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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: I'm not healing, I'm waiting...  (Read 1093 times)
Zemmma
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« on: July 30, 2018, 10:40:08 PM »

Okay so I have not contacted him and he has not contacted me. And I don't even count the days but I guess it's around 3 months since he fairly suddenly left (again). He had been detaching for a while so it was not sudden to him- and I knew he wasn't letting me in or giving me what I needed, or compromising in the relationship for a while, but I didn't know that was him breaking up again. Because he denied he was. And he didn't have a final conversation with me at all. Just a final text "of course we are broken up." No comfort, no kind words. No explanation.

So "yay!" But that is sarcastic. Because he feels just as close as ever. He is everywhere in everything with me. It is as though he is standing with his nose pressed up against my face all the time (the imagery!). He is standing there in my way, staring at me and I have to try to push him aside in order to do anything.

Yes. I am getting stuff done. Not with great productivity, but yes, I am pursuing my dreams, and bringing home the bacon and feeding the kids and being a decent enough friend and daughter, etc.

But when it comes to him I am in denial most of the time. I find myself imagining that all it would take is an email from me and he would be running back. Or I would just have to bump into him on the street. I just have to crack the door open and boom, there he is with remorse and apologies and swearing everlasting love.

Does anyone else get the feeling that instead of "moving on" or "moving forward" you are actually just waiting? I feel like I am waiting. Waiting for him to make a move. Waiting for him to come back. Waiting for something good for him and I. I am not thinking in terms of waiting until I hear he has a new person in his life (if I would even find out at all). But what if I "wait" another year, feeling this close to him and then I hear that? And I will have waited while he moved on. Or what if I wait until whatever fling he might have going on right now fails and then he decides to call me and tell me that I am the greatest thing that ever lived?

Why do I believe these things? Yes, he said and did amazing and wonderful things. But he was also brutally honest in telling me bad things too. Like he didn't believe in us. That he didn't see a future for us. That he didn't trust me. That he hasn't been happy for years. Why don't I hear these negative (honest) things?

I only hear the love. I only have hope. I am a silly little romantic fool. He is gone 3 months now and he is living his life in whatever way he sees fit. I can imagine him crying on his bathroom floor, or out entertaining some new lover until dawn. Whatever his truth of his current life, he hasn't bothered to share it with me. He hasn't contacted me. He ran away and didn't look back.

Now... .he's come back every time before. So of course I have been conditioned to wait. To imagine he will come around and see the light. This is just what he does. Or is it? It is the confusion around this and the fact that I am a hopeless romantic and optimist that keeps me waiting.

How do you know if you are moving on? Time is passing, but he is still my closest person. How do you stop yourself from waiting forever?
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2018, 10:50:57 PM »

Excerpt
Now... .he's come back every time before. So of course I have been conditioned to wait.

This would be difficult.  He changed the pattern,  and it must be brutal. 

What would closure look like to you? Is closure even what you want,  or just for him to return as before?
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Zemmma
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2018, 01:26:52 AM »

Thanks Turkish... .

I don't even know if he has broken the pattern. I thought he was gone for good every other time too.

I don't see a way back from this. He doesn't either. But we didn't before either.

Put in a certain situation either one of us could make the choice to come back. For a little while or a long while. He has left for up to a year before. And then he has come back for a year. A couple of times.

I know he broke us this way to try to destroy that damned bridge. Part of him has been uncomfortable with us and me for the entire time we were together. He has been fighting so hard to get away. Over and over. I wouldn't let him. He wouldn't let him. This has caused him endless inner struggle whenever we are together or apart. My friend once said, "He is trying so hard to get away from you! Let him go!"

So yes. Not so ideal. I chose not to focus on the leaving. I focused on the fact that we always came back. I thought that meant we were meant to be.

A different friend who has observed this whole thing unfold has predicted he will come back this time in six to eight months. He won't put himself out there completely but he will test the waters. She has been correct each time before.

But maybe he is fed up with feeling this and hoping things will get better for him in this relationship when they don't. He always comes to the same conclusions.

He is an artist and he actually loves his angst. Loves and hates it. Lives it and sits with it deep into the night. Slips deeper into it or out of it with his drugs and cigarettes and alcohol and late night friends. That is who he is. I recognized his "darkness" from the beginning. The last thing he wants to do is change himself.

When we were together and as he left he blamed me for his unhappiness. Maybe he is better off when alone. He has reported that he feels better months into a break up. Better alone. In the relationship he pushed and pulled and always began to feel "trapped" and the need to "run away."

