. We had hilarious exchanges about so many sophomoric and gross things. We truly have the same stupid humor. (Which can sometimes get forgotten when adult responsibilities and challenges enter the relationship.)

You to me, 2.5 years ago: "And I have realized that I have been wrong about many things, and many things about you and I'm sorry for that.
One of those things is that I think I haven't been that affectionate towards you. And that might be one of the being-gentle things that you ask from me.
But there are some reasons for that.
One is because I have been trying to be respectful towards you in the sense of taking baby steps (that you actually requested) and not coming on too strong. (Knowing your story behind it and all)
And the other is that I've gotten the feeling that you're not the close and cuddling type. But I think you actually might be… You've never turned me down when I've wanted to hug you. But it is also me being cautious and a bit nervous cuz I'm not sure what you think about me.
Because I really want to! I want to take you into my arms and hug you
And put my big hands on your body…"

Thank you for those beautiful words. You really do "get me" and I love your insight. You were the one who was trying to bring me out of my shell and offer affection, but on my own terms which was "baby steps". The tables have turned a bit, and that's ok, I will do the same for you now. Time and space.

That letter was when I fell in love with you for real. That is the man I know and love, and the man that I know you are. You demonstrated to me right there that you really were the best man I'd ever met, and I know you meant those words. I have always loved you for that. You truly are a very, very good man. That is why I still love you. Thank you for being you, and for sharing your life with me. It's a true gift to know you.

Somewhere along the line, we lost our way in some ways, and forgot a lot of what we talked about in the beginning. We got so caught up in putting out fires that we stopped working on how to prevent them - even though we knew how to do that in the beginning. Perhaps we got complacent. I can see now it was both of us - neither of us is easy. The sad part is, we opened up a lot at first and warned each other about our quirks and insecurities, and we were for all practical purposes, off to a good start.

Then we both were possibly guilty of trying to "fix each other" rather than accept each other, and grow together. Or maybe we got impatient with the reality that any good relationship requires hard work throughout and not just beautiful promises in the beginning. But man, the good times were good, and there SO were many! I think the bad times hurt SO bad because they were such a stark, and startling contrast to the deep, respectful love we were capable of, and often felt for each other.

There was more diplomacy between us in the beginning.

You to me, 2.5 years ago: "And I don't think that you have been unkind in any way.
I actually appreciate the way you are even though a little defensive some times, but it's still ok by me.
I think a can understand what you've been through. I think I can understand your hurt. I've also had a lifetime of experiences so I think I can relate. It is what it is and you are where you are at the moment and I respect that.
You are a really good, honest person.
About the argue and bickering.
I don't take it that seriously. To me it feels like getting to know each other. And I think it's good that you are being straight on who you are, what you like and what you don't. In short, it's all good
BUT! Indeed, I can behave childish sometimes, I know. I agree that we can try to be nicer."

As can happen to anyone, we both got frustrated at times, and it became difficult to get back to basics - the part where we tried to understand each other and work together like we so earnestly did when we started all this. That's what fell by the wayside, and that's what I want to return to - but in a better position, having hindsight and knowing what we know now.

We were never perfect, but we were a bit smarter back then, maybe. I think we got too caught up in our battles in the moment to really recall what we started out trying to do - love and respect one another the best way we possibly could, consistently, and with patience. I know this can be salvaged. It's going to require going back to basics, exploring our original intentions, and applying the things we learned NOT to do over the last two years to what we actually wanted TO do in the beginning, and want for the future. And do it right. Somehow. I didn't put all this time, effort, and love into this with the intention of failing. Being a resourceful and dedicated man, I doubt you did either.

You to me, 2.5 years ago: "I'm really glad to have met you!
You are really fun to hang out with, sit and chat with….
Damn, I like you. And best of all; your humor and intelligence. Love it" :-)


You had me at hello too. ;-)

You gave me time, space, and understanding in the beginning when I needed it most. Thank you. It's your turn to need it now. I'll give that to you.

I love you.

***************************************************************

BPD fam: If I said everything wrong it's too late. I sent it already.  But I really wanted to be honest and shoot from the hip. For once, I wanted to speak from the heart and NOT overthink.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi BD,

Wow. Just wow. I think I fell a little bit in love with your love letter!  

That was so sweet and loving. I hope he keeps it and rereads it many times to see your really good intentions here. Oh my! Whew!

