I just want to feel less alone

[ILuvABorderline]

I am married to a Borderline. This October will make 9 years. Long story short, he was undiagnosed with BPD until after he had a psychotic break in 2015. He has been disabled since. He has also been diagnosed with severe OCD, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, scrupulosity, depression, and ADD. BPD was never discussed by therapists until I saw a FB post by a friend about BPD and inquired about it. For the past 6 months I have been studying BPD and can very much see how this is overshadowing our lives. The extreme fear of abandonment and rejection, the mood swings, rages, losses of control, being seen as evil one moment, saintly the next... .these things are ripping me apart. Last week we met with a new Christian psychiatrist who kindly but bluntly told him that the BPD was an umbrella covering everything thing else, that she wasn’t going to throw a new Med at him, or even agree to treat him until he had successfully worked a DBT program. She even emphasized that HE had to do the work, no one else. I was hopeful. I felt validated because this confirmed all the research I had done and what I had personally witnessed. He won’t do it, won’t even admit to BPD although he says he identifies with it. I was ready to stand firm and insist he get help and request some time apart, him living with his father while I and other family supported him but yet didn’t have to be a part of or witness the rages, etc. Sunday night going into Monday morning, he *thought* I told him that I didn’t love him and that I was leaving. He lost his mind in a terrible way. I know from that misunderstanding that leaving will never be an option for me. He will kill himself without hesitation. I have the head knowledge that “It’s not my fault” but I am not capable of leaving (even temporarily and with good intentions) knowing it will result in his death. I can’t do it. I know I have issues with codependency and enabling. I don’t need to be told what I already know or all of the psychologically correct responses. I just want to know I’m not the only one, that I’m not alone. I need to know that I’m not the only wife who stays. Let me say that he never physically hurts me, only himself and our home/objects.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[anon21245]

Hi,

After the amount of frantic research I have done on this subject I can assure you I have ready many stories of others in the same position as you, i promise you, you are not alone.

[arlett]

No, you are definitely NOT alone. Although research says there are more women with BPD than men, I feel women by de thousands are suffering the chaotic day to day lives that their BPD husbands put them through! The worst for me was that for many, many years I tried to understand my husband and tried everything to help him be happier hoping that love and kindness would help him solve his mental and emotional problems. Many times thinking I must be the crazy one because nothing worked! But when I found out about BPD about 3 years ago, everything in our relationship that was inexplicable before started to make sense. I finally felt free to stop wracking my brain to understand his behavior and just accepted it as something that it was not going to change. I'm still married to him by choice. I feel that our adult children and our many grandchildren feel more emotionally secure relating to us as a couple. We have been married for more than 50 years, not counting the two times I divorced him and remarried him. We are in our seventies and he has mellowed out somehow, but still rages for no reason and is unkind to me. I have set boundaries and have learned not to discuss anything when he is angry or upset. It is useless to try to reason things out with them anyway! I find great joy in being with our family and the little kids are so precious that make my life a lot sweeter. 

[Radcliff]

You are most certainly not alone.  Many of us choose to stay for a variety of reasons.

DBT is an excellent treatment option.  Take a look at this link on how to get a borderline into therapy.  In addition to the article, there is a video at the end.  The speaker in the video (which is quite long, and requires patience, but is worth it), also has a book, I Am Not Sick, I Don’t Need Help that explains the most effective way to try achieving the goal of getting someone into therapy.

Therapy is a long-term goal.  You can learn tools here to help things in the short term.  Can you tell us an example of one of the more painful day-to-day things for you?  If you give us some detail, we can work with you on tools to make things better.

WW

[ILuvABorderline]

No, you are definitely NOT alone. Although research says there are more women with BPD than men, I feel women by de thousands are suffering the chaotic day to day lives that their BPD husbands put them through! The worst for me was that for many, many years I tried to understand my husband and tried everything to help him be happier hoping that love and kindness would help him solve his mental and emotional problems. Many times thinking I must be the crazy one because nothing worked! But when I found out about BPD about 3 years ago, everything in our relationship that was inexplicable before started to make sense. I finally felt free to stop wracking my brain to understand his behavior and just accepted it as something that it was not going to change. I'm still married to him by choice. I feel that our adult children and our many grandchildren feel more emotionally secure relating to us as a couple. We have been married for more than 50 years, not counting the two times I divorced him and remarried him. We are in our seventies and he has mellowed out somehow, but still rages for no reason and is unkind to me. I have set boundaries and have learned not to discuss anything when he is angry or upset. It is useless to try to reason things out with them anyway! I find great joy in being with our family and the little kids are so precious that make my life a lot sweeter. 

