A choice to make: report ex's stalkerish behavior or not? Part 2

[Roler]

*** Continued from https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=326296.0 ***Update:

So, I did receive a reply from her, after 4 days. I thought she either is going to respond within 3 days or not at all. And she did.
Her message was not unexpected but still. 4 lines, stating basically I had completely destroyed and ruined her, that any peace or joy she had found (remember she is on a 10 week overseas trip at the moment), I had stolen and that she couldnt breathe, eat or live since my email. If I please never ever contact her again.

There is so much to say about this and yet again, why. I have by now recognised that her  reactions and emotions are usually in the 'superlative' form, her choice of words were not a total surprise. My initial feelings to this was that she didnt see the message, that her overwhelming emotion she got from my message was one of being caught out, being notified about it. And not that I had decided for both our sake to leave it with that.

Initially I thought it was a reply to my email when she left, the one stating that we now were going to go our own ways and my decision etc. BUt I take it it was the reaction to the latest message, after about 6 weeks of NC.

I understand her reaction, even more so now I have come to know more and more about how those emotions work for her. But I am sad in a way that she cant see beyond that initial emotion, and read through it till the end. Some of the words she choose, I recognise from previous times when her anxiety would flare up. The not being able to breathe was wordings she used in the passed when we would not be talking together.

Then I felt more like it was a reaction of a child that is caught with their hand in the cookie jar and, to divert the tension shame and guilt, throws a tantrum and makes it about the other person who had done the wrong thing by addressing the fact they had done something 'bad'. It was then I realised it would be useless to try and react again to that. The urge to write back and try and explain would be fruitless, and I have not felt the urge to do so any more. A few months back I would have, for sure. But this reply was so deprived from any insight in what would be perhaps an 'appropriate' reaction (using my own reference here: perhaps acknowledge the fact she had done it, shouldnt have and apologise in some sort of way and appreciate the fact I wasnt going to take it further), that I could not do anything else but just leave it for what it was.

I talked with my T about the reply. I felt in some way calm due to the absence of urge to write back, to try and 'correct' her vision of me. I came to feel it was also me, who wanted not to be painted so black, so heartless and cold. I so realised this was exactly what it was intended to, to have that effect on me, and yet I was fighting it. It was probably my ego in some way I said, to not want to be seen as the bad guy while I did something to 'protect' her. But I realised she would likely never see that (although I knew, that IF I was to explain it to her, she'd likely say " now I see how you meant that"... .if she wanted to). But she will use it to be able to distance herself, paint me black and gather more ammo for herself in justifying her reaction therefore.
My T told me, that her underlying message is also worded to make me feel that I dont care, that I can be so heartless to tell her off (regardless of the fact she did something that crossed a big line),that she likely felt I was moving on and  knowing I would take that aspect of not caring for her seriously, because I was actually the opposite and she knew.

I felt in some way proud I could resist to reply again to her message. I still do. Besides this one message back and forth, it has been NC for 7 weeks now. 3 more to go until she will be back at work (and I know we will be working alongside for a few hours on her first shift). But I feel this inner battle some days since this happened, that I find it difficult to be painted black in all this. I know this is inevitable, that it is part of the process and that it will be for her own detachment that this is the way it will go. I just wish I didnt care about it. And leave it.

7 days after this, I accidentally opened a social media we both have and in doing so, pressed the call (her) function in there. I immediately 'hang up', it lasted less than a second. I was under the impression she had blocked me and it should not have gone though in the first place therefore, but it must have registered the call on her side.  19 hours later I saw I had a missed call from her on the same media, I dont think it even rang on my side. So it might have been a 'return' error call, deliberately I think.

I'm just having a set back in the past few days. Was it that she took it as " he is still thinking about me and tried to reach out, which I think he would after what I wrote?" and therefore 'returned' the call, stating I am thinking about you too and want to reach out as well, ?

We have been NC still, and for both of us that is an unusual long time. But I feel it will continue, thinking we both have no words to break this silence for a good reason.

I'm just feeling ungrounded again atm. I was doing so well after her initial reply and can see how it is something so 'obvious' with what I have come to know about the traits. I wish I didnt care about being painted black. Wish I could focus on all the reasons I am doing now what I should have done many many months ago and that is to leave it behind. I dread the moment to be confronted with her again in 3 weeks and my T states she will mostly dread coming back too. And I'm not sure if that is a consolation.

:/

[Cromwell]

Hi Roler,

Its going to be very awkward with her coming back. I believe you are correct, it is her anxiety and shame at being caught out. I hope it ruins her holiday.

If I was in your position I would transfer and work somewhere else.

[Roler]

I'm not after ruining her holiday. But I will be honest and say that the thought of me alone suffering here with the knowledge of this situation while she would be overseas and thinking I would never find out, seemed a bit unjust to me. So I just shared my 'knowledge' with her...   Maybe providing some food for thought for her return.

