Question for all: What are you holding back that you'd like to say?

[pearlsw]

Hi all,  

A lot of us are walking on eggshells with our partners and not saying things we perhaps should be.

I know I feel like I can't do all the relationship problem-solving I'd like because his emotions get so overwhelmed.

Today I was mentioning a recent nasty comment of his and he asked me to please stop talking about it because he already hated himself enough for it.

What are you holding back that you'd like to say? How can we use this as a piece of our own healing and self-centering, as a way to make things better or at least not worse?

wishing you peace, pearl.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[desperate.wife]

Today I was mentioning a recent nasty comment of his and he asked me to please stop talking about it because he already hated himself enough for it.

Are you living with my husband? 
He says exactly that: stop talking about I feel bad already. Meanwhile, things are not clear, unsure, unresolved. And it bothers me. So I push till I get what I need. Then he is upset…Never-ending story.

Right now, he is ill and got back pain. And he is in bad mood. I can understand that. I take care of him. But deep down I feel that I am the one taking care of him while he is thinking of other people... .I know he said he’d try to get help. He wouldn’t do anything to hurt the family. And I am calm. But there’s this feeling somewhere deeeeeeep inside me that I can't be sure on a bad day he wouldn't want to do all the bad things again. Meanwhile, I can't tell him that I feel a bit used. I need to stay positive and smiling, so he feels welcomed and needed. Let’s enjoy the calm moment.

[Teno]

Good question.

What example are we setting for our kids, we just setting them up for the same cycle. Do you see the kids faces when you talk and look at me like that? Can't you see you following in your mom's footsteps? I need your help?

My healing and self-centering:

Getting my 50% of parenting as close to 100% I can. Looking how my upbringing made me blind/accepting to unhealthy behavior and emotional abuse. I do see it as opportunity to show my kids how to reflect and show that change is possible, how to sidestep conflict, set boundaries and really show and know what true validation is.

Today I was mentioning a recent nasty comment of his and he asked me to please stop talking about it because he already hated himself enough for it.

I've found that when I set my boundaries it becomes: I'll find my own boundaries when you set your boundaries with me.  

I've become better at spotting the the abuse and really seeing for what it is. Lately I just walk away and say I don't like how you talk to me. A bit of self care and some parental modeling! Sometimes I still take it to avoid a flareup

Teno

[desperate.wife]

After his therapy today, he wrote that he needed some time and was not leaving immediately.
Ok, I said. No problem.
 Limits, limits, limits. I need to set limits, and keep them, he wrote.
I reply, finally some concrete work. We’ll talk about it at home.
I lack empathy, he added.
Luckily it’s something one can improve, I encouraged while I was preparing home made potato chips for the foot match he insisted he want us all watch together after he goes back.
Hopefully, he answered.

Silence. And then he writes: I’ll watch foot at work, with colleagues, if you don’t mind.
Ok, I say while seasoning chips, I am making so we could have nice time watching football...

I get he needs socialisation after this period in hospital and off work. But.

Right now I want to say, but you said, you wanted to watch football all 3 of us. That was smth to make you feel better. Something to look forward after today’s therapy. You insisted how important that we all watch. Made D3 cry, coz you told tv will be for foot not for cartoons this afternoon. I am not fan of football and yet I cooked homemade potato chips to go with match, talked to D3 about football and that we all going to watch together so she would make peace with it (usually we don’t watch tv, only some cartoons, so she thinks tv is hers. Our bad And then you go to the therapy after all morning being deadly ill, headache, can’t talk. Make me better, plz. I give you all medics I can think of. Feel worry. I stay back, let you be. I nurse you when you ask. You still insist on watching foot together till last sec. And after therapy you write you’ll watch it with others?
What's the... .
And then you say, you'll eat with colleagues tomorrow and you'll make them Ice-cream. You'll get ingredients with coins you found in the car. Maybe those coins would buy some meat for us, no? Remember you have 0 on your account! And when I ask if we can go to the spent some time all 3 together by the lake you go, but you spend all time on the phone! That was yesterday... And I was sorry, saying if you don't feel well just say it, we can go alone, let you rest, I understand you are ill, just thought you were feeling better. And you were angry on your d3 for her doing things that all kids doing and obeying immediately to your wishes. I asked you nicely to stay home and rest. This morning you couldn't get out of bed.  And now you feel better you say!  And you’ll be better away, not here. Happy for you.


I so want to say all that to him, but I shouldn't, should I?

[isilme]

Warning - I'm kinda going to just go off a bit.  Sorry, I think I need this. 

Why can't you see your wacky feelings are the root of so many things that bother you, and they bother you to an extent other people don't feel (or even care) that much about?  Most people don't obsess over minor comments from 10+ years back, over and over, as if they just happened.  They have to let it go and move on. 

No one else cares if your arms "look pale and skinny". 

No one else is looking to see if your close-cropped buzz cut hair is "fuzzy". 

If you are so mad about how you look and feel, learn to appreciate exercise and food the way I have to work at it and stop wanting "yummy" foods that got you here in the first place.  Let it go.  Adult a bit about food choices.  You tell me you are "worried about my weight" and I need to exercise and eat better.  But then you can't apply it to yourself.  Project much?

Test your damn sugar levels.  Daily.  Stop guessing at them, get some real numbers.  Your feelings are suspect.

No one but you stops you from completing projects.  You want to finish an art project, do it.  You want to write, do it. 

You DON'T want to accept prpject, even if it's paid, don't.  No one is making you. 

If you really feel bad I am tired and worn out, "worried about my health", why do you not help, at least in ways that actually help?  Rinsing dishes but not washing them, putting them back on the counters, does not really help me.  You could have taken the same time to actually wash them and I'd be so grateful, not confused and invalidating at the wasted effort and time. 

Taking out the trash in the bin, but ignoring the trash all around the bin that could not fit, just means I still need to take all that crap out - how did this help?   

Do you realize you are yelling at your mom and not me?  Or your sister?

If you worry you depend on me too much, and I can't depend on you in kind - DO SOMETHING about it.  Read a map.  Program things into your phone in advance so you can use the GPS.  Insist on driving out of town.  ASK where things are.  Stop assuming I will be super-able at all times. 

What is going on in that head?


Sorry.  Have a lot I don't feel I can communicate, and I've been on edge lately.

[Jade_alexander]

It’s too late.

I tried to save us 6 years ago.
I fell in love with someone else.
I found a way to be happy without you.
The scars are too deep and too many to risk being venerable again.
I want to leave and I want you to let me go.

[pearlsw]

Hey everyone! 

Ouch! A lot of pain here.

Now, I wasn't planning this, but I wonder if we could all think about how we might say any of this to our partners but using some of the tools?

Or, put another way, can any or some of these things be said? Would how we said it make a difference?

wishing you all peace!

~pearl.

[desperate.wife]

Hey

Great idea, pearl! I think things like that can't be kept for long without damaging us. We should have a way to say some things.

Mine was little thing and I still ended up saying it. I was much calmer, but pissed when I did it. I couldn't hide it. And didn't want to feel that way, I was passively hostile against him. So I said it bothered me. I felt better. He was upset and recognised he was not right. Interesting point to observe for myself: while I was justifying his need to be with people for recovery, he said that he just saw the time, that match was starting and went, thought he'll watch it there. He forgot that few hours ago it was life or death matter to watch it with us and he didn't need to have some more time for himself.

But it is good to have a place here where you can say everything without having to think about consequences. It could be sticky topic To let go some everyday frustration  :d Then it is easier to rethink it.

[Enabler]

Why when you say it is intolerable to live with me and you want a divorce does it take you 6m to apply for the divorce?

Why is the 55yr old ugly weirdo more preferable to the guy who's provided for you for the last 20 years, was there for you when you cut yourself and been your emotional crutch?

Why when you claim that I am abusive to the kids do you leave them in my care for 20 evenings in Jan, 21 in Feb, 22 in Mar, 18 in Apr and 23 in May?

How can you maintain such a high level of hate towards me for 18 months, how are you not exhausted?

What are you thinking?

What are you feeling?

Why won't you talk to me?

How do you marry all of the above with your deep Christian faith?