How do you think he'll take this?

I really admire that you can still find love within yourself for your partner after all that's happened. My tank is pretty low and I am debating with myself whether I give this relationship another big push, find a way to love him again, or I just toss it all and leave it behind me. These are not easy decisions, but they have to be made to move life forward.

This apart time sounds like a great option - wish we'd had that along the way, could have made all the difference. Oh, you bring out my very secret hidden romantic side! I hope this works out for you as you'd like it too! Really! You two started out with so much love!

with compassion and hope, pearl.  

[Radcliff]

BD, that was fantastic.  Your love for him really shines through!  Let us know what happens next.  I'm not going to help my reputation as a book geek here, but your note reminds me of a passage in John Gottman and Nan Silver's, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, where Gottman says that one of the most powerful ways he can tell if a marriage is in trouble is by listening to the couple tell their origin story.  Once things go south, a couple can take the same set of facts that used to be a glowing story, and say them with a negative spin.  Returning to your origin story and telling it with love was brilliant.  Absolutely brilliant.

WW

[WileyCoyote]

BD,
   You should be proud of this letter.  Not only is the love palpable, I see you really finding your "self" here, and not only that... .trusting it!   

[BasementDweller]

Ok, guys... .I'm tearing up a bit at the outpouring of support here. Thank so much for your kind words - and for recognizing my genuine motivation here.

It's true - my love for him, despite all the turmoil of BPD is real and genuine, and I do see so many wonderful things in him.

Hi BD,

Wow. Just wow. I think I fell a little bit in love with your love letter!   

That was so sweet and loving. I hope he keeps it and rereads it many times to see your really good intentions here. Oh my! Whew!

How do you think he'll take this?

Really! You two started out with so much love!

Thank you, pearl... .I hope the same. I felt a really massive sense of relief, and a lot of stress and anxiety immediately came up off my shoulders once I sent the letter and re-read it. I finally felt for once like I was really doing the best I can, and that my intentions ARE good. I had started to doubt myself after failing to make him truly happy, and it wore heavily on me. But I genuinely believe now that I DO want what is best for him, even if I didn't always know what to do and how to do it. I can't beat myself up for that anymore, however, OR let him do it.

I am sure he has read it by now, and I only saw him briefly in passing yesterday evening after I sent the letter. I went out with friends after work and came home quite late. He was on the couch watching TV, and I greeted him, and made myself a snack. I asked how he was, and he looked a little defeated and said "He did absolutely nothing today". His body language indicated he was sad and pensive... .which is strangely a good sign. He is thinking about things, and not exhibiting hostility. I have learned about him that this is his way of showing some sort of remorse, or at least thoughtfulness and introspection.

I was kind, but did not rescue. I told him I was going straight to bed because I had to work early in the morning. He looked downtrodden and apprehensive. I knew this meant he'd be sleeping in the basement. I said "Are you sleeping downstairs tonight?" He nodded solemnly. I said "Sleep well" and offered a fist bump. He accepted it and bumped back.   

This may sound a bit cold on my part, but rescuing and trying to draw him back in NEVER works when he is in this much of a state. I showed I care by being nice, and giving the fist bump, but also the space. He sleeps in another room when he feels shame or rejection (or anger which isn't the case right now.) I believe my letter reminded him of the fact that we are a real couple, and what we have is beautiful and not really something to throw away. Coming to terms with this, and his part in the turmoil will not be easy. And I won't force him into anything. He can take this time to think, and decide when he wants to work on repair and restoration.

There has always been a lot of love between us, not only in the beginning, but up until this last prolonged dysregulation. We fought, but always found our way back. A significant part of his recent state is due to our conflicts of course, but starting therapy has been really hard for him, as it is dredging up a lot of old trauma. He's been having issues with other family members, and problems with his sons and how they are not coming home right now, because he's such a mess, emotionally speaking at this time - he has a lot going on. He's really far down the rabbit hole.

BUT - he's coherent now, even if depressed, not acting out in a harsh way, and not hostile. He is very slowly returning to some kind of baseline. I really do care about his well being and while I won't rescue or coddle anymore, I'll keep a patient and watchful distance. If he wants to connect or reach out, I will be receptive. But any kind of pull on my part would not be wise yet. So I shall ride it out. Ugh. I miss him so much.