I will do nothing. He needs to discover himself for a while. Now that we are done. He didn't spend enough time being alone after his marriage ended. He has transferred a lot of his guilt and pain and shame and hurt and damage of his failed marriage (his choice to leave) and broken family on me.

I want him to experience himself. If he does he may realize he is actually not happy anyways. Then he will realize just maybe, that it wasn't me causing all of this pain.

Or at this point, I want him to experience another relationship. And again, I think he will find himself there. The emptiness, the pain, the discomfort, the need to push and pull and run and hide. He will realize that he is once again himself. And he is again, unhappy. And then he will have to face that just maybe this wasn't all my fault. I want him to experience himself again and again until he realizes that he can change the situation and women again and again, but he won't be happy until he changes himself.

Meanwhile I will try not to wait. Of course I want him back. But I wish even more that I could start something as wildly passionate with someone who doesn't have such inclinations to leave me. Because he won't change for me. He can't change. I love him as he is. But he can't love me as he is. Not without leaving over and over. So yes I want him back, and no.

I just wish my brain would start to understand what has happened and begin to accept that he is really gone.
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DogMan75
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2018, 06:56:17 AM »

The key to happiness isn’t getting what you want, it’s wanting what you get.

The pattern you’re describing makes you a passsenger, a victim to his whimsy. Is that really good enough for you? You do have a choice here. He likely will come back to you. The question is, do you really want him back?

Maybe I’m projecting my own issues onto you here, but in my case, she is trying to get back in now. Desperately. I left her in November, after years of her denying her role in our relationship’s decline, culminating in a year-long therapeutic separation that she wasted, not holding up to her end of the bargain. Even then, I was explicit, that should she get her ___ together, I would try again anytime. She told me she would use this time to work on herself, she couldn’t be with anybody else, wanted to be with me, etc. We were in constant contact and she was saying all the right things. Meanwhile, she’s on dating sites and sleeping with other men by January. She didn’t disclose this until June. So for six months, I’m living in this fantasy world where she’s realized her mistakes and is trying hard to do right. In reality, I’m what, a backup plan? A reservoir of external validation?

Over the last month, she seems to have realized her mistake. She calls, texts, emails, despite the fact that I don’t reply. She is systematically acknowledging and taking ownership for all the wrongs she’s subjected me to, starting from the beginning of our relationship six years ago. I’m hearing everything I begged to hear from her the entire time. It’s literally what I always wanted.

Doesn’t matter, I’m done. Being a backup plan isn’t good enough for me. Yes, she’s never going to do better than me, duh. No one is going to love her as much as I loved her. No one is going to know her as well as I knew her. No one is going to accept her, warts and all, as I accepted her. But that doesn’t mean I’ll accept anything from her.

I never needed her to be perfect, but sleeping with other people while you’re professing your undying love to me is a dealbreaker. Lying to me, for months, is a dealbreaker. There’s just no coming back from that. Yes, she’s realized what terrible mistakes she made, but she’s realized them too late. I need someone who will realize that level of mistake before they make them, not after.

I don’t need a perfect partner -nobody is perfect. But I have some minimum requirements. Honesty. Loyalty. Devotion. I think those are fair enough, and I think every partner in a romantic relationship is entitled to those. I didn’t get them. Sounds like you didn’t either.

Let’s say he comes back. Now what? You just wait for him to leave again? That’s the cycle, right? Is that good enough? Is that the best you can do? If you saw your adult child accepting that from a partner, would you be okay with that? Think about that. That is what you’re modeling for them. If you don’t think it’s good enough for them, it’s not good enough for you either. Treat yourself as well as you want your children to treat themselves.

If you’re just waiting right now and not actively detaching, you’re wasting a valuable opportunity. This radio silence is a chance to get your head in order without the confusion of his input. Take advantage of it. Start creating and reinforcing your own patterns of thought to validate yourself without him. He doesn’t hold the keys to your happiness. You do.

Don’t relegate yourself to be a consolation prize. You don’t deserve that. Nobody deserves that. If it makes it any easier for you, know you’re not doing him any favors by playing his game either. What does he learn by you playing along? Just that this is all acceptable behavior.

Be the one that got away. Be his rock bottom. Be the mistake he can’t undo. Maybe it will inspire some real change in him. It will be too late for your relationship, but maybe it will open up the opportunity for true happiness for him down the road.

