What do you think are the chances for someone with BPD to cure without therapy?

[childhoodgone]

What do you think are the chances for someone with BPD to cure her negativity and anger spirals
without psychotherapy, but only by having a high salary therefore affording buying higher quality clothes, cosmetics (in the past she had not afford generally none)
and doing everyday intensive sports exercise?

Are there some chances, realistically?

Thank you for your thoughts and experiences sharing

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[schwing]

Hey Childhoodgone,

I think there is zero chance a person with BPD (pwBPD) with "cure" their negativity and anger spirals.  My understanding of this disorder is that the more connected, dependent, familial, they feel towards you, the more they will experience their disordered feelings which lead to their negativity and anger spirals (among other things).

If the pwBPD is high functioning (i.e. high salary position), then maybe the pwBPD can be particularly good at compartmentalizing their dysfunction.  But that would mean that everything else in her society is only insulated from their disorder.  The loved one(s) of the pwBPD, will bear the brunt of their disordered issues.

Material gratification (buying designer clothes, cosmetics), and physical condition (everyday intensive sports) might be some methods they would use to try to mitigate their disordered feelings, but none of this addresses why they have these feelings in the first place.  Eventually, the loved one of the pwBPD will bear the brunt of their disorder.

Realistically, you might be able to bear things for a couple of years, or longer if there is some consistent distance (like in a long distance relationship), but the issues will eventually escalate.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[once removed]

studies show that often times, some symptoms of BPD remit with age.

my dad didnt have BPD, but he did have difficulty regulating his emotions, and had disproportionate anger, along with some other BPD behaviors.

this declined in frequency and intensity starting around age 40 and began to plummet around 60.

it really depends on the person and a whole host of factors.

[GoGo]

I wouldn't get my hopes up.  My wife is probably borderline.  Her much older mother is probably borderline.  After over a decade of trying couples therapy, I don't see anything but individual therapy having a chance.

[pearlsw]

Hi childhoodgone,

I don't think the salary or cosmetics or exercise will amount to anything in terms of alleviating this. I think, from all you describe, she has a host of very serious issues. She seems to have been horribly abused and I think she needs a professional working with her long-term to help sort out her significant range of issues. (I hope this happens for her, but it is not your responsibility to make it so.) She needs help with empathy and how to treat others without use of violence and threats of rape.  There is also the issue with her making false accusations - this is something to be very cautious about.

It is helpful to ask questions and learn to understand her, that is a very important part of your journey of recovery and healing. It is also good to focus, in turn, on understanding yourself. What can you do now or in the future to create a life of safety and support for yourself?

Sincerely, pearl.

[braveSun]

childhoodgone,
I would definitely concur with the others in this, and I would add this.

You're asking an interesting question. To this I believe that having a better salary is indeed a good thing. Just like someone would have more opportunities for acquiring better clothes, one can also benefit from opportunities for better or more comprehensive treatment options.

My take on this is I wouldn't pitch one against the other. This seems counter productive. If she is poised to take a higher paying job and you wonder if that is a good idea, I'd say why not go for it? Either way you will not be able to control what she'll be doing with the extra income.

To me it seems that this could turn into an issue of control between the two of you.

Any backstory on that?

[childhoodgone]

Hi childhoodgone,

I don't think the salary or cosmetics or exercise will amount to anything in terms of alleviating this. I think, from all you describe, she has a host of very serious issues. She seems to have been horribly abused and I think she needs a professional working with her long-term to help sort out her significant range of issues. (I hope this happens for her, but it is not your responsibility to make it so.) She needs help with empathy and how to treat others without use of violence and threats of rape.  There is also the issue with her making false accusations - this is something to be very cautious about.

I am struggling very hard at this point.

I have as well a large range of problems which I have almost no idea at this moment how to handle them:

- I didn't sleep more than 30 minutes per night in the last days, and these 30 minutes have been filled with the worst, blackest
nightmares I can imagine. My mind seems that is under attack by this lack of the "devil you know".

- I don't feel any appetite. All I can do is sometimes drink water, and that is all

- How many hours/days per week do you recommend I should take psychotherapy? I feel like I would need several hours per day.

I think it is a very traumatic PTSD, and that I also have very much Stockholm Syndrome.

I have a hard time to find people who I can talk to, because everyone despises weakness in a man, and now I look like
a ghost of the nice, intelligent, highly educated man I was just at the beginning of the everyday relationship with the borderline impulsive

[babyducks]

Can you bring us up to date,  have you been to see a doctor, your regular doctor or any doctor about the not sleeping and not eating?   How does that typically work for you?

[childhoodgone]

Can you bring us up to date,  have you been to see a doctor, your regular doctor or any doctor about the not sleeping and not eating?   How does that typically work for you?

I write as much as I can here, at this moment world looks grey and sad, and many times  the  usual occureness of abuse, insults
(60%) and sometimes nice warm behaviour, calling nice names and care for little animals (5%) seem much more preferrable.

