After a lull, very near to breaking point PART 2

[Dragon72]

This morning just after breakfast my wife suddenly announced she was taking our son out to go to a church thing the other side of town. "OK, enjoy!" I said.  I'm not religious and I thought I'd stay home and enjoy the time to read, relax, go for a run, cook a nice lunch for us. She knows not to expect me to join her for churchy stuff.

I cooked a really fine lunch and, as they weren't back till late, I set some aside for them.  I got a message saying they were on their way back at about 4.30pm.  At about the time when I expected them home, I went outside to the wall of our condominium that looks over the street to see if their bus was passing.  I spent a few minutes watching the traffic and then went back inside the house.

When I got inside the house I saw our son.  So I greeted him and called for his mother. "Hi! You back?".
No answer. "Hi! You back?" I repeated.  Still no answer. I called again as I went upstairs. "Helloo," I said
 as I saw her and she just cold shouldered me.  
"Why didn't you answer me?" I asked.
"You were coming out of the house just as I was coming into the condominium and you saw me very clearly and you just went over to the wall.  You saw clearly saw me!" she said bitterly.
"Actually I didn't see you. That's why I went over to the wall. To look for you," I said.
"You clearly saw me and you went over to the wall."
Then silent treatment.

Later in the evening our son asked me to sit with him and watch some funny videos on Youtube. He jumped up onto my lap while we were at the computer.  When my wife saw him, she told him to come over to the sofa and sit with her and watch TV.
"Hey, he just asked me to sit with him and watch videos. He's happy with me," I protested.
She told him again to sit with her on the sofa. Clearly she wasn't happy with him on my lap.

Then at bedtime, junior called to me "story time!" as he always does every night when I read him a bedtime story, and then when I'm finished, she reads him a story.  This time my wife answered him, "Mommy will read you a story tonight, honey."
"Well he just asked me to read him a story," I replied. "First of all," I added, "you take him away this morning with practically no warning so that I don't spent the day with him. Then you say he can't sit with me. And now you're taking away my bedtime story with him."
"I never said you couldn't read him a story," she snipped.
"Well, that was most definitely the impression I got from what you said."
I read him the story.

I'm getting really fed up with her behaviour.  I'm not an enemy, for goodness sakes.

[formflier]

What would happen is you read him a story and then snuggled up and went to sleep with him?  No asking... .no coordination... .just do it?

Hey... .how much is the allowance you give her?  How does that compare to the cost of MC?

How does that compare with the income she is skipping by not renting our her place in the other city?

FF

[Dragon72]

I don't want to sleep with my kid. That's why I don't do that.

Every 2 weeks I get paid, net, 15,000 pesos. I give her 2,000 every payday. A T session costs 1,000.  That house would net in the region of 6,000 pesos per month.

[formflier]

Well... .you've found the money for your MC sessions... right?

FF

[Dragon72]

I didn't mention the other expenses that leave no spare change for anything.

Anyway, something happened this evening that has distracted me from my constant money worries.

My son asked me to help him when he went to the bathroom (#2) and asked me to help him wipe up at the end.

When we came out my wife gave me the nastiest of looks and started to tell my son about the dangers of sex abusers and that nobody should be allowed to put their finger in his bottom.

I asked her if she had something to say to me. She said, "I'm just saying, that's all". 
"Are you saying that you think I'm capable of sexually assaulting my own son?" I asked.
"Just saying".

I left the room.

Minutes later, she brought our son to where I was and asked him leadingly, ":)id he put his finger in you bottom?"
He said yes.
Well, he would say that. I used my hands to hold a wetwipe to wipe his messy butt.
So I asked him a leading question of my own. ":)id I put my finger inside you or just wipe your bottom?"
"You just wiped my bottom, Daddy".

My wife didn't look convinced.
She said that sex abusers get locked up, and left the room.

[Cat Familiar]

Wow! So sorry, Dragon. My guess is that she is a victim of sexual assault. That would explain a lot of things.

[Dragon72]

I think you're right.
Whenever my son sits on my knee, my wife calls him away.  I have a hunch she had to sit on someone's knee when she was a young girl and suffered some sort of abuse.
If that's the case then that's awful and tragic.

Now, I don't know how to react to this current situation. She definitely has it in her head that I am doing terrible things.  How do I maintain a close and affectionate father/son relationship in her presence? How do I live with someone who jumps to the worst possible conclusions about me, not just about this, but in terms of money/fidelity/family loyalty? Who has absolutely no trust or faith in her husband?  I just don't think I can handle that.

