Really, really need advice...how to help my DD see she is damaging her kids

[Parents! Get help here!]

It is so hard to explain what takes place in this world in just a few paragraphs. I really need advice on how to help my daughter to see that she is damaging her kids. She is getting worse as she gets older. She has no insight at all into what she does to them.

My grandchildren with uBPD DD have always been very close with my older daughter, her husband and their kids. Did everything together, sleepovers, etc. When my DD splits, she splits all of us black, even the kiddos. When GD was visiting with her dad they ran  into my older DD and her family. GD ran over and hugged them, spent some time talking to her cousins. DD said she appeared very happy to see them. A few days later I got a text from my GD's father. He said that GD was upset, crying and scared to death that her mother would find out that she had spoken to her aunt and cousins. She told him that according to her mother "the lawyer" said that they shouldn't speak to any of us. I am certain this is another lie from BPD daughter. Apparently, my GD, while still with her dad, put together a text to her mother. In it that she said that she had seen her aunt and uncle. She went on to say that she didn't know what to do because she knows that she wasn't supposed to talk to them, she didn't want to see them, she's sorry, etc. It was 100% written to tell her mother what she knew she would want hear.  When BPD Daughter got the text from my GD, she immediately forwarded it to me with an emoji saying that she was "dying laughing." Apparently to her that is funny! My GD adores her aunt and uncle, always has. Anyway, that sent her into a rant at me telling me to stay the hell away from her kids or she would get a no contact order... .more of the same. No matter what goes on within our family to her, it is always my fault.

This is just one example of the things that she does. Some of the things that she does to her son are worse. He is older and with her all of the time. Poor kid can't get away from it. I just don't know how to make her see how what she does hurts these children. They both live terrified of making her mad.  Any advice on what to say, how to say it? I feel like anything that I say or do will be turned around and twisted anyway. I have to find a way to help these kids before she damages them forever. I feel so discouraged and lost. She tells us that her diagnosis is anxiety. She is on Klonopin and Lamictal. Psych wanted to add another med, but she refused. Not sure what it was. When I research Lamictal, it is mostly used for bipolar, BPD, etc. not anxiety. I wonder if she has a diagnosis that she is not telling us, or the doctor suspects something and isn't telling her.

Thanks for listening. these board bring me comfort when I see that I am not alone. I would really appreciate any ideas. I am at the point where I am fine if she keeps me black forever if I can help those kids.

Kiminski

[Kiminski]

It is so hard to explain what takes place in this world in just a few paragraphs. I really need advice on how to help my daughter to see that she is damaging her kids. She is getting worse as she gets older. She has no insight at all into what she does to them.

My grandchildren with uBPD DD have always been very close with my older daughter, her husband and their kids. Did everything together, sleepovers, etc. When my DD splits, she splits all of us black, even the kiddos. When GD was visiting with her dad they ran  into my older DD and her family. GD ran over and hugged them, spent some time talking to her cousins. DD said she appeared very happy to see them. A few days later I got a text from my GD's father. He said that GD was upset, crying and scared to death that her mother would find out that she had spoken to her aunt and cousins. She told him that according to her mother "the lawyer" said that they shouldn't speak to any of us. I am certain this is another lie from BPD daughter. Apparently, my GD, while still with her dad, put together a text to her mother. In it that she said that she had seen her aunt and uncle. She went on to say that she didn't know what to do because she knows that she wasn't supposed to talk to them, she didn't want to see them, she's sorry, etc. It was 100% written to tell her mother what she knew she would want hear.  When BPD Daughter got the text from my GD, she immediately forwarded it to me with an emoji saying that she was "dying laughing." Apparently to her that is funny! My GD adores her aunt and uncle, always has. Anyway, that sent her into a rant at me telling me to stay the hell away from her kids or she would get a no contact order... .more of the same. No matter what goes on within our family to her, it is always my fault.

