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Author Topic: My experience with recovered BPD husband and my own PTSD  (Read 582 times)
Highlander
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« on: August 02, 2018, 01:22:48 AM »

This post was split from the following thread, as it is a good topic for separate discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327625.msg12987994#msg12987994

Hi Again Harri,

Thanks for your supportive post.  

Excerpt
How do they define recovery?  4 out of 9 traits?

I will give my experience with dx and recovery.

1st assessment (2010): during 6 weeks of hospitalisation after his attempt on his life.  They led DH to believe that his problem was only depression and alcohol.  At the time, I was begging for input into his assessment and diagnosis but was refused to sit in the room, regarded only as a GF and as much as I tried, they refused to talk to me at all.  Years later we found out that they had written down 'BPD traits' but they didn't tell us about that!

2nd assessment (2011): In a different state and hospital, I was still only DH's 'GF'.  But instead the mental health specialists embraced my input and pulled me aside to question me (felt more like interrogation).  Conclusion: full blown BPD.  

3rd (2012) and 4th assessment (2013):
 Again, we had moved to a different region.  We were then married and I was allowed to stay with my DH during the assessment and at times, asked for input. Again full BPD diagnosis's.

I guess what I'm saying is that the last 3 assessments recognised that the loved ones of pwBPD, usually cop the full brunt of BPD traits and I was able to help them to get the full picture.

H had all 9 traits.  All 8 were regular but the ninth (disassociation) was only ever there during episodes of alcohol induced psychosis's.

Nowadays  H has 3 traits:

The first: Is the only trait he expresses on a daily/regular basis and that's depression.

The secondSplitting.  About once every few months but as discussed on this thread previously, I quickly help him to see the grey.

The third - change of appearance.  But this could also be attributed to being raised as a cowboy,  became a musician, then worked as a deep sea fisherman and we both met volunteering for care work for Indigenous Elders.  At times, he has a full beard and long hair, or I could wake the following day after going to sleep earlier than him only to see a man with a moustache cowboy look or a punk Mohawk  , or a metal head look and at times dreadlocks appear, stay a while and are then cut off.  His specialists don't see any harm in him expressing himself and he's certainly not hurting anyone. His BPD past of changing his identity/profession often, will live with us forever and it is now just who he is.

All 6 of DH's other traits have completely disappeared.  He still fears abandonment but I have provided our story below and seeing both his parents stabbed him in the back in 2016, this fear is very real and not imaginary.

However, if DH had none of the above and instead 3 of some of the extreme traits such as:

-self harm,
-extreme mood swings, &
-disassociation

I can only conclude he would seriously be considered as a very unwell human being and BPD or at least BPD traits should surely be noted and BPD treatment seriously recommended.  Of course, I am no specialist, just my opinion.

Excerpt
I would like to read your story.

Ok Long story short:

-I am 43 and was told last Friday I can not have any children,

-my 30's was spent with DH's BPD – not a nice environment to even consider bringing a child into the world so we didn't try.  

-Age 40 after ensuring that DH had fully recovered and with encouragement from all DH's T's and doctors, we conceived my first child.  However, our boy was still born and I was told to try again the following year and that it would really be my last chance at trying.

-Age 41.  My SIL passed, leaving behind a 2½ yr old orphaned girl.  That year was spent trying to fight for custody of our niece, tackling gaslighting from BPD/NPD MIL as well as NPD FIL's allegations and perjury to the courts.   Even though we were told we were going to win, we pulled out, due to lack of funds due to gaslighting from MIL.  Long Story but basically she pulled the plug on us staying in her home.  We own our own home but it was too far a way for the courts to be satisfied for a small child to regularly travel and seeing we had interim custody of our niece every 3rd week leading up to the hearing (we had to continue with our bond with her), we had no choice but to stay with her so when she kicked me out, it meant we could no longer afford accommodation, thus the court case ended then.  H lives with the fact that his mother effectively handed her granddaughter over to her drunken ex-husband whom she watched abuse both of her children for 2 decades and why?  Bc I offered to wood cart !  A BPD/NPD MIL's gas lighting does not necessarily need to make any sense doesn't it!

Now we are looking at 'fostering to adopt' children.  H's mental health files are going to be brought out in the open.  Question now is:  

Will the foster children assessors believe DH's psychiatrist, psychologist and GP – that he has truly recovered and is no risk to children?  or

Will they scan the internet and come to the believe the many reports that say that H will suffer from BPD for the rest of his life and is therefore a trauma risk for any child in our care?

