FF needs some quick advice on to text back or not

[formflier]

There is a lot of low grade griping  and blaming and inviting me to fight about stuff coming in via text.

Claims she is out of money... or down to $150 and change because an Amazon item was erroneously charged to her card instead of mine... .at most... 2 to 300 bucks worth of stuff.

However... .I can "see" a balance only to her account when/if I try to transfer money... and there $900 and change in there.

I haven't responded... .

She assures me they are having a good time "in spite of" me and my attempt to "ruin" things

Do I dare text anything or just let it burn out? 

I would like to say something validating and show a boundary... .but my gut says don't text back at all.

Who knows... ?

FF

[Skip]

Why not just fix the error?

[formflier]

Why not just fix the error?

Ok... it seems I have a bit more time.  I thought I had to run out the door.

I asked my wife a few days ago when she pointed this out to me if she wanted me to audit the account to make sure everyone had paid for their own stuff.  I haven't done so... .but it would overwhelmingly go in "my favor" and not her. 

I've removed my card from amazon and only put it up there when I purchase... it goes through... then I remove.

My wife didn't respond... .so I didn't do anything.

Today she responded.  essentially she said (via text... .)

My lack of putting money in their means I meant to do it to stop their trip and if I want to audit the amazon account I should file for divorce.

Honestly... I've not even checked to verify the purchase in question really is on her card and not mine. 

I suppose my "boundary" is I won't make a correction unless we have a conversation... .a kind conversation.

Gotta run out the door... I'll check back in a bit

Thanks for speedy response. 

FF

[Skip]

I suppose my "boundary" is I won't make a correction unless we have a conversation... .a kind conversation.

That's not really a boundary, that's squabbling after a trigger. There error needs to be corrected (either she is owed or not owed). You feel her request has attitude, you want to respond to the attitude more than the issue at hand, because you don't like it.

Is it possible there is no attitude and your are triggering (real question)?

If this is attitude, is it a 3 or 5 or 10 (on a scale of 1-10)?

If you don't respond, is that rewarding bad behavior (you want ti opick thesebattle carefully)?

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Skip has some great questions and I agree. 

Also, is it really an error? Meaning, are you able to "trust but verify" the error? If so, that may help you decide what to do and how to handle it. Having said that, I do have a lot of trust issues with my ex. I caught him in several lies trying to get more money out of me. I don't know if you wife would do this or not. I'm putting this out there just in case.

She may have an attitude about it which does not help the matter.  If she seems to be trying to bait you into a fight, I would recommend not going there and if anything, just try to address the issue at hand. Stick to the facts and only the facts. Engaging in an argument generally won't help. It is tough to decide whether to respond or not and what to say if you do respond. Maybe just trust your gut on how to handle it. I hope this helps.

[Sunfl0wer]

I suppose I do not understand why there is a “sense of urgency” when she is having a good time?

Why not say your glad she is having a good time... .
Not sure what to make of money dear
Remind me about it later if ya like...
Have fun!

?

Seems there is a balance of... .
Being drawn IN to the communication
Vs an observing posture and responding in reflective manner.

Money issues will not go away no matter how u reply.  They are inherint in every relationship?

Yet... .practicing not being triggered into reflexive posturing vs reflective posturing... .maybe worth pondering.

[formflier]

My "financial boundaries" are well known to her.

If she exhibits disrespect... .my wallet stays closed. 

If there is a kind request, the "normal" thing that happens is a brief back and forth about the subject and then money is transferred over and the deal is done.  Given the history of "agreements" with my wife, I only do agreements that are "right now".

I suppose it has been a trigger in the past, I didn't feel particularly triggered by this.  Before opening a can of worms I wanted to know how she wanted it handled.

What I think I will find is that a purchase was made on her card (I'll take her at her word) but I think if you look around... even in the previous few weeks that the number of "oopsies" is in her favor (she owes me money and not me owes her money).

Big picture:  I had relaxed some and not removed my card from Amazon after each purchase.  I don't really remember when, it just wasn't on my mind.  Once I noticed it... .I removed it. 