This is just one example of the things that she does. Some of the things that she does to her son are worse. He is older and with her all of the time. Poor kid can't get away from it. I just don't know how to make her see how what she does hurts these children. They both live terrified of making her mad.  Any advice on what to say, how to say it? I feel like anything that I say or do will be turned around and twisted anyway. I have to find a way to help these kids before she damages them forever. I feel so discouraged and lost. She tells us that her diagnosis is anxiety. She is on Klonopin and Lamictal. Psych wanted to add another med, but she refused. Not sure what it was. When I research Lamictal, it is mostly used for bipolar, BPD, etc. not anxiety. I wonder if she has a diagnosis that she is not telling us, or the doctor suspects something and isn't telling her.

Thanks for listening. these board bring me comfort when I see that I am not alone. I would really appreciate any ideas. I am at the point where I am fine if she keeps me black forever if I can help those kids.

Kiminski

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[allmydays]

I'm so sorry!  I wish I had advise for your situation, but I only have much empathy and a  .  Breath in and out... don't forget how important that is.  I know how these situations just eat at your and break your heart all day long every day.  Take good care of yourself please.

-Days

[Kiminski]

I know how these situations just eat at your and break your heart all day long every day.

That is so true. It's the first thing that I think about each morning and the last this each night. If there were no kids involved, I could easily just give her some space. I feel like she has become a stranger. Someone said in another post that they think BPD is just a label they give to mean people. That rung so true!

[Hyacinth Bucket]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Having grand kids in the mix must make it so much harder.

What does the kids' father think about all of this? Can he petition for full custody?

 You could try using some of the tools like ":)EARMAN" on this site to talk to your daughter.
1.15 Communicate - Listen and Be Heard

I hope that you are taking care of yourself. I know how this kind of worry just eats away at you all day every day. Sending you lots of hugs  

[Kiminski]

What does the kids' father think about all of this? Can he petition for full custody?

Thanks for your reply and kind words.

Granddaughter's father has her about 60% of the time. Thank God. Our Grandson has no father in the picture. He has NC with anyone on his dad's side. When DD keeps him from us, he has no one. We were all a huge part of his life and now we are not allowed to even speak to him. I can't even write this without sobbing. My husband met with GS on his way to school the morning after one of his mother's "episodes" to make sure he was alright. He is in middle school. DD found out and went to the school to have us banned from seeing him there.

I don't know if GD's dad could get full custody. DD presents fairly well to outsiders. She doesn't drink or use drugs. No overtly outrageous behavior that is noticeable to the public. Her thing is raging at her family and using her children to hurt and manipulate all of us. GD's dad will let us have contact with our GD, which is awesome, but it breaks my heart to think how GS will feel if he know she is seeing us and he cannot. I don't know what to do anymore. I spend every day wondering how alone he must feel. I want to fix it, but I am not sure how. DD is totally unreasonable.

Kiminski  

[wendydarling]

Hi Kiminski

I'm so sorry for everything your family is going through,  I hear you, you feel lost right now and looking how to help your grandchildren, how to communicate to your daughter her behaviour is hurting her children.

There are tons of resources, including communication tools as hyacinth bucket shares that can help you in your situation and the support of parents here.  

Did you recently realise your daughters behaviour fit BPD? It's often co-morbid with anxiety, bipolar and other disorders.

As you'll read here there is no 'medication' for BPD Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder

I encourage you to do your homework and stay, it helped me get through my situation to a better place and I could not have done that without the wonderful parents here, who understand.

Have you considered consulting a BPD specialist for support?

We're here and listening.

WDx

[Kiminski]

WDx

She currently sees both a psychiatrist and a counselor. As far as I know she is diagnosed with anxiety thus far. She has many BPD traits. Now that she is older, she manifests most with completely irrational anger, splitting, re-writing her history, going NC with her family. When she was a teen and young adult she would was emotionally volatile and more prone to doing impulsive things. She has threatened suicide a couple of times. Her boyfriends, classmates, etc. were always caught up in her drama storms. She has separated every boyfriend that she has ever had from their families. Within  a week or two she would be fighting with their parents, siblings, etc. She has never kept friends. She doesn't get along with anyone long term. She hates all of her neighbors. Sadly, her kids even say that "Mom doesn't like anyone."