I am not sure yet if I afford doctors or if I can find a doctor that can be trusted.

I fear taking any strong pills that will take over my body and mind.

[babyducks]

We can talk to you as much as you want,  about what you want.   

Still,   how would you feel about starting to prioritize some of these issues and put your most important items first?

I think sleeping and eating should be at the top of the list.

What do you think?

[childhoodgone]

We can talk to you as much as you want,  about what you want.   

Still,   how would you feel about starting to prioritize some of these issues and put your most important items first?

I think sleeping and eating should be at the top of the list.

What do you think?

I agree about the sleeping part, how to achieve a good quality sleep?

Last period of sleep were very short, filled with overwhelimg fears and guilt, and short nightmares of lacking any hope

[babyducks]

Excellent childhoodgone,  very good.

Can I ask,  have you had trouble sleeping before?   Did anything help in the past?

I don't mind telling you I had to have help sleeping, I took a mild medicaton for about a week.    That's all it took to get me over the hump and back to a regular sleep pattern.

What do you think about that?

[childhoodgone]

I had the same troubles for one month when I went to scandinavian countries in a summer and the sun was shining at night, basically there was only day and no night and I didn't adapt to that.

Also at that time I was suffering after a 5 months relationship with another girl who was similarly very beautiful, sweet, but no abuse no violence no insanity from her, just that she slept with others and also did not like any care or weakness from my side

I think I have a overwhelming irrational fear of being abandoned and it often become some sort of self fulfilling prophecy, how do I stop that?

I appreciate very much your help babyducks and everyone else, it means a lot to me

[babyducks]

Let me ask you a tough question,    what one thing do you think you might be able to do which could help you sleep?

If you were writing to give some one else in your situation advice, what would you recommend they do?

[childhoodgone]

I can't give any good answer at this moment, I only feel a need to run without stop , and my muscles ache
and nothing seems to help at all

I want very much to live

[pearlsw]

I can't give any good answer at this moment, I only feel a need to run without stop , and my muscles ache
and nothing seems to help at all

I want very much to live

Hi childhoodgone,

I am very glad to hear you want to live! It is good to give ourselves positive thoughts to help counter the darker ones we can have.

All of one's problems can't be solved at once. It is good to be gentle and forgiving with ourselves. Perhaps developing some nice, healthy rituals around sleep could at least bring you some peace if not enough healthy, restful sleep, yet.

What could a nice bedtime ritual look like for you?

take care, pearl.

[SunandMoon]

Hi childhoodgone

Going back to your original question about if your girlfriend could recover without therapy, I would have to say - given all the things you've described in your posts - your girlfriend seems to have some serious problems and probably needs a lot of professional help.

Pearlsw put it perfectly:

 I think, from all you describe, she has a host of very serious issues. She seems to have been horribly abused and I think she needs a professional working with her long-term to help sort out her significant range of issues. (I hope this happens for her, but it is not your responsibility to make it so.) She needs help with empathy and how to treat others without use of violence and threats of rape.  There is also the issue with her making false accusations - this is something to be very cautious about.

You seem to be really struggling and that is easy to understand, with all the abuse and extreme behaviour you have experienced.

Please consider therapy for yourself. You don't have to take "any strong pills that will take over my body and mind." The choice to take medication or not is yours.

I think it would help you to talk to a professional who understands and can help you process everything that has happened to you.

[childhoodgone]

Yes I researched also the options for psychotherapy for myself.

I can tell in the distant past when I had psychotherapydid not help, although maybe they were all just not good choices

[childhoodgone]

All of one's problems can't be solved at once. It is good to be gentle and forgiving with ourselves. Perhaps developing some nice, healthy rituals around sleep could at least bring you some peace if not enough healthy, restful sleep, yet.

take care, pearl.

I achieved a lot in my lifetime. 2 institutes of Higher education , I have visited more than 20 countries, people that know me have described me as very intelligent but very sensitive.

My main problem is now a collapsed self esteem in which I feel like I lost everything and I cannot adapt myself to the new sad grey reality

[pearlsw]

I achieved a lot in my lifetime. 2 institutes of Higher education , I have visited more than 20 countries, people that know me have described me as very intelligent but very sensitive.

My main problem is now a collapsed self esteem in which I feel like I lost everything and I cannot adapt myself to the new sad grey reality

Hi childhoodgone,

You have made some notable accomplishments in life and that is a lot to be proud of. You are in good company with many members here! Can you build on this more to help recover your self-esteem?

What do you think you could do to start to rebuild your self-esteem? What would be the healthiest path forward for you?

You feel sad that she is not around? Is this the "new sad grey reality"?

warmly, pearl.

[childhoodgone]

I understand I often am deluding myself very much.

This year 80% - 90% of the time spent with her was just me listening to her anxious stressed nonstop rambling about absurd things that
often made no sense and they were just the exact opposite of whatever position she thought that I hold.

The intimacy was riddled with STDs.