Whether or not that happens for him is up to him. Whether or not it happens for you is up to you. Don’t leave your happiness in the hands of someone who clearly can’t be trusted with it. Take it for yourself.




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Shawnlam
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2018, 08:03:18 AM »

Time will not heal anything if your spending it waiting for something to happen.If I may be so blunt here zemma, you have given this person a lot of power over you.You and only you have allowed him this much control over you.Its hard I know because you are still in love with him it’s obvious in your writing.
 
You need to decide what it is you want? Do you want him back again? Do you want this recycled life over and over again? Has he seeked  help to fix himself to stop doing these things ? If not , do you think it will ever stop? 

If you chose to have this end , then I suggest you make a list as to why this can’t continue for you.A pros and cons list .By seeing only the good ,the “love” , you will be stuck in waiting mode.I also suggest to you ,to write a list of what you deserve to have in a partner and what you want .You should feel very different when you write these things down and read them over and over again.You May even get angry at seeing all the time that has gone by , but that anger defeats fear and fear may very well be why you continue to think about the what if’s? What if I don’t find someone else ? What if he wakes up cured ? Etc etc... .eventually there will be a time when you won’t care about the what if’s , you will only care about the “ so what’s next for me”.

Here is a quote that may shed some light on your ex : A man who dares to  waste one hour of time , has not discovered the value of life.   
Zemma : how much time has he wasted of yours ?
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Zemmma
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2018, 08:08:42 AM »

Yes. All true DogMan75.

He won't come begging anyway.

I just want every day apart to be a step in the right direction- towards healing. I am frustrated with a process of looping around and ending up just missing and wanting him again. I want him to feel like a distant memory. I want the emotion to fade, my interest to wane. I want to feel progress.

I am frustrated because time sometimes seems to do the opposite. I just miss him more. I am upset that meeting other potential partners just makes me see how much I adored him and loved and anticipated our times together and felt he was my home. Other men just make me want him more. I hate that I don't have a sex life and any time I have engaged with anyone since I met him i am reminded how amazing our sex life was.

His worst flaw is his need and want to leave. And yes. YES. It is a deal breaker. So pick up and dust off and try another day.

But I can't deny that life without him is less. I was always happier with him than without him. There is no relief in the silence. I endure it.

At least I am doing NC. I can whine and gripe about it here but he doesn't even know. I am sure he has told himself that I don't care and that I have completely moved on without him. He just makes up anything that helps him feel better about himself and then he believes it.

He is a coward and he didn't see me for who I am. I know my worth. I just wish I could detach from this man because I am perfectly capable of loving someone. It's just so hard to find. I have only fallen in love only 2x in 48 years. Its magical and rare.

I don't want to be waiting. It is not a conscious choice to wait. But that is a sense I sometimes get. I imagine conversations we will have in the future. I imagine what both of us might say. I catch myself imagining that these occasions will really happen. I hear songs and imagine him hearing them and yearning for me, now or in future. Thinking of this great lost, love. Setting me apart from everyone else, all the other women he has ever had. Its just my mind wanting to keep this special and denying that it is truly over.



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Zemmma
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2018, 08:27:58 AM »

Shawnlam,
I know.

I am doing everything right but I just get caught up in my emotions.

He was the cure to my divorce. I was with a man for 27 years, lived with him for 23 years, was married to the same man for 17 years, had two kids, had a happy life. Then he left.

And this new man swooped in and "saved me." He really did. And he brought affection and excitement, and poetry and music and conversation and sex and companionship and text-support around the clock and a whole nightlife and new circle of friends... as I had to face the cold reality of my entire life falling to pieces. And even when I had to face the fact that I would only ever have my kids 50% of the time, when they left to go with their dad I had this exciting love to go to. And I could look forward to that. And he gave me things my husband hadn't given me in years or ever. He was an amazing match for my personality, philosophy, emotional needs, etc. So time with him was never wasted. I don't regret a second of it. I was always happier when he was in my life. It was always "worth it." He was good to me when I was there. He cooked for me, gave me massages, love, he was a gentleman. It was in between visits usually when he would go dark. And because we kept our lives pretty separate, there were a lot of times during the week when we were apart. And he didn't feel we were right for many reasons, the biggest is I couldn't live with him and would never marry again. His moodiness, his drinking, smoking, his financial instability, his sleep patterns. I knew early on that we would not survive under the same roof. And I wasn't and am no longer willing to let another man come in and destroy this safe space I have created for me and my kids. Any lover I have will get my devotion and commitment, but they will have to accept that I am not supporting them in my home. This space is mine. I know not every man will want that and that is their right.