Also, if and when it comes down to divorce/separation, it looks like it will get very ugly indeed. 

[Cat Familiar]

And considering your employment, she's putting you into a very vulnerable position.

Defending yourself against false allegations ... .puts you on the defensive, which seems like it's a pattern she is trying to employ throughout many contexts in your relationship.

This is truly awful, Dragon. I'm so sorry.   

[Fian]

You mentioned that you have a fund to cover things in case of divorce.  I think you should meet with a divorce attorney and discuss a strategy on how to protect yourself both from such allegations in a divorce, but also from being falsely accused and going to jail.  If I were you, I would start to journal all of these things.  FF can give you guidance on how best to journal (I assume internet document is better than something that can be destroyed.)

[Dragon72]

I'm just so sick of being portrayed as a bad, dare I say it, evil person.  

This morning she's taken our son.
"Where are you going?"
"To my brother's house" (half a mile away)
"Shall I prepare lunch? Will you be back by then?"
"I don't think so. Give me money for gas."
"Your brother lives half a mile away"
"The car needs gas"
I gave her $20 and off she went.

I'm going to see if out T can give me a solo session today while they're gone.

[Enabler]

Who do we know on the boards who has experience in effectively prepping themselves for false allegations on a UBPD?

Not to freak you out (anymore than you already are) but I think this is very very important to plan for and be proactive with.

[pearlsw]

Hi Dragon72,

I am no expert on this topic, but I am certainly concerned. I think with all you've gone through it may be time now to go ahead and use some of that rainy day fund to talk to a divorce lawyer who can also advise you about how false abuse charges are handled there and can help develop a strategy to protect you.

I am not suggesting divorce, that is your call, (we don't advise folks to stay or leave) but your relationship crisis seems to be escalating and it may not be long before these accusations get spread to larger circles - especially as she further grasps the power/potential of the false accusation. She can do a lot of damage with this I'm sure you can imagine, and best not to be caught unprepared.

As others have said documentation of her mental illness is key. How isolated are you? Is there anyone else who can vouch for your parenting?

wishing you peace, pearl.

[Red5]

... .especially as she further grasps the power/potential of the false accusation. She can do a lot of damage with this I'm sure you can imagine, and best not to be caught unprepared.

This is resonating in my head Dragon, Pearlsw is absolutely correct !

You need to be proactive on this latest dysregulative attack, this is beyond the pale imho, .she seems, your wife, .she seems to be entering into a very dangerous "persona" of behaviors here  .

Hang in there Dragon, Red5

[Enabler]

This doesn’t go away... .at all. My W has stated on her divorce application that I am abusive to our children, her OM has stated in an 8 page letter that i physiologically abused my children, her friends believe I abused the children, her family believe that I have abused the children.

No formal accusation has ever been lodged, social services have never been involved and no evidence has ever been produced other than a photo of my 7yr old daughters bottom with some red finger marks on where I smacked her bottom with a pull-up on because I caught her pouring a jug of water over her bed at 10 o’clock at night. A moment of madness on both our parts. A situation I would deal with differently now.

My point is that mud sticks and you need to front up to it very very quickly for your own protection and actually for the protection of your boy. What’s to say he doesn’t grow up being told he was mollested by you. I regret not getting a professional family assessment done of parenting. Laid myself bare and professionally laid to rest these accusations.

[Dragon72]

The T can't see me until tomorrow lunchtime.  I'm hoping to see her for two reasons, 1. because I need to talk about this and 2. because I want her to tell me whether or not she thinks, professionally, that my wife has significant mental health issues that could help my case.

I'm not quite sure what to say to the lawyer, nor what I can expect him to do.

[Cat Familiar]

You know how members here report that pwBPD are experts at projection... .

I'm thinking that she insists upon sleeping with your son, even when expert opinion advises her that it's important for him to be able to sleep alone and learn to individuate... .

Well, I'm wondering if something inappropriate is going on with her and him and she is projecting that on you. And these crazy allegations she's pulling out of thin air would make more sense.

How long do you suppose she will continue to share the bed with him? I'm forgetting how old he is, but it seems like it's starting to become a very unhealthy pattern.

[Dragon72]

I doubt she is doing anything untoward with him.

