Wedding Planning with BPD Mom

[funsizedfit]

Hi everyone,

As this is my first post, I'd like to share a little background and ask for advice on how to possibly move forward.

My therapist recommended I read the book Stop Walking on Eggshells, and it was extremely enlightening when it comes to my mom, who exhibits BPD traits. When I was growing up, a lot of arguements with my mom stemmed from her unrealistic or unshared expectations not being met, her not knowing what was going on and me not doing what she thought I "should" be doing. Yelling was frequent and my mom always had to make sure I wasn't mad at her during the end of them. Suggestions from her were law (even though she swears I can do whatever I want) and I constantly felt that if I didn't do what she wanted me to do, all heck would break lose and there goes another holiday blamed on me. Two themes that I drew from my relationship with my mom were control and responsibility. She has to have control or the appearance of it, and she never, ever takes responsibility for her actions. Even when I say "when you say x, I feel y" in the nicest way possible, she explodes and says she is not the one making me feel this way or doing anything wrong. I feel as though I have no voice sometimes. And I know it has affected me in ways that I have to deal with everyday... .which is why I am seeking help from my therapist and advice on here.

I know her hot buttons (me working late, my passion for fitness, and now my fiancé) and I've drawn pseudo boundaries by just not telling her much of anything because I'm afraid/avoiding any judgements or criticism because I do things minutely differently than she does. We've tried NC, everyday contact, and every few days of contact based on arguments. If I don't answer the phone or a text, she calls again and again and wonders what I am doing (or my older sister). She has to know and cannot handle not being included. Luckily she doesn't call at work anymore but that it a recent development.

Long story short, I finally stood my ground for the first time in a major situation a year ago when I told them I wanted to compete in a physique competition. They basically threw me out of the house and they did not speak to me for about 8 months. I tried to include them in information as I had a trainer and a nutritionist as coaches and was doing a very slow cut, but they refused to hear it. I understand not supporting or having an opinion, we all do. But the NC was a step further that she had never done before. During that time, I felt for the first time in my adult life... .freedom. It was very painful at times and I couldn't have done it without my supportive fiancé. He hated seeing what they did to me and kept encouraging me and giving me all of the support and positivity I could handle. He never bashed them, he just felt really bad for me and did his best to help me with anything I needed (all the hugs).

But the freedom I felt from judgement or criticism was wonderful. There were ultimatums thrown at me (you're destroying the family, if you do this we won't speak to you again the family is over), but I stood firm. Now, we are back talking but it is different. I decide when it call or text mostly, which is nice, but I still have this fear that if I don't do it enough (2x a week), I will get yelled at later for it.

Fast forward to now, I got engaged in January and it was a perfect weekend. He did ask my parents for permission and they agreed. After we arrived home, we went straight to their house and, come to find out, they had already planned a weekend to look a venues unbeknownst to me. My fiancé got the brunt of it and was "voluntold" that this was what we were doing (the weekend of venue shopping was his birthday weekend btw... .but they didn't care). We just went with it because we didn't want to make a big deal of anything and just went in with no expectations and wanted to find out information from the venues and just have have fun. It was our first time. However, in three successive attempts prior to venue shopping, my mom tried to get me to agree, without my fiancé present, that there would be no more than 200 guests, no liquor and she vetoed a bridesmaid that she had never met that was one of my many supporters of my physique competition. She tried to veto a second bridesmaid a former coworker of mine, but I firmly said no. I knew if I agreed to her terms of 200/liquor that it would be law. I tried to assert myself and say that I didn't know I didn't want to talk about it then and I wanted to see what the venues looked like and make a guest list and go from there and not commit to anything like that yet when we haven't even seen a venue. A few wineries were on the list to see and I said maybe or maybe not for the liquor based in the venue but I didn't want to decide then and there. I also happen to enjoy a margarita/vodka and la croix as does my fiancé, so I felt cornered there. My parents don't drink liquor, but they never gave me a real answer except that they would be the "hosts". Ding. Control and now money. (We don't need their financial support for this wedding)