[BasementDweller]

Hi BD,

I really admire that you can still find love within yourself for your partner after all that's happened. My tank is pretty low and I am debating with myself whether I give this relationship another big push, find a way to love him again, or I just toss it all and leave it behind me. These are not easy decisions, but they have to be made to move life forward.

I hear you, and that's a tough place to be in. I know that you two have had a much longer go of it than my partner and I have (you have been married 7 or eight years now, right?) I am at the 2.5 year mark with him, and want to take this therapeutic distance now, and hope there is something left to salvage, and enough left to rebuild. The hardest part is that I still have all the love in the world for him, but his internal defense mechanisms, so finely honed from years of abuse and neglect from his mother, are fiercely on point. He can shut down in an instant, and turn off like a light - or at least appear convincingly to do so. I used to hang my fears and happiness on those times, and I realize I have to take back the power and stop doing that. It's his own battle to fight in his own head. I can neither fight it or fix it. I can only be quietly supportive and understanding when he is ready to be open to that.

Depending on how things go with us, I may or may not find myself where you are at now someday.

Do you still love him, or have you shut off in your own type of self-preservation mode? (Totally understandable, if so.) Do you WANT the end goal to be a mending of the relationship, if that's possible? Does it seem now like he is trying for that?

Hugs 
BD

[pearlsw]

I hear you, and that's a tough place to be in. I know that you two have had a much longer go of it than my partner and I have (you have been married 7 or eight years now, right?) I am at the 2.5 year mark with him, and want to take this therapeutic distance now, and hope there is something left to salvage, and enough left to rebuild. The hardest part is that I still have all the love in the world for him, but his internal defense mechanisms, so finely honed from years of abuse and neglect from his mother, are fiercely on point. He can shut down in an instant, and turn off like a light - or at least appear convincingly to do so. I used to hang my fears and happiness on those times, and I realize I have to take back the power and stop doing that. It's his own battle to fight in his own head. I can neither fight it or fix it. I can only be quietly supportive and understanding when he is ready to be open to that.

Depending on how things go with us, I may or may not find myself where you are at now someday.

Do you still love him, or have you shut off in your own type of self-preservation mode? (Totally understandable, if so.) Do you WANT the end goal to be a mending of the relationship, if that's possible? Does it seem now like he is trying for that?

Hugs  
BD

Hey BD!  

I think we've been legally married since 2013. I am not sure. We never celebrated our wedding anniversary, not once, and... .it all happened in a weird way. Yep. We are at about 7.5 years total now.

It’s hard to say. He went a few steps too far this year. Him going behind my back and disclosing our private problems to family was a step too far for me. He knew I was not close with them for many years for various reasons and it was a big stab in the back. I will not drop this. He damaged me for life, on purpose. Well, he may think he was trying to help himself, but let’s be honest, at my expense. He does seem to get this was a big mistake, but he can’t repair it now.

I don’t mind the truth being out. I don’t fear the truth. But this forced me to disclose his stuff too so people could understand the balance of things - the whole truth - and now they see him as pretty awful. So, he blew things for us with all of them and he blew a lifetime of my personal privacy. I’m pretty pissed about this. I value privacy a lot.

The other big thing were his suicide threats and just the misery (my apologies to anyone suffering from depression) of living with someone with untreated depression for many years. He has medication now, but still…he said a lot of ugly things to me. I was never verbally abused before him and I won’t tolerate that either. He is sweet as can be in a white phase, but speaks in vile ways when in a black one… so all good gets cancelled out.

After all this I am just not sure I like him that much anymore, enjoy him that much. He is life-draining. I was giving my all and then some for many years, to have it constantly thrown back in my face. I know this is not what love is. I’ve dated nons and I have not forgotten. I have other reference points. It’s hard because I would take care of an ill person, but…this is an illness that is very powerful and destructive in ways other illnesses aren’t. I may have reached my limit…and I feel horrible about that, but life is running out for me too…and I’ve spent far too much of it being less than happy.

My heart is moved by him sometimes, but my heart does not jump. I forget to write him while he is at work, I do not ever day dream about him, or think/want to call him. I’m not excited/dreaming of making love to him. He is like a needy child in many ways. Sigh. His energy, his basic energy, is just so…too much. I am calm. He is…him. As nice as he can be, it can turn ugly in an instant. That makes it hard to relax and be really happy.