So... .I was content to let things stay.  But... if she wants to make sure everyone pays for her own stuff... we can do that, I wanted to make sure that's what she was asking.

If she was asking me to pay for my errors and pay for her errors... .if she actually was bold enough to say that.  Well... .I'd cross that bridge when I got there,  but I can't imagine I would agree to that.

Sorry I was in a rush earlier... .the texting seems to have stopped.  I was trying to see if there was something nice or validating I could say... .but I didn't respond at all. 

I'll give it some more thought tonight.

Hey Skip... I appreciate your quick response.  Going forward... I would appreciate asking about my feelings rather than apparently mind reading... or perhaps challenging or "pushing me" to see if I really am triggered.  Not sure.   What was your intent there?

I'm the son of multi-generational bankers, part of the way through an MBA course (with lovely accounting courses) (I could go on about financial stuff).  Anyway... point being... .in my world math matters.  Those are my values and apparently not my wifes.

So... my refusal to move forward on financial matters without clarity and a conversation were not a squabble to me, but a thoughtful way of relating to my wife that protects my values. 

I get it that way sometimes rubs my wife the wrong way and I've thoughtfully considered that my values are more important (on these financial matters) than her ever changing feelings.  I'll trust her to work through all that in whatever manner she chooses without me trying to control her.



FF

[formflier]

So... .this was what got me asking.  I was trying to figure out if there was anything helpful I could say.  I really didn't have much time... which was the purpose of me reaching out here. 

(please ignore the time stamps... .something weird is going on with some of my accounts... time zone wrong or something)

Anyway... .since I couldn't figure out something helpful... .I figured I would keep my mouth shut.

Subsequently I got a call from the Navy base she is going to... .wanting to coordinate the check in.  I gave them her number and encouraged them to call her directly.

Black mulch on sale at Lowe's $2 a bag. We could use 10 - 15 more bags 10:30 PM

Me: $1.80 per bag was the price for us with the military discount. I got some ordered... will pick it up later today 6:37 AM

Me: wishing you safe travels... please take lots of pictures! 6:38 AM

 FFW: Hey can u put $100 in Wells Fargo so we can fill up the van 11:34 AM

 FFW: 1/4 Here are my thougts on Amazon... .We are married... .if you would like to go they the account and make sure we each haveeach paid for our own purchases then 12:41 PM

 FFW: 2/4 file for divorce. If charging several hundred dollars to my card days before I leave for vacation was a mistake them put the money back into my account.12:41 PM

 FFW: 3/4 You can see my checking account on pefcu... .After your 'boo boo' using my card I had $150 left. Not sure how you thought the kids and I would be able to12:41 PM

 FFW: 4/4 make it to the and Pensacola? 12:41 PM

Me: butt dial... .sorry... .in the middle of something... .let me get back to you in a few minutes 12:44 PM

 FFW: 1/2 While you served in the Navy 20 years I was raising our children. Not earning a salary or retirement of my own because you said that the military retirem12:44 PM

 FFW: 2/2 ent was both of ours as we were both working whether or not we both got a paycheck. 12:44 PM

 FFW: 1/3 Yet now you have given me no access to it. You lost my retirement. I am working now to support myself. I am starting at 45 years old where you began at 2 12:48 PM

 FFW: 2/3 0. You will be getting retirement pay for 20 years before I have been working long enough to get retirement and then you will get it for only a few years 12:48 PM

 FFW: 3/3 before I die. 12:48 PM

 FFW: 1/2 You are the one who took everything and then commanded 'tou control the income you earned'. You should have said this when we first got married so I coul 12:50 PM

 FFW: 2/2 d have chosen a different path. Instead you promised me we were working together for us not just for you. 12:50 PM
 FFW: 1/4 I stopped at a gas station yesterday after I discovered you spent hundreds of dollars from my checking account and I cried in the bathroom for almost 20 12:55 PM

 FFW: 3/4 ot make the trip. What you didn't know is that on top of building a retirement for myself, I had all so been saving money and I had some in savings. You 12:55 PM