The venue shopping weekend was good until our second venue stop at a winery. We asked a wedding coordinator about packages and she mentioned we could bring in liquor and hold 200 guests as part of her spiel. After she walked away, my fiancé made the comment "good to know about their capacity and the option for liquor". My mom flew off the handle and said "well we aren't having liquor" it got a little uncomfortable for 5 minutes as he reiterated my thoughts around not making a decision right then (we were in public), but it turned out okay and we changed the subject and we ended up having a nice dinner and breakfast the next morning. They were still talkative and nice to me and my fiancé. We both tried to draw a boundary, but again it wasn't respected.

I enjoyed myself, thinking it was all fine, but then my mom asked to "show me something" in their room alone (bed and breakfast). Red flags all around. Again I was cornered without my fiancé and she blew up calling him names, saying how he ruined the entire weekend, they can't do this anymore and blowing it entirely out of proportion. Basically, if I didn't do exactly as they said (200/liquor and probably more down the road) it was over. It was one of the worst I've experienced to the point where my sister had to come in and tell us to quiet down because she could hear us in the hallway. At the end they both said they weren't coming and they would figure out the money later. I said nothing (bad on my part) but was so disheartened and fuming at the same time, I just left and didn't talk to them for almost 2 weeks.

An email came to me with lines like "we just want a relationship with you, we are thinking about the 4 of us, we don't want to argue, this is not our fault, we didn't cause this, and the ultimatum that if I cannot agree to just communication between me and them (no fiancé), then the family is over... .but alienating people isn't good... ."

Basically, I've been doing as they asked because I felt in a lose-lose situation created by them. I've basically had to cut off half of my life when I talk to them and pretend my fiancé doesn't exist. I did it their way for 4 months and it hasn't gotten any better. We haven't moved on with any wedding stuff nor have we discussed it. It's an elephant in the room that I need to discuss... .and I want to do it soon.

I want to be excited about our wedding. The wind is out if the sails and I have no reason to think it will get any better. The subject was briefly brought up a couple of weeks ago when I was alone with them and I suggested that we all sit down and figure out a way to move forward positively, but they said they would only talk to me and not him. She isn't moving on and I feel stuck. I want both of them involved and I want it to be a fun celebration of me and my fiancé, as a wedding should be. She's already made side comments about how it "should be done" with flowers, guests, my dress, etc. I know I will have to make concessions and am willing to discuss things, but, especially if I tell them I don't need their money only their support, then they don't have control anymore. It shouldn't even be about control. It should be about love, but I haven't felt that in a long time from them. I don't want it to come to them not coming and blaming me or my fiancé for the rest of our lives when it is their decision whether they accept this new life of mine or not. I'm a little shaky as I write this, as this is my first time reaching out publicly, so I apologize for jumping around a lot.

I'm very sorry for the long post and I'd love to hear any advice about where to go from here.

[Nopuppets]

Wow!  When I read this it reminded me very much of how my mother acted when I got married at age 22.  I’m very sorry you are going through this.  This should be such a wonderful time in your life and you are having to deal with your family acting this way.

I’m 46 now and happily re-married with two beautiful daughters.  My husband and I were married on fantastic wedding/honeymoon trip, just the two of us.  For the very reason of not having any drama.  For us, it was the best decision.  We enjoyed every moment and don’t regret it one bit. 

I can completely understand wanting to have a big wedding.  That’s what I did for my first one.  But, my mother pretty much caused problems with the whole process.  At the time I had no idea she was borderline and have only recently discovered that she is.

The main thing here is that you and your fiancé should get to relish in your planning and your big day.  Perhaps think about different options that would eliminate some of the drama.

Like I said, I’m new to all of this.  So just throwing out ideas from my experience.  I wish you all the best!

[Insom]

Hi, funsizedfit.