I may need to start a new post asking if anyone has links to medical research that can prove BPD is completely recoverable to help in our case for fostering!
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Highlander
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2018, 03:10:38 AM »

Hi JNChell,

Thank you for your very kind words.  I wish I could spend more time here.  I come and go a bit.  Lately I've come back probably after the news I received last Friday about not being able to conceive.   But given my last post here, its not surprising I am very, very angry at my IL's.  This is why I responded to your post.  I understand this anger and although I don't have CPTSD like yourself and my DH, I have been dx with PTSD as a result of all this.

If I hadn't have offered to wood cart, could we have proceeded to the full hearing and my niece would be in our care (we were told we were going to win)?  Or had we chosen NOT to spend 8 months fighting for her in the year I was 41, could I have conceived my own child?  My MIL was even the person who triggered my DH's 2010 BPD psychosis leading to the attempt on his life which led to several years of intense BPD self harm.  If any of these events had not happened, could I have conceived when I was much younger? 

My MIL then spent years poisoning my SIL to somehow to believe I gave her brother the childhood disorder of BPD, which is why she didn't make arrangements for her orphaned child to live with us even though she suffered from a heart condition.  We wanted my SIL to know the truth but never told her in fear it would create more turmoil in the family. 

What if she had known the truth and made her wishes clear for us to care for her second child?  A few months before my MIL created this lie, she asked us to care for her first child.  SHe only had one at the time and she adored me, always called me "Sis".  Her first born had a known father but he was looking at jail time so she approached us about caring for our nephew in the event she passed and his father was in jail.  She'd be rolling in her grave now if she knew her drunk of a father is raising her little girl.

Reason why I'm not here much is that I'm also a smoker and reliving my story doesn't help my lungs much.  I know I have my inlaws to thank for the stress but I seriously need to kick that one.  I have thought about writing a book but am worried I'd kill myself over the smokes just to get it done.

Excerpt
I feel like this is becoming a societal issue (all PD’s). How can this epidemic be nipped in the bud? It can’t. It’s become an outbreak. It can no longer be contained. Our youth are being fueled with narcissism.

I couldn't agree more.  Much more can be done to stop this epidemic, if only professionals out there knew about PD's and how they are contracted.  BPD is often discriminated against by many professional who know nothing or little about it.   For instance in my experience the following occured:

POLICE - Once DH was having a BPD 'moment'.  I called 000.  When the police came to the door, I said, “Please go easy on him, he has BPD”.  One of the officers response was demoralising and his voice sarcastic when he turned to DH and said “What is that?  You some sort of schizophrenic”.  Not the right thing to say to a pwBPD in distress!  Next day, I marched down to the police station reporting it, demanding that the local police station have a BPD awareness workshop or debriefing for all their officers.  Next 000 call out, both of the police officers knew what BPD was and were much more sympathetic towards my DH.

* the following statement has a trigger warning of self harm*

JUDGES - After SIL passed, we took immediate care of our niece and had been caring for her for 5 weeks after MIL and FIL (divorced) had told us they had no intention to care for her and were happy for us to.  All of a sudden, NPD FIL changed his mind but didn't tell us.  Instead, he went to the court and with no evidence said we had stolen our niece from HIS care! He signed a 'child abuse, child at risk' form against his own son (DH) noting that DH had stabbed himself in the chest, leaving out the following very important facts:  that that self harm incident had occurred 6 years prior and since then DH had been diagnosed with BPD, which he'd worked hard to completely recover from several years before the present.

The judge signed an ex-parte order (secret order) for the federal police come to our home to hand the child over to the FIL meaning we had no chance to either know that the matter was before the courts, nor to respond to FIL's uncorroborated allegations.   It is really starting to sound like a Hollywood movie now isn't it? 

With the court orders in FIL's hand, he then took 10 days to pick the child up from our house because he had lost his car licence, his vehicle was unregistered and he had no official home to live in.  Having spent 10 days to find a friend to drive him to our home, it was obvious that FIL knew the child was safe in our care but had used the court system's 'secret' (ex-parte) process that is only there for emergencies to gain immediate custody, against us  giving us no chance to defend ourselves.   

We were later told that the court could have given us our legal right to respond.  Even if we had been given 5 days to respond, we could have arrived with all texts, fb messages, receipts etc to show we had been caring for the child and had not 'kidnapped' her as well as doctors reports to state that DH's mental health was no risk to the child bc DH had made a full recovery. 