He's 4¾, by the way.

I don't think she's projecting. I think she suffered abuse as a child at his age and she's reliving that fear by casting me as the perpetrator and our son as the victim.

Her traumatic memories translated into fear and we all know that, when a pwBPD feels an emotion, those thoughts become their truth.

[Red5]

You know how members here report that pwBPD are experts at projection... .

I'm thinking that she insists upon sleeping with your son, even when expert opinion advises her that it's important for him to be able to sleep alone and learn to individuate... .

Well, I'm wondering if something inappropriate is going on with her and him and she is projecting that on you. And these crazy allegations she's pulling out of thin air would make more sense.

How long do you suppose she will continue to share the bed with him? I'm forgetting how old he is, but it seems like it's starting to become a very unhealthy pattern.

Cat makes a very good point here... .Dragon; I don't exactly recall now, but did you not tell us that your wife may have been an abuse victim... .I am speaking of CSA, or maybe it was later in her life, as a young adult, I don't remember.

These are very serious things to even be discussing, but it does make sense to me as well.

My first wife was a sexual abuse victim, incest is a very evil, and awful thing, but it does happen, and its very complex in its construct, it effects people long into their adult lives, and the severity of the resultant pd will be on a spectrum depending on the severity of the abuse, and also the length of time it occurred.

I think that when you go to your T tomorrow, you need to figure out a way to bring this up, this is my own opinion, based on my own life experiences.

Pretty serious stuff Dragon, .yes it is.

Red5

[Red5]

... .she suffered abuse as a child at his age,

Bingo !

[Cat Familiar]

Her traumatic memories translated into fear and we all know that, when a pwBPD feels an emotion, those thoughts become their truth.

Yes, unfortunately... .

I think it's great that you will soon have an appointment with your T. Certainly she can help give you a road map to strategize with an attorney should these crazy allegations continue.

[Dragon72]

Bingo !

Let me be clear, that she might have been abused as a child is pure conjecture on my part. I have not heard any statements to that effect. Nor do I have any evidence.

[Red5]

Let me be clear, that she might have been abused as a child is pure conjecture on my part. I have not heard any statements to that effect. Nor do I have any evidence.

TRIGGER WARNING-

It was years after we were married until my first wife told me about it, .then later I learned it also happened to her sister, .then as more years passed, and the marriage started to stall out... .I learned that her own mother, and several aunts were also victims, and cousins resultant, .absolutely crazy... .it was, .and most times this is, multi generational... .a terrible thing Dragon, .and I was utterly clueless!... .it (childhood sexual abuse) absolutely destroys lives, and relationships, marriages as the person whom suffered, as they get older, do not come to terms with it, bad things may start to happen, acting out, substance abuse, its all about pain... .and inability to process, .my (ex) wife started to come apart at year #10 of 22 years we were married... .and of course the foo NEVER did anything to help, or support, or to initiate any form of healing for any of the women whom suffered, no accountability whatsoever, .even to this day, absolute dysfunction.

Be careful my friend, .and I wish you the best as you navigate through all of this.

All those years ago, as my first marriage began to founder, of course I wanted answers, .I was handed a book by my (ex) wife's T, it was titled The Courage to Heal - written by Ellen Bass... .I remember her telling me, after my (ex) wife got up and left that particular session, ."you are in for a long road, and its going to get much worse before it ever gets any better, if it ever does... .you need to get informed on this [she said to me], you need to read, and understand what has happened to her, and what is now happening to her"... .this was back in the mid 1990's... .before the internet, so I spent a lot of time in libraries... .

I did not prevail, I could not "save" her, she eventually left me to "live her life" she said, she left the kids too, she said, "they are better off with you"... .and then she left,

Yes, hang in there Dragon, and learn all you can.

Red5

[Dragon72]

You asked about the sleeping arrangements.

She has slept in his bed since he was born.  In spite of recommendations from different child health professionals, she has stayed sleeping with him.

Her excuse is that the noise from the street in the marital bedroom is too much for her to sleep and so until we move house, she will carry on sleeping in his room.

[Dragon72]

As to whether there are witnesses to my good parenting, the people who have seen me parenting most are my wife's family. And they're probably going to side with her rather than me.
Here in Mexico blood is most certainly thicker than water.

[pearlsw]

As to whether there are witnesses to my good parenting, the people who have seen me parenting most are my wife's family. And they're probably going to side with her rather than me.
Here in Mexico blood is most certainly thicker than water.