So losing him leaves me empty and sad. But I am okay. I have not sat still. I have never stopped trying. I get out there. I am fit and young for my age and I am ambitious. I don't doubt that I can attract someone. I just hope I can find somewhere to put all of this love. I hope that something or someone will start to kill off this feeling of intense love I have for this man. I have all the lists. I have them everywhere. I already know all the reasons it can't work. All the reasons to be angry. I do read them daily. Its just this strong feeling of love and connection and yearning and devotion to him that I wish would fade.

Or maybe I just need to accept that I have to live with it. Live with loss. I can't deny the love. I just have to accept it is over.
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2018, 08:56:46 AM »

Zemmma, I feel your struggle.

For me, when it good, it was beyond amazing. When it was bad, it was nearly, but not quite, intolerable. I couldn't leave.
When it is nothing, it's the worst.

My kindest IRL friends have been reminding me, it's going to hurt. And it does. The worst pain was the day I decided to choose to no longer be in that relationship. Before that, it was his choice and I was stuck with it. Stuck being the operative word. Choosing what I felt I had little choice over (yes, I know I could talk him back like I did every other time), choosing the pain of dissolving the relationship is helping me regain my heart and power.

My choice came as a fleeting thought -
"what if I could choose this ending?"

Your choice may be different. There's power in choice.


Or maybe I just need to accept that I have to live with it. Live with loss. I can't deny the love. I just have to accept it is over.

It's the mind game, I still do it too, thinking about him, what he's doing, how he's feeling.

In truth, the important thing is, how are you doing? How are you feeling?  Bringing yourself back to you could be a way out of this maze of grieving.

With love,
River
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2018, 09:08:35 AM »

Another question, are the lists you have around keeping him in your thoughts?

A couple of affirmations that have been helping me :
In the wholeness of love, all is set right.

It's all okay, really it is.

Relax. You're in the middle.

(the last one refers to the fact that my inner landscape is changing daily)

Be good to you.
The opposite of love is indifference, not hate... .
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2018, 09:34:41 AM »

  Zemmma, I definitely understand your pain.  Something I noticed is that your posts are filled with him.  What he did, what he said, what he was.  What about you?  Are you working on yourself and strengthening who you are?

I think the only way to heal from this is to look inward and love yourself enough to be your own best partner. 

Peace and blessings,

Mustbeabetterway
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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2018, 10:18:46 AM »

Oh, Zemmma.

I really wish I didn’t know exactly what you mean.

It was amazing. It really was. I loved her with everything I had. I became more just to have more to love her with. It was what you read about.

I met her when I was 36. I had been dating for 20 years. I had been in love, a few times, but I’d never felt anything like this. I loved her the moment I met her. I went from not believing in marriage to knowing she was my wife in a matter of days. It was the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. I stopped drinking. I stopped smoking weed. I didn’t want to change one bit of what I was feeling. I’m glad I had the good sense to savor every moment. I really did. I drank it up. I soaked in it. I felt it as much as I could.

The last time I spoke to her was July 5th. She was begging me to try again. She said, “Do you really think you can find a love like this again?”

My first impulse was, “Dear God, I hope not,” but I didn’t say that. My second thought (which I also didn’t say) was, “Well, yes and no.”

I probably won’t find someone I’ll love like that again. I hadn’t in the last twenty years of dating. I’m sure I’ll fall in love again, it just won’t be with the complete and instant abandon I felt with her.

On the other hand, and this is why I didn’t say it, I can find someone who can love me better anywhere. Objectively, she was the worst girlfriend I’ve ever had. She lied to me. She bashed me to her friends and family. She didn’t stick up for me. She effectively cheated on me,  and likely cheated on me for real during the actual relationship. She was really terrible, honestly. I cut her a lot of slack because I was aware of her mental illness, but looking back, I obviously cut her too much. It’s so strange to think that the woman I hands-down loved the most was in reality the least deserving of it.

The other part of what I didn’t say was that no, I won’t find that love again elsewhere, but I won’t find it here either. After the betrayal and the loss of trust, I can’t even love her like that. Not again. It’s ruined.

I’m not really ready to date again yet. In a couple of months, probably. We’ll see how I feel then. I feel bad already for the first couple of women I date. They’re inheriting a mess.