As mentioned before: I'm bound to this workplace for another 18 months for a few reasons. I would have left already if that had not been the case.

[EdR]

Hi Roler,

Its going to be very awkward with her coming back. I believe you are correct, it is her anxiety and shame at being caught out. I hope it ruins her holiday.

If I was in your position I would transfer and work somewhere else.

Hi Cromwell!

Normally I agree with your posts. But in this case I don't think it is BPD shame... .She is genuinely hurt. And rightly so imho.

@Roler: you knew this could happen and you were strongly advised not to pursue this line of thought. You now have hurt her (on a holiday), even got back in contact in a way and now have the prospect of an awkward situation at work.
You accidentally press a call button in a social media app, but at the same time you seem to blame her when she returns the call and try to define this as 'her reaching out to you again'.
And on top of that you describe her behaviour as childish and BPD like, when even an outsider like me gets somewhat riled up over this... .

To me this all felt like some kind of power play from the get go. And I didn't like it. We tried to talk you out of it, but you now have showed her that you are in charge and you got power over her.
What was the gain here? You guys had an affair. You were just as wrong as she was. Take your responsibility and stop hurting her.

[Roler]

Hi Cromwell!

Normally I agree with your posts. But in this case I don't think it is BPD shame... .She is genuinely hurt. And rightly so imho.

@Roler: you knew this could happen and you were strongly advised not to pursue this line of thought. You now have hurt her (on a holiday), even got back in contact in a way and now have the prospect of an awkward situation at work.
You accidentally press a call button in a social media app, but at the same time you seem to blame her when she returns the call and try to define this as 'her reaching out to you again'.
And on top of that you describe her behaviour as childish and BPD like, when even an outsider like me gets somewhat riled up over this... .

To me this all felt like some kind of power play from the get go. And I didn't like it. We tried to talk you out of it, but you now have showed her that you are in charge and you got power over her.
What was the gain here? You guys had an affair. You were just as wrong as she was. Take your responsibility and stop hurting her.

EdR,

Before I reply to this message, because there is a lot I'd like to reply to, I think I have to verify first what it is, that makes you say she is hurt, in this case? She is hurt for me pointing out that she crossed a professional line? I probably misunderstand here.

Would you mind explaining it, so I understand what you mean from your point of view better before I reply?

[Cromwell]

Hi Cromwell!

Normally I agree with your posts. But in this case I don't think it is BPD shame... .She is genuinely hurt. And rightly so imho.

Hi EdR

Even if she is hurt, that is a good thing. Just like the pain people on here have had to endure, as a sign from the body that it needs treatment, so to should she be hurt to realise that she has been discovered violating someone else's privacy and jeaopardising her employment - which Roler has taken restraint upon himself not to pursue. This is a grown woman EdR, if she is panicking let me tell you why I think.

If there is an accusation made they will have a look through all her search history.

Is there a good chance that this isnt the first time she has looked up a non-work related individuals file? All I can say is I dont believe she was so terribly unlucky to be caught the first time around.

Id be "hurt" too to find out I was discovered and wondering what will await me on my return to work from holiday.

She should have thought about that at the time she was doing it.

[Roler]

Cromwell

Thank you for your words of support. 
I'm not after deliberately hurting someone as you can tell from my posts in here and you got my intention with telling her spot on. I in fact hope she realises that if it was with any body else who wouldn't see it in a more personal/bigger picture, she would have run the chance to jeopardise everything regarding her work.

@EdR: I struggle a bit with your reply and don't quite understand your point of view.  Thats why I hope you will explain so I can reply in a constructive way

Roler

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Roler,

How long until she is due to start back at work and how are you feeling about her return?  Now is a good time to work on any boundaries you may need to apply to yourself prior to her arrival.  What do you feel you may struggle with?  Bearing in mind you may be faced with any number of scenarios, what do you think will be most testing for you in order to remain true to your values?

Love and light x 

[Roler]

Hi Roler,

How long until she is due to start back at work and how are you feeling about her return?  Now is a good time to work on any boundaries you may need to apply to yourself prior to her arrival.  What do you feel you may struggle with?  Bearing in mind you may be faced with any number of scenarios, what do you think will be most testing for you in order to remain true to your values?

I'm not sure how I feel about her return. It is very mixed. At the moment it is the not knowing how things will go, that occupies my mind when I think about it. Certainly several different scenarios that all could be happening. Or none of them. It is just difficult to predict, and I just need to be prepared for all of them which makes it more difficult.
It is twofold: one is the personal side of things, the other the professional side. And they will be intertwined of course, at least still for some time to come.

