A choice to make: report ex's stalkerish behavior or not?

[EdR]

I am wondering if the issue you refer to is detaching from her or her professional transgression? 
(... .)
I am projecting here, but make sure of your motivation.  Are you on some level still craving interaction with her or is this simply about her transgression? 

Forgive me if I am completely off base, but reading your post brought this question to mind.


Wicker Man

Forgive me as well, but I am thinking the same thing as Wicker Man.
In a way I would recognise this as well. It is something my female friend did several times.  Like one professional said to me: when she looked for negative attention, she was still doing nothing more than looking for attention.

[Forearmed]

Forgive me as well, but I am thinking the same thing as Wicker Man.
In a way I would recognise this as well. It is something my female friend did several times.  Like one professional said to me: when she looked for negative attention, she was still doing nothing more than looking for attention.

I thought the same.

[Roler]

I'll try and explain!
'Ill use Wicker Man's reply, since this contains most of the "questions".

... .I am not a mental health care professional and my opinions are based on very limited anecdotal evidence --... .

Rest assured here; I am a healthcare professional (doctor) and I can tell you that having 'learned' in medschool about BPD seemed IN NO WAY relevant to what you need to deal with or find out when INVOLVED in a romantic relation with a pw BPD traids when it comes to the emotional roller coaster and dynamics thatare involved ( I, jokingly' recommended to my councelor that professionals advising patients/clients on issues related to detaching and breakups with partners who have BPD traids, should themselves try this out first, just to see how immensly complicated things can be in real life compared to " on paper". I mean this in a compassionate way; learning about the traids and what it means to be emotionally involved, was shocking to find out. How subconsciously things develop, how love can make blind, how almost supernatural the connection can become, how sliding scales can develop even in 'aware' people, the push-and-pull dynamics, how I as a 'stable personality' got sucked into the up-and-down emotions. And most certainly, how painfull and absolutely bordering to despair it brought me having to see I l lost myself almost entirely and see the deepest darkest hole I had ever been in, and the realisation that there was no future for us in regards to a healthy stable relationship. 
It wasnt until she herself  mentioned that her thinking was very black and white, that I felt something 'ringing': I had heard (read: learned) this before... .and remember really thinking " but she is so lovely, genuine, we connect and work so well together! She isnt selfharming, etc etc... .surely this must be just an isolated thing".
It is now in hindsight that a lot more traids I learned about from this 'real life' and what people had shared here, that it started to fall into place. I never saw it coming until I was in so deep, so so deep.

... .
I am wondering if the issue you refer to is detaching from her or her professional transgression? 

I can understand this question. I have spent a lot of time getting that clear for myself because I wanted to be honest to myself and her in regards to where we are right now. It is the professional side of things that eventually makes the difference for me. On a personal level, I have made progress in the detaching and do not find 'personally' motivated action necessary in this. She is relatively new in the world of healthcare, and strict rules are applied to dealing with privacy breaches. It can be tempting to access 'sensitive' information, especially if it is related to a person that you have been involved with. But that doesnt mean you should because you can. This is was a boundary crossing from personal brought into professional  She has always worked in a professional matter (for as far as I can tell working with her) and us working together has never given any issues. However as a professional, she should realise that this line of work comes with a whole set of different rules: rules not personally determined by people, but determined by employer and law. Me personally can perhaps understand the breach, however our employer wont see it the same way. And as such, perhaps due to her inexperience, she could get in very murky waters not realising the implications of a breach. I'm in some way glad she did this with me, and not with someone else (patient) which could see her disciplined without  doubt. I care for her well-being and her medical career, because she is a good professional. I care, even if we are no longer involved with each other. The caretaker personality issues I have found in myself in my relation with her, are still 'called upon' in this matter. But it is for her own good and future in this line of work, to realise that boundaries are there for a reason and not something to try and push to see where they go as it would maybe go in the relation; she would get in a tremendous amount of legal sh#t  which I do not wish upon her, in a compassionate and honest way I say that.

... .Personally processing the loss of my lover has been diabolically difficult.  Intellectually I know I did the right thing in leaving her, emotionally I have a lot to work through.

 Are you on some level still craving interaction with her or is this simply about her transgression? 

Forgive me if I am completely off base, but reading your post brought this question to mind.