. 


Thank you so much for sharing this with me. This does give me hope. We have two young children. I often don’t know how to make it another day. Learning about BPD was like having a street lamp go off in my head. The diagnosis fits all of the inexplicable behavior, like you said.

[ILuvABorderline]

You are most certainly not alone.  Many of us choose to stay for a variety of reasons.

DBT is an excellent treatment option.  Take a look at this link on how to get a borderline into therapy.  In addition to the article, there is a video at the end.  The speaker in the video (which is quite long, and requires patience, but is worth it), also has a book, I Am Not Sick, I Don’t Need Help that explains the most effective way to try achieving the goal of getting someone into therapy.

Therapy is a long-term goal.  You can learn tools here to help things in the short term.  Can you tell us an example of one of the more painful day-to-day things for you?  If you give us some detail, we can work with you on tools to make things better.

WW

Every day is different but the same. It reminds me of a compressed version of Bipolar Disorder. The extreme highs of mood and lows of mood fluctuate multiple times a day. Some times he is the most amazing man, others he is the Borderline beast we refer to as “The Other Guy.” I feel married to two men who share the same face. One moment he can can lift me up with his words, then next he is saying the most cruel and cutting things. A wrong response from me can send him into an instant and destructive rage. He has (we have) an amazing counselor who he works with. However, my husband never maintains a consistent schedule in seeing him and gets hyper focused on our marriage being the problem instead of our marriage having problems due to the many mental illnesses with the BPD being the ugliest of those. He is hyper sensitive to anything he can possibly interpret as being ignored, rejected, abandoned and the like. To the point that me not replying to texts, etc, at 3 am will send him into a rage. I often sleep with our kids because nights are the worst for him and he will alternate between days of wakefulness and days of staying in bed. He will sometimes intentionally and sometimes unintentionally keep me awake all night long. I struggle with making my abnormal Normal work. I’ve read several books on BPD. I think I am in the stages of grief. I pray that I have finally stepped foot into accepting that this is just my life.

[Radcliff]

I am so sorry that you are under such an incredible load.  Saying you have two husbands really struck a chord with me.  I have felt like I had a relationship with two people in the same body since the beginning.

If you intend never to leave, one thing that is critical not to lose sight of is to make sure that you are living in a way that is sustainable for a long, long time.  We can help with that.  If something seems more urgent, let us know, but my first thought of a place to start is with sleep.  Your situation sounds complicated.  To give us an idea of the severity, how often does he unintentionally keep you up all night?  How often does he intentionally do so?

WW

[ILuvABorderline]

I am so sorry that you are under such an incredible load.  Saying you have two husbands really struck a chord with me.  I have felt like I had a relationship with two people in the same body since the beginning.

If you intend never to leave, one thing that is critical not to lose sight of is to make sure that you are living in a way that is sustainable for a long, long time.  We can help with that.  If something seems more urgent, let us know, but my first thought of a place to start is with sleep.  Your situation sounds complicated.  To give us an idea of the severity, how often does he unintentionally keep you up all night?  How often does he intentionally do so?

WW

It’s hard to tell. I lose track of time. I might get one decent nights sleep a week. For the past two nights he has unintentionally kept me up, talking, showing me pictures, videos of the kids, until 3-4am. Sunday was Hell night and I didn’t get to sleep until 12 in the afternoon Monday.

[ILuvABorderline]

And I absolutely need the skills to make this life sustainable long term. I know I am not currently living in such a way. I feel very burned out. This week something in me has broken. I feel numb. Going through the motions. Doing what he wants to avoid all possibilities of hitting a trigger. I told our counselor yesterday, in a private session, that I feel like a prisoner that has just realized there is no possibility of escape or parole. The acceptance of a life sentence and new “normal” start to set in. It is both sad and liberating at the same time. No more need to struggle or fight, just accept. This must be my cup to drink. Anyway, for whatever reason, he looked up BPD while I was asleep. He woke me up at some point to tell me that if he had BPD he was also a Neurotic Psychopath. He said he didn’t align with the symptoms of a NP so he couldn’t have BPD. I have no idea why he said that. I thought you might have some insight? Or tell me where to ask? Thank you.

[pearlsw]

I feel very burned out.

I feel numb. Going through the motions. 

I feel like a prisoner that has just realized there is no possibility of escape or parole.

Hi ILuvABorderline,

Feeling a bit like this, but not ready to do a life sentence anymore. I dream a lot about a prison break, but then it feels like the chains around my ankles are too heavy and there is nowhere to turn.

I feel a bit numb at times... .but I am sure it'll wear off in time. I am sure there is room for more happiness in my life somehow.

