Stealing & Lying - Borderline Teen

[loveandcare]

Hi!

There was a really good post I read a while ago on this very topic, but I'm darned if I can find it. Anyway - despite stealing and lying not really being part of the official diagnosis of BPD, certainly in our experience it has very much been so. In fact, it was worse than we ever imagined, and now I wonder just how much we've been ripped off (financially) over the years.

And therein lies our problem - we would love to get out on date nights or maybe even - heaven forbid - a weekend away, but I do not trust my daughter to be left alone in the house for even 10 minutes, let alone an extended period. Taking her with us isn't really an option as she generally will not engage in what we're doing or will complain and grumble and generally ruin it for everyone.

How do you carve out time alone with your spouse if you are in a similar situation?
Thanks!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Merlot]

Hi loveandcare
This is a tricky one. How old is your daughter?
I certainly advocate for you having some mucg needed time away with your spouse. It is healthy and important.

Are there arrangements you could put in place
 Maybe she could stay with someone else, or have someone stay. Are there ways to engage her in yhe vonversation about your concerns when she is calm and put some boundaries in place about you will and wont accept. Maybe even some incentives.

It sounds like something needs to change. For me my DD27 lied to me all the time... .almost a double life.

I hope other members have some good advice here. I would be interested too

Merlot

[loveandcare]

A double life is a good way to put it! Our DD is 18.

One thing that is different with our DD - and possibly another reason she wasn't diagnosed for years, is that she falls into a category of lesser-known BPD, which is the "quiet borderline". Instead of turning everything outwards, it is all turned inwards. She is incredibly, painfully, shy and has no friends. This is, the psych believes, the root cause of her BPD. She was rejected by her peers all through-out school, bullied relentlessly, and never invited into any social groups. Hence, she never developed any decent social skills or a sense of who she was or where she belongs... .one of the main issues with BPD, sadly.

Anyway - she is completely incapable of living independently. We encouraged her to get a job, which she reluctantly did, then completely sabotaged it by starting a 6 week stint of smoking prescription drugs, going missing for weeks at a time, and generally going off the rails. We seem to have gotten that (the drug use) under control, but of course her job has drifted away to nothing and now she is home again doing jack-**** and floating around like a lost soul.

I too hope someone has some advice!

[Merlot]

Hi lovedandcare

BPD seems to manifest itself in many different ways  although whateber the manifestations the  stories here seems to have so much synergy.

Going back to the lies, in one of my more recent conversations with my DD27, she told me that she was no longer in contact with her childhood friends as they were too immature for her. I now hazard a guess that it may have been the other way around or something happened that she is not telling me about. It seems whatever she says is a mask/ facade to elevate her rposition or view of herslef in each and every relationship.

Essentially her self esteem is not good but cant bare to face that.

To the outside world, my DD27 seems, charming, capable and kind hearted. To those closest to her, the daek side is very evident and causes loved ones ro walk on eggshells. She is very beautiful and the epiphony of femininity and sometimes its hard to reconcile after the rages where we have been stripped bare.

She has trouble in her work relaionships too. She cuts and euns when things dont go well leaving a trail of destruction and takes no responsibility.

I hope you are doing ok. One day at a time and iys all about learning and self care. Thankyou for extending your support to others here. It really does help to have a place to talk.

Please keep us updated as we are all here for you.

Merlor

[loveandcare]

Hello again -

Well, she walked out tonight, after we gave her a choice of help or drugs. She chose drugs. I feel guilty in a way because her leaving has relieved so much pressure and tension. Everything is calm here now. That is so sad to acknowledge... .but true.

Her days were spent lying in bed until later afternoon. If and when she bothered to get up, she'd just spend her time staring into her phone. An outsider would say that was on us - "get her up then!"... .OK, so now what... .? She's up, and just sitting moping on the couch. She still won't do anything other than stare into a screen. She won't eat well, no exercise, no goals, no motivation, no nothing.

I am absolutely against drug use, but I can see the lure - she feels so empty and has no sense of who she is, the drugs at least allow her to feel good for a while. UGH. So sad.

[wendydarling]

Hi loveandcare  

I feel your sadness and the deep empathy, understanding you have for your young daughter, insidious this disorder is. You are living your values, no drugs, one of the most important things to address, what helped me is to have a very simple plan of priorities for my situation. Your daughter knows you are there rooting for her, though it may not feel like that right now to you.

Her days were spent lying in bed until later afternoon. If and when she bothered to get up, she'd just spend her time staring into her phone. An outsider would say that was on us - "get her up then!"... .OK, so now what... .? She's up, and just sitting moping on the couch. She still won't do anything other than stare into a screen. She won't eat well, no exercise, no goals, no motivation, no nothing.

