personality arguments.

[yamada]

One thing I find helpful with a borderline.

1. They project. Wow they project and it helps me understand what they are thinking and their behaviour. Everything my sister accuses me of... .she is.

2 an one amusement.  I often find my arguments re invented and thrown back at me as if it they were of  her creation... .sometimes she even uses my words. I dont know whether to be flattered.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Yamada, 

Indeed they do project. It can be tough to take two steps back from the words and hurt coming out. Are you able to do that? It sounds as if you are well aware of what you see going on. How does it help you, this knowing?

I too, am quite familiar with the arguements being thrown back at you with your words being used against you. It's tough because on one hand they want to be desperately close to others then on the other hand they dysregualte and alienate those closest to them. It's a vicous cycle.

Good observations! 

Wools

[zachira]

 When you listen to what people say about others or say to others, it tells you a lot about who they are and what they are thinking.

[yamada]

I cant believe I never saw it before.

[RomanticFool]

I hope you don’t mind me chiming in on this thread regarding the issue of projection. Yesterday I had a long winded ‘discussion’ with my borderline ex lover. We hadn’t spoken for 4 weeks since she cut me off of FB for what she claimed was my ST of her.

This is total projection since she is the queen of ST and has visited silence upon me throughout many painful years of our affair. The entire conversation yesterday was focussed on her deflecting every one of my points regarding her behaviour onto my behaviour.

Eventually I always own up to my own shortcomings in an endeavour to encourage her to follow suit. No chance. She has absolutely no interest at all in examining her own behaviour, despite being in AA, where self examination is a major part of recovery and she is also a counsellor for a suicide prevention charity.

In the past I have floated the idea of a personality disorder (when we were on good terms) and she agreed that many of the components of a BPD diagnosis are present in her: emptiness, abandonment fears, shame, unstable self image, substance abuse, impulsive behaviour, depression, suicidal ideation and unstable relationships. Yesterday she denied having any kind of disorder or complexes, accusing me of being an amateur psychoanalyst.

I told her that I considered I had some of these traits myself and far from trying to attack her or criticise her, I have been working with people who know about this disorder (on these boards) to try and find a way through my own issues. I told her that my only interest is in resolving a situation between us that is about constant resentment and recrimination. This assertion has been met with silence.

During our r/s she often projected her own behaviour onto me: accusing me of lying, manipulation and abandoning her. To be accused of ST is almost laughable since I am incapable of being quiet when it comes to her. I feel that for a borderline to accept they have a problem is very difficult due to their sense of shame and fear of being wrong, as this would mean taking responsibility and they just cannot countenance having to admit to having any part in a r/s break up. They have to point the finger at us in order to keep the illusion of their fantasy life going, in which they are the hero and victim of others’ aggression. We all do that to some extent, it’s just with a Borderline the transgressions are so blatant that their denials become like an intransigent adolescent unable to see their own faults. My ex is exhausting and relentlessly unyielding to deal with.

[zachira]

You say you can't believe you never saw it before. We protect ourselves until we are ready to deal with our pain. You are on a voyage of discovery and yes, it is painful, and with time, you will feel better and better. Feeling our pain allows us to feel our joy.

[Learning2Thrive]

You say you can't believe you never saw it before. We protect ourselves until we are ready to deal with our pain.

This is very true in my experience.

You are on a voyage of discovery and yes, it is painful, and with time, you will feel better and better. Feeling our pain allows us to feel our joy.

This is also true. zachira has offered some wonderfully wise words.

How are you doing, yamada?

  L2T

[yamada]

I found this page in 2002 when I was trying to figure out was it them and me. It has been my sanity place. it has always been there for me and the people have helped. Everytime I get something I share it.
today my sister said I cannot be trusted and I have mental instability. I cannot believe she gives herself away like this

[zachira]

You say every time you get something you share it with us. We are so glad to be a part of your journey, and when you share here, you help others who are struggling with similar situations to yours. Your sister is clearly talking about herself when she says such mean things about you, and you get it. Are you aware of what you are doing to send your sister's feelings back to her, and not internalize them yourself? Clearly your recognizing that the feelings are hers and have nothing to do with you, are steps towards things moving in the right directions.