Have you read about Radical Acceptance?

Do you have other elements of your support system? We're here too and happy to support!

wishing you peace, pearl.

[Radcliff]

To make things sustainable, one of the first things you will need to master is boundaries.  To learn more about boundaries, you might want to visit this page on setting boundaries.

While you are learning boundaries, there is more potential for conflict.  Tools you can use to reduce conflict are learning how not to “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE), and learning how to validate.  To learn more about validation, take a look at this excellent page on how to validate and avoid being invalidating.

Let's work on a boundary around sleep first, since that's a basic need.  He has been successful in making you so afraid of upsetting him that you are risking your health to keep him comfortable.  Have you ever attempted to get him to cooperate and allow you to sleep?  If so, what did you do and how did he respond?  When he is intentionally keeping you awake, what do you do?  Is there another room you can comfortably sleep in?  Have you tried this?  If so, what happened?  If you give us some rich detail we can help you through this and keep our feedback relevant.

WW

[ILuvABorderline]

I have given up on my ability to maintain healthy boundaries. I know what to do but am never able to enforce it. I do mostly sleep in another room. Nights become a mix of text messages, calls at times, walking in and out of the room, yelling through walls, insane rampages of noise, etc. All because he feels ignored, abandoned, rejected. When he flips in to Borderline Beast mode, he will tell me I don't give a F about him and that I care more about my "precious sleep" than I do him, that he is dying and all I care about is sleep. Amazingly enough our children manage to sleep through 99% of this, while most of the time I cannot. There are times that I put his notifications on silent or even mute my phone so I won't hear a call. Sometimes he is calm in the morning, sometimes he is even worse. It is a complete roll of the dice. I have gotten better about not reacting, not participating in the chaos, but there are times when I absolutely lose my mind back at him. Usually at 3am when this has been going on for hours. He has admitted to me that he likes the reaction. He feels that the only time he doesn't get ignored is when his behavior is over the top. Like a child.

[Radcliff]

Living a boundaryless existence is something I understand.  I've been there and done that!  Many of us learn to be boundaryless in our FOO.  Unfortunately this means that we risk setting our children up to live boundaryless in their adult relationships.  It may seem impossible, but you can become effective at boundaries.  You need to sleep.  Your children need you to sleep.  Your husband needs you to sleep.  More sleep is possible!

Remember, boundaries are about what action you take to protect yourself in response to something that is violating your values.  The action needs to be planned ahead.  It's hard to make up a good response on the fly, especially at 3am!

Consistency is vital with boundaries.  This is another reason why planning is important.  We need to pick boundaries that are enforceable and actions that are effective in protecting us.

The sleep situation is complicated because he can do many things to disrupt your sleep.  Each problem behavior may have a different protective response, such as:

texting or calling -- phone is on a setting that you do not hear and placed so you don't see popups.

conversation late at night -- give an advanced warning about when you are going to stop talking, and stick to it.

turning the light on -- this is a tough one.  How often does this happen?  How have you responded?

The tricky part about boundaries, as you may have experienced, is that our pwBPD will not like them.  (Quick aside -- we do not need to seek their agreement to define a boundary).  Our pwBPD often escalate their behavior until they get the reaction they are looking for.  Another thing you'll need to be ready for and power through is "extinction bursts," when you change the rules and no longer are giving them the response they are used to, they may redouble their efforts.

While we don't need permission to set a boundary, communication can be helpful.  One of my mentors here was masterful at handling her husband by giving him gentle, repeated reminders before events he might feel stressed about (like her going out with friends).  This tactic seems like it would be helpful with a bedtime boundary, especially if paired with offers of attention earlier in the evening.

Again, planning is key.  Our advice won't be any good unless we understand everying that you're up against.  Can you give us a list of all of the ways he keeps you up?  Can you suggest boundary responses to deal with each one of them?  If you're stumped on a couple, no worries, we can help.

In addition to boundaries, like a child, he is going to need to have access to your attention before bedtime and after you wake, so he doesn't feel abandoned.  Does this sound reasonable?  Can you think of ideas that might work?

Let me know if this overall approach seems like it's going in a helpful direction, or if I'm barking up the wrong tree.  We're here to give you the help you need!

WW

[pearlsw]

He has admitted to me that he likes the reaction. He feels that the only time he doesn't get ignored is when his behavior is over the top. Like a child.

I have noticed this at times too. He is definitely looking for a reaction and if I don't give one he will keep trying to escalate until he gets one.

I work with validating so that he feels heard before he starts picking up the pace and getting really out of control. It is not easy - that is for sure! I don't want to spend time with him as his energy sucks the life out of me at times, but I am careful to spend time with him anyway so he does not feel abandoned. Sometimes he just needs me to sit near him or in the same room.

