My 5 year old daughter asking to see uBPD grandma

[looking4light113]

I’ve shared about the whole story before but basically my mom and I are NC right now but my kids don’t know what is going on. My mom was living in our back house and just moved a couple weeks ago. My 5 year old asked today when she can see her new place and go swimming like my mom promised when we were on better terms before she lost it on my husband and me. She told us she was going to get new grandchildren and new kids - ummmm ok   The last time I spoke to my mom she was so mean I just don’t want to see her until she can apologize or at least make an appointment for us to see her in counseling. I really don’t think she’s going to reach out because she is too bitter.

I don’t know what to say to our kids. I shouldn’t contact her right?
I feel guilt for my kids not being able to see their grandma but it is consequences for her actions. She even asked I’ve who I thought I was punishing, them or her? Insinuating I was punishing them not her. She does want to see them but I think her pride is bigger.

I told my daughter that grandma would call when she is settled in her new place. I told her she’s probably still unpacking. I don’t want my kids to think it’s their fault that grandma doesn’t want to see them. Ugh! This is just rotten.

[Turkish]

My kids were 3 and 5 when grandma left basically overnight, no goodbyes. It pissed me off that she couldn't even stick around three more weeks for my daughter's 4th birthday.

The kids didn't notice her absence at first,  but they started asking questions eventually.  I deflected the best I could.  "Grandma went back to her home in the mountains." That was true.

We've seen her once a few months ago.  The kids still remember her fondly. And they ask about visiting her more often.  At their ages the year plus separation didn't compute.

At 6 and 8 now, I just validate that they miss her. At these ages,  they're easily distracted by whatever is going on in the Now. They ask when we can see her,  and I say "maybe in a few weeks." I'm not lying to them but I kind of feel like I am.  It sucks. 

[HappyChappy]

I just don’t want to see her until she can apologize or at least make an appointment for us to see her in counseling. I don’t want my kids to think it’s their fault that grandma doesn’t want to see them. Ugh! This is just rotten.

This must be very frustrating for you. I went NC with my BPD & NPD, for 3 years. Even though  these relatives technically broke the law, and we could have brought the Police in, they still refused to apologies, preferring to feud for 3 years rather than appologies. No chance of counselling if someone can't  accept they've done wrong. After reconnecting, they are now demanding apologies from us.
 
The story with our kids was easier, in that these two where physically knocking about their scapegoat and our kids had never liked their in-laws, they were understandably scared of them, as pretty much everyone is. But I sense in your case, it may not be as clear cut.

If your BPD won't apologies (as is the norm), do you think you can use strong boundaries to protect yourself and your children and maintain low contact to begin with ? If you never leave you kids alone with your BPD, how does she behave ? We found, our BPD and NPD tend to act badly, if they think no one is looking. So our boundary is they can see their BPD, but always with us present, and they (and we) will never see their NPD again (he’s violent). Could you see yourself moving to some compromise at some point ? How much of the bad BPD behaviour have your kids observed ?

[zachira]

It can be terribly upsetting for a young child to have a grandparent suddenly disappear from their lives. I have a friend with children who were 5 and 7 when their grandmother suddenly went NC for a couple of years. The children never stopped asking about grandma, and their mom really did not know what to say, except to validate the children's feelings. I think it is important to listen to your child talk about how she feels about grandmother not being in her life right now, and let her know that she had nothing to do with her grandmother's disappearance. Young children often think they did something wrong when a grandparent is no longer in contact with them. Keep us posted on how you are doing, and above all, please let us know what really helps you daughter. We have many parents who post about this dilemma, so we really like to keep track of what the best approaches are to helping the child heal from the sudden absence of a grandparent.

[Learning2Thrive]

Hi looking4light113,

I understand your frustration with this situation.   

I want to echo zachira’s suggestion to listen to your child and validate her feelings. I think it’s very important to do this while also being as honest as you can in an age appropriate manner. I don’t think it’s wrong to discuss the basics and model good boundary setting. Perhaps let your daughter know that grandma is not well and has done some things that make it not safe to spend time with her right now. But that you hope grandma will choose to get help and do what she needs to do so you can all spend time together one day soon.