I think the key is going to be a numbers game. I just need to date a whole bunch of people. It took me twenty years to find someone who I felt that way about, but how many people was that? I like being in a monogamous relationship, but looking back, I’ve always spent far too long trying to fix relationships that weren’t going to work out, this one most of all. It’s time to change that, I think. Holy crap, it’s almost like I’m learning!

Remember that you’re only a few months out yourself. There’d be something wrong with you if you could just feel that magic again right out of the gate. In fact there’s even a name for that, isn’t there? It’s on the tip of my tongue... .




 






 

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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2018, 02:35:04 PM »

hi Zemmma,

i can certainly relate, and i dont think its uncommon to feel this way. grief is complex stuff.

i was in waiting mode myself for some months. waiting for her to contact me. waiting for her new relationship to end... .one month, then three months. part of me wanted to be done, part of me wanted to try again, part of me wanted her to reach out so i could reject her... .lots of different scenarios, lots of shifting resolve.

i did, eventually, accept that the relationship was over, that she wasnt coming back, and that there was no going back if she did. i dont know that there was a magic bullet to get to that stage, i did what youre doing, and worked the stages of grief, tried to live my life as if i was moving on even though it didnt feel that way.

if it helps, around a year or two out, i could look back and see that i really was moving on, i was grieving, and moving through the stages of grief, and "the stuff i was doing", were part of that, though none of it felt that way at the time. it felt like i was just languishing, and even worse off on some days than others. i think  a lot of us have a tendency to judge our grief, feel like we should be further along or arent where we should be, want it all to happen quickly.

to me, the ups, the downs, the feeling stuck, its really all part of the process. its really hard to see that when we are in it. 
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2018, 03:22:59 PM »

Hi Zemmma,

I feel for you so much in your suffering. I know how it hurts. I've struggled with thinking my ex will call me months from now and tell me he's gone through therapy and he's "cured." He will admit fault for all wrongdoing and promise me he'll never lie again, never again abuse me emotionally, that he's stable and holding down a job, and from here on out, everything will be different. And I'll have him back with all of the good things that made our love so special and powerful, and the bad things will be gone. But I can't live my life that way.
It's good that you're still working on being productive, taking care of the kids, going on with your life. I know the grieving is horrible, and the rumination is agonizing. As others have said, it's still early in the process for you, and time does ease the intensity of the pain.

I wanted to ask if you'd ever read anything about radical acceptance? It's basically about just accepting a difficult reality, despite how painful it is. Once you just accept that this is how things are, it helps you to then deal with it. It sounds Someone on this site mentioned it on another thread, and I read about it. It helped me take some good steps in the process of moving on, and I wondered if it might help you, too. Below is a link to one article, but there may be other, better ones.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pieces-mind/201207/radical-acceptance

Hope you find it helpful. 
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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2018, 06:40:39 PM »

Wow so many amazing responses. I cried as I read them. (Who is surprised? Smiling (click to insert in post)

I need to read over it again when I have more time. But just one thought here that came from some of your questions...

First of all, if you read all of my posts I probably sound all over the place. He was amazing. He was horrible. I deserve better. I want him back. All that. Its all over the place because so am I. Everyone here will get that.

But the one thing I need to really tap into is the feeling of relief I got every time he broke up with me. It wasn't as strong as the grief ever. I wasn't nearly as powerful the panic and feelings of loss and abandonment. But it was there too.

It was a feeling from just one small, rational part of me. The part of me that knew that this wasn't quite right. For as much as I loved him and adored him and loved being in that relationship, it wasn't quite right. On some level I knew this well.

And for a brief moment after break-up I would think. There. Now you have a chance to have everything you want and need in life. My husband of forever left me the year this new, wild guy swiped me up. But since then I have built an amazing AMAZING life for myself. All the ducks are in a row. There is nothing I want that is out of my reach. And when he left I thought, "that was the only thing that didn't fit." Now there is a possibility that I can have it all.

But the thought is fleeting in my grief. I want to get that feeling back, dig my teeth into it. I know I could be perfectly happy with someone else (if I can only find him) in a way I could never be with him. There were too many limitations with him. Too much angst. Too much destructive past. Too much mistrust. Too much arms length I had to keep in order to maintain "healthy, normal boundaries." Things  were not quite right with him.