I have names for both people that seem to live inside him as well. We joke about it a bit, but it is not easy. Right now he is being very clingy and is desperate for attention.

wishing you the best, pearl.

[ILuvABorderline]

"In addition to boundaries, like a child, he is going to need to have access to your attention before bedtime and after you wake, so he doesn't feel abandoned."


This struck a chord with me. He often brings up how little he actually sees me and gets time to really talk with me. Our sleep schedules are all messed up, with him sleeping most of the day away and not really waking until late afternoon, early evening. I have a tendency to avoid him in the evenings because I'm already exhausted and, I'll be quite honest, I don't at those moments feel like investing in him. Selfishly, I don't want to get caught up in a two hour conversation that could lead to an argument, etc. Plus, we have young children and I find it difficult to concentrate when they are in and out, needing me for something, etc. I realize that there are things I can do to contribute to a better relationship for the two of us. Somewhere along the way, I just got tired of putting forth the effort, I suppose. This is something I definitely need to work on with myself because I do love him and want things to work.

[ILuvABorderline]

"I work with validating so that he feels heard before he starts picking up the pace and getting really out of control. It is not easy - that is for sure! I don't want to spend time with his as his energy sucks the life out of me at times, but I careful to spend time with him anyway so he does not feel abandoned. Sometimes he just needs me to sit near him or in the same room."


Pearl, I identify with this so much. I pray I can get back to the place where I can lovingly do this for him and us. Thank you.

[Radcliff]

We want to support you in your love for him.  It sounds like you recognize some room for improvement in the amount of attention you give him, but you're also human, so just asking you to give more without the situation improving won't be sustainable.  Remember that a successful supporter of a pwBPD has a big well of empathy and consistent love for them, paired with boundaries.

There's a book, Transforming the Difficult Child:  The Nurtured Heart Approach, by Howard Glasser, that I think you really could benefit from reading.  If we extend the "child" analogy for your husband, it's helpful to look at how Glasser recommends bringing difficult situations under control.  He talks about boundaries, but he describes a very disciplined way to engage with the other person and build a bond with them for a period before you implement boundaries.  If we just drop you into trying boundaries, without paying attention to his need for positive attention from you, you'll be in for some drama and disappointment and be less likely to be successful.  Would you be willing to take a look at that book?  You won't even have to hide it from your husband, since it's a parenting book!

WW

[ILuvABorderline]

I will definitely take a look at that book!

[pearlsw]

Pearl, I identify with this so much. I pray I can get back to the place where I can lovingly do this for him and us. Thank you.

Hi ILuvABorderline,

I think this is very nice that you still love him and want to improve things. This is not easy, to feel this way I mean, so I would strongly encourage you to look at this as a strength and use it in your process of relating to him.

Along the way, him doing things to my family, and just the soul-crushing nature of our issues, has left me not feeling so in love. If I am going to be with him though I will have to dig deep and find a way to love him the best I possibly can.

Do you want to talk out a bit of plan for how to improve things? Perhaps a bit of checklist of things you can do would help you track it and stay committed to your process/approach to him?

wishing you love, pearl. 

[ILuvABorderline]

Sure, Pearl, thank you for the support.

[Radcliff]

How have you been sleeping the last few days?

WW

[ILuvABorderline]

How kind of you to ask!

Honestly, not well. My husband has been staying with his father for the past two weeks and I have spent most of my time there with the kids, too. This makes for an already difficult sleeping situation. For the past several nights he has been waking me up in the wee hours. I am currently running on fumes.

[Radcliff]

How kind of you to ask!

Honestly, not well. My husband has been staying with his father for the past two weeks and I have spent most of my time there with the kids, too. This makes for an already difficult sleeping situation. For the past several nights he has been waking me up in the wee hours. I am currently running on fumes.

How does he wake you up in the middle of the night?  By calling?  If he is away, that's a great time to work on sleep boundaries, since he can't flip lights on and do other tactics he might try if he was home.    Is he still at his dad's?  If so, when does he return?