She would often call me, ask me if I want to meet her, where I am, what I do, and when I answered all her questions,
she would say: "ok, let's meet then in the next days" - it was clear that she only wanted to be in control
of where I am, and what I do.

I do not know why my mind idealizes her sometimes so much (how she wanted to have babies with me, and raise our babies in a green village far away from
the large cities, how she would sometimes wash me and put me to bed and cover me, how she had all the ) that I burst into tears when I remember.

The highs and the lows... .

I was not perfect, actually I might be at fault in reacting negatively and being hurt at the evil insults she was throwing at me.

I value your support immensely Pearl and SunandMoon.

[pearlsw]

I understand I often am deluding myself very much.

I value your support immensely Pearl and SunandMoon.

Hi childhoodgone,

We are with you! You are not alone in this!

It would be hard not to react negatively when we are being treated in these ways by someone. It is hard to know how to react at all to any of this! None of us are perfect. We can make mistakes in communication under the best of circumstances. What makes these kinds of relationships extra challenging, hard to understand, and take time to get over is they overload our brains a bit!

My life is a bit calmer now, but I notice I have a lot of negative memories that are coming up lately from the last years and I need to get them properly sorted and move on. This does not happen over night, but the key is to look at them, be gentle and loving towards ourselves and to keep moving forward as best we can. We will slip back at times, but then we pick up again and move forward.

All relationships take time to process, but we can do it together! No reason to be on our own. We can talk about the sadness and loss, we don't have to look back in hate, we can see the nice parts of a person, but also realistically face all that has happened.

As I said, I think it is a good time to start a new thread on Detaching. I'll find ya over there!

Sincerely, pearl.

[childhoodgone]

The memories that come are emotional and many are good memories.

That is the absurdity and the irony of the situation I am in.

When I was with her, I noticed the bad parts and everyone told me to get out.

Now I remember the good parts.

I feel broken

[Chosen]

I don't think a person can be "cured" of BPD if they don't acknowledge they have problems.  I don't think going to therapy is the cure-all; in fact, if they don't think they have anything wrong, therapy can do the exact opposite (they will have one more therapist to blame, and they may blame you for being in it together with the therapist).  However, if they realise they have issues, they could use certain communication skills to improve or regulate their emotions, even without therapy. 

I understand how you feel; it's tiring and emotional being with a pwBPD.

[livednlearned]

I feel broken

You feel broken, and so sad.  

It's hard to sleep and eat, and see a path forward.

Many of us here have felt that way. Losing a BPD loved one can create a feeling of tremendous emptiness.

What do you think of babyducks suggestion to see a doctor and get help with your insomnia and nightmares?

What happened with the other psychotherapists you saw?

I had to tackle insomnia first before everything else began to make sense. Being that exhausted really messes up your thinking, and makes even simple decisions seem hard.

[childhoodgone]

But  BPD  manifests itself strongly usually  after the honeymoon period.

So a long series of new relationships, honeymoon phase with new partners being high on endorfins, oxytocin, etc,
then after months or years the negativity and abuses kick in again, and then the BPD person restarts again,
and so on repeated... .

Isn't it a biological sad circle... .

Why most people do not try to fix their relationships with the current partner, but resort getting new partners usually

[pearlsw]

But  BPD  manifests itself strongly usually  after the honeymoon period.

So a long series of new relationships, honeymoon phase with new partners being high on endorfins, oxytocin, etc,
then after months or years the negativity and abuses kick in again, and then the BPD person restarts again,
and so on repeated... .

Isn't it a biological sad circle... .

Why most people do not try to fix their relationships with the current partner, but resort getting new partners usually

Hi childhoodgone,

Do you also have this desire to "fix your relationship"? Do you consider this woman your current partner? Are you still on a pause? Has she made any effort to reconnect with you?

What does your therapist say about getting back into this relationship?

take care, pearl.

[childhoodgone]

Hi childhoodgone,

Do you also have this desire to "fix your relationship"? Do you consider this woman your current partner?  Has she made any effort to reconnect with you?

take care, pearl.

I found out from reading the list of symptoms that I probably am co-dependent (my parents raised me in extreme negative critiques, and they
are codependent themselves).

Tht is why, despite all the abuse, violence, insults, emotional scars, I am still considering which options there are to communicate with her.

I do not know which options I have for communicating again with her

[pearlsw]

I found out from reading the list of symptoms that I probably am co-dependent (my parents raised me in extreme negative critiques, and they
are codependent themselves).

Tht is why, despite all the abuse, violence, insults, emotional scars, I am still considering which options there are to communicate with her.

I do not know which options I have for communicating again with her

Hi childhoodgone,

Oh good. I'm glad you are reading about such issues! What did you identify with in terms of what you read? In what ways are you codependent?

warmly, pearl.

[childhoodgone]

in almost all of the ways, I am codependent.

I am also old already, so it's not like I will start now some 15 years long psychotherapy in order to cure codependency

That and the fact that the BPDgf was beautiful, this is why I supported all the abuses, violence, insults and anger
that gf made

What are the options and possibilities for her to return?