I am doing a lot of reading and learning here. My fear is that there will be no way to make her see what she is doing. I can remember when her kids were younger, I always found her reactions to them getting hurt or scared as odd. The was no nurturing, she was more apt to laugh and/ or make fun of them. No empathy what so ever. She has none for what she is doing now.

Kim

[wendydarling]

Hi Kiminski

I am doing a lot of reading and learning here. My fear is that there will be no way to make her see what she is doing.

I hear you, your fear there will be no way to make her seeing what she is doing. We learn we can't change the behaviour of others only they can do that, we can however change our own behaviour using the tools and skills, how we communicate, these tools work with everyone, they'll help your GC.

Perhaps thinking through what you can do for the children, now and the future may help you?
When the children of a BPD parent are at risk

I also found this workshop in the Library, do let us know if you find this helpful. BPD Behaviours: Splitting

WDx

[wendydarling]

Hello Kiminski

Wondering how you are? Are you ok? 

WDx

[Scout206]

Hello Kiminski
I am sad that you are caught in this horrible situation.  I am glad that you found this site -  it has been a life saver for me.  My daughter also treats me with cruelty and disdain.   I wish there was advice I could give you that would help.  Reading, learning and talking with people in similar situations are the most helpful things that I have found.   Also you must be kind to yourself.   Try to take some breaks from the constant state of worry.   Maybe it's only a walk around the block or a movie on TV.   I tend to be taken hostage by my need to "fix" my daughter and make her better.   It has been hard for me to accept that I have no control over anything or anyone but myself.   It's a journey as you know all too well.   Stay in touch with us.   We are a group of people who really do care about what you are going through.   Scout206

[livednlearned]

Hi Kiminski,

The way she is with her kids must be heart-breaking for you  I'm so sorry she is estranging them from their family, and making it so hard to have a loving childhood.

There is an expert named Dr. Craig Childress who writes about parental alienation, which he says is the result of "pathogenic parenting" from someone with a personality disorder. It is usually directed toward the other parent, but the same behaviors can be used to split family members.

There are specific skills to help the kids be emotionally resilient when they are exposed to alienating tactics. An excellent book for dad to read is Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids When One Parent is BPD by Bill Eddy. There is also Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak, which will help dad counter some of the confusing lies the kids are told about people they love. Another favorite is I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lundstroms, which teaches how to ask validating questions.

Emotional validation is the antidote to alienating behaviors. BPD sufferers have an above average need for validation and they try to get it from the kids, which reverses the natural order of parents providing validation to the kids. So your grandkids will be starved for validation -- without it, they will doubt their own reality and be susceptible to believing what mom says. Power of Validation for Parents is another good book.

It takes a long time to turn the ship around, but using those skills are the key to injecting some reality testing and emotional resilience into the kids. It's good that dad sees them 60% of the time so that he can make a difference.

I also liked Richard Warshak's work on secrets, lies, withholding, privacy. Kids with a BPD parent will have a skewed sense of boundaries (enmeshment) so having adults explain these complex topics will help them sort out the morally ambiguous landscape of keeping themselves safe with a BPD parent. My son (BPD father) clung to the notion of privacy to help him deal with the guilt of keeping secrets from his dad. I used examples from movies to make the nuances explicit and it relieved a lot of the anxiety and guilt he was carrying around with him. I didn't even need to talk about his dad.

If your former son-in-law is open to the idea, the Family Law board on this site has a lot of good support for people trying to coparent with a BPD parent. We would welcome him with open arms

The skills are not intuitive and must be learned. Fortunately, they can be learned and applied, and can make a difference.

The kids are lucky to have you care so much

LnL

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders