Trying to set boundaries: did I do the right thing?

[Bright_80]

Just need some advice. BPDh and I are going out of town for several days. He is a smoker and I am not. Throughout the first 9 years of our marriage he has smoked outside, because he knows I don't like it. However, for the past year, he has started smoking in the house against my wishes. It is only in 1 room and by a window with a fan.

Anyway, we are going out of town and he said he would book the hotel, which I appreciated. When I got home this evening, he happened to mention it was a smoking room. Instead of keeping my mouth shut, like I normally would, I told him I didn't know if I could handle being in a smoking room for 3 or 4 days. He proceeds to get mad, book a room in another hotel, throw his phone on the floor, tell me I'll have to drive to the hotel because he doesn't know where it is, complains about how the stress for the trip has now started, and then retreat to the basement.

I think I heard him saying he spent a lot of time searching for a hotel today and maybe he feels like I don't respect that. I'm not sure.

Now I'm afraid he's going to hold it against me the whole trip: he'll have to go outside to smoke, it won't be on the right part of town, etc, etc, etc. And it will be my fault. Argh... .

I can't stand smoking and so I expressed my need, like setting a boundary: no smoking rooms. Should I have handled it differently? I could have told him earlier not to book a smoking room but I thought me mentioning it might make him mad, so I'd hoped he would just respect me by not booking one. As he was walking away, I asked him if we could talk about it but he said "no".

Did I do the right thing? I really want to learn boundaries and express my needs.

Thanks!

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[Notgoneyet]

 Bright 80,
 Good for you for making your wishes known and letting h now before it was too late.
  It sounds obvious from what you stated that he certainly wasn't thinking of you & your needs of a room you can sleep/rest comfortably in.
  I wouldn't have done it any different but learning from the way he reacted this time would probably give him your wishes before hand next time.
  I'm struggling with setting boundaries for myself right now with my uBPDw after being a doormat for too many yrs.                       
   Have you read any good books on the subject ? 
 
    Keep up the good work , NGY

[Bright_80]

              I wouldn't have done it any different but learning from the way he reacted this time would probably give him your wishes before hand next time.

   Have you read any good books on the subject ?  
  
    Keep up the good work , NGY

Thanks for the encouragement! You're right, next time I'll try to let him no my wants ahead of time.

I'm currently reading Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend, well listening to the audio book in the car, anyway. That's what gave me the desire to make my needs known. I've only listened to a couple chapters, but it's great so far! It's amazing to think it's okay for me to have my own wants and to let people know it! It's only taken me nearly 40 years to figure that out. Now, I hope I don't forget... .

I'm also reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline by Fjelstad. It's pretty eye opening.

Is there anything helping you set boundaries?

[braveSun]

  When I got home this evening, he happened to mention it was a smoking room. Instead of keeping my mouth shut, like I normally would, I told him I didn't know if I could handle being in a smoking room for 3 or 4 days. He proceeds to get mad, book a room in another hotel, throw his phone on the floor, tell me I'll have to drive to the hotel because he doesn't know where it is, complains about how the stress for the trip has now started, and then retreat to the basement.

I think you have gotten into some sort of extinction burst with your husband, where when you start bringing it up, he'll be upset and he'll try harder to test this more. Nobody likes to be pushed into changes, so if we think about it, it is sort of to be expected that there could be some reactions. Like it could get worst before it gets better.
 

Here is a good link about boundaries on this site:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

And another one to go a bit deeper into application:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

Essentially, what is important to understand is that boundaries are about you, not about your partner. Therefore it is best to apply them in a way where you have the control over the outcome, not him.

Say, for example, I had my partner smoke right in front of me. I didn't like the secondary smoke effect on me, nor the smell, etc. So I decided to first bring it up in a calm(er) moment, outside of the situations themselves. I told her that I can't be around the smoke, so if she chose to smoke in my presence next time, I will have to step away until that is over.

She didn't like that. And interestingly, for a long time decided to respect that. Until she started to smoke anyway in some outside areas where I needed to walk back and forth throughout the day. I had to reinforce that again. So she did have a fit than.

Regarding her rages, I have walked away many times (another example). And I had to learn to check on my own anger or sadness all the time while doing this, because the idea is to NOT use a boundary to punish or control your loved one. It is strictly intended to draw a limit to discourage the offending behavior. It takes some practice to get it right.

So yes, if talking calmly about it at a different time is an option, I'd say it's a good start.

The part of expecting your husband to comply, and to wait for that to happen might not work best for you. So if you did book a hotel in the future, maybe you could offer to book yourself, or to do a part of the research in a proactive way. So that in this way the message is you're not continuing to go along with 'either/or' smoking/non-smoking rooms. If he refuses to go ahead for a room that's suitable for you as well, than you could elect to not go.

Now... you might think that's big as a consequence for you. So there, you will need to plan strategically how you will bring in the 'no smoke' boundary into the daily situations you are experiencing, and to assert it consistently across various situations where the smoking is in question, but still not in a controlling way or acting out of anger (of your part).

A good example of a bad way to apply a boundary is to walk away for a week for a small transgression. Or to cancel further plans you had made for later that day. With hurtful behavior, it can get muddy there...

Any thoughts?...

[Bright_80]

Essentially, what is important to understand is that boundaries are about you, not about your partner. Therefore it is best to apply them in a way where you have the control over the outcome, not him.

Say, for example, I had my partner smoke right in front of me. I didn't like the secondary smoke effect on me, nor the smell, etc. So I decided to first bring it up in a calm(er) moment, outside of the situations themselves. I told her that I can't be around the smoke, so if she chose to smoke in my presence next time, I will have to step away until that is over.

She didn't like that. And interestingly, for a long time decided to respect that. Until she started to smoke anyway in some outside areas where I needed to walk back and forth throughout the day. I had to reinforce that again. So she did have a fit than.

Regarding her rages, I have walked away many times (another example). And I had to learn to check on my own anger or sadness all the time while doing this, because the idea is to NOT use a boundary to punish or control your loved one. It is strictly intended to draw a limit to discourage the offending behavior. It takes some practice to get it right.

So yes, if talking calmly about it at a different time is an option, I'd say it's a good start.

The part of expecting your husband to comply, and to wait for that to happen might not work best for you. So if you did book a hotel in the future, maybe you could offer to book yourself, or to do a part of the research in a proactive way. So that in this way the message is you're not continuing to go along with 'either/or' smoking/non-smoking rooms. If he refuses to go ahead for a room that's suitable for you as well, than you could elect to not go.

Now... you might think that's big as a consequence for you. So there, you will need to plan strategically how you will bring in the 'no smoke' boundary into the daily situations you are experiencing, and to assert it consistently across various situations where the smoking is in question, but still not in a controlling way or acting out of anger (of your part).

A good example of a bad way to apply a boundary is to walk away for a week for a small transgression. Or to cancel further plans you had made for later that day. With hurtful behavior, it can get muddy there...

Any thoughts?...

So maybe I should have been thinking about this situation as using a DEARMAN to let my needs known. And, I should have done so before he booked the room because it seemed more like I was being unappreciative (punishment) to bring it up afterward.

Then in my daily life using a boundary, such as leaving the room if I don't want to be around it, when he smokes in the house. Btw, I often do this and he takes it as a slight toward him versus me being concerned for my health.

Thanks for the advice!

[braveSun]

So maybe I should have been thinking about this situation as using a DEARMAN to let my needs known. And, I should have done so before he booked the room because it seemed more like I was being unappreciative (punishment) to bring it up afterward.

 
DEARMAN is a good tool to make requests. I'd definitely use it.

OK, let me try to rephrase this. Life happens. We don't always see it coming. It's when we decide that we want to establish a boundary with someone, we need a strategy in some way.

Something like:

When __________________ does ____________________ next time I will ___________________.

So it's best to start applying boundaries after the consequences are well thought of. Either you talk with your partner and tell him what you intend to do next time, or you keep it to yourself, and execute that plan when comes the time.  The idea of booking the room yourself is just one idea, it doesn't matter what you chose. What matters is you follow through consistently thereafter. This way you don't wait for him to cooperate, you act proactively to get to your intended results.

When you start applying the consequences, that's when the real changes will be set in motion. Your partner most likely will not like the changes you want to bring. Taking it as a slight against himself might very well be his reaction. It's likely that you will need to be persistent and to repeat this a few times. And, if you think you might run into physical violence, or any unsafe situation, it's important to evaluate the risks and costs of the consequences you chose to apply.

Does that make more sense?

[Bright_80]

Does that make more sense?

I get it. In reality the boundary is really about me. It's about the action I'm willing to take to avoid whatever might be on the other side of that boundary. It's about what I'm comfortable with or not.(Ex. "When I receive raging texts, I become anxious. I will not respond to them. But, I will talk to you when we're both calm." OR "Smoking in the house gives me a headache. If it occurs, I will go to the other room." It's about controlling my own actions and feelings, not his. If he doesn't like the consequence, he can change or not change but that doesn't affect where my boundary lies.

[braveSun]

  I get it. In reality the boundary is really about me. ... It's about controlling my own actions and feelings, not his. If he doesn't like the consequence, he can change or not change but that doesn't affect where my boundary lies.

Yes.  And it's not easy. It's usually not working in one shot. It takes time and commitment. In my case I had to start with one behavior and focus on that one for a while, until I saw that after testing the boundary, she accepted it. It's never sure she won't try the behavior again, but she will have an accumulated experience of more peace around the issue. And me too. Overall makes it worthwhile.

I have the smoking in the house problem too. I can totally relate to your situation. It's disrespectful, and sometimes I get the feeling that my spouse is using that as a weapon almost. To get me out of the room.

But I have also learned more about my own anger. I have found that I need to work on not walking out while expressing anger. I used to disappear for a few hours at a time at the beginning...     Now I am more aware of the limitations, I still need to get in the house, cook a meal, etc... Now I am working on modulating my own anger when it comes and to walk out for a pause.  Like many on these boards, and maybe yourself, I use phrases like "We'll talk when there is more calm between us."  Or sometimes I'll just elect to go do some errand, or something else, to break off the steam. 

I have noticed that once I have started to enforce the non-smoking boundary, my spouse eagerly accepted it when I would come in to prepare food, clean the kitchen, or do something nice together. Or when we would be in the car together. She would respect the boundary there too.

[Bright_80]

But I have also learned more about my own anger. I have found that I need to work on not walking out while expressing anger. I used to disappear for a few hours at a time at the beginning...    

I have noticed that once I have started to enforce the non-smoking boundary, my spouse eagerly accepted it when I would come in to prepare food, clean the kitchen, or do something nice together. Or when we would be in the car together. She would respect the boundary there too.

Yes, I try not to exhibit signs of irritation when I leave the room when he lights up. If I cough or he "perceives" me rolling my eyes, he verbalizes frustration. He has begun to realize that I leave the room because of his smoking and he will verbally apologize in the moment but not take any different action.

But, I've not been great at enforcing this boundary because he smokes in the living room where we spend most of our time, so it's inconvenient to leave the room every time. Sometimes I just endure it. I do express my appreciation during the times he does go outside to smoke, hoping this will lead to him doing so more often. He actually acknowledges the appreciation without taking it as a slight for the times he doesn't go outside.

Even though he used to run a tobacco cessation program and speak to kids about the harmful effects of tobacco, he now tells me the secondhand smoke in the house won't negatively affect my health. Go figure. Wish I could tell him about the ways I've actually noticed it is affecting me physically but I don't think it would make a difference, so why go there and get more angry about it myself.

So, boundaries it is! Thanks again for your input!

[braveSun]

He has begun to realize that I leave the room because of his smoking and he will verbally apologize in the moment but not take any different action.

... .But, I've not been great at enforcing this boundary because he smokes in the living room where we spend most of our time, so it's inconvenient to leave the room every time. Sometimes I just endure it. I do express my appreciation during the times he does go outside to smoke, hoping this will lead to him doing so more often. He actually acknowledges the appreciation without taking it as a slight for the times he doesn't go outside.   

I see you there. I'm very similar. I'll be tired and not wanting to start a big to do, so I just try to sit it up a bit here and there. I know it's not 100% consistency. It's good that you express appreciation for the good behavior. The living room is pretty much hard to avoid. Not an easy one. Worth exploring alternatives though.

  Even though he used to run a tobacco cessation program and speak to kids about the harmful effects of tobacco, he now tells me the secondhand smoke in the house won't negatively affect my health. Go figure. Wish I could tell him about the ways I've actually noticed it is affecting me physically but I don't think it would make a difference, so why go there and get more angry about it myself.

So, boundaries it is! Thanks again for your input! 

Wow!... There you have it!... .    When there is an addiction involved, they can come to say the darnest things.

Your intuition is right, I don't think it would help the situation, giving BPD sufferer's experience. If you come in wanting to get some validation of your  experience on the spot, they will most likely feel threatened by that. Thus the difficult reactions sometimes.

You seem to have a very good grasp of boundaries. You're good on your way!...

Thanks for posting, Bright_80! And let us know how it's going!...