[sotiredofthis]

I'm so tired. I know we just went on vacation together but now I want a solo vacation. I want to go be by myself, read, sleep, do whatever I want. I need a break from caretaking YOU. I need a break from witnessing your deep depression and being the recipient of the blame.

I want to have peaceful bedtimes where I get a sweet kiss good night and then I can go to sleep. Not waiting up for you because if I don't it's nasty, when I wait up then you get in bed and the tears begin and sobbing and I have to comfort you. And instead of my 8-9 hours of sleep I get 7. Then I'm exhausted the next day.

I'm not feeling sexy toward you as often as you'd like because of all of the above. I wish that I could just express my love in caring intimate ways and if we make love, great, if we don't, no big deal. But no, it has to be a huge deal and mean that I am REJECTING you if we flirt during the day and you express your interest but I don't find my interest. ARGGGGH.

 

Pearl, I wish I could say these things in  a 'proper' way, I have no idea how I would do that.

[walkinthepark247]

Please understand that I am truly doing the best that I can in this circumstance.

You repeatedly say that I don’t do anything for you. But, when I try to do nice things, you immediately criticize what I’ve done. It’s your first response.

While I have noticed improvement, I still haven’t gotten over the many times in our past when you have physically assaulted me.

I’m just so worn down by all the drama and moodiness.

May I just take the kids on a vacation by myself this time?

I know that I am not a perfect human being. At the same time, I know that I am not the cause of all of your self-loathing and negative thinking.

Sometimes I feel very, very lonely being married to you.

[pearlsw]

Hey

Mine was little thing and I still ended up saying it. I was much calmer, but pissed when I did it. I couldn't hide it. And didn't want to feel that way, I was passively hostile against him. So I said it bothered me. I felt better.

But it is good to have a place here where you can say everything without having to think about consequences. It could be sticky topic To let go some everyday frustration  :d Then it is easier to rethink it.

Hi desperate.wife,

Oh yes, I've noticed lately I've been able to speak more frankly with my SO. He is able to hold himself and take it in. I do wonder if he is storing up nuggets to pummel me with in later fights, but at times it seems he is genuinely trying to do better now that he's taking anti-depressants.

I notice too that I am trying to be sure when I do say what I really think I try to at least how much I say, not go on and on and repeat at least. Be mindful that he cannot emotionally handle a lot, but seeing if he can handle a little.

I also try to work hard to regulate myself so I am not so short tempered with him. I am on edge a lot being with him and it really helps when I slow myself down, think carefully and choose my words wisely. It is so important to avoid blaming, but instead to express a lot of understanding and also not working to make the other person be "wrong" all the time.

wishing you the best, pearl.

[pearlsw]

Why when you claim that I am abusive to the kids do you leave them in my care for 20 evenings in Jan, 21 in Feb, 22 in Mar, 18 in Apr and 23 in May?

How can you maintain such a high level of hate towards me for 18 months, how are you not exhausted?

What are you thinking?

What are you feeling?

Why won't you talk to me?

How do you marry all of the above with your deep Christian faith?

Hi Enabler,

Oh man, this is so rough! It is so hard when you want to talk and do some work on things and the other person isn't participating.

I've been dealing with just shy of two years of extreme hate/love following on the heals of contempt, neglect, and cruelty, etc.

I've been called abusive at times (I'm not) and threatened with cops (go ahead I say) and yet at the same time he can't live without me and wants to be with me in the after life too he says.

Are you heading for a divorce? Will any of the details of the relationship, the not legal parts, be discussed before it ends?

warmly, pearl.

[pearlsw]

Sometimes I feel very, very lonely being married to you.

Hi walkinthepark,

Oh my! I tell ya, that is the knife in the heart right there! I understand that feeling of being with someone, but alone - married but no one to share my deepest thoughts and feelings with.

I hear ya too about not being able to get over serious issues from the past. Does she tell you you should get over it? Past physical abuse I mean.

take care, pearl.

[Enabler]

Are you heading for a divorce? Will any of the details of the relationship, the not legal parts, be discussed before it ends?

W wants a divorce, I probably should too but I don't for good reasons.