Congratulations on your engagement!    I hear that you want to feel excited about your and your fiancé's wedding and can relate to how hard it feels to collaborate with a controlling mom. 

I knew if I agreed to her terms of 200/liquor that it would be law. I tried to assert myself and say that I didn't know I didn't want to talk about it then and I wanted to see what the venues looked like and make a guest list and go from there and not commit to anything like that yet when we haven't even seen a venue

I sounds like your mom has been pretty clear about what she wants your wedding to look like and that you're still figuring out what you want.  Have you set a date yet?  What else needs to happen for you to feel clearer about your plans?

I suggested that we all sit down and figure out a way to move forward positively, but they said they would only talk to me and not him. She isn't moving on and I feel stuck. I want both of them involved.

Would it be fair to say you asked your mom to cooperate with you, and she said no?  What's your next step?  What do you have to do next to move forward with your goal of marrying your fiancé?

[funsizedfit]

The main thing here is that you and your fiancé should get to relish in your planning and your big day.  Perhaps think about different options that would eliminate some of the drama.

Like I said, I’m new to all of this.  So just throwing out ideas from my experience.  I wish you all the best!

Thank you for your support and story! Yes, we do have a "Plan C" if it all goes sideways to go destination to eliminate the stress she is creating. I'm also going to hire a wedding planner to be a sort of buffer and third party. I will most definitely warn her about my mom and say she can be exceedingly difficult.

Best of luck to you!

[funsizedfit]

I sounds like your mom has been pretty clear about what she wants your wedding to look like and that you're still figuring out what you want.  Have you set a date yet?  What else needs to happen for you to feel clearer about your plans?

Would it be fair to say you asked your mom to cooperate with you, and she said no?  What's your next step?  What do you have to do next to move forward with your goal of marrying your fiancé?

Thank you for your reply. It made me do some thinking. I have ideas about themes and people I want involved, where/when I'd like it to be... .but since the blow up happened within a month of us getting engaged, I really hadn't discussed my ideas nor felt they would be taken into account.

I'm most definitely hiring a wedding planner to be a buffer with her and help with the details as my job requires long hours and I don't want all of this to fall on my mom, either. That in and of itself makes me feel better, knowing I might have a voice.

Coincidentally, I am talking with them, alone, this weekend. She has refused to see/speak to my fiancé since the blow up in February. They "say" they want a positive outcome to the talk, and I do too... .but making sure my voice is heard. I want to be joint decision makers as you reference.

I am going to go in with a calm head and see what happens when I assert that "request" while agreeing to their "requests" of 200/liquor. I can live without those, and going forward I want to focus on what makes me and my fiancé happy in this process and what's important to me and assert myself and draw boundaries there. That includes my bridesmaids/groomsmen and sister, picking out a lovely dress and hair/makeup style, having fun at the showers and bachelorette, keeping my fiancé sane, and inviting the grooms mom to events and including her as she doesn't have any daughters. I feel that maybe focusing on those will help me tolerate her judgements later on.

Our next step is this talk this weekend, then I want to secure a venue/date. My fiancé and I have already toured a location we like by ourselves and I'm scared about telling my mom I did that without her. But I have to distance myself from that fear and just accept that her outburst is not her own and I have a right to do what I want without fear of judgement.

[funsizedfit]

Brief update and asking for advice. I am feeling helpless and it is now affecting my relationship with my fiancé.

Had the conversation with my parents, agreed to their 150/no liquor and apologized for our role in the drama with venue shopping. I expressed me idea for a wedding planner which was heard but balked at. My dad expressed "responsibility" for hosting/paying for/being the final decision maker. I said I wanted to be a codecision maker which was not received well, they did say they would hear my ideas but he was the final decision maker. Mom wanted to move forward with the 4 of us planning it and my mom and dad said no they want it only to be the three of us. My fiancé can have input but only through me, they can't see him/trust him/put themselves through this whole process again. They blame him for everything and accept zero responsibility.