And when I am alone, well that's not right either. Much less right because this man gave me a taste of the best reward on earth. When I am hopeful I think of this. 
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2018, 10:09:18 PM »

Interesting. As much as it hurt to be left for another man,  part of was was relieved. As if I didn't have the courage to end a r/s which overall I felt was driving me to an early grave. Even now, 5 years out, I still kind of miss her (especially when our co-parenting interactions are good).

It's hard to synthesize conflicting emotions. 
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2018, 10:56:16 PM »

But the one thing I need to really tap into is the feeling of relief I got every time he broke up with me.
... .

But the thought is fleeting in my grief.

i had a foot out of the relationship for a lot of its duration. i threatened, and thought about a breakup frequently. and due to my exs clinginess, and how often we fought, i was always fighting for time away from her.

yet her dumping me and moving on reduced me to desperately wanting her back, daily anxiety attacks, daily crying (like a baby) jags, and the lowest place emotionally i have ever been in.

feelings of rejection are a powerful thing in that way.

in her book, the Journey from Abandonment to Healing, Susan Anderson writes about what she describes as the various Stages of Abandonment.

Excerpt
ANGER--The turning point in the grief process when you begin to fight back. You attempt to Reverse the Rejection by Refusing to accept all of the blame for the failed relationship, and feel surges of Anger against your Abandoner. You Rail against the pain and isolation you’ve been in. Agitated depression and spurts of Anger displaced on your friends and family are common during this turbulent time, as are Revenge and Retaliation fantasies toward your Abandoner.

in my experience, tapping into those feelings really helped. personally, recalling them did nothing, but writing them down marked a major turning point in my grief. i held nothing back. i wrote a lot of things id never share with anyone.

let me be clear: you wont heal by painting him black or over investing in a narrative that casts him as all bad, and it wont ring true if you try. i realize now that what i was doing was my version of "you cant reject me, im rejecting YOU".

i think if you can acknowledge those feelings, and feel them, without over indulging them, and, simultaneously acknowledge and feel the feelings that you miss him, that youre hurting, and grieve the loss (easier said than done, i know), that it can be a healthy exercise, akin to writing a list of pros and cons about the relationship.
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« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2018, 11:16:12 PM »

Excerpt
I am a silly little romantic fool.

You are not alone!

Excerpt
I only hear the love. I only have hope.

I have felt this way on and off over a 16 year period with my ex lover.

Excerpt
But when it comes to him I am in denial most of the time. I find myself imagining that all it would take is an email from me and he would be running back. Or I would just have to bump into him on the street. I just have to crack the door open and boom, there he is with remorse and apologies and swearing everlasting love.

Every time my ex visits ST upon me my hope is that it will be all fine and dandy with a few wrods of love. Guess what? They are not going to come once the pwBPD goes into the devaluing stage. I was painted black by my ex a few years back and things have never been the same since. As soon as they start finding fault it is time to leave. I wish I had and saved myself years of heartache.

Excerpt
Does anyone else get the feeling that instead of "moving on" or "moving forward" you are actually just waiting? I feel like I am waiting. Waiting for him to make a move. Waiting for him to come back. Waiting for something good for him and I. I am not thinking in terms of waiting until I hear he has a new person in his life (if I would even find out at all). But what if I "wait" another year, feeling this close to him and then I hear that? And I will have waited while he moved on. Or what if I wait until whatever fling he might have going on right now fails and then he decides to call me and tell me that I am the greatest thing that ever lived?

You have just described my state of mind for the last 3 years. It's the hope that keeps us hanging on in there. The hope that the r/s will go back to the best days when we thought they were totally loved up with us. I look back at that those times now and realise that it was always about making her feel good. She once begged me to call her in Vegas where she was on holiday with her husband just so she could hear my voice. I thought that must be love. All I was doing was giving her supply. I don't think it is possible to love anybody more than the way I loved her. From her point of view she has been using me all along to make herself feel less empty. I don't believe she is capable of love. Not as a non experiences it. For my ex it is always wrapped up in her needs and what she wants. The minute I have needs she loses interest.

Excerpt
How do you know if you are moving on? Time is passing, but he is still my closest person. How do you stop yourself from waiting forever?

You get off the crazy train and look at yourself. Remember that we are attracted to our emotional equals. What is it in you that makes you drawn to him? Are you a rescuer? Are you codependent and put his needs before your own? I know that is the case with my ex. I almost subjugated myself to the Goddess that I put on a pedestal. What is it about me that I feel so attached to a crazy person who does nothing but hand me my heart on a silver platter? Once we start asking ourselves those questions it becomes difficult to justify putting up with the pwBPD's hurtful antics any longer.
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Zemmma
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2018, 08:08:14 AM »

RomanticFool:

That's easy. Why did I keep coming back? Not because there is something wrong with me. Not to fill his needs, to fill mine.