 FFW: 2/4 minutes. Not because my trip was ruined. It is not. But because you took money from my account leaving me with only $150. You did that knowing we could n 12:55 PM

 FFW: 4/4 did not stop our trip to Pensacola. 12:55 PM

 FFW: I cried in the gas station bathroom for you. What kind of person could do that to another... .his own wife and children. 12:56 PM

 FFW: I am praying for you  FF. 12:57 PM

 FFW: We are having a wonderful time in spite of you. 12:57 PM

 FFW: And if you really did not purposely use my card... .You have not put the money back. 1:00 PM

 FFW: 1/2 You say I am at fault for the decline of our marriage. You are the head of our household... .If I did something that you did not like you should have lovi 1:03 PM

 FFW: 2/2 ngly came to me and let me know rather than make recordings to show others. 1:03 PM

 FFW: 2/2 vity towards me became yours. 1:08 PM

 FFW: 1/2 Tou have your opinion about our marriage... .looking back I can beour marriage began to decline shortly after your parents moved in with us. Their negati1:08 PM

 FFW: 1/2 I thought ignoring their rants about me was the best option. Had I know their negativity towards me would become yours I would have talked to you about 1:11 PM

 FFW: 2/2 it after the first time hearing them in the basement complaining about me. 1:11 PM

 FFW: I have made my ahare of miatakes for sure. I only pray you can see and admit that you have made just as many and just as big. 1:12 PM

 FFW: We are human... .We all make mistakes... .none are better or more deserving than another. 1:12 PM

 FFW: 1/2 I have no I'll will towards you... .You deserve your military retirement as you worked for it. I may get no more etary compensation for my hard work and d1:16 PM

 FFW: 2/2 edication but I am reading the benefit of great relationship ahipa with my children who love me. 1:16 PM

 FFW: I am reading the benefit of great relationships with my children who love me ... 1:17 PM

 FFW: Reaping 1:17 PM

 FFW: Wouldn't trade that for all the retirements in the world. 1:17 PM

 FFW: Enjoy your time with your mom over the fourth. 1:18 PM

[formflier]

So... .here is the text from a day or to previous that she was apparently responding to.

I gave a couple lines before and after to give some context of when my wife chooses to communicate about money and some of the flavor of how I text about random things.
Essentially... they had just left on trip and I was bringing them something and remembered an envelope in the van that I needed.  Apparently a little while later she decided to reach out about money.

Listen... .I know this is not a system I would recommend to anyone... .but it works the best of any system we have had since 2014, when my wife abrogated our financial agreement that had worked for years... .(and she will sometimes say she was wrong to do that, yet "i made her" or "she had no choice".)

And it's much better thant the chaos of my wife having direct access to "my" money.

She has a full time job of her own... .I'm vaguely aware of how she spends her money.

FFW: Yes... .although I do not see an envelope in the driver's door 10:51 AM
Me: if you can rummage around and look... I would appreciate it... perhaps I don't remember correctly. I had taken the van through the wash 10:52 AM
Me: it would be one of those envelopes from sams club for gift cards... .and some passes and maybe a gift card or two inside 10:52 AM
FFW: Found it 10:52 AM
Me: oh... good! 10:53 AM
Me: Yeah... I'm on my way in just a few... in the rental van 10:53 AM
FFW: 1/2 Please put $120 into my checking account the Amazon Prime membership was charged on my card. Please put a hundred 5144 in my account the steam cleaner wa 11:51 AM
FFW: 2/2 s charged from Amazon to my card 11:51 AM
FFW: That was $151. 44 for the steam cleaner 11:52 AM
Me: Oh goodness, sorry that happened. Are you suggesting we separate our Amazon purchases from now on? Would you like me to audit the account and make sure we've each paid for our own purchases? Please let me know your thoughts? 11:54 AM
FFW: Also I paid $40 at Norman and Miller Eye Care 11:56 AM
FFW: Then $14. 82 for the warranty for the steamer 11:56 AM
FFW: June 23rd Amazon $89. 32 and $98. 76 12:00 PM
Me: congrats! We are the proud owners of 3 "non-motorized lake permits"! They just came in the mail 8:05 PM
Me: (dogs name) was looking for you this morning ! 5:42 AM
Me: Imagine her jumping by your side of the bed 5:42 AM

[Skip]

What was your intent there?