I was appalled and wanted to start moving on with the four of us (it's been 4 months) so I fought back and was eventually cornered into either doing it their way or ending the family with an ultimatum. I feel that I had no choice but to agree.

My fiancé and I are in a difficult situation. I am in the middle placed there by my mom and dad... .and now my fiancé is finding it hard to accept that he won't be involved with his own wedding... .aside from showing up. It also doesnt help that he sees me like this (broken and feeling helpless) after talking to them when they make me agree (I have a soft spot for my dad) and even hug them at the end. He cannot condone their behavior. He was looking forward to at least helping to pick a venue, food and cake tasting, etc. those kind of experiences. It's putting a strain on us as you can imagine.

I want to do whatever it takes to keep my fiancé and I in tack and keep us sane... .I dont think I can do this nor do I even want a wedding anymore if this is the toll it takes.

Any advice is more than welcomed. Even a "just wait and see" is okay too

[zachira]

I am sorry you are having such a difficult time with your wedding planning due to your BPD mom's behaviors. I have a BPD mom and it is hell on wheels dealing with her. I have found it best not to tell her anything I am doing. This is just an idea I have, and it may not be helpful at all, and I will not be the least bit offended if it isn't an idea that will work for you. It sounds like you would like to have a wedding, and if you include your BPD mom, it is likely going to ruin the wedding. Could you have a destination wedding with just friends and relatives from your fiance's side, and any other people who would not tell your parents? Just a thought. Keep us posted on how you are doing. We have had quite a few members go through a terrible time with a wedding because of a BPD parent involved. Each made painful decisions about what to do about the wedding which were far from what they would have like to have done, and I am sure they will share their wisdom with you.

[Insom]

Oh, funsizedfit.  I hear how hard this feels and can relate to feeling torn between appeasing a controlling parent and claiming adult independence.

Have you heard of the Karpman Drama Triangle?  It's an idea I've found helpful that you may also find helpful.

It sounds like your parents are requiring you to demonstrate your loyalty to them as part of the wedding planning process. Where does this leave you and your husband and how do you feel about that?

[GaGrl]

My mother had a father and uNPD/BPD stepmother (who had dysfunctional "mothered" since my mom was only 6 years old).

My mom chose very small family ceremony, then they used their own funds for a proper honeymoon and buying a first house. It was all to avoid the drama.

What I would say, from my own family and what I have learned from marrying my DH (with a uP exwife), is... .

This is just the start of your marriage pattern. If you want to draw a boundary, do it now. The level of involvement (read... .interference and control) that is being exhibited with your wedding plans, will continue through your marriage until YOU establish the boundaries.

Think children... .relocation for career opportunities... .commentary on your life and family decisions... .bowling before you as a couple become a sepearate entity?

[Notwendy]

My mother is similar about control. Basically, if she and my father paid for something - then she had total control over it.

The issue here is that your parents are paying. Your mother will take control over it. If you father is like mine, he will go along with her.

The only way I know of to be independent of my mother is to not take accept one penny from her.

I have had these kinds of conflicts several times with my mother. I am married and when we plan any kind of family get together she tries to manipulate the guest list ( invite her entire FOO), the food, the drinks. If I hold a boundary she then offers to "pay for part of it" and then, I know how that would go. So I have to hold a boundary on that as well.

Weddings are difficult, even with a "normal" family. If the parents are paying - then they will want some aspect of it to be what they want. With a controlling BPD mother and enabling father holding the purse strings, compromise may be difficult.

When I got married, I didn't know about BPD and I was very much enmeshed in the dynamics of my family with BPD mother. My wedding was all about her. I wasn't even allowed to speak up to her. My parents were paying and she did it her way. Almost all the guests were her friends and family, some I had not seen in years. It didn't matter what I would have wanted, she was going to do what she wanted no matter what. It have no say in my parents' money.