The past few weeks of pretty much NC, being physically unable to be confronted with each other,  I feel I've started to sense I was able to get a bit better. Can focus on my family and wife and have slowly started to feel days here and there in which I could see myself find happiness again in things we do together. The thoughts relating to my ex I have daily, but I could let them not become overwhelming or make me wonder too much about how and what she'd be doing. But I am also very aware of the fragility of that sense of doing better. I realise the test will be when ex and me are being 'confronted' with each other again at work. I think we both don't know how the other will be. Not that I think that there is going to be big drama; after all we have been working together in times we had broken things off or were more or less not talking (many times over the past two years) . Those times working alongside each other didnt  give any dramas for the outsider, although we were both likely super conscious about the situation and how we were both behaving. Our eyes would still meet across the floor at times and lock for a second or 2 and we'd continue our work again. Just being very aware of each other's presence.

I find it difficult to predict how she will be when she gets back. I guess so will she. That's because the NC is the new factor in this. Even in times we had broken up in the past or were ' not talking', after a few days things would find their way again in communication. But now it has been pretty much 7-8 weeks of NC and therefore we both have no idea how the other is standing in the situation at the moment... .

What I hope, if I'm honest, is that I don't get triggered by something she does or doesn't do. I've gone through many scenarios, what if she seems not to care, what if she seems remorseful, what if she seems resentful, what if she totally ignores me, what if she comes up to me etc etc etc... .the possible scenarios are endless and I find myself just trying to stop anticipating what I cant anticipate or predict. I just hope I can keep my feelings under control when I see her again. All feelings. Some days I feel I could be just fine with whatever would happen, I after all am going my own way here (and so does she). But other days I also know from the past, that when we are together in the same space, a lot of feelings have the potential to come back, good and bad ones, as we both have had in the past and also said to one another.

[Skip]

@EdR: I struggle a bit with your reply and don't quite understand your point of view.  That's why I hope you will explain so I can reply in a constructive way... .

Roler, I certainly can't answer for EdR, but I think it would be helpful to look at this from 35,000 ft. This will probably be a little painful, perspective sometimes is, but please accept that I only seek to help.

The principle victims here are your wife and your family. The best thing for them would be for you to let go of any residual drama from the affair and focus on them. The damage from the breach with regards to your medical records pales in comparison to the damages of the affair. Yes, in principle, it was very wrong, but the tangible damage to you is zero. I suspect, had it been another co-worker on the floor, your first step probably would have been to ask at an opportune time, what happened in a non-confrontational way. "Hey Taylor, I happened to notice that you accessed my medical file recently... .curious what happened there"

Your ex is also a victim here at some level. Breaking off a two year relationship right before she departed on a 10 week vacation might have been a good idea for you, it probably wasn't for her. It's hard to imagine she didn't feel ambushed. Hard to imagine she didn't cry on her vacation about this. This might have something to do with her reaction, 5 weeks in, when you stirred up more emotion when emailed her a "caught you" on the medical record thing. She has no idea what is unfolding back at work.

Going at this thing full on is consuming a lot of emotion and keeping your connected, may force a employer change or relocation, may complicate the work environment, might incite retaliation... .
I'm not defending or minimizing the breach, or judging you, just suggesting that you look at this whole thing in context.

I understand that you feel violated. She probably feels violated. Break-ups typically include unresolved feelings of violations. You are trying to find avenge these feelings and this relationship is ending with trauma. It might be more practical to let go and try to prioritize peace so that you can function in the same work environment.

But now it has been pretty much 7-8 weeks of NC and therefore we both have no idea how the other is standing in the situation at the moment... .

What would be the best thing for your family (real question)?  What would be the best thing for that patients and the other employees (real question)? Should that be the best thing for you?

My suggestion is to write her a very brief note (maybe tuns some drafts here) to set the tempo for when she comes back. You can mail it to her so she sees it when she returns home.

[Skip]

I hope it ruins her holiday.

Why do you have personal feelings about this person?

[spacecadet]

Hi Roler, I was moved to respond to this post due to one reply which seemed unduly harsh to me. It led me to re-read the other post saying how you decided to handle this. It's always been your choice to make as to what to do about this.

As someone who's been cyber-stalked by my ex for about one year, including surveillance of my online activities and a key logger which was removed, I *completely* understand and empathize with your feeling of having been violated by your ex accessing your medical records. I told my ex to stop last August and he not only did not stop, he escalated. Alas there is nothing that I can do about it but that's my problem.

Back to you... .my inclination would have been to send her a note to say that you learned she'd accessed your records and that you won't report it, but that you expect and require that she never to do anything like this going forward.

By saying only that you won't report it for now, it does read as a threat and something that might get anyone's back up (bp or not). So it may, in fact, continue the drama and perhaps in some way keep the r/s going rather than really make a clean break.

Since she responded to your note, you have an opportunity to clarify your intent. My suggestion would be to reassure her that you will ONLY report her if she commits some other violation going forward. Personally I would add something like "regret that it disrupted your vacation, hope this clarification will ease the anxiety my first note caused."

In other words, if your goal is to contain the waywardness, this should suffice. The first goal when one is violated is to CEASE to violation.