Additionally, if a judge knew anything about BPD and entertained the idea that in this case, BPD may well be in play and that although not all, but in many cases there is large correlation between a person's self harm and their childhood exposure to abusive and invalidating parenting to a child contracting BPD, a judge may well be wary of handing a 2 ½ year old child over to a man, whom may well have failed in his parenting duties in the past by contributing to his own son's life threatening condition. 

If we had been given a chance to respond with our evidence that NPD FIL had committed extensive perjury, we would no doubt have been allowed to retain custody of the child at least until a hearing of up to 1-2 years later.  And my FIL's history of being unable to manage money would have meant that he likely wouldn't have travelled the distance to keep the bond with the small child and he would have likely given up. 

But instead my FIL obtained these rights and we had to jump through hoops to retain our bond with the 2 1/2 year old, traveling 1500km every 3 weeks and staying with BPD/NPD MIL during that third week.  Ironically, we lived far away from both the IL's bc DH's therapists had advised it all those years ago when DH did have BPD, that we should buy a house as well and truly as far away from the IL's as possible but this decision was now not really working in our favour during the court case. 

All the while we had no financial support to care for the child and NPD FIL got it all because he had 66.6% custody and us only 33.3%.  We later found out if we had 35% custody, at least we could have had some assistance.

FIL also received free legal aid bc he had blown a payout of $220K at his pub over the previous 4 years and even though we were 'considered' cash poor, we couldn't get it.

If my niece contracts BPD in the future, then it would be bc a judge knew nothing about BPD.  If we had the chance to raise her, we would have given her unconditional love and allowed her to express her emotions effectively. I fought hard and got a Pro Bono Barrister willing to fight for free, we only needed to find $8K for her costs.  We scraped the bottom of the barrel to find that but had no more for accommodation costs while we cared for her in the IL's region.

The courts seemed more interested in DH's confirmed BPD and not for a man who is clearly narcissistic enough to lie against his own son and believed that he would do a better job raising a child on his own (hasn't had a long term relationships since the divorce from DH's mother 20 years before) and whom had several operations for stents in his heart region, is a heavy drinker and smoker and smokes drugs than a loving and much younger couple such as ourselves.

It was interesting when our Pro Bono Barrister said to DH after reading through all of our hard evidence “How can a father lie through his teeth about you!  His own son?  Clearly he is not good parent material for a 2 ½ year old child”.  DH said “My father is a sick man.  He is a narcissist”.  But without FIL getting a psychological assessment, it is only speculation and even if he did, pwNPD can truly play therapists.  Yet DH's efforts to seek help were documented and subpoenaed putting us in the the disadvantage.


FOSTERING.  This is going to be interesting for us. I have called them and informed them that DH used to have BPD but is now recovered and asked if there's any chance of fostering children and they said “Yes.  If his condition is now stabilised”.  I informed them of the reports made for the court case by his doctors stating that they see no reason why DH  shouldn't care for a young child and they told me that they will need to look through his records but there is plenty of hope.   

We went to a 2 day introduction course for fostering.  There were so many stories about children being sent back to their birth parents who are clearly toxic people but if they have food in the fridge etc that's OK.  Once they've read through DH's mental history reports, could the decline us even though he is clearly recovered and have his doctors (including his psychiatrist) to back him up whilst at the same time they admit that the system puts children in the care of people with mental illnesses that can seriously do children harm.

If I think I am angry now, can you imagine if I find out, I can not even raise a child because of my DH's previous BPD diagnosis, I think I will be ropeable!

After finding out about BPD, DH and I often watch the news and see things like a police shooting a mental person yielding a knife noting that they probably needed to use validating techniques instead of aggression, or the many double homicides out there that could very well have been BPD related.

BPD awareness has come such a long way than when I first found out about it in 2011. I can only hope that one day, the general population and professionals have a better understanding of PD's otherwise more children will be placed in the care of toxic people that could potentially give them BPD, thus increasing pwBPD in the population.  I have no doubt that my hopeful future in the fostering system will no doubt put me into contact with natural parents with BPD/NPD/ASPD.  At least I know what to look out for in their children and how to care for them.  Hopefully, all this hell we've been through will be well worth it and there are little children out there that were meant to meet us one day.

PS Sorry for the long Post but both yourself and Harri did ask my story.
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JNChell
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Relationship status: Dissolved
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2018, 08:34:39 PM »

Hello again, Highlander.