Looking back, had I asserted myself, my parents probably would have done the same thing- cut me out of their lives temporarily. I did assert myself later and that is what happened.

I think the guest list/alcohol issues in your wedding is a relatively minor one. The bigger issue is them leaving your fiance out of the plans. When you marry, he will be part of the family too. Again the issue is money and who pays for it. Their money, their way. You do have the choice to get married on your own. It may not be the kind of wedding you could do with their financial help, but you would not have to bend to this request.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi funsizedfit,

I wanted to extend my welcome to you along with all the others.   I'm very glad that you have come to join us and are asking for help. You'll find that you are not the only one who has struggled and fought through wedding planning. It is so hard having a pwBPD especially in this type of situation.   I remember how hard it was with my uBPDm too as I planned my own wedding, and at that point I had no idea what BPD was.

If I were to ask you what you wanted in this situation, how would you answer? You are caught in the middle trying to please your parents, and also trying to please your fiance, and that is an almost impossible place to be in. Who wants to please you? It's a question meant for you to ponder, not something for you to feel pressure to go a particular way.

Do you feel scared, overwhelmed, overlooked, angry, hurt? Maybe the better question is to ask you if you are able to find and locate and process your feelings in the first place? I know that I struggled a lot to allow myself to feel at all. If you can isolate what you are feeling, it can help you to move forward. Take it baby steps, no big steps required!

For me, this https://www.simplemost.com/feeling-wheel-will-help-better-describe-emotions/ has been one of the best tools I've ever found. Start on the outer edge of the wheel and locate how you feel right now. Then move inward towards the center. It will help you to isolate what is the driving feeling behind them all, getting to the heart of the matter.

I look forward to your thoughts.

 
Wools

[Encouraged]

I am so sorry this is happening to you. YOUR wedding should be a joyous time in your life and your parents seem to think it's their wedding.

Reading your story gave me flashbacks of my own wedding and my MIL. My anniversary is actually tomorrow  I didn't know about BPD at the time and she attempted to overrun myself and her son. Somethings we let all the parents involved have because we wanted our families to feel included but ultimately we had to have SEVERAL conversations about things being about us.

It also helped that other family members close to her were able to reel her in without us asking so that was super helpful.

I know it's easier said than done but YOUR wedding day belongs to you and your fiance and if your parents aren't paying for anything they only have the input you allow. Remember this behavior will carry over into your marriage and that's not fair to either of you.

If your parents cut you off for making decisions for your own wedding then that is their loss and unfortunate that control over you is more important than seeing you get married. OR you can just elope. I'm glad I had a wedding but I am not opposed to the idea if we decide to renew our vows. NOBODY will be invited

Please keep us posted so we are able to provide support along the way and I wish you the best of luck!

and

CONGRATULATIONS!

[funsizedfit]

Thank you all so very much for your insightful and thoughtful replies. It is a comfort to know I am not alone in this and there are resources to help.

Brief update: I had another sit down with my parents to "talk about budget". Apparently I was not happy/excited enough for them when I came over. it went downhill quickly, and basically we ended up at the same argument as last time (planning with 3 people or 4 people). I received 13 phone calls the following day (typical for my mom; I drew a boundary and didn't answer) and an email saying they were out of it entirely. No planning no paying and no attending. I responded saying I understood/respected their decision and then got one more response from them digging their heels in and we have gone NC since.

I feel numb and a bit deflated, but beginning to feel some freedom. My fiancé has been absolutely amazing in supporting me and listening. He just wants me to be happy and see me smile again. We even had a date night which was so nice. My sister is caught in the middle, but I have faith that her and I will be okay.

Still processing everything, but I did want to comment on the other replies:

Zachira, for a long time now I have done the same as you, not sharing too many details about my life. It avoids conflict and criticism and a way to shield myself. Thank you! Currently, we are looking at a destination wedding as part of our options. It looks pretty cool!