The secondary goal is to deal with the pain of the betrayal. That's something you need to do on your own when your ex is too hurt and/or damaged to aid you with that, which is clearly the case with you and her.

[EdR]

Roler, my experience with people with at least BPD traits have mostly left me utterly confused. To be able to deal with this hurt and confusion I painstakingly looked for an explanation. So from the start of the devaluation phase I tried to cancel my own perspective and put myself in their place. I also tried to obtain an outsider's view.

It didn't provide me with answers, but I walked on egg-shells just do try and improve things. But both endings unfortunately remained unexplainable from whatever perspective I tried to obtain.

In your case (and every case on these boards) I take that same approach. So just like Skip said I am looking from another perspective. At the start of your thread multiple members, including me, provided a somewhat different perspective and tried to help and get you through this by applying the insight and knowledge our perspectives provided. Of course it would always be your own decision, but you did choose a different path than was advised. That wouldn't have been my choice, but I wouldn't judge you over it.

However, in your posts before my final reply you described her reaction to your e-mail in quite an unfair way imho.
I felt and feel like you completely lost perspective and are just stuck reasoning from your own state of mind. I did not and still do not think that your approach will help you in any way, but it has hurt her (and probably your family eventually) more than it did any real good... .

Of course she shouldn't have accessed your record. But was or is it worth all this?

To end with the start of my post: when I read your thread I didn't and don't see the typical unexplainable behaviours. Even the access of your records could just be a simple mistake caused by the emotions surrounding any break up. She didn't do anything with this information to hurt you. There was no smear campaign started with the info she retrieved.
But especially her reaction to your mail is really understandable imo.

Of course it would be easy to go with the flow and validate you. To blame your pwBPD. But I just think that would be unfair to her and on top of that I don't see that helping you one bit.

[Cromwell]

Why do you have personal feelings about this person?

Because I am all to aware of what its like to have privacy intruded upon, my ex did even worse.

and I think at the very least that she should ruin her holiday and sweat it out in proportion to what she has done.

[Skip]

Not that it needs to be said, but it never hurts... .

We are all here to support you, first and foremost. No question.

We are not in the emotional situation that you are in, so we can look at it with broader view and without the emotional bias anyone would have in a difficult situation like this.

Lastly, we are not here to pick who is right and who is wrong. If you take an action and your perception is possibility skewed, we want to help bring you back to the center so that you will make the best decisions going forward.

 

[Skip]

Why do you have personal feelings about this person?

Because I am all to aware of what its like to have privacy intruded upon, my ex did even worse.

and I think at the very least that she should ruin her holiday and sweat it out in proportion to what she has done.

Let's open a thread and talk about your experience. You affected quit a bit of retaliation in your relationship, it might be worth walking back through it... .

[EdR]

Because I am all to aware of what its like to have privacy intruded upon, my ex did even worse.

and I think at the very least that she should ruin her holiday and sweat it out in proportion to what she has done.

Hi Cromwell!

I understand the projection of your situation and hurt. But nonetheless you managed to provide a different perspective and advised against taking action in the beginning of the thread. So that was absolutely great imo.

But what I remember from your posts, your pwBPD almost always did this to clearly hurt/attack you. Part of the devaluation and painting black. That wasn't something I saw happening in this thread, so my reply surely doesn't crossover to your situation.

[Cromwell]

Hi Cromwell!

I understand the projection of your situation and hurt. But nonetheless you managed to provide a different perspective and advised against taking action in the beginning of the thread. So that was absolutely great imo.

But what I remember from your posts, your pwBPD almost always did this to clearly hurt/attack you. Part of the devaluation and painting black. That wasn't something I saw happening in this thread, so my reply surely doesn't crossover to your situation.

Hi Edr

I think there is little now to discuss except to wait and see what happens when she returns. It doesnt take an empath to read this thread from the start and realise that Roler - having gone against our advice - has been profoundly affected by his record being accessed. Hes crossed the rubicon, there is no point looking back and saying "oh, but I told you so", its in the past, the situation has changed and so does the advice need to evolve. She has accessed his medical record - taking the risk of losing her job - what else has she done? Thats what im concerned about.

[Roler]

I appreciate every reply and opinion in this thread. I'll try to respond later when I have some time behind a pc and not on my phone. Just wanted to acknowledge the input I'm getting with this from you all. Trust me when I say I'll be the first to judge myself, be aware of my part and own the responsibility now with this. I  don't take offence or feel unsupported. I'm honest in sharing my thoughts here as you are honest in sharing all yours. I came to start this thread to ask for thoughts, but fully realise it is my personal and work situation and I am the one to deal with it. Once again my thanks for your input so far.