I have a HUGE confession loveandcare I've never spoken of here, I let my DD stay in bed, I've never asked her to get up over these last 3 years, and more no asks, … she's ended very gradually getting herself up and more, when she felt able. Now she's up at 6-9am, she did this not me. It was a fight not worth for us, in fact I think pushing it may have invalidated the seriousness of her condition, do we ask a fellow human being with a broken spine to get up? It's a call I made, I kept to my simple plan of priorities, that was changing my behaviour and so reducing conflict for her.

We start somewhere, continue enforcing your boundaries, living your personal values AND going with your gut feeling loveandcare. If you need to change your approach do.

You know your daughter the most and she knows that, whatever, you are keeping the door open, fire at home burning bright.  

Do you know where she is, who she is with?

WDx

[wendydarling]

Back again loveandcare for more  

It's been a very, very long journey for you, your latest healthcare provider to arrive at BPD diagnosis, finally at 18 after banging the drum for like a decade! Breathe.

Are you happy with your DD's most recent health advisors, do they provide you confidence? And have you engaged a BPD specialist for you and your husband to help guide you forward?

So glad you are here talking with us parents.  

I'm sure you have come across Blaise, my DD and I are Blaise Aguirre followers, for us he's opened up the world of BPD, to make the path to coping, recovery accessible in the most gentle and loving way. We all need an entry, our search.

WDx

[loveandcare]

wendydarling - thank you for your gracious, loving words. I needed to hear them today especially; I just received a text from my oldest DD20 telling me DD18 is "walking the streets". She's essentially homeless. Refuses to come back because the condition of living here is that she receives the Vivitrol shot (it's a shot that prevents the high from opiate drugs). I can be patient and tolerate a lot, but I will not allow drugs in my home - not only do I not want anything to do with that lifestyle, the awful behavior drug use then causes is just beyond what I can bare. Lies, manipulation, stealing, cheating, sneaking out.

Have you ever seen those game shows where they blast air in a tube a person is standing in, and all this money is getting blown around while they grab as much as they can? That was how it felt to me living with her on drugs. Absolute craziness from one minute to the next.

You asked about providers. Well, prior to 18 I thought her providers were, on the whole, a complete waste of time. Nobody "got it". They kept trying all these therapies, and of course we were obligated to at least try, but absolutely nothing worked. There was quite literally no change in 4-5 years of different services, other than the change you would expect with maturing from 13-18 (which wasn't much because she's so emotionally stunted, but it was a bit) and a few different meds/changes due to physical issues. But the therapy and services did nothing whatsoever. I kept pointing this out, but it fell on deaf ears. Nobody wanted to hear me... .they had a formula of how to handle kids and that was it - they weren't willing to deviate. Plus, yes - nobody will DX under 18, even though I suggested BPD many times (it was always rebuffed).

For at least 5-6 years, she has verbalized that she has "no feelings, no emotions". She feels completely empty and flat. She has no idea of who she is, what she wants, or where she is going in life. Hence, there is no motivation because she doesn't feel the rewards (emotionally) of hard work and goals. To me, she has been quite literally just existing for about the last 6-7 years. It is heart-breaking.

Despite the fact that I hate the idea of drugs, I can actually see why someone who doesn't feel anything other than depression/anxiety and/or emptiness would choose to go that route. For the first time in many years she felt joy/happiness. Sadly, as we all know, that euphoria is  short-lived and the downwards spiral of drug-use is a dreadful one.

No, I have no idea where she is other than I believe she is walking the streets of a nearby city. It makes me sick to my stomach, but I cannot do anything. I've tried the police, but as she's over 18 there is nothing that can be done; she is free to choose this life.

[loveandcare]

I have never heard of Blaise Aguirre - I'm going to research him right now! Thank you!

[wendydarling]

It's no wonder you feel sick to your stomach with worry about your girl, you've done everything you can in this present situation, my thoughts are with you   Yes, I do know of those games shows you mention, I would not be able to bare the addictive behaviours you describe either loveandcare and like you not prepared to tolerate in my home. Reinforce our children's positive behaviours always ... .

For at least 5-6 years, she has verbalized that she has "no feelings, no emotions". She feels completely empty and flat. She has no idea of who she is, what she wants, or where she is going in life. Hence, there is no motivation because she doesn't feel the rewards (emotionally) of hard work and goals. To me, she has been quite literally just existing for about the last 6-7 years. It is heart-breaking.

.

What have the professionals said when your daughter has said how she feels?  Trying to gain a sense of the support she’s had so far.
I remember you talking in another thread, your triangle, addiction, depression, BPD.  Same as DD, though her addiction was alcohol, no drugs.
 
The head of the mental health team who diagnosed my DD recommended she read Blaise’s book, she did in one session over an evening to morning, she could not put it down. I remember to this day her coming down in morning and sitting on the lounge floor and talking, sharing she found what she was looking for, he gave her hope.  Right place, right time? Likely. My daughter felt alone and what her dx and DBT brought her was a community of acceptance and strength, validation outside the support of family and her friends. My DD really need this and so did I, to know she has support like we do here. We go on to give back.