And so has the loss been for me. I have never been brought to such a state of grief over something like this, the despair and feeling completely lost as when I started to realise I was so completely in love with this person and it would never be. I deliberately didnt start my entry here on the forum with another heartbreak story, reading threads and threads about this and what was replied already helped me in some ways to this point and especially your situation felt similar (having an affair with a pw BPD), so many words you wrote I could relate to. That is what eventually gave me 'courage' to start writing here and add myself to the BPD family as such. I have been making a lot of progress, however know there is still a lot to work on, a lot. But I take it day by day and going through it consciously. 

I have honestly asked myself, if I had a motivation relating to getting attention from her again. And I can say "no". Not anymore. Ask me a few months ago, and I would have said yes. I'm glad we are now physically away from each other to find our own ways and I think we can. I'll keep you posted about how things will go when she returns in a few weeks.

And last but not least: no reason to ask for forgiveness here. I'm glad you (and others) ask me questions or make me reflect on the things I mention. It helps me, as it helped me to read other threads, posts and comments, advice and questions raised with others posting their stories in the past

[Cromwell]

Hi Roler

What situation will you be facing when she returns from abroad. Will you still be working alongside her?

In many ways this situation you are faced with id like to think of rooted in professional ethics, as opposed to fastidious following of set procedures.

This is a scenario where I can see you having to put in many ways, her needs as a disordered person. She might not be a patient, but to a certain extent you are dealing with a person that is unwell relating to her disorder. I hope that you found some reassurance that you are under no obligation to report this, that very much makes it a personal judgement call, weighing up the personal intrusion with what works in the big picture considering the outcome how it would affect both of you. Its not about finding the path of least resistance, it is seeing the gray area which she is not able to do. It is about applying a sense of discretion and ultimately see the big picture, it is not about ignoring wrong doing. It is a weighing up about the unique factors this scenario has brought. Im sure she knows that it would leave a log of her activity, knows the repercussions - can you imagine then what would have over-rode this? A moment of uncontrolled impulsivity. A feature of her disorder.

[Roler]

Yes, I'd still be working alongside her. We work in  the same departement.

[Cromwell]

Yes, I'd still be working alongside her. We work in  the same departement.

So how is going No Contact going to work feasibly?

Im sorry if I missed this earlier but - and I have only my own anecdotal experience plus what ive picked up from others to go on - Im more certain than ever that I wouldnt be making any complaint about her if you are having to continue to work alongside her. My best wishes things go smoothly for you on her return.

[Roler]

We have always been able to work together, we don't work one on one together but in a team which makes it easier. Even during rough and emotional times. Both professional enough in that aspect.
Of course we could 'read' each other, me maybe better than she could. I could pretty much tell how she felt by just observing her, sometimes  small details in her actions. I guess my thoughts on how it will be when she returns are not so much related to our professional side of things as perhaps more to us seeing each other again after the NC and such a long time 'apart' .
Maybe it will be clearer we both moved on, maybe not. There is no real prediction possible I guess... .

[Wicker Man]

I have never been brought to such a state of grief

It has been over six months since we have had any contact and yet I think of her daily.  My first entry here on BPD Family was something to the effect of 'having walked away from the searing brilliance of her love and life feels grey'. 

I look at this last year as an incredible loss of innocence and it is going to take some time to process and repair the damage I have done to myself.  --In short... .I agree.

I deliberately didnt start my entry here on the forum with another heartbreak story... .

Here, doctor, I am going to ask you to consider journalling either here as a live journal or in a good old fashioned notebook.  As I am sure you know there is catharsis in writing -forcing myself to articulate thoughts to the extend where I can put them into writing has been incredibly helpful personally. 

Further, I discovered my thoughts tended to ignore the dysfunction, instead dwelling on the positive aspects of our relationship.  Journaling has help me keep a weather eye on myself.  I miss her deeply, but must keep in mind why I left her.  Something about avoiding immolation... .  Anyway I digress... .

... .your situation felt similar (having an affair with a pw BPD), so many words you wrote I could relate to.

What I would not give to unsee of what I have seen, to wipe away the last year.  It is going to be a lot of hard work and heavy lifting to bring color back into my life.  As you said, day by day and step by step it gets better.

... .still a lot to work on, a lot.

Yep.  The loss of the my BPD fiancé has certainly given me a lot to think about -compounded with reconciling my marriage and shifting my career back from China to the US... .  It has been a hell of a year.