[Roler]

….
As someone who's been cyber-stalked by my ex for about one year, including surveillance of my online activities and a key logger which was removed, I *completely* understand and empathize with your feeling of having been violated by your ex accessing your medical records. I told my ex to stop last August and he not only did not stop, he escalated. Alas there is nothing that I can do about it but that's my problem.

I think any person who has ever been in the position in which they have experienced a violation of their privacy (regardless the degrees in severity this comes in) will have been coloured by this experience for some time to come. It may be difficult to fully understand for those who have not experienced this, the true impact of such a breach.

……

Since she responded to your note, you have an opportunity to clarify your intent. My suggestion would be to reassure her that you will ONLY report her if she commits some other violation going forward. Personally I would add something like "regret that it disrupted your vacation, hope this clarification will ease the anxiety my first note caused."

This is where I doubt what would be best. If I was to send her a message, of a similar nature, meant to reduce her anxiety that my previous message had caused, I could be inclined to think it may perhaps be good for just that reason to do so.

However:
-   It would again be opening the communication where we now  have been in a NC timeframe (it has been about three weeks since my last message to her)
-   She could take it in a complete different way that I hope she would, perhaps lash out to me for contacting her again,and as such ignoring her request not to contact her (I refer to my previous post regarding her choice of words, and that during our relation we both have used those same words several times, equally ignoring those requests from each other on both sides because the urge to be in contact with each other after some times was stronger. In short: not see the good intention such a message would have been sent with. I'm just getting mixed emotions with this

[Roler]

Roler, my experience with people with at least BPD traits have mostly left me utterly confused. To be able to deal with this hurt and confusion I painstakingly looked for an explanation. So from the start of the devaluation phase I tried to cancel my own perspective and put myself in their place. I also tried to obtain an outsider's view.

It didn't provide me with answers, but I walked on egg-shells just do try and improve things. But both endings unfortunately remained unexplainable from whatever perspective I tried to obtain.

In your case (and every case on these boards) I take that same approach. So just like Skip said I am looking from another perspective. At the start of your thread multiple members, including me, provided a somewhat different perspective and tried to help and get you through this by applying the insight and knowledge our perspectives provided. Of course it would always be your own decision, but you did choose a different path than was advised. That wouldn't have been my choice, but I wouldn't judge you over it.

Well, you kind of did there . But that is ok with me, I'm not made of sugar and after all I was after thoughts and you had a strong one regarding my action in the situation. I respect that and appreciate the view.


However, in your posts before my final reply you described her reaction to your e-mail in quite an unfair way imho.
I felt and feel like you completely lost perspective and are just stuck reasoning from your own state of mind. I did not and still do not think that your approach will help you in any way, but it has hurt her (and probably your family eventually) more than it did any real good... .

I still have trouble seeing your perspective of what it was that I did with my message, that hurt HER. I would like to understand. You haven’t explained why you see it as me hurting her. I can see you apply a broader view, something I tried as well, but I can not see how me pointing out to her that she crossed a line, is hurting her other than how she would perceive it in the light of being caught out on something she should have seriously thought about not doing beforehand. Again, I’m trying to see that angle and I’m trying to move careful here, because obviously there is something I don’t see?

Of course she shouldn't have accessed your record. But was or is it worth all this?

Sometimes I’m wondering if she thinks the same about this

To end with the start of my post: when I read your thread I didn't and don't see the typical unexplainable behaviours. Even the access of your records could just be a simple mistake caused by the emotions surrounding any break up. She didn't do anything with this information to hurt you. There was no smear campaign started with the info she retrieved.
But especially her reaction to your mail is really understandable imo.

There may not be the typical behaviours from what I share here. It is difficult to bring across the dynamics of the past 2 years. Of course some things can be seen in the light of any ‘normal’ breakup and I am the first to  try and put things in perspective with it, especially now that we have been apart for quite some time and things seem to calm down a bit, maybe due to the uncertainty of what will happen.

But again, I cant seem to find your angle. I understand her reaction too, EdR, but I guess from another point of view, another reason behind it and being on the receiving end of her reaction. I have done nothing invading or breaching imo. You might have been thrown off due to the words she chose in her reply and I have explained that those words were nothing ‘new’ for us. Would it be still ‘hurt’ in your opinion, if she would have said: Sorry, I understand I shouldn’t have done so and appreciate you not taking it further? That was a reaction I would have maybe hoped for, but it wasn’t and I’ll have to take it as such. I don’t feel grudge, anger or an urge to retaliate. Nor the urge to hurt her and can’t imagine I would.  I have taken it for what it was and try to let it be her reaction. At times I struggle with it, but I’m happy I haven’t replied again so far.



Of course it would be easy to go with the flow and validate you. To blame your pwBPD. But I just think that would be unfair to her and on top of that I don't see that helping you one bit.