But given my last post here, its not surprising I am very, very angry at my IL's.

I understand this. They damaged the man that you love, and took a child from the two of you out of disordered spite. They damaged you in the process. You have every right to be angry. Bless you for keeping it real through the storm.

If you and your husband are approved to foster, I’d imagine that that would be some real leverage in gaining custody of your niece. Maybe?

Your experience with the law is very disturbing. I’m with you on educating our officers on this stuff. Unfortunately, the mental health system has gone to pot. It’s jail or prison with no therapy. I imagine that many people with BPD along with PTSD are further traumatized by their punishments. Just like they were as a child. C-PTSD is because of imprisonment. Yet, the abused have to live by the same standards as the citizens that weren’t abused. A paradigm shift needs to happen.

With the shifting of the times, judges should have extensive education in psychology. It has become far to easy for them to lean on their law books. They are black and white. Just like the disorders.




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Harri
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2018, 10:12:06 PM »

Yes, we did ask for your story and I want to say thank you for sharing it here.  I am so sorry for your recent news Highlander.  I never wanted kids but when I found out I couldn't, I still grieved.  I am glad you are considering other options and I hope the system is able to work in your favor in terms of your husbands recovery.

You have been through a lot over the last decade or so with so many losses and battles.  I am so sorry.

Excerpt
I have no doubt that my hopeful future in the fostering system will no doubt put me into contact with natural parents with BPD/NPD/ASPD.  At least I know what to look out for in their children and how to care for them.  Hopefully, all this hell we've been through will be well worth it and there are little children out there that were meant to meet us one day.
I think it is wonderful that you want to help these kids.  Your knowledge and experience will benefit them.  Remember, having just one person be a validating source of unconditional love can and often does make a huge difference for the kids.

As you tell your story, you sound tired but determined, fierce and strong.  I understand your intense dislike for your in-laws.  I can't imagine feeling any other way with them given what they have done.

Please keep us posted on your story and how you are holding up.  We can support you too.
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Highlander
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2018, 07:13:40 PM »

Thank You both again Harri and JCNell,

Excerpt
If you and your husband are approved to foster, I’d imagine that that would be some real leverage in gaining custody of your niece. Maybe?

I'm afraid FIL has full custody now and here in Australia, even if we won the lottery, we could not re-open the case, unless he dies or our niece ends up in the foster system. 

Excerpt
I’m with you on educating our officers on this stuff. Unfortunately, the mental health system has gone to pot. It’s jail or prison with no therapy. I imagine that many people with BPD along with PTSD are further traumatized by their punishments. Just like they were as a child. C-PTSD is because of imprisonment. Yet, the abused have to live by the same standards as the citizens that weren’t abused. A paradigm shift needs to happen.

I read somewhere (can't find where, but it is believable) that the current statistics of pwBPD are 75% woman and only 25% men may be inaccurate and that if a study on men in the prison system were included in BPD studies, the 25% statistic could be way higher.

Excerpt
With the shifting of the times, judges should have extensive education in psychology. It has become far to easy for them to lean on their law books. They are black and white. Just like the disorders.

In our court case we were told that it would be greatly beneficial to pay for a clinical psychologist to be subpoened in order to describe to the judge what BPD was, how it is possible to recover and the link with FIL's parenting to DH's own dx.   Even if we did get to the final hearing we knew, we could ill afford to pay for such a professional for the 3 day hearing.   

I agree, they should have a extensive knowledge of psychology, but when doctors can't even get it right!  For Instance:  MY DH and I saw a GP after his first BPD dx.  Doc says to DH “Is wife a control freak”.  DH “No”.  “Well” GP says, “You must have BiPolar, because if it was BPD there's no way your wife would have stayed with you for so long”.  So I hope the judges got the RIGHT extensive education!

Excerpt
Remember, having just one person be a validating source of unconditional love can and often does make a huge difference for the kids.

I often wonder how DH could not only recover from BPD but also recover so quickly.  I believe its for 3 reasons:

1/ He had remorse, no NPD traits and was 'low functioning',
2/ DH has a very high intelligence, but also
3/  During childhood, DH spent a lot of time with his Grandfather, the only person in his life that loved him unconditionally.  Unfortunately he passed when DH was a young adult.

Thank you both for your support and I'll be sure to keep updated over our application for fostering.  At the moment we are working hard to renovate the house up to 'Fostering standards' after running out of much needed money from the court case two years ago.

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