Wicker Man

[Roler]

Thank you.
But on here I'm not a doctor. I'm a just a person that is comking to terms with having been in the most intense  relation ( in many ways), having experienced the highest high's and the lowest low's, trying to make sense out of what all happened, what happened with himself, what happened with him and her and  how to move forward from there.
I think about her every day and every day I also think I must have made a right decision in choosing to end the affair. I care for her and feel love for her and realise I didn't for myself. I have bad days and worse days, but also better days now... .it is very confronting to now pay attention to what it shows me about me and what I am and need to work on.  I've been good in paying attention to others and now slowly start to see why. It was a natural thing for me to do so... .but... to likely not have to pay attention to myself and  the true inner personal issues that had slowly made there way in. I will find out a lot about myself going through this process and working in those things will eventually and hopefully, change me for the better.
I have written a lot for myself the past months ( excellent suggestion), also to organise my thoughts and feelings.
Step by step.

[Harley Quinn]

Roler,

I've read your thread over 2 separate occasions so must apologise if I ask this and you've already replied to the same question but I've managed to miss it.

If you were able to discover that she had accessed your records, could someone else discover this too?  Hopefully you know where I'm going with this.

Love and light x

[Wicker Man]

I'm a just a person that is comking to terms with having been in the most intense  relation... ... ..the highest high's and the lowest low's, trying to make sense out of what all happened... .

Roler, I am adherent to curtesy and respect, but I understand about the honorific and will, hence forth, no longer use it. 

Ironically, my therapist said upon our first meeting 'You don't have to call me doctor... .  I looked at his card and corrected... .You mean I shouldn't call you doctor... .  He paused and said yes this is a more correct statement'  He is a good guy and we both got a laugh out of the discourse... .


Perosnally, I continue to try to understand why this loss stands out in such stark contrast to other past break ups --now I had been woefully out of practice for the last quarter century, but I don't remember any previous break up wreaking such emotional havoc.

It is beginning to dawn on me being with my affair partner created a change in my world view.  The feelings I had for her were strong enough I had begun to review and alter my priorities, wants and desires. 

However, I felt these changes were moving in a positive direction I was becoming -less materialistic, putting more importance on family (the idea of having a child with her), and through her began to experience a more artistic outlook toward my work.  I admired the human being I was becoming and appreciated how her influence had inspired me.  I had never felt better about myself -it felt like I was evolving into the man I was supposed to be.

My reaction to her mirroring was to live up to how she saw me -I was learning things about myself, both strengths and weaknesses during our tenure.  I found myself full of energy and excited about self betterment. 

I have always considered myself a work in progress, and found her to be an impetus to redouble my efforts -she was a muse.  When we met I was running, I began running a lot, I had been reading, I read more.  When preparing for work, with her help, it was on a deeper level.  I had no intent of resting on my laurels -it was a heady time.

This was the high.  Now for the low... .Presently I now find myself having difficulty letting go of this fantastical  'Lieben und Luft' dream --sifting though ashes of devastation to find embers which might fit into the re-boot of my life.  I do not want to fall completely back into the deadly comfortable slumber of materialism.

I am attempting to discern how much I am effected by the loss of her versus the idea of her and what she embodied and represented -culture, family, art, passion.

what happened with him and her and  how to move forward from there.

Roler who is 'him'?

I think about her every day and every day... ... ..I must have made a right decision in choosing to end the affair.

Being a neophyte to the idea of affairs I will agree ending it was a good thing.  From my limited experience of one they are emotionally dangerous for all concerned.  I cannot separate sex and love -without love I feel sex is empty. - I am not wired for affairs.

I remember asking Dream Come True before I had filed for divorce  'How to we keep from tearing each other's hearts out?'  Well... .I certainly have my answer now... .We couldn't and we did.

it is very confronting to now pay attention to what it shows me about me and what I am and need to work on.

I would prefer it if you were to say 'who' you are.  Words have meaning and words have power and there is an element of truth through repetition.  I understand you feel badly and badly to some extent about yourself, but you have not lost your humanity.   We are fallible and in our fallibility we can do horrific things -however these missteps make us no less human.

I will find out a lot about myself going through this process and working in those things will eventually and hopefully, change me for the better.

Without pain there is little room for growth.  Personally, I do not believe there is not going to be a neat little package, a lesson which I could explain in a few words.  This last year has been emotionally devastating for everyone I care or cared about in my world, myself included.  However it is critical for me to embrace, accept, analyze and grow from this experience. 