I appreciate you not going with the flow per se. I’m not here for being seen good or bad or get support in blaming anyone. I’m after input and thoughts for my situation and I don’t ‘blame’ the BPD, or the traits she might have or not. They might aid me in understanding the way she can respond or react, sometimes so different from what I would expect or could understand. We are all adults in this, and own the responsibility to keep boundaries.  For me in this case, to protect what is essential and that was my medical privacy.  I would have done so with any other person doing the same, friend, colleague or relative.

Just letting that go, interfering with professional work ethics and relations, is the same as having someone cross a red light going 100 mph in a 50 zone  but just let it go since there was no car crash involved as a result, because no one got killed? Is that a reason just to tolerate it and let it go, unaddressed? What message does that send?
I am not the Knight of Good in my personal life, I am the first to call myself out on it. I am full of shame, guilt and self reflection is continuous, but I’m trying to improve my own flaws and shortcomings. I try to detach and in doing so, try to set boundaries for my own healing. You can say the professional breach is not personal, but it interferes with that a great deal. I’ve never been in such a situation and I learn along the way, by mistake and by experience. I’m not the person to be involved in powerplays over others, nor deliberately damaging or hurting others or their recovery. That isn’t a game I play. However, on a professional level, I take a breach such as happened extremely serious and always will. Not sending that message regarding the boundaries in this,  is inviting to manoeuvre on a sliding slope and thin ice. As was mentioned, what else could have been happening or already happened. What trust is there in my colleague if they would be able to do so?

For now,  if it is possible I would want to try and restore a work relation with her, on a professional level, based on professional trust.  Because we will have to in some way. I am aware that, in my situation, there is a very thin line between private and professional side of things, but the line is there nonetheless. As such I think I’m not wrong in expecting (or at least hoping) us to be on the same page, with clarity. Regarding any private issues, having had a r/s on a private level makes things complicated for us, but if we both want to move ahead in such a way, I think we could. I hope at least.

Roler

[Cromwell]

Regardless of BPD, you will intuitively know her better than anyone else here Roler, our advice has been the same as if you were to ask a lawyer on advice on real estate purchase, they will give you it erring on the side of caution - we all have our own personalities and mine is cautious and careful, I wouldnt stick around for 18 months waiting for her to have the chance to retaliate, id either have tried to ignore the breach, or if there was enough evidence I knew that I could have her dismissed id go the full way, but no half measures here. Im just concerned you have to put up with her for 18 months after showing her some steel, everything you say is rational, ethical and professional but like with most humans we are dealing with emotions - in terms of your ex, extremely labile unpredictable ones.

I called my ex out on some of her stalking, it did not stop her doing more (I thought it would), this is due to impulsivity, they do things at the time then can regret it soon after - yet it doesnt omit the fact that the damage gets done. She will not like to be revealed in her profession as guilty of misconduct and the shame that goes with it - contingency manage for an array of likely retaliation - a smear campaign, false allegations against you. If it doesnt happen, great, expect it to and prepare and guard against it is my advice. If I was in your position I would take any emotional feelings and temporary shelve them as secondary concerns to deal with - this is not scaremongering, but I really couldnt imagine working 18 months with my ex after showing her up, even if it is at the moment just to herself, and not expecting a knife in the back to come at some stage.

doing the "right" thing doesnt work with irrational people, there is not such a thing as getting her to see sense. Its not like she didnt know she did wrong in the first place, she did, but she went ahead regardless. She will even have her own self justification for doing it. ie, it wont be her fault, she was entitled to, etc.

[spacecadet]

I may have misunderstood your goal here. My assumption was that you were concerned that her accessing your medical records could lead to her somehow using the info to hurt you. And therefore, my assumption was that your goal was to make it less likely and/or impossible for her to use the info to hurt you, i.e. by calling her out and saying, "you've crossed a line but haven't harmed me. However, if you harm me with the info I'll have you dismissed. If you don't harm me, the matter will be dropped."

However from your posts this does not appear to be your goal. So instead of assuming I'll ask... .what WAS your goal in sending the note?

I'm wondering if you went through the "what if's" in your mind prior to writing and sending it? What did you expect to accomplish with the note and esp. saying you won't report it "for now"?

[Skip]

Roler, I certainly can't answer for EdR, but I think it would be helpful to look at this from 35,000 ft. This will probably be a little painful, perspective sometimes is, but please accept that I only seek to help.

The principle victims here are your wife and your family. The best thing for them would be for you to let go of any residual drama from the affair and focus on them. The damage from the breach with regards to your medical records pales in comparison to the damages of the affair. Yes, in principle, it was very wrong, but the tangible damage to you is zero. I suspect, had it been another co-worker on the floor, your first step probably would have been to ask at an opportune time, what happened in a non-confrontational way. "Hey Taylor, I happened to notice that you accessed my medical file recently... .curious what happened there"

Your ex is also a victim here at some level. Breaking off a two year relationship right before she departed on a 10 week vacation might have been a good idea for you, it probably wasn't for her. It's hard to imagine she didn't feel ambushed. Hard to imagine she didn't cry on her vacation about this. This might have something to do with her reaction, 5 weeks in, when you stirred up more emotion when emailed her a "caught you" on the medical record thing. She has no idea what is unfolding back at work.