My general suggestion is always to focus on resolving the matter at hand in whatever way is equitable and not get caught up with the attitude... .drama triangle 101 - move to the center... .unless this happens to be a hill to die on. I asked some questions to qualify that.

[formflier]

 unless this happens to be a hill to die on.  

It is.  Well... money is.  

It's taken me around $40-50k to get through my noggin that she can't be trusted with money.  

To be fair she has paid some back.  Perhaps as much as $500 and that was over a couple of different issues.  The last time or two I asked for repayment for something... or some consideration... .it was painful... she didn't pay it back and I took the lesson to mean it's up to me to make sure that "my card" doesn't get in the way of "her spending".  When I have made a mistake and left it there... .I don't ask.

I'll check Amazon in a bit, this wasn't my intent to "teach her a lesson" but she has removed her card.

So... since last fall when I severed the last access she had "to my money" (money that comes in that is only in my name)... .she has been testing, threatening (although much less than I figured she would)... .but life goes on.

When she is "kind and reasonable" she has access (despite her claims to the contrary) by asking.  Most of her requests have been reasonable.  

The few times she's gotten yippy or disrespectful... I've gone about my business and somehow she has figured things out.  


FF

[formflier]

Is it possible there is no attitude and your are triggering (real question)?

If this is attitude, is it a 3 or 5 or 10 (on a scale of 1-10)?

If you don't respond, is that rewarding bad behavior (you want ti opick thesebattle carefully)?

I suppose it's possible.  All I have to go by is the texts... which I have provided.  I'm interested in your opinion about any "attitude".  Honestly... I don't see any in the request... .she said please.

In my response to her I was careful not to accuse and asked for her thoughts on how to solve this (again... you guys read and decide for yourself.)

While I'm not surprised it went in the direction it did, I also wouldn't have been surprised if there was a more reasonable response.  (there is history of reasonably working out stuff like this for "right now" things).  Yes... doing it via text.  In person breaks down much quicker.

So... was I triggered by this?  It's possible, but highly unlikely.  I did have a million other things on my mind and my big "emotional" thing on my mind was worrying about a mare that is "constantly in heat" and when I mentioned I was "running out the door"... it was to meet the vet over at the farm. 

I'm still concerned about the mare, we'll know more in a couple weeks.  Gave a shot to see if we can break up the constant heat (several months of constant heat).

Now... I was "concerned" enough about my wife and the texts to want to do something helpful (or not do anything at all)... .which was why I reached out here... .in the off chance someone had a helpful text suggestion.


(if it was attitude... what was it)  Again... I don't think it was... and if it was it was mild.  For clarity... .no attitude in her original ask.  She chose to not respond and I chose to not pester her.

I was trusting that she would think about my response... in whatever way she decides is best.

Lots of attitude today.  I would give it a 6 (but my scale could be way off)

Please expand more on last question  I think I could be rewarding bad behavior by responding without clarity of a conversation.  I can't imagine a way I'm rewarding bad behavior by not responding at all (but please let me know if you have more thoughts on this


Did I answer all the questions? (sorry... didn't have time earlier)

FF

[formflier]

So my plan is that I'm not going to reach out to my wife during the vacation.  Hopefully she will enjoy herself.

I'm open to your guys thoughts on this, but nothing about the texts seems like she wants a conversations.  It appears to me she wanted to get all that stuff out... .

I'll try to check Amazon and do some more thinking on this later tonight.

FF

[Enabler]

but nothing about the texts seems like she wants a conversations.  It appears to me she wanted to get all that stuff out... .

I don't disagree with you there FF.

