It seems we're on our way to divorce

[Nixie_3]

I think I must still be in the denial stage. I have separated (physically, not legally) from my BPDh. There have been a couple times before when I have stayed with my parents, but this feels final. We had been going to therapy, but I feel like I haven't seen any change, he just has been grasping more desperately for what he perceives to be signs of my love. I feel like I've been throwing my love down a black hole fore three years. I had left and come back for a week and the whole week was excruciating, fighting all the time. The reason I actually left thursday is I guess I had enough of his manipulation and just nothing seems to change. I was leaving to go to my weekly riding lesson which I do for self care and he started a fight over it which I tried to defuse and say I love you and I'll be back later, but he threatened to let my dogs out to "roam the streets" and even let one out of her kennel and made to go for the door. I just have such a hard time understanding how a man who claims to love me would try emotionally blackmail me like that just to get his way. He tells me lots of wonderful things and we had a wonderful dream of the future that we shared and I wholeheartedly wanted with him (ok, still want, but I'm working on that), but I have to admit that his actions do not show that this is possible. He goes to therapy but no internal work has been done. I think he still finds it to painful to really look at how his actions push loved ones away. He can admit it, but I don't feel like he really processes it in any way that can lead to change.
   I desperately wish it could be different. I keep wanting to call him and ask how he is even though I'm the one who left. I miss him, even though he has been so cruel and controlling at times. Of course he has also been wonderfully caring and sweet, but I feel like I walk on egg shells and can't really be myself. Yet, I don't let myself cry in front of others and I feel like part of that is because I really want him to be the one to comfort me. None of this makes sense. Ican't believe this is happening, I really believed we would grow old together.  T
  The night I left he texted me he was moving all of my things into the shed and changing the locks because he doesn't want anyone in "his" house, and not to contact him except through a lawyer. On the one hand no contact might be good, but it feels so cruel. I am his wife and have been by his side for three years and I feel just cast away.I know it comes from his intense feelings that he can't deal with but it still feels so cruel. And yet, part of me still hopes for a message from him saying he's really willing to try to make this work and determined to seek help on his own, and will I please wait until he can show me he can really be the husband I thought I married. A foolish dream I know.

[pearlsw]

Hi Nixie_3,

I can relate to a lot of the pain you are describing here. I'm sure many of us here do.

I know this is the Conflicted board, and the focus is not on the tools, but you mention you are in therapy and hoping (still) for change. Have you tried any of the tools as another piece of your efforts? Is that something that you could (or would want to) add in to your process?

sincerely, pearl.

[Nixie_3]

I've read some other threads in this section and it does sound like these feelings are common. There are things that I could do, I suppose, but I don't think it would make a difference at this point. He does attend therapy, but it's couples therapy, he seems to avoid individual therapy that could really help him. He's controlling and manipulative when he doesn't get his way and I feel like I have been the one making all the real efforts to save our marriage. I have grown a bit distant in the last month or so, but that was after trying for so long it feels like to make this work. I have to realize that I can't make it work on my own and I can't tolerate the continued abusive behavior. I do love him and I miss him so much and it's only been two and a half days, but unless this causes him to really wake up and intensely desire to address his BPD then we have to be done. Our counselor gave me such hope when he spoke of BPD being treatable and many people having a great reduction in symptoms, and I understand that it would be a process of indeterminate length, but I have not seen changes. In fact, his behaviors have gotten worse in the last month and a half. I so very wish it could be different, I expected to spend the rest of my life with this man, to have a family with. I keep questioning myself, if I made the wrong decision, if I should make an appointment with the counselor we see and ask if I made the wrong decision. This is the longest I've ever gone without speaking to him and I keep wanting to call him or call his mom to see how he's doing. I keep thinking of him letting the dog out to keep myself from calling, it barely works.

[pearlsw]

Hi Nixie_3,

Thank you for sharing more about your thoughts and feelings about your situation. It helps to make it more understandable!

Would you say you are more conflicted or do you really feel ready to detach? I was wavering myself today between posting here or on the Conflicted board. While there is only a small chance I'd stay with my SO, parts of my story are similar to yours, I was not quite ready to post here I decided. For today at least.

Would you like to brainstorm more strategies with all of us to keep yourself from calling him although you miss him?

with compassion, pearl.

pearl.

[Nixie_3]

I'm not sure actually. When I left, I was sure I was ready to detach, but now I feel as though my decision was affected by some outside pressures. My mom is very supportive and loving, but I felt she was disappointed that I was staying with him after all the mistreatment. And then he was rude in front of my brother, and even though he didn't pressure me, I felt he too would be disappointed in me if I stayed. I spoke to my counselor after and she never pressured but said things like can you honestly tell me any changes he has made to improve the relationship or show he really cares about your feelings? No, I couldn't. I know this relationship has been very unhealthy, but I just worry that I'm giving up when it could get better. The counselor we were seeing together just gave me such hope, but it seems like my BPDh had been getting worse lately. I just miss him so much. It's so hard to focus on work when all I want to do is go see him. And it seems like just about everything reminds me of him. I'm planning on either going to the barn to hang out with the horses tomorrow or going on a very long bike ride, hopefully that will keep me from calling, but I am very tempted to make an appointment with our counselor still and ask him if he really believed my SO was on the road to making changes, it's just he's not covered by our insurance and I've been paying out of pocket every time we went. I just wish he didn't have this illness, I love him, I just wish he could love me the way I deserve and accept my love in return.