Going at this thing full on is consuming a lot of emotion and keeping your connected, may force a employer change or relocation, may complicate the work environment, might incite retaliation... .
I'm not defending or minimizing the breach, or judging you, just suggesting that you look at this whole thing in context.

I understand that you feel violated. She probably feels violated. Break-ups typically include unresolved feelings of violations. You are trying to find avenge these feelings and this relationship is ending with trauma. It might be more practical to let go and try to prioritize peace so that you can function in the same work environment.

What would be the best thing for your family (real question)?  What would be the best thing for that patients and the other employees (real question)? Should that be the best thing for you?

My suggestion is to write her a very brief note (maybe tuns some drafts here) to set the tempo for when she comes back. You can mail it to her so she sees it when she returns home.

Any thoughts on this?

[Roler]

I may have misunderstood your goal here. My assumption was that you were concerned that her accessing your medical records could lead to her somehow using the info to hurt you. And therefore, my assumption was that your goal was to make it less likely and/or impossible for her to use the info to hurt you, i.e. by calling her out and saying, "you've crossed a line but haven't harmed me. However, if you harm me with the info I'll have you dismissed. If you don't harm me, the matter will be dropped."

However from your posts this does not appear to be your goal. So instead of assuming I'll ask... .what WAS your goal in sending the note?

I'm wondering if you went through the "what if's" in your mind prior to writing and sending it? What did you expect to accomplish with the note and esp. saying you won't report it "for now"?

I think your assumption was correct. The reasons for sending the message was also not just one. Ill try to explain.

When I became aware of access to my record, my initial thought was indeed of what she would do or be able to do with the information. It not only had my medical info, but also the details of next of kins, addresses involved, etc. Given some actions from her in previous relations, I found it very difficult to predict what she would do with it. The then following realisation was, that by doing so, things had now crossed from private issue into private issues taken into the professional realm. Which meant that, even if we would be able to leave the private issues to the past, she as a colleague would be someone I could not trust in keeping those things seperate, both with my info and well as that she had decided to breach a professional conduct and that made me weary about what else could be done in the times to come.

With the message I wanted to warn her. Both in regards to the fact she had breached MY privacy as well as from a professional point of view, had done something that she could jeopardise her medical career. It was really both. My initial message drafts were very direct, very "telling you off" and became very long, which I realised weren't going to work well with her (long messages). I was afraid she would just loose the intent of the message (which after all she now seems to have done to my regret). So I decided to make a quite short message, but  strong one nonetheless. I didnt want to downplay what it meant for me, to have the privacy breached. I have gone over many many what if's and why's, and in good times I could see she probably didnt have ill will. I could be angry at her for doing something so " stupid" and not thinking about what consequences it could have for her, if it had been with someone that would just see it as the breach it was and take it up with management. I am sure that would have ended different. At bad times I thought you breached this in a time that we were already parting from each other, you had no reason whatsoever to access my records and now I'm just surrendered to what you will do with it.
My words chosen in the message to her eventually, I read as non-emotional, but very clear. I have given the " for now" words consideration, and decided to put those in. The intention was not as a thread, but to shorten exactly what you stated: to make clear that if there was anything to be done to harm me or use against me goinf forward with the information she had accessed, I would take it further.

What I have seen is, that one could read it as one feels or wants to; but the message is the same. The fact that she responds with anger and anxiety, I have considered, as well as I considered she could have responded in an appreciative way. Maybe that was wishing against better knowing, or better said, better hoping. My message on itself was giving her a way out, and so it felt to me. My initial message drafts were a lot more anxiety-electing than the one I send to be honest, so I feel I have watered it down already a lot. She is not a toddler, but an adult that can be held accountable for her actions. The fact I didnt take it further, she could also appreciate and we move both ahead.

I even considered just a message saying  something like: " Ive become aware you accessed my medical records" and just leave it with that, to see what response would be coming. But it also opened the dialogue again between us, and I wasnt sure if I wanted that. But I wanted to let her know I knew and didnt see myself walking around with it for several more weeks and then "boil over" by the time she would return again to work.

I think pretty much enough seems to have been said about the message now, it was sent and there was a reply. In hindsight things can always be said differently but I also know I gave it plenty of thoughts beforehand. I regret her response or the sole thing she might have taken out of it. But now its up to me what to do with it.

[Roler]

Skip, thank you for your reply as well, of  course I have thoughts on your insights

Roler, I certainly can't answer for EdR, but I think it would be helpful to look at this from 35,000 ft. This will probably be a little painful, perspective sometimes is, but please accept that I only seek to help.