His positive qualities that attracted me were the best thing I have ever experienced. I could disregard the rest because when I was with him I was happier, more satisfied, more interested, more at home, more excited than anywhere or any other time on earth. I always said, if I had to take only one thing or person to a deserted island it would be him. I think despite his difficulties, he is amazing.

That kind of connection is something no one would want to give up. So I resisted his resistance. He felt attracted to me to, but he didn't feel all of the things I felt above. Obviously. I guess I was stubborn. More focused on what I want than what he want. It made me believe his positive, and ignore all of the negative things he said about the relationship. I wanted to believe.
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2018, 11:05:45 AM »

Excerpt
That's easy. Why did I keep coming back? Not because there is something wrong with me. Not to fill his needs, to fill mine.

I told myself this all the time but the problem for me was if I decided to forget everything that had happened just so I could see her again and have wonderful times in bed and talk to her, then I wasn't really fulfilling my needs for requited, respectful love.

Excerpt
His positive qualities that attracted me were the best thing I have ever experienced. I could disregard the rest because when I was with him I was happier, more satisfied, more interested, more at home, more excited than anywhere or any other time on earth. I always said, if I had to take only one thing or person to a deserted island it would be him. I think despite his difficulties, he is amazing.

Except he is not reliable. Exactly like my ex. Not so amazing to be left alone and in pain. I empathise with everything you have said here and I feel the same way about my ex. Never felt closer to anybody in my life. We are attracted to our emotional equals. I am the emotional equal of a selfish, childish woman who lacks empathy or interest in anything to do with my life. I think, what does that say about me? Except I'm not the same as her because I do have empathy for other people and I care if I hurt somebody. My ex couldn't care less about my feelings. As long as everything is good in her life she is content.

Excerpt
That kind of connection is something no one would want to give up. So I resisted his resistance. He felt attracted to me to, but he didn't feel all of the things I felt above. Obviously. I guess I was stubborn. More focused on what I want than what he want. It made me believe his positive, and ignore all of the negative things he said about the relationship. I wanted to believe.

I shared that thought process for many many years. Until she rang me from Hyde Park where she was at a gig with another man and taunted me down the phone. Another time when I was begging her to talk to me, she refused because she had started drinking and I am sober, she texted me from the hairdressers and said she was getting all her hair cut off because that's what women in ancient tribes did when their lovers deserted them. I cried myself to sleep for weeks after that. It is very easy to be blinded by our desires for these flawed people and contract 'abuse amnesia,' but eventually for me the pain of her cruelty outweighed my desire to see her.
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2018, 04:34:00 PM »

I am sorry to hear this. I don't know if this would help you, but I know that deep down I feel the same way. I try to meet others, but at the same time take things slowly. But it just is not that easy and every setback leads to two things: thinking about her again and more or less trying to protect myself by building even more walls. So in a way, maybe more subconsciously, I am waiting for things to turn around... .

I wish things were different.
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« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2018, 08:52:09 AM »

It is incredibly hard to move on from someone we are so attached to .These individuals came probably the closest to our hearts than anyone we have had in our lives .The important factor is to back up and see the relationship for what it was or is.Its not about who hurt who more? Or who it is that needs to be blamed .All the finger pointing ,all the what if’s ,all the yeah but’s ... .it keeps us in a vicious circle of perpetual heart break .We always think in the past and never get along with the healing process.It all adds up to coming to terms with what happened which often more than not we all somewhat know what just happened but we tend to “over look” it for the good (great) moments we had or felt. I myself when I was appart from my gf for over a month spent countless hours telling myself “ Shawn you are in love with her you can deal with her ways to be with her that’s what love is about”.That really translates into “ put aside all your wants so that you can stop your heart break and everything will feel better”.

All I can say Zemma is when you feel that need or want of him back ,whip out the cons list read it over and over again.
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Zemmma
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2018, 09:47:41 AM »

Thanks...

I am trying. I know he was difficult. And I did get the chance to fix things. To change me to try to be what he needed. It didn't work. I would solve one problem and he would find another. I would give in to his demands and he would demand something else- with barely an acknowledgement of what I had given or sacrificed. It was always this way. He was never happy. He couldn't be content. Maybe he can't be content in a relationship.