[starlet564]

I can commiserate Nixie_3.  While our situations are somewhat different, there very similar.  I'm on the road to divorce as well after being married a little over a month.  We've been together for a total of 3 years. 

I think focusing on your self-care is the most important thing.  Keep your mind busy and clear.  I, too, have been ready to detach and have shared my horror stories with others.  I feel they would be disappointed in me if I veer from my decision.  Then, when uBPDh, comes to me very lucid, clear, apologetic and loving, I want to forget about the horrible verbal, emotional and psychological abuse.  I love him.  I rethink my decision as being affected by some outside pressure and a wrong one.  I don't want him to think I'm doing what everyone else has done to him in his life - abandon him.  I do want to help him, but I can't want it for him more than he can see it clearly and want it for himself.  I love him and I devastated and at a total loss. 

Like Pearl said, when you brainstorm and reread the list of grievances you have does it help you to stay away?  I began to make a list of the horrible, manipulative, controlling things he's said to be.  It's completely hypocritical to other loving things he has said, which is so painfully confusing.  What do I believe?  What do I trust?  However, it's that list that keeps me on my current path.  Would something like that help you? 

[pearlsw]

No, I couldn't. I know this relationship has been very unhealthy, but I just worry that I'm giving up when it could get better.

I just wish he didn't have this illness, I love him, I just wish he could love me the way I deserve and accept my love in return.

Hi Nixie_3,

Oh, my dear! I am so sorry! I wish this illness didn't exist too!   It feels like it is robbing me of someone very dear to me. He has done and said so many terrible things to me over the years, but I still want the best for him and I don't want any harm to come to him. It is beyond painful to have your love thrown back at you time and time again. I really meant for this to be forever and to watch it dissolving into nothing feels like watching something die.

I think that is a very important issue that you should focus on or you won't be at peace. Have you done all you can? With every relationship I've had I've hit that phase. Did I do enough to honor the promises we started off with? The breakups went much easier for me when I felt I had done all I possibly could.

I've always likened it to leaving a movie before the ending. I've never been able to leave even a moment too soon, though I am sure I overstayed a few relationships. It's hard to know at the time.

Yes, you have to separate out the pressures of others. I understand how bad it feels when it seems as if you are disappointing others. This is your life. These are your choices. Feel confident in that. Only you know what is best for you.

wishing you peace, pearl.

[WantToBeFree]

I'm so sorry you're going through this.  I can definitely relate to many of the things you said.  My uBPD H (soon to be ex, he should be served papers this week) sounds exactly like yours.  We've been separated since June (second time in a year) and he's been so nice all this time (though I know his game, its just to get back in the house, the niceness doesn't last) and I just told him yesterday he will be served soon.  Boom.  Mr. Nice Guy is gone.  He's threatening to fight for 50/50 custody of our D4 (he has barely given any effort in her 4 years to take care of her and spend time with her but now he's going to act like Father of the Year and fight for her), threatening to take the house that is in my name only and I paid off.

How long have you been together?  How long have you been married?  My h and I have been together for 11 and married for almost 8.  I'm so sorry you're hurting.  It's been so long for me, that I could barely wait to get out.  But I have gone through ups and downs... .even just this past winter I thought we could still make it work, and I got very invested in the idea of a future together and keeping my family together.  I even mentioned maybe renewing our vows in a few years... .and then as always, he showed me his true colors again.

I think the hardest part is we see the good side of them.  I KNOW my H can be a good person.  He can be so sweet, and funny, and romantic.  When he smiles, the whole room lights up and it just made me so happy to make him happy.  But he could also be so so cruel, and mean, and selfish, angry, dark, etc.  I often say the cruelest thing people like him do is make us fall in love with them, because without the nice side, oh how easy it would be to leave without looking back.  I liken his and others behavior to eating well and working out.  You KNOW you should eat well and exercise, and you know without it your body and health will suffer, and you even often want to eat well and exercise, but sometimes it just feels so good to let all that go and eat junk and lay on the couch.  My H knows he doesn't treat me well, he knows what he needs to do as a husband and father and on many levels I think HE wants to be able to be that man more than anyone.  But his natural tendency is to gravitate to being all those horrible things, and it just feels good to let go and be who he is, rather than work so hard to be the man he wants to be.

Just a quick note about what you said about him changing the locks.  You're married, it's your house too (at least in a legal sense of it being your residence, I don't know your situation about who owns it, etc).  He cannot change the locks without a court order.  I know this because I HAVE a court order to give me exclusive access to our house during the proceedings and I was allowed to change the locks because my H has been physically abusive to me, so I have reason to feel unsafe and need to protect myself.  I just wanted to let you know that, so if he does change the locks, legally he cannot and can get in trouble and you are allowed access to the house as long as there is no reason why you shouldn't as in my case.

Good luck to you.  Keep posting here, we all understand and it's a very safe place to vent and feel accepted.

[empath]

Hi Nixie_3, I thought my h and I were on our way to divorce, too, about 6 months ago. After all, he said he was set on it and wasn't changing his mind when he left; he even met with a lawyer. I knew at the time that he was having a fairly serious mental health crisis and that was the "best option" that he could think of.

Well, a couple of months of therapy and now he feels better and doesn't want a divorce.

I, on the other hand, feel "done