The way I see there and yes I am extrapolating out some lines of thought from sketchy info BUT... .she feels like the naughty kid who's been on the naughty step for many many years now. My guess is internally she knows she makes 'mistakes' with spending but you have taken the moral high ground for an extended period. She feels like you've been punishing her... .you think you've been ring fencing your financial stability by retaining the keys to the family vault (your income and saving). You have a longer memory with mental scars of the 40-50k experience... .maybe she has minimised that and was 'entitled' to spend that money.

By the sounds of things W has spent a long time formulating a 'reason' to justify/turn the 'mistake' into an entitlement. You are now punishing her/controlling her/abusing her for her necessary and rightful entitlement. So, when she finds an 'error' by you, well of course she's punishing you for it. I have found in the past that when I take the moral high ground and push for better standards (especially with money) my actions are not seen as being sensible, but punitive. It doesn't matter how long the better standard has to prove out that it is better e.g. "I will send you smaller amounts of money until you can show me that you don't go overdrawn, please get alerts set up on your account so you are aware of your balance". I have not restricted the number of times she can ask for money nor controlled her spending nor really question her spending, just want her to stop going overdrawn incurring bank charges (we tried larger transfers and that made things worse as there was no incentive for her to regularly check her balance). This was perceived as coercive control... .

Unless you are prepared to stop 'penalising' her there is very little to discuss. If you were prepared to address her perception of being penalised you could discuss (after vacation) how to transfer more income and more responsibility together with more accountability. Appologising unreservedly, making yourself accountable is is also a good way to show her what accountability looks like... .and eat her disrespect/gloating.

[formflier]

I've tried the apology and more accountability route.

When I said I severed ties last fall... .it was really the last thing I could think of to do.

I wish I had done it sooner.  All of my other actions had this "thought" that there was a reasonable person that would "appreciate" it with some sort of consistency.

There was a while where she managed it all... .of course she claimed she could do better.  She figured out it was  hard... .said I tricked her into doing it and quit.

Granted... .my real estate part of the finances makes it a bit different that a "normal" family budget.

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

FF

[Fian]

Here are my thoughts on the situation:

1.  The goal of having separate finances is to prevent her from draining accounts, and spending large amounts of money (often on her family).  By having separate accounts, you are protected from that.
2.  Going on a trip does have a lot of extra expenses, and it is not surprising that a person with BPD wasn't able to budget effectively.  IMO, a better plan would be to have had a discussion with her before the trip, and allocate additional money into her account for the trip.
3.  The  Bible says "If a person sues you for your tunic, give him your cloak as well."  My counsel would not be too worried about whether the mistakes add up in her direction.  Your goal was to protect the lion's share of your money from her misuse, which has been successful.  If refunding her some money on some extra charges is what it takes for marital stability, I think that is a small price to pay.
4.  I think you are focused on the way that she has asked.  That is a harder issue, as I understand the fear of if she is rewarded for bad behavior, she will keep doing it.  Is there a way that you could solve the financial issue, but let her know that the reason why you delayed in sending money was due to the way that she asked?

[juju2]

Hi F.

kudos for pausing, and pausing again.

in hindsight, not every molehill becomes mountain, did i really need to get in the middle of.

Women like to talk it out (text).  It doesnt mean you have to solve the problem.  Sometimes just getting it out for me, releases the power behind the presenting issue.   Usually the issue isnt the real issue.   Its something else, down deep, that keeps feeding into this recurring "issue".  No one knows what it is, something gets triggered, the deep seated issue bumps the other recurring issue, and also at the same time, lets take your peace and serenity, i want to still know i can mess w your serenity.   I think its all from insecurity.  From what i have read, of your story, somehow, despite all you are and do for her, she is insecure in her role.  I could be wrong.  It wouldnt be the first time.

Its good she is getting everything out, she is sharing, being vulnerable.   All good.   

Happy 4th, you have helped a lot of people, j

[formflier]

Fian,

Since it was "her trip".  I didn't discuss finances with her at all.  She didn't ask or bring it up.  Had she asked for money for "her" trip... .well... .I'm not sure.  It depends on a lot of things.