At the moment I am being given ST... .I think she could keep this level of anger up for years. I very much doubt I will ever know the full truth about my marriage for the last 17yrs!

[Chosen]

What I'd like to say is:

1. "I feel like a failure most of the time when I'm with you."

2. "Sometimes it's not you, it's not me, it's just the way life is.  Please don't take things so personally."

I can never say these to uBPDh, because if I said 1., he would say I make everything about me, why don't I care about his feelings?  Don't I care that he has to live with a loser, a failure of a wife, etc... .and re: 2., of course he will take things personally.  Of course it will always be about me. 

[pearlsw]

W wants a divorce, I probably should too but I don't for good reasons.

At the moment I am being given ST... .I think she could keep this level of anger up for years. I very much doubt I will ever know the full truth about my marriage for the last 17yrs!

Hey Enabler,

Oh no! Not the silent treatment! Grrrr!  

I know. The ":)" word is a big one... .hard to go there, not to be taken lightly.

Sorry you don't feel you know the full of your marriage for 17 years! That number just makes me want to faint!

Would she ever tell you the truth? You think she is keeping something from you?

warmly, pearl.

[pearlsw]

What I'd like to say is:

1. "I feel like a failure most of the time when I'm with you."

2. "Sometimes it's not you, it's not me, it's just the way life is.  Please don't take things so personally."

I can never say these to uBPDh, because if I said 1., he would say I make everything about me, why don't I care about his feelings?  Don't I care that he has to live with a loser, a failure of a wife, etc... .and re: 2., of course he will take things personally.  Of course it will always be about me. 

Hi Chosen,

Interesting to hear! May I ask, do you feel like a failure? How do you feel about yourself? Despite what he says, is your self-esteem holding up or being eroded here? If it is being eroded are there things you could do to bring it back up?

Do you work with depersonalization to take some of the sting out of his nasty comments?

with compassion, pearl.

[munkeynoodle]

What I'd like to say:

What the heck is wrong with you?

Seriously, you are so sick in the head.

We had a life together. We had so much.

And you leave it for some guy from the internet who lives hundreds of miles away? You gave up our life for some cheap conversations and cheaper hotel rooms?

You just walk away. Just like that.

How is this so easy for you? How can you just stop talking to me so easily after speaking to me every day for two and a half years? Every day I spoke to you, every day we texted, or snapped, or messaged, or sat on the couch, or the bed, or the floor, or in the car for hundreds of miles and talked. How can you just shut it off so easily?

This can't be real. There's no way this is real. Every morning I wake up, too early, and I realize that it's real. But it can't be. It can't be real.

What is wrong with you? Are you a psychopath? A sociopath? Was this all a game to you? Do you enjoy the terrible pain you are putting me through?

Our dog is depressed: he just sleeps and whimpers and I cannot console him. His favorite person in the world disappeared in a moment and he will never see her again. And you don't care.

How can you not care? Did you ever care? How can I believe you cared as you continue to cause so much pain?

Why do I still love you? Why do I still miss you? Why do I still help you?

Why do I still have hope?

I want to not want you. I want to hate you. I should hate you. Why can't I?

You are nothing but a selfish monster, and I should hate you. Why don't I hate you?

I keep reading all of the notes you wrote me, and looking at the literally thousands of pictures and videos we have of each other. You were so in love with me. You were so happy. But now you say that you weren't? Did you hit your head? Did you have a lobotomy in secret? What is wrong with you?

I am praying for the day that you come back, because it's all that I want, but I hope that by the time you pull your head out of the garbage that it's in that I will be strong enough to tell you off.

I want you to feel the pain that I do. I didn't deserve this, you do.

But I would never hurt you. I would never put you through this. I would never do this to you.

Why are you doing this to me?

Why won't you talk to me?

I miss you so much.

Please talk to me.

I love you.

[pearlsw]

What I'd like to say:

What the heck is wrong with you?

We had a life together. We had so much.

You just walk away. Just like that.

How is this so easy for you?

Please talk to me.

I love you.

Hi munkeynoodle,

This is all still so fresh, her leaving like this. I am so sorry for the pain this has caused you.