He does make me laugh. I love his laugh. He has a wonderful laugh and our humor works well. If we break up I will miss our jokes, but…life goes on.

He has made improvements in many areas, but still…Is he the person I want to be by my side as I age? Is he thoughtful, considerate, kind enough? He does what he does. I took him on like he is. I accept some of this and it just is, but…I don’t want to be loved in this way, I don’t want to be with someone that abuses me at all, I don’t want to be with someone that embarrasses me or makes me feel not very proud. Part of my problem is I keep thinking he might stop/change... .but that is very unpredictable.

I was so proud of him when we were first together - for his many accomplishments. But he also does little, if at all, to help others. His world is very small and he has no sense of community engagement. He has no friends to speak of, and makes little effort. I understand after all he went through…he withdrew into himself and he is willing to try to have more of a life. But a life of us two stuck at home... .is not a full life.

Our lifestyles may just not be compatible. He’s a work and sit at home kind of guy - not what I wanted in life. I showed him this from the start, took him places, to museums, planetariums, aquariums, on trips, to restaurants, all kinds of nice things to show him the lifestyle I try to cultivate. I like more of a balance between what should be the safe retreat of home and being out in the world.

He is open, but not an initiator. I dunno. If he was just stable I could deal with all of this, with ease I think…there are always solutions, but…his mood swings are just brutal.

I can’t figure out why I stay sometimes. Is it just because of the weight of “well, this is where i live and this is life.”? I have changed my life before. I don’t know if this is enough to just squeak along and be minimally content. I never expected to end up with a minimally content life, and I am the only one who make more of it. I wish I had a partner who could be a team with me in making life dynamic and interesting and full. He may not be that person. After all my years of dating/relationships that guy may simply not exist and I’d be better alone - pursuing friendships and just making my life as full as I can without the extra weight of another person dragging me down - taking much more than they ever give.

I know I can’t be with someone who breaks up all the time. We have a few more months for him to show he can stop at least that part. I doubt he can though. But I imagine he will beg me for more time to show he can change. I would not be surprised if he asked for another year to show he can do better.

I think he's open to mending, but I have to lead on it. He has almost no relationship skills to speak of. Poor guy.

I have big doubts that I can be deeply understood or loved by him, but I am also pretty good at providing a lot of my own emotional life. I don't need him for deep understanding or to feel okay in life.

Looking forward to hear more about this therapeutic separation and how it goes! Eager to learn from you!

thanks for letting me share!  

warmly, pearl.

[BasementDweller]

Hey BD!  

He went a few steps too far this year. Him going behind my back and disclosing our private problems to family was a step too far for me. He knew I was not close with them for many years for various reasons and it was a big stab in the back. I will not drop this. He damaged me for life, on purpose. Well, he may think he was trying to help himself, but let’s be honest, at my expense. He does seem to get this was a big mistake, but he can’t repair it now.

I don’t mind the truth being out. I don’t fear the truth. But this forced me to disclose his stuff too so people could understand the balance of things - the whole truth - and now they see him as pretty awful. So, he blew things for us with all of them and he blew a lifetime of my personal privacy. I’m pretty pissed about this. I value privacy a lot.

Oh, pearl, I am so sorry to hear this! I couldn't agree with you more regarding how much I value my (our) privacy... .and my partner did the exact same thing as yours during this last dysregulation period, except he went behind my back to his own family. I fear too much damage has been done, and there was obviously a distortion campaign in the works, though when I confronted him about it, he was sheepish, tearful, and regretful and said he will fix it. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath.

His ex wife (the kids' mom) whom I have never had a problem with in the entire time I have known him, sent me a rude email that was accusatory in tone and also butting way into our business in a manner that's totally inappropriate. A month or so later, his histrionic PD sister who is notorious for drama and stirring the pot called me yelling and screaming almost incoherently. I hung up on her and blocked her number. I am absolutely furious about this, as I had a good relationship with both of them, despite them both being a little off center in the fact that they KNOW his personality, and have sympathized with me in the past. How he managed to turn them against me now is anybody's guess. If he manages to repair the damage, I will forgive it, but I really don't know if it is at all possible - particularly with the ex-wife whom I now can see is manipulative and controlling, though I never saw it before, because I wasn't the victim of her wrath in the past. Ironically, despite the fact that she cheated on him and left him to marry her affair partner, (while their kids were only 3 and 5 years old) and once punched him in the face a few years into their marriage (yes, he's difficult, but come on) she somehow managed to get herself back in the white knight position when I was painted black. BPD thinking, I tell ya. How is that even possible?