I also want to caution you on being swayed by the guilty feelings from your daughter’s emotional pleas. Remember why you made the choice you did. Children will naturally beg for all sorts of things that are not healthy for them. As parents, it’s our job to make the hard choices to keep our kids safe and healthy.  This is a stark contrast to the way many of us were raised. Our safety and well-being (as children) was barely an afterthought, if at all.

Please be kind to yourself today. You are worthy.

  L2T

[looking4light113]

This must be very frustrating for you. I went NC with my BPD & NPD, for 3 years. Even though  these relatives technically broke the law, and we could have brought the Police in, they still refused to apologies, preferring to feud for 3 years rather than appologies. No chance of counselling if someone can't  accept they've done wrong. After reconnecting, they are now demanding apologies from us.
 
The story with our kids was easier, in that these two where physically knocking about their scapegoat and our kids had never liked their in-laws, they were understandably scared of them, as pretty much everyone is. But I sense in your case, it may not be as clear cut.

If your BPD won't apologies (as is the norm), do you think you can use strong boundaries to protect yourself and your children and maintain low contact to begin with ? If you never leave you kids alone with your BPD, how does she behave ? We found, our BPD and NPD tend to act badly, if they think no one is looking. So our boundary is they can see their BPD, but always with us present, and they (and we) will never see their NPD again (he’s violent). Could you see yourself moving to some compromise at some point ? How much of the bad BPD behaviour have your kids observed ?

First thank you for the response. Around the kids my mom will shame them, question my parenting, be condescending towards them and me. I can only imagine what she says behind my back. We have decided to not allow her alone with them. My oldest daughter is 5 and she has asked why my mom and I were talking “mean” to each other. My mom was raising her voice, she calls it being passionate and says I am babying my kids by asking her to tone it down around them. I ask my kids to not use a disrespectful tone to me so then when my mom speaks to me that way they are confused.

[looking4light113]

I went to therapy yesterday and discussed this. My therapist said I should just contact my mom to see if she has time and wants to see the kids. She said this is not between my children and her but my husband and her and I. I do think I need to protect the kids from her. My therapist agrees she shouldn’t be alone with them. I was thinking of emailing my mom and asking her if she would like to meet at a park to see the kids. My husband doesn’t want me going to her house but rather a public place where there are others to witness if she gets out of line. I was thinking of feeling her we only have an hour and having somewhere to be afterwards. I’m thinking of saying something beforehand like “please don’t mention next visits with the kids, let’s see how this goes”. In the last few months after she exploded on my husband a couple of times already, she asked me in front of the kids if she could have them over for a sleep over. And then I’m the bad guy when they ask and I say no.

[HappyChappy]

We have decided to not allow her alone with them.

Totally reasonable request and boundaries given the behavior. My sister husband and I both don’t allow our kids to be alone with their BPD gran. Shame a BPD will never accept that. When my kids were 5, all they picked up was that our BPD was being mean to one of them (scapegoating). When my daughter got to 14, she actually said “Why do you keep seeing your mum when she so mean to you ?” My Therapist said the same thing. Now are kids are old enough, they  have decided they don't  want to see their BPD gran, due to her bad behaviour. If only I'd had that choice, if only.
 

My husband doesn’t want me going to her house but rather a public place where there are others to witness if she gets out of line.

This is an excellent way of tempering a BPD. I note my BPD feels more empowered and hence likely to be disrespectfully under her own roof. The more strangers that are present, the less likely she was to be difficult.

You mentioned asking your BPD “Please don’t... .”. I know my BPD would make a mental note and do more not less, just to get a rise. For example, my BPD would offer some second hand rubbish to all her kids. Then tell each of us she sold it, just to wind us up. So now we all say, don't want it, and she gives it to one of us and tells the rest.

With my BPD,  I would say “If you do this... .then we will leave immeaditly, no questions.” then she would do it, we would leave, and next time she wouldn't do it. Now when I use that term, she will just push towards the boundary rather than jump over it. Not dissimilar to an cheeky 8 year old. But I sense you have a good feel for this. I struggled to find a Therapist that understood BPD, so found this forum good for the BPD specifics, and the T good for CBT. I hope this helps and it does sound like you are doing the right thing.