The principle victims here are your wife and your family. The best thing for them would be for you to let go of any residual drama from the affair and focus on them. The damage from the breach with regards to your medical records pales in comparison to the damages of the affair. Yes, in principle, it was very wrong, but the tangible damage to you is zero. I suspect, had it been another co-worker on the floor, your first step probably would have been to ask at an opportune time, what happened in a non-confrontational way. "Hey Taylor, I happened to notice that you accessed my medical file recently... .curious what happened there"

Yes, the focus would be away from the affaire and focus on our future together. and you are correct that with another co-worker is would have be done the same, although not sure if I'd use the same wording. But of course, the private or r/s dynamics would not have been in play, which I tried to keep out of thework relation as much as possible. Loving and caring for her made it so much more difficult to try and detach with it  and then find myself 'intruded' on a personal level.

Your ex is also a victim here at some level. Breaking off a two year relationship right before she departed on a 10 week vacation might have been a good idea for you, it probably wasn't for her. It's hard to imagine she didn't feel ambushed. Hard to imagine she didn't cry on her vacation about this. This might have something to do with her reaction, 5 weeks in, when you stirred up more emotion when emailed her a "caught you" on the medical record thing. She has no idea what is unfolding back at work.

iI agree. I have had many doubts along the way after her leaving and what to do with the situation upon her return. The breaking things off started already in the weeks before. It wasnt all luby dub at the time, in fact we seemed to have both shared the idea of using those weeks apart to both work on going our own ways.  But I understand my break off in writing, which I used words for that were gentle and supportive, and loving in a way, will likely always have that effect of " now its final". She didnt just disappear, nor did I. I have had a lot of tears for doing it and so did she. I had a lot of tears while she was gone and am now starting to do better with time. I think she will have been doing the same, but really, what can one predict. Stiring up the emotions would also have happened if I hadnt said anything and would have brought it up on her return, because I would have just not been able to work together otherwise. Now at least we both seemed to have time to think about this and go from there. 

Going at this thing full on is consuming a lot of emotion and keeping your connected, may force a employer change or relocation, may complicate the work environment, might incite retaliation... .
I'm not defending or minimizing the breach, or judging you, just suggesting that you look at this whole thing in context.

I understand that you feel violated. She probably feels violated. Break-ups typically include unresolved feelings of violations. You are trying to find avenge these feelings and this relationship is ending with trauma. It might be more practical to let go and try to prioritize peace so that you can function in the same work environment.
Again I agree (although not aware of avenging) The trauma has already happened over the past months, maybe even year, the degrees of seperation that occured fluctuated already greatly. The fact of being in an affair hardly ever has the prospect of ending happily for any party and we both came to see this along the way (with and without acceptance and insight on both sides).  To prioritize peace seems the best achievable situation in this now. So how to achieve... .See my reply at the end

What would be the best thing for your family (real question)?  What would be the best thing for that patients and the other employees (real question)? Should that be the best thing for you?

The best thing for my family would be to have me focus on them. I try to refocus and feel with the NC and distance from my ex, I can slowly improve with this. Ex is on my mind daily, and will be so for a long time to come. Detaching, healing and trying to refocus all take turns.

Best thing for patients and employees would be not being able to notice anything strenuous in our interaction. We have always been observed by co-workers in the light of the affair, so that is something we'd always be aware of and not interfered with our professional conduct as such. Patients certainly would have not have seen anything 'bad' in the way we worked together where we had to.  I guess this will not change dramatically, maybe we'd be a bit more distant in our interaction, but patient care will never be compromised, we seem to be on the same page with that

My suggestion is to write her a very brief note (maybe tuns some drafts here) to set the tempo for when she comes back. You can mail it to her so she sees it when she returns home.

This is were my thought go about most at the moment. Like I mentioned in the reply toe spacecadet's post:
For the sake of promoting peace, sending a message to alleviate any extra stress or anxiety on her part could be a way to try and achieve that before she will return to work.
The doubts I have, as stated, are that it would see me  breaking the NC and request to not contact her (given the past use of these words by both of use, the intensity of those words could be seen both exactly as they are meant as well as the opposite, the indirect desire to be contacted again, there are so many ways to read those words given the dynamics she and I had in the past, that I'm just careful to see it one way or the the other)
It would again be able to be taken by her as me "bringing it up AGAIN", ripping things open AGAIN and not seen as how it was meant: to try and alleviate her anxiety of not knowing what will happen upon return.
But if she'd take it the way it would be meant, it would have the effect of pursuing peace we both (I hope both)  want, yes. It might be the only way to achieve that for now. The alternative is wait and see how things will be. Ackward and filled with uncertainty?

I think it is and remains unpredictable and usually I would say " there is only one way to find out". Just not sure (understatement) regarding what is the wisest thing to do with this now going forward. Her response was not bringing me to think that Im convinced that trying to achieve something I might see, will actually be seen the same way by her... .

I'm a bit stuck with that now and what is to be done next.