I have written a lot for myself the past months ( excellent suggestion), also to organise my thoughts and feelings.

Law of averages... .  I say a lot of things... .one of them is bound to be right... .


Wicker Man

[Roler]

Wicker Man, you are such a writer!
It's how I'd like to word thing sometimes  ( English isn't my first language)

The "him" in there was me. Part of my process has been learning to observe my thoughts and emotions. The referring to him is sometimes an attempt to see the whole situation "from the outside". At times it helps me to see it like that.

[Wicker Man]

Him

This is an interesting idea.  I have never looked at myself in the context of plurality.  I will have to discuss this with my therapist.  Twice in my life I experienced a feeling of losing myself, but it was brief and induced by rage.  Both times protecting a loved ones from harm.  -however I should guess this is a different phenomenon. 

Your English is outstanding, you should be proud -I would have never guessed you are not a native speaker.  My affair transpired in China so I appreciate the difficulty of working in a foreign language. 

If you don’t mind me asking do you and your wife plan to reconcile?  If so perhaps consider beginning a new subject -as I have shamelessly ‘high jacked’ your thread about stalking.  There are a few of us here who have experienced BPD through the lens of an affair.

My wife and I have decided to reconcile.  We still have a lot of work ahead of us, but we have both agreed to recommit to our marriage.

Wicker Man

PS I am a visual artist and trying to appear articulate when writing is a Herculan effort.  Lots of editing and even more consternation. What is more my spelling is poor verging on comedic. —but thank you for your kind words

[Roler]

So back on topic: I decided to let her know that I had become aware of her accessing the records
 Via email since this has always been the way of communication in these circumstances.

 I've discussed it at length during the most recent session with my councelor.
 After having drafted a semi long message, I realised she wasn't likely good with a long  message, so for the sake of clarity decided to keep it short in regards to what I had become aware of, the concerns I had regarding that for both myself (privacy issue) and her ( the possible professional consequences), I reflected on the fact she probably hadnt fully realised or being fully aware of those things. She will likely have been taken by surprise with me writing this and since I didn't want to evoke  immediate panic of some sort ( this is me thinking about the possible blame shame dynamics that could come in play) offered a 'way out', perhaps a reassuring thought; that I wouldn't take this matter further for now out of respect for the progress we both have made in going our own ways.
 ( while we still would have to be working together).

How did it make me feel, having sent it after spending several days wrestling with it?

Well, I'm not sure. It fluctuates, as things seem to have always fluctuated. Between feeling ok that I got it off my chest, that I set boundaries for myself in what I can accept as well as indicate to her that she needs to be careful and not careless in regards to what personal motives intertwine with work ethics and the way I worded things in the end, without too much personal emotion in there. I once again affirmed ( I think for both of us?) that we should continue to go our own ways as we do know and  can continue working alongside eachother in a professional manner ( I hope)
 Feeling less ok for the fact I also couldn't let this go somehow.  In some way it feels similar to  disappointment after reaching out and not hearing back. She hasn't responded yet ( 3 days) and in all honesty I wouldn't know what she would have to respond or what I'd be happy with. I predicted to my councelor that she would either respond within 3 days or not at all.

What gave the push was the timefactor, the time left till she returns and not to have this sent just before she'd be back, only increasing the tension again further. Now I feel she can give it some thought while away and I have time to think about how I'm going to respond when she'd be back. There are many scenarios and not really knowing is what keeps me hanging. Everything  fluctuates in emotions. That unsteadyness in emotions I guess  brushed off on me more  than I hoped :/

[Harley Quinn]

Roler do you think there's any possibility that she might read this as a threat or something you're holding over her?

I wouldn't take this matter further for now out of respect for the progress we both have made in going our own ways.

Do you think you were leaving a door open for further communication about this/your r/s ending? Perhaps unconsciously?

If it became known that you were aware of this breach and didn't report it, could there be repercussions for you?  I just want to check that you're not potentially placed in a difficult situation by informing her of your knowledge.

Love and light x

[Roler]

Roler do you think there's any possibility that she might read this as a threat or something you're holding over her?

Do you think you were leaving a door open for further communication about this/your r/s ending? Perhaps unconsciously?

If it became known that you were aware of this breach and didn't report it, could there be repercussions for you?  I just want to check that you're not potentially placed in a difficult situation by informing her of your knowledge.