Insom, thank you for that article and it rings true. I've been forced to "choose" them or my fiancé multiple times over the past 4 years, and I can see how that demonstrates loyalty over time. Hopefully, we have turned a corner here going forward.

Gagrl, yes I agree. This is a never ending pattern that would only get worse with time. I say to myself sometimes, "what's the next big thing?" Right now, it's the wedding, but you're right it will spill into house buying, kids, and the future. Boundaries are something I am working on constantly.

Notwendy, yes all of your points are so true. It always comes with strings attached and the control as well. I realize if they were paying there would be compromise, but to this day there hasn't been. I did have the vision of the wedding no longer being about myself and my fiancé and that thought gave me more strength. I am sorry your day did not turn out as you hoped, and I am glad you stood up for yourself.

Wools, thank you for your comments! I love the link you shared and will start using it. I find it is hard to express my feelings sometimes for fear of oppression from my many years with my mother. I am taking a small vacation for myself this weekend to see a friend and get some perspective. I've spent some time with my feelings but need to journal more about it and where we go from here. I want our wedding to be shared by those who love and support us. If that includes my parents, then that's great. But this is our wedding and it will be on our terms, and now our dime. I want to look back and see this as a joyful process and the beginning of our lives as husband and wife, with a fun party and lasting memories. I want a more balanced relationship with my parents where they see me as an adult and respect me and my fiancé.  And I'm willing to work on that if they are too. Thank you for asking!

Encouraged, happy anniversary! Thank you for your strength and comments. You hit the nail on the head with every word. Now, without my parents in the picture, my fiancé and I can start to enjoy the day and make our own decisions. It is sad that we cannot get past this disagreement, but I feel this cutoff was going to happen at some point in the planning process. I'm honestly glad it is happening now. Yes, renew your vows and make it awesome and private!

All of you are fantastic and provided so much stability. I have upcoming sessions with my therapist and I am taking it all one day at a time. That's all any of us can do, but we stick together and now we are not alone. I am so glad I came on this board. I hope one day I can help others as you have already helped me in this short time.

I'll keep you posted!

[Woolspinner2000]

Good to hear from you Funsizedfit, 

Sounds as if there has been some good decision making for you that is bringing you peace. I am so glad! Stay in touch and let us know how you are doing as your plans go forward.

 
Wools

[Notwendy]

IMHO, they did you a great favor to tell you they were out of the wedding and you are on your own.

Don't consider this the end of it though. This is a control/manipulation tactic. They are also saying this when angry and dysregulated. After a bit, they are likely to cool down and try again to get the wedding their way. There are many reasons for this. One is the push/pull aspect to a BPD relationship. The other is black and white thinking - no middle ground. Wedding is their way or not at all.

If this were my mother - after her anger is calmed down, she would be thinking of the social embarrassment of not having this wedding her way for her family and her friends ( emphasize her). I did not stand up for myself at my wedding ( I did later ) and the wedding was her way, her friends, her family. She would not have given up on this so easily. In her mind the wedding was about her.

I can tell this kind of thing is going on with your parents, because they are not hearing about what you want. Yes, if parents are paying, their often is a compromise, but both the bride and the parents can arrive at some agreement. The compromise may be that the couple has to invite annoying aunt Jane to the wedding because mother wants her there. Or mother wants it in the family church but the couple gets to pick the reception venue. Not the whole wedding about the mother.

It took me years to learn about boundaries and how tough it is to have boundaries with my parents. When I did, they also did the "their way or the highway" approach. After the wedding - there were more boundaries to hold- with the grandkids, with our own family celebrations " I insist you invite my entire family to grandchild's birthday". If I refused, there would be threats " you are starting a family feud" when we just wanted our own quiet celebration.

You can let your parents know you love them and would love to have them involved in your life, but this is the beginning of a new family with your husband to be. It's their choice to be part of it or not. It  would be sad if they choose not to be, but you should not have to be your mother's doormat. Keep the door open for them. Don't react negatively to their threats but you can hold your ground.