[yamada]

Thanks Zachira.
Some how I am emotionally detaching myself from her. I look at her behaviour for what it is. I had to kick the denial out of myself to accept that she will never change and accept what I am dealing with.

The epiphany I wrote about on another thread has helped that.

I realise this isnt about our parents.this is her using a my parents as a weapon to punish me for not being the person she expects. I changed the dance.


All I want is for her to share information about my parents. All I want is to know what assessments she organised have been done and what is the outcome, considering I am the one looking after my parents.
She refuses to communicate with me as she sees me as some sort of abusive perpetrator
She hasn't seen the abuse she has hurled on me, however I have kept all texts and emails.
I have asked her countless times to communicate and share the outcome of an assessment as my parents are not sure. I have asked her to rise above her hatred of me for our parents sake.
She wont and she blames me.
I email her updates about our parents and she doesn't want that from me.
And one of the things my son said is that my sister will turn this into a three ring circus and she has.

I found the biggest weapon my mother and sister have used against me is my fathers hatred  of conflict. There was this automatic rule that Dad knows nothing.
at age 89 that rule for my father doesnt exist for me. And frankly it has made my relationship with him better.  

And so know when she sends me these silly text I tell him and I am honest wiiht him about my limitations because of her.  dad asked how did this start and i took him back to the woman he married and her behaviour ... my mother and all the secrets we had to keep.

His distress is obvious but I said to him.I will never lie to you. In three weeks he has learned more about my mothers secrets in the last 58 years than he ever knew.

And when my mother went into one of her vitriolic vindictive rages. I would just point and say this isnt dementia, nor anxiety its the women we know but you never got to see because its had to be kept secret. And franky when he couldnt hear I called  her a whore and I said that my cousins who know of her really dark secrets with men are happy to come and talk to dad. Yes I know its underhanded but  it is a reality.

God help my sister if ever she wants a DNA.

I have a son saying not my circus not my monkeys and it makes sense.

Now included in my sisters circus is the boyfriend who she tells my father is just a friend.
Her coworker at the school she teaches at who is a school counsellor who says I am mentally unstable.
The tech guy at work who is screening my emails and pulling out all the abuse I have inflicted on her
And now Her friends say this and that
oh and her kids hate me.
It seems the more I remain in a logical position the more she is going off.

I have supported a friend for 8 years with an ex DV perp partner and we made it our mission to understand the narcissistic perpetrator. Once you get inside their heads it helps.  

That has helped me understand the BIG manipulation tricks. Fear obligation and guilt.  and in turn using that to gaslight.

Everytime I feel uncomfortable I check for FOG.


So I use the "check the reality" tool.
When she says someone close to me says this and that  I check if that is true.
She said my mother cant stand being in the same room as me.I asked my BPD mother. mother says no. I ask who is lying.

She says her kids think I am awful. I say cheap to drag your kids into this and I suspect they have been alienated from me because of you

She says the school counsellor at her school says i am mentally unstable.  I say of course she would. thats what you want.

She says three things out of context... .I say its out of context.

And finally  she says all the stuff to justify running from me and to not communicate in the best interest of our parent as I request and not to share information

she wants one of those overwhelming fogs implanted in me and I have shut the door on it.

I say put it in a letter telling me what you want and dont want. Address how I am supposed to communicate with you in emergencies and such. Sign and date it and post it to me registered so it will get here,.

I dont get caught up in the detraction and the deflecting and when I have had enough I stick to my point.
So I stick to the point.

I just want the letter and if she is so stupid as to not see where this is heading ... .not my problem.

She said she would get an avo on me. I said the cops wont do it , it will have to be private and it will cost you a lot of money as it will fail because of evidence.

I have told my father if she continues to obstruct my care of them then it will escalate and I am not paying for it.

Know your facts and never ever let them undermine what is true. Always check the reality but in a logical manner. Respond do not react.  it is easy to want to hurt them as much as they are hurting you. Thats what I did.  Not now.

In fact I have prepared Dad for the manipulation she will bung on when he sees he next.

[LeneLu]

Today my sister said I cannot be trusted and I have mental instability. I cannot believe she gives herself away like this

THIS! This is what I have to remember whenever I am around my sister next.  It might help me actually get a sense of humor about this.