I know at a core level that no amount of me bending or changing will change him. This is who he is. Maybe by a stroke of luck he will find someone that will be the right fit to disrupt his nasty pattern. Maybe a different personality will be able to better support him. I know he and his ex-wife shared what he called a "supreme friendship," but then he became bored and needed more excitement. And then he found all the reasons she irritated him. With me, maybe it was the same. Except, we clashed on so many ideas and values and this was a source of conflict.

For me it was interesting, our debates. Sometimes. But these differences in opinion felt like "fights" to him. Always reminded me of Feist lyrics in I Feel it All, "id we fight or did we talk?" Sometimes his arguments seemed completely unreasonable to me. Just completely ridiculous. And there was arrogance and stubbornness in both of us. So yes, I think we didn't bring out the best in each other. Although I think I loved the intensity of the engagement, if that makes sense. I loved how we dissected and analyzed everything. Both philosophical, we could talk about something for hours. And when he was supportive he was awesome. It wasn't all bad of course. But there was just too much conflict. And he felt the conflict much more intensely than I ever did. And he had to "recover" from conflict, or even bad thoughts. It was his difficulty with emotional regulation.

For now, I guess it's on my own and hoping in future I can find someone with similar qualities (or something equally enticing) that is "reliable" as RomanticFool, has pointed out. This man is a coward and he is self-serving. He would leave me in battle. If I had a chronic disease or God-forbid, grew old, there is no way he would stand by me. He won't do it when I am at the top of my game! And he, such the devoted dad, and brother and friend. I have read all of those articles about how you can judge a man's character on how well he treats the wait-staff. But please, he would be sweet as honey to them, and treat me like something he found on the bottom of his shoe. I think a better judge of character is how you treat the ones you love, the ones who love you and support you, and stand by you through everything. The ones you sleep with. The ones you have asked to love and trust you. Failing that is the biggest cruelty. Being unkind or disregarding, or punishing, or closing out someone who has given themselves to you fully.

So detach. I have to stop thinking about him so much. Its harming me.
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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2018, 10:51:57 AM »

It’s perfectly normal Zemma to always have your mind on them.We tend to lose ourselves totally to them because of the way we are drawn to them (mirroring etc).To your point you said you tried to change to suit them which in itself is very unworkable in the long run trust me I’ve tried it.Its extremely unnatural for one to change themselves for someone because I’m the end we tend to resent them for this .So what you are going through I totally understand.It will take sometime to find yourself again , to understand why you thought you would need to change for him .You deserve better and should aim to be you with your next partner, an improved you who knows what she wants and certainly knows now from this experience what she doesn’t want!

Take this learning experience as a blessing in disguise and try your best to learn from it .Feel free to always ask ,talk to use we are hear for you.
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2018, 03:09:13 PM »

Excerpt
For now, I guess it's on my own and hoping in future I can find someone with similar qualities (or something equally enticing) that is "reliable" as RomanticFool, has pointed out. This man is a coward and he is self-serving. He would leave me in battle. If I had a chronic disease or God-forbid, grew old, there is no way he would stand by me. He won't do it when I am at the top of my game! And he, such the devoted dad, and brother and friend. I have read all of those articles about how you can judge a man's character on how well he treats the wait-staff. But please, he would be sweet as honey to them, and treat me like something he found on the bottom of his shoe. I think a better judge of character is how you treat the ones you love, the ones who love you and support you, and stand by you through everything. The ones you sleep with. The ones you have asked to love and trust you. Failing that is the biggest cruelty. Being unkind or disregarding, or punishing, or closing out someone who has given themselves to you fully.

So detach. I have to stop thinking about him so much. Its harming me.

Your pain is tangible Zemmma and you describe it very well. I have felt exactly like this for quite a bit of the last 18 months. I am beginning to come out of my own reverie a little now and I do feel I have gained some wisdom that will really help moving forward. I would say do not lose sight of your core values, because those are who you are. Your desire for a loving relationship can be achieved and as the song goes, 'As long as I know how to love... .'  then I stand a chance of meeting somebody who will love me back. Relationships are full of compromise and acceptance of our SO's foibles... .but what we should never settle for is abuse, disrespect and being devalued. I know I never will again.

RF
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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2018, 01:21:07 PM »

Relationships are full of compromise and acceptance of our SO's foibles... .but what we should never settle for is abuse, disrespect and being devalued. I know I never will again.

Amen, brother.
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