Is he speaking to her mother as far as you know? How far away is she living now?

Do you think there is any chance for her to come back? (based on what you have seen of her in the past)

Sincerely, pearl.

[munkeynoodle]

She is telling her mother and everyone else that she is not in a relationship, that she is just working on herself. Her mother spoke to her about how worried it makes her that her daughter is traveling to other states alone to meet a guy from the internet, and she agreed she would not see him. But they are seeing each other, which I showed her. So no, I do not think he is in contact with her mother. She lives about an hour from me now, and maybe three or four from where she meets her boyfriend in Ohio, and probably seven from where he lives in Michigan.

I keep hoping that there is a chance, but there doesn't seem to be. She has remained in contact with all of her previous relationships, but she has yet to recycle anyone -although she is still only 22. And when she left her last relationship she was with me within a week, and we were talking for a while before that. When we started she was not looking back and had no regrets. She has never cut anyone out as completely as she has me -even unfriending and ignoring texts from my family (like my sister, who has her in her wedding pictures from the week before she cheated on me), and it seems that she is unwavering in her resolve and unremorseful for it's affects.

It just seems like everything is lost and hopeless. I feel lost and hopeless. Sometimes I feel angry, and it feels better, but that passes quickly and I just miss her.

It is so painful that I miss her so much and am in so much pain while she is so completely through and happy.

[mssalty]

Why do you hate you so much?   And why do you take it out on us?

Would the world end if you apologized, or admitted when you were wrong?   

Is this the thing you want to draw a line in the sand about?  Is this argument worth driving another wedge between us? 

Do you know that you’re lying, or do the facts change because you can’t stand to be the one at fault?  Do you understand how crazy I feel when we can’t agree on basic facts?

You tell me I’m different.  A worse person. How do you see yourself?

Is it fair to dump two tons of hate on me and then run away when I push back? 

[Enabler]

mssalty,

I've just got a new list... .your list... .you summed it up perfectly

[Chosen]

Hi Chosen,

Interesting to hear! May I ask, do you feel like a failure? How do you feel about yourself? Despite what he says, is your self-esteem holding up or being eroded here? If it is being eroded are there things you could do to bring it back up?

Do you work with depersonalization to take some of the sting out of his nasty comments?

with compassion, pearl.

pearl, I think my self-esteem has definitely taken a hit- how can you not be, when you're hearing all the bad things about you coming from the mouth of the one closest to you?  Part of me knows it's not the complete picture- I might have made some mistakes, but don't we all?  And also, I know a lot of it has got nothing to do with ME, and has everything to do with his past hurt/ his feeling of abandonment/ etc.  That does make things easier, so I can keep going without being utterly depressed (if I become depressed, I'm sure he will say I have no right to be depressed, he should be the depressed one as I'm so terrible to him, etc).  But I don't want to just "get by".  And sometimes it's really tiring and I feel really lonely and stuck.  It's not that I want to get away from him, but I don't want him to be like that, and part of me knows that HE is not going to change. 

[badknees1]

This is what I would say to BPD wife -
Stop blaming me for ruining your life and causing you to lose your beauty, femininity, joy, and self image. Take responsibility for your own life, happiness, and future. Get help, I will get help too. Stop blaming me me for drawers being left open, cars being dirty, and not treating you as a woman. Your criticism of me won't solve any of your problems, it pushes me away.

[k54]

This is what I would say to BPD wife -
Stop blaming me for ruining your life and causing you to lose your beauty, femininity, joy, and self image. Take responsibility for your own life, happiness, and future. Get help, I will get help too. Stop blaming me me for drawers being left open, cars being dirty, and not treating you as a woman. Your criticism of me won't solve any of your problems, it pushes me away.

Dang! Took the words right out of my mouth. drawers and car too! I spent a fair bit of time trying to fix these things, and still do, before I knew about BPD. It wasn't until I took responsibility for it all, and she still was mad at me that I realized something was up. Also I wondered about why she was always so mad about the way I loaded the dishwasher, and yet it didn't seem strange to her that when she did the dishes, on the rare occasion, she never washes the pots.