After all this I am just not sure I like him that much anymore, enjoy him that much. He is life-draining. I was giving my all and then some for many years, to have it constantly thrown back in my face. I know this is not what love is. I’ve dated nons and I have not forgotten. I have other reference points. It’s hard because I would take care of an ill person, but…this is an illness that is very powerful and destructive in ways other illnesses aren’t. I may have reached my limit…and I feel horrible about that, but life is running out for me too…and I’ve spent far too much of it being less than happy.

I totally hear you here as well, though my heart is still in it. I feel like we have wasted so many days where we could have been happy and enjoying life, but the BPD demons crept up and destroyed so many moments. The day he took me to IKEA to get some stuff for my flat, he was sullen and critical. I said "Hey - for the last two months YOU have been telling me to give you your space and go somewhere else. You got your wish. I'm doing it. After tomorrow, I will be in the apartment. How about we do an experiment, and see what happens and how easy it is to NOT be stressed by being positive and respectful to each other. Let's watch our anxiety disappear by being civil. Maybe tonight we can have a pleasant evening and grill outdoors. Let my last night "officially" living here be a good parting memory. You wanted this. I'm granting it. We have nothing left to fight about."

... .aaaaaaand he was verbally combative and patronizing throughout the entire shopping trip, trying repeatedly to bait me into an argument, which I did not respond to. We went later to my flat, and he was then really polite and worked hard to assemble my new kitchen bench and show me how to use the weird Euro clothes washer that came with the place. He brought me back to the house, and then had a weird panicky moment and abruptly declared he was leaving. He went to his nephew's house and spent the night there leaving me alone on my last night. When he returned in the morning he was all over the map... .I can't help but wonder if that's his strange way of trying to detach a bit, and if he actually feels abandoned despite driving me away. Oh, the conundrum.

My heart is moved by him sometimes, but my heart does not jump. I forget to write him while he is at work, I do not ever day dream about him, or think/want to call him. I’m not excited/dreaming of making love to him. He is like a needy child in many ways. Sigh. His energy, his basic energy, is just so…too much. I am calm. He is…him. As nice as he can be, it can turn ugly in an instant. That makes it hard to relax and be really happy.

He does make me laugh. I love his laugh. He has a wonderful laugh and our humor works well. If we break up I will miss our jokes, but…life goes on.

I am not there yet. I definitely agree about the unpredictability, and how upsetting that is. I still, however, am giddily attracted to him, and even got a heady buzz when he was standing so close to me while showing me the washing machine... .and I could smell his scent that I have always loved and I just wanted to hold him... .but I can't right now. Even when he is sulking and being rude, I still look at his face and think how beautiful he is to me. I truly miss him, and daydream often - about being happy again with him someday. It's so sad. He sees me as his "tormenter" right now... .not able to understand that I am the one person who loves him unconditionally (besides his kids, of course) and would do anything to see him happy. It tears my heart to shreds.

I know I can’t be with someone who breaks up all the time. We have a few more months for him to show he can stop at least that part. I doubt he can though. But I imagine he will beg me for more time to show he can change. I would not be surprised if he asked for another year to show he can do better.

This is what kills me too. I have a real form of PTSD from all of the number of times I have felt safe, happy, and secure with him, only to have it ripped out from underneath me in an instant, typically at the worst of times, like holidays, birthdays, etc. It got so bad that I have actually thought about self-harm and suicide. (For the first time ever in my life.) But then I remember I don't have the luxury of mental illness. There are no good treatment options here, I can't afford to lose my job, and he won't be able to step in and be the sane one. So I gotta suck it up, and keep on keeping on, even while in horrible pain.

Looking forward to hear more about this therapeutic separation and how it goes! Eager to learn from you!

thanks for letting me share!  

warmly, pearl.

Night one was hellish, lonely, and sleepless. But his kids are with him, and I pray that helps bring him back to baseline. One thing at a time, right? 

[Radcliff]

BD, it's been a couple more nights.  How are you doing?  Are you sleeping?

WW