Posted recently to the video library by JNChell  Having a life worth living

The book my DD read Mindfulness for Borderline Personality Disorder; relieving your suffering using the core skill of DBT

DBT does not work for everyone at point of access for them, my DD was not ready for DBT at 18. I’m obviously now sold on it, the saying in our house is fill the hole with DBT and she has … with mix of addiction therapy, getting depressions meds right, mood disorder pyschosis ……

You are a patient and tolerant person loveandcare and that saw me through, knowing I’m always doing my best, like you and our parents here. As parents we never give up on our children, whatever.

Has your daughter left home before?  

WDx

[loveandcare]

Sadly, yes - this is a cycle we are currently in. After 3 nights she came back, nowhere to go. I have no idea where she's been... .I dread to think. Anyway - our rules for her coming back here are she has to start on the pills (pill equivalent of the shot), and if that doesn't work, then it's the shot. If she refuses the shot then she will have to move out. So, so, sad.

Of course she was using drugs while she was gone, so now she's not feeling great. Today we were all supposed to be leaving to visit a family member. She had ample warning to get ready, but wouldn't get up. Finally dragged herself up and of course when we had to leave, she was still sitting half naked getting ready. Typical passive-aggressive controlling behavior.

Dad had to leave, which means I will have to follow on in the second car. As I'm walking up the stairs to tell her, she's coming down with only a small top on, carrying clothes, claiming to be ready. Ummm - you're half naked... .! I told her Dad had had to leave and we would follow on, but because she caused the delay she had to pay the gas. She was livid. Started throwing stuff on her bed. Then claimed she wouldn't be late if people would "stop moving my clothes around"... .which nobody has, they are exactly where she last dumped them.

It's so hard to live like this. I am such a calm happy person normally, but this last 5-6 years has been torture. I hate it, but I see no way out. I mean - what can we do? Other than toss her out onto the streets?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

I'm relieved to hear she's safe loveandcare, she's left before and comes back, as you say recycles and knows the rules, her choice to start back on the pills... .injections and keep it going.

Returning to your original question here, how do you get out on a date night, or weekend away? Do you have a family member, family friend who could take her to the movies, a 'doing activity', someone who understands, help her feel less alone? Who do you and your husband have? One thing I have learnt is people care and do want to help, if given the opportunity and some support will walk in our shoes. And that's had the most profound affect on our lives and wellbeing. 5-6 years is torture and you want you and your husband to keep your life real for you and experience and feel happiness and your calm you deserve.   Now how can you make that happen? I know it was very important my DD saw me take care of me and that I was happy and coping despite her behaving a tad otherwise   it kind of took the pressure off her and she was not under the microscope, and gave her confidence she really needed right then, change the dynamics, not sure it that is helpful to your situation.

I'm not familiar with pills, shots for drug addiction, when, what's the expected outcome? Is anything else in your DD's treatment plan?

Hang in there, we are here for you. 

WDx

[loveandcare]

Hi Again -

Well, so far so good. She is taking the pills. I don't know if these are available in the UK (I'm in the USA). They are opioid blockers. They basically block the opioid receptor, so if a person uses they won't be able to get high. However, they will still have the physiological effects, so technically it is possible to OD even on the pills. The shot is the same thing, only it is slow release and lasts for a month. We'd prefer that, of course.

We don't have any family here, unfortunately, and I haven't spoken about this with any friends. I'm too scared of being judged and stigmatized. However, her older sis helps and will watch her.

My concern is long-term, for example getting a job. She is unemployable right now. Do we just accept that? I was even wondering about applying for disability for her.

[wendydarling]

Hiya  

Thanks for explaining they are opioid blockers, it helps so many reading and further researching.

Still so far so good, your DD is taking the pills? I understand your preference, a month shot gives you surety. It's her choice, which.

I understand you are too scared of being judged and stigmatized by friends if you reach out for help and understanding. It's a real concern for many parents here, and spoken of often. At a guess do you know who'll reach out to you and your daughter in a loving supportive way, and who will judge you, be fearful? I've learnt people do care and want to support and as the journey progresses, more come on board. I've taken the fear out of my DD's disorder for many around me and replaced it with loveandcare  

Its good you are looking forward and I share with others your long term concerns of short-long term employment v applying for disability. My DD is presently on disability, it's very small amount as she lives at home, that said it allow her to pay, be responsible for her phone, cat, medicines, some food... , she's contributing.

What I am learning is my DD30 will need is ongoing support from our local mental health services that she is now fortunately and finally rooted in and emotional support from her friends.

This is a good conversation loveandcare, thanks for raising. x

You've spoken of your triangle, addiction, depression, BPD. You are back on the addiction path again, what's happening with depression, this was key for my DD too.

WDx