Hi Dragon72,

This is why you need to get out ahead of this. These aren't just words. We all hear a lot of insults, threats, etc, but these are across the line ones. They are not to be taken lightly. Others will hear these things and you could end up not even being able to be around your own child if it gets far enough.

Since you only suspect abuse have you ever just asked her if she was abused and if this is why this worries her so? Perhaps, before this gets any more out of hand, doing some validation that anyone who was abused would be more worried than most could make her feel listened to.

sincerely, pearl.

[Dragon72]

I just got a call from her saying they're spending the night at her brother's house. 
I'm going to the marriage therapist in the morning.

[Radcliff]

Let's pause for a minute.  :)ragon72 is vulnerable, yes.  But at this point, we are not looking at an abuse claim to outsiders.  :)ragon72 wants to solve this problem as far upstream as possible.  

Assume she was sexually abused as a child.  No need to go digging for it or to confirm it.  With the presence of BPD and her recent behavior, it seems likely enough to use the assumption to help inform your approach.  I would not discuss it with her, because... .

You want to de-emphasize sexual abuse.  We are talking about one unsettling interaction.  Call it a shot across the bow.  Battle has not been joined.  You want the topic to fade quickly from your family's current narrative.  In a situation where you had a lot of support and she was not dangerous to you, you might offer to talk with her about it if she ever wanted to, but you do not have that situation.  She has been traumatized, so respect her heightened sense of fear, within reason.  If she looks uncomfortable with your son in your lap, sit next to him (try to make subtle changes that help her be comfortable, without sacrificing your relationship with your son).  If he has a poopy bottom, ask her for help, or hand him the wipes and let him do it himself (he's old enough to wipe his own bottom, but I understand there is the occasional messy job  )

Another reason to stop talking about sexual abuse is that you want to give no indication at all that this is something you are concerned about.  You don't want to give her a hint that she has power there.  :)o not defend yourself.  I wouldn't normally throw tools at you on the Conflicted board, but on this topic you need to not “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE).  If she raises the topic, say something like you understand that any good parent wants to be careful, and invite her to help you care for him or somehow indicate openness.  You are validating that she has fears without validating that you could be capable of such a thing.  She has heightened fears cemented in her brain about this, and you want her to be comfortable.

So you have two things to be concerned about:
1.  Her heightened fears due to her (assumed) past abuse
  validate her concern for your son's welfare, without validating or defending specifics about you.  Try to set aside your indignation and help her feel safe.

2.  The potential that she might use false allegations as a manipulative weapon in the future.
  don't let on that you are concerned.  Let the topic fade away.  Prepare in the background.

You should read the book, Splitting, by Bill Eddy.  He is a former therapist and current divorce attorney who specializes in high conflict personalities.  That book is about divorcing someone with BPD, and it talks about the importance of finding an assertive attorney and dealing assertively with false allegations.  I would also recommend, Don't Alienate the Kids, which talks about child custody issues, including allegations of sexual abuse.  Neither is specifically about false sexual abuse allegations, but both should be required reading for anyone who may have divorce and custody issues with a pwBPD in the future, and should be read before the stuff hits the fan.

WW

[formflier]

"I don't think so. Give me money for gas."
"Your brother lives half a mile away"
"The car needs gas"
I gave her $20 and off she went.
 

I'm still catching up on your thread... .

Why on earth did you give her $20?

I get it there is habit there... .

She has access to her own source of money, but chooses instead to demand (and get it from you). 

Is this accurate... the way she demanded it?

FF

[Dragon72]

Is this accurate... the way she demanded it?

FF

her very words

[formflier]

her very words

Why on earth... .why would that produce any action on your part to satisfy what she wants?

Is there a way she asks where you don't give her money?


I've just read through the thread and will post on the other topics, which are actually more important... .

I must say I'm totally flumuxed at why you act as an ATM she can disrespect... .not insert a card... not put in the pin (she doesn't use it properly)... .yet the ATM (Dragon) still produces money

So... I hope you can see that from her point of view the ATM works fine... cards and pin codes and the way the rest of the world does this... .not needed.

Please think about this... .please talk to therapist about this.  Only you can answer why YOU do this.

We know that she does it because it works for her.

OK... FF needs to get off my money soapbox and focus on other stuff.

FF