Clarity... .I have no problem with the way she asked.  As you guys can see, I sent back some clarifying questions and was patiently waiting a response.  (that part I'd do all over again)

Once she unleashed the next day... yeah... I have a problem with that.

Yes... I'm not going to reward bad behavior.  Bad behavior=wallet closed.  Good behavior=ears open on hubby (and likely wallet as well).

Pretty simple.

FF

[Notwendy]

FF, I think there are two issues here. Your wife is focusing on one, you are focusing on the other.

The reason you are controlling the money is that she is not responsible with it. If she was a responsible wife who earned less than you, and she was also responsible with money, you would have no issue jointly sharing the financial resources and responsibilities with her. I think this situation is probably typical for the members in your church. I am not of your religious denomination but I know families who are. They tend to be traditional, with the wife taking on the role of home and children ( even if she works some but many don't) and the husband being the breadwinner. However ideally both husband and wife are equals in terms of making financial decisions, budgeting. One spouse is not taking the kind of control you are doing. Ideally they should not have to. But you tried this and it was not good for your family. It didn't work, so you did the correct thing by taking control.

I don't think spouses should micromanage finances to the point of controlling everything the other spends. If they can afford a new dress, or shoes, or starbucks coffee, they should not have to ask permission for that. But I do believe that major expenses should be discussed first or there is a loss of trust. There is a term for this- called financial infidelity. It is when one spouse does things with large amounts of money behind the other spouse's back. The damage to the relationship is not just financial but also emotional. But so is taking control of the money.

So FF, she is going to feel like she feels and IMHO, many people would in her situation. FF- you have 8 kids and when you did have a career, someone needed to take care of them and if she did, then she didn't have time to devote to building a career and saving money. The disconnect is that she is having these feelings without looking at the real reason she is in this situation- she can not be trusted with money.

You are between a rock and a hard place. On one hand you have a marriage where both of you are equals with the money and she abuses that. On the other hand, you control it like you do and face the kind of issues this causes to a marriage. IMHO I think it is best to focus on the real reason- "Wife, I understand how you feel, but my reasons are because I can not trust you with access to the money".  She's taking about other issues that are the result of the control you took. But this is the choice you made.

[formflier]

Yep... .I agree. 

For years we had a set budget that just happened (and we periodically talked about it and made adjustments).

Then... .for the rest of the time our "agreement" (back when she kept them) was that if it was less than $100... .you were cleared to get it without asking first.  (assuming it was not covered in budget)  However, we both knew it would be discussed later.

If it was over $100... .ask first.  Or make sure the deal can be completely undone.

That "deal" lasted for years... .looking back I'm amazed.  It was rare that either of us asked the other to undo something.  By and large... we talked about "outside the budget stuff"... before hand.

She abrogated that agreement for paranoid reasons.  Other agreements since then have lasted up to a year before she abrogated.

FF

[Notwendy]

Keep in mind, she is likely going to see this from victim perspective.

I think the $100 limit is a good one. If more, at least discuss it. Once trust is broken, it is very hard to re-establish that.

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/overcoming-financial-infidelity

[formflier]

Keep in mind, she is likely going to see this from victim perspective.

I think the $100 limit is a good one. If more, at least discuss it. Once trust is broken, it is very hard to re-establish that.

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/overcoming-financial-infidelity

I assure you that she see's it from that perspective.  Since my family and I "manipulated" her into thinking that I was about to divorce her... .so the correct thing is to empty all the accounts. 

Had I not "made her think that"... .it wouldn't have happened... .so... "she was tricked".


From time to time she does see it clearly... .I used to get sucked in and do another agreement... .very unlikely I would ever do another one, unless it was a post-nuptial of some kind.

FF

[braveSun]

May I ask you, FF, how do you feel about having to control the money for both of you?

Brave

[formflier]

May I ask you, FF, how do you feel about having to control the money for both of you?

Brave

It's fine... .simpler because I don't get "ambushed" anymore.  She controls money she earns from being a teacher (public school).

I also have to run the money from the farm and real estate business... .so I'm talking to and giving stuff to CPAs. 