Love and light x

There is no obligation to report in this case. So no repercussions for me as such.

I have spent several days on what I was going to write, wrote it in many different ways. Even spending almost an entire day contemplating whether or not to include those exact two words you indicated.
Compared to the previous versions, what I eventually sent was the least emotional. And no, not to leave a door open for communication. I have once more emphasised that we have both gone our own ways. Maybe wrote that for myself too, I don't know, that could be. But no, not meant to keep the communication going or open.

There are so many ways one could read someone's message or decide what elements they they from the message to (maybe unwillingly) focus on. I've been considerate and careful in my wording, but also clear regarding the boundaries.   For two years I've been contemplating every message sent  or conversation had, on how she would read or take things, how I could have maybe caused this or that, if it was me who had been inconsiderate or caused all her emotional upset etc,etc. I'm sure it will sound familiar. It is only now that I slowly start to regain some control, or a sense of control,  over my own detachment and recovery process, the fact I find my personal boundaries back again and can indicate if violated.

I think it is difficult to predict what she will take from the message. As it has always been.

[Skip]

So back on topic: I decided to let her know that I had become aware of her accessing the records
 Via email since this has always been the way of communication in these circumstances.

This sounds like a reasonable / safe compromise.

How are you feeling overall about the split?

[Harley Quinn]

I have once more emphasised that we have both gone our own ways. Maybe wrote that for myself too, I don't know, that could be.

No harm in that whatsoever and kudos for acknowledging it as a possibility. 

It is only now that I slowly start to regain some control, or a sense of control,  over my own detachment and recovery process, the fact I find my personal boundaries back again and can indicate if violated.

Great to hear it.  How is that recovery process going?  Has sending the letter helped your detaching in any way?

Love and light x

[Roler]

This sounds like a reasonable / safe compromise.

How are you feeling overall about the split?

Overall? It is still a process but I think I had finally come to see that the grief I had felt, that had started nearly a year, had to stop. It was a feeling of grieving over someone, while she was still in my life and we still had continued to see each other and be (very) involved with each other. But she had met someone else at the same time for a while, an overseas attempt to start a relation, which was (of course) doomed to be unsuccessful. But it was incredibly hurting nonetheless, even for an affair (there are no rules with those, right?), but even more confronting, for myself to realise what I had been doing, what I felt for her, what she did to me and I did to her, and as time progresses, admitting to myself that I should have ended things there and then but simply couldn't. The impossibility of ending it where my mind would so clearly know why I should but my heart couldn't (or was it the other way round actually?), it made me end up in a very dark place. I grabbed the last beam of light to find a way out, so it feels now 

No harm in that whatsoever and kudos for acknowledging it as a possibility. 

Great to hear it.  How is that recovery process going?  Has sending the letter helped your detaching in any way?

Love and light x

Sending it did help, yes. I had given it so much thought (remember those two words you highlighted, the " for now"? I literally spent almost an entire day on whether to include those or not) that at some point I decided I needed to get it off my chest. There were so many versions written and in the end, I kept it short and pretty formal. But not insensitive. Or at least that is what I thought.
The recovery is a slow process, but for the first time in many months, I can feel glimpses of control over my own mental wellbeing again, a hint of hope that I can eventually see a day in the future in which I do not wake up and go to bed thinking about her, our 'relation', be so submerged in the intensity of the emotional rollercoaster. There is recovery possible, and every day I now don't interact with her, or let my thoughts be only about her and us, is a day I feel my detachment has gained another step upwards.
I have bad days and better days, as we all do. The grieving process may have taken a year, but isn't over. It is just not mainly overwhelming anymore.
What has been a great tool (and I wanted to write that in a thread another member had started about " how to stop the ruminating thoughts?" was learning about and applying mindfulness and the concept of Power of Now in this whole process. I could easily start a thread on it, but the discovery of being able to observe (and not BE) my thoughts and emotions, has made a tremendous shift in the suffering from the seemingly never ending stream of thoughts, scenarios, possible conversations etc that I had succumb to. It started to make me see (and feel) that I COULD actually influence what the thoughts did to me, how they affected me, and how I would respond to them. Every little bit can help in the detaching and recovery. I take it day by day.
I've had two very good sessions with my T,  first about the message that I wanted to send and the second about her reply (which I received a few days later and will tell a bit more about once I have my thoughts on it organised

[Harri]

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