WW

[ILuvABorderline]

WW,

So I returned home Sunday. We parted on okay terms. Monday night I called him to check in. He was triggered during the conversation which led to several hours of phone calls, being hung up on, etc. The kids and I finally got to bed around midnight. At 4am I woke up to the house phone ri going and him leaving messages. He perceived me as ignoring him because I did not get up and rush to the phone. Which led to repeated phone calls, ugly messages, setting my "lost" alarm off on my iPad (which he can do remotely) and apparently yelling at me through the intercoms on the security cameras we have throughout the house. I don't consider enforcing a boundary at this time by not responding to the over the top attempts to get in touch with me ignoring him. Apparently he noticed through the cameras that I had left the door between our house and garage unlocked, even though the garage door was locked, and considered it an emergency. I shut and locked the bedroom door, covered my head with a pillow and went back to sleep. At 7 something in the morning I could hear sounds and knew he was in the house. This led to two hours of listening to the Borderline Beast rage about all of my faults. He finally went to sleep around 10am. He stayed here last night and is currently still asleep. Our waking time together was fine. Borderline Beast placated and apologies given. I have stocked my fridge well with coffee. I don't see ever solving the sleep problem as long as my husband can't maintain a someone normal sleep schedule. He worked nights for twenty years. No luck in changing that routine in the past three years he has been disabled. Now he will be up for days... .sleep for days. No telling from one day to the next.

[Radcliff]

OK, I think I understand now.  The whole family was traveling, and you came back a day early.  That does sound exhausting!

You have a tough situation with no easy answers, that is for sure.  But you need sleep.  This is not sustainable, and is not mentally or physically healthy for you.  Figuring out a way to meet your basic physiologic needs cannot be negotiable.

I'm hoping we can get other members involved here for ideas on how to approach this, but the first step is you deciding that you need and deserve sleep and developing a determination to solve the problem.  What are your thoughts on that?

WW

[pearlsw]

Hi ILuvABorderline,

It is so hard to have to deal with a raging personality. I went through a period of this with a lot of sleep disruptions. I am not sure anything I did changed it, I wish I could say otherwise, but I agree with WW that something needs to be done on this. You can't have him up all the time disturbing you like this. This won't be easy I think, and it could get worse before it gets better I'm sorry to say, but what do you think about setting up some boundaries on this?

It's strange, but I got some advice early on from my SO's sister-in-law to treat him with a firm hand, basically be a bit bossy with him. That's not me, so I just ignored that advice. Well, we were talking about it recently and I tell ya, I think sometimes it strangely does work. I dunno. I still can't bring myself to really do that, but I do acknowledge that he has expectations of me that I don't get.

And hmmm. Our partners are, after all, trying to get us to match their emotional states. I don't want to live like that, I imagine you don't either, but I feel like if I was in this spot I'd put my foot down pretty hard and say "I will not be woken up like this. Period." And then he is forced to find other ways to manage with his emotions. I think he is having trouble with his emotions and he is really trying to get you to engage and interact with his emotional state - or that is what this has felt like to me at times. My SO can't handle his thoughts, he gets very disturbed, the thoughts are about me, and he would wake me up to inflict that pain on me and get it out of himself. But for me it was horrible.

I think this has a lot to do with setting expectations so he does not feel ignored, but not letting his emotions run the show. These are not easy issues, they take time and effort and may or may not produce results. What do you think?

How did he get triggered during the phone conversation you previously mentioned?

with compassion, pearl.

[ILuvABorderline]

WW, it is complicated. My husband has been staying mostly at his dad's house, which is local. I spent most of two weeks staying there with him. He has been at home since this post. Still making for a disturbing sleep but not with rages. The nights are the hardest for him. He has the most anxiety, panic attacks, etc., while me and the children are trying to sleep. If he doesn't wake me in a rage, he wakes me for support. Not sure how to ever get around this.

[ILuvABorderline]

Pearl, during the conversation our 6 year old daughter got on the phone and told him she missed him and asked when he was coming home/why he couldn't stay home. I understand the 'trigger'. When he is in his right mind, he understands why he wasn't home. In Borderline mind, the reasons for twisted. He has basically been sleeping since he got here, with his waking time being at night.

[Radcliff]

He has the most anxiety, panic attacks, etc., while me and the children are trying to sleep. If he doesn't wake me in a rage, he wakes me for support. Not sure how to ever get around this.

Have his sleep problems and nighttime anxiety been discussed with his psychiatrist?  Does she know how serious the problem is for the whole family?  Is he on any psychiatric medications?

As it happens, I've got some experience with bedtime anxiety, and stumbled on a solution.  I lie on my back with a pillow on my chest, and my arms around the pillow, blankets over the pillow.  For some reason, the downward pressure makes a huge difference.  This is actually a "thing," as you can buy weighted blankets online.  Have you tried establishing a soothing bedtime routine for him and helping with a little nurturing? 

Keep in mind the principles of how rewards work.  If he wakes you up and you soothe him back to sleep, you're rewarding bad behavior.  No soothing if he wakes you up.  But your soothing actions could be a reward for him settling down in bed at a decent time.

WW