Really sucks to be running a business like that and have a bunch of working capital disappear in an emotional fit. 

I was shocked... .I just didn't think people would do that... .

FF

[braveSun]

Really sucks to be running a business like that and have a bunch of working capital disappear in an emotional fit. 

I was shocked... .I just didn't think people would do that... .

FF

I get it... Must have been hard to take in.

[braveSun]

For years we had a set budget that just happened (and we periodically talked about it and made adjustments)... .

That "deal" lasted for years... .looking back I'm amazed.  It was rare that either of us asked the other to undo something.  By and large... we talked about "outside the budget stuff"... before hand.

She abrogated that agreement for paranoid reasons.  Other agreements since then have lasted up to a year before she abrogated.

FF

What would you think made for heavy feelings when the switching in attitude happen?  Looks like something in your trust broke for both of you than but not before.

[formflier]

So... who knows exactly what processes drove my wife to abrogate her agreement.

On the day she did it, she had announced to me that I would be showing up at a certain time to sign over a vehicle to her... or perhaps add her name to a vehicle.

She believed (paranoia I guess) that they weren't "hers" as well. 

I had an appointment on the other side of the county (I was county manager) and cell phone reception was spotty (very rural).  I let her know I already had appointments and would discuss vehicles with her later.

She sent lots of threatening texts, threatening voicemails... .most of which I ddin't get until I got back into cell service.

I did not sign vehicle over.  At some point that day she cleaned out the account and put it in her own account.

I discovered the move a few days later... .she wouldn't put it back.  The rest is history.

No idea to this day why cars being in her name suddenly mattered.  I simply don't understand that part.

FF

[braveSun]

Eerry... Paranoia can be weird.
It can make people do weird things.


I would not give excuses to people acting out on paranoid thoughts. I'm asking because sometimes inequalities in financial bases can make the person with a lower income feel trapped while the other person would not have same vulnerability.

Since the issue seems to come back around I thought there might be insecurities at play that are not necessarily obvious.

Yet, you have to protect yourself and draw the line somewhere. Especially if she did abrogate other agreements after that.

That's tough.

[Notwendy]

I think Bravesun makes a good point about discrepancies in earnings between spouses and insecurity.

I actually think it is rare to see both spouses earn the same amount- especially if one takes on the major share of house and kids while the other advances in career.

Was your wife financially independent before marriage and children ?

My H and I both worked full time with similar earnings until kids came along. He then earned more than I did . It was a tough transition. I think some couples handle this better than others. He also had the car in his name and I recall wanting it in both. ( I didn’t do what FF wife did ). It was more symbolic to me than material . I wanted to feel like we were equal players on a team. He didn’t understand that.

I can understand how your wife may feel. ( minus the paranoia ) It’s what she does with the feelings that is the difficulty.

I think many marital issues are common. It’s the addition of BPD that makes them more complicated to manage.

[Enabler]

One of the 'rules' of marriage is to not take more than your fair share. In FF's case he cannot trust his W to take her fair share. In my experience with my W often the person who has a penchant for taking more than their fair share is very much up for pooling money, whereas the person who consistently attempts to take their fair share (or less) progressively feels run over. It's a bit like that couple who always suggest going dutch on group meals out, surrounded by drivers and pregnant women they proceed to get starter/main (always fillet steak)/desert/coffee/shots/champagne/cocktails... .then smile sweetly as they divide perfectly by the number of people at the table.

I suggested that we had 3 accounts, moving away from 2 separate accounts. The 3 account model would be one where we each had our own personal accounts but we had a joint family account for general household things. This model wasn't optimal for me since when I constrained my W on her personal spending, she just moved to increasing household and kids spending, but I was willing to offer it knowing I would have visibility on the joint account and I would be showing 'trust' and promoting grown up behaviours. I believed this was also a good way to make her responsible for her own personal spending such that she would have no one else to blame for her errors. The model would consist of both of us being left with the same disposable income in our own personal accounts to spend/save with our discretion.

The idea was rejected as she felt offended that I didn't trust her to spend wisely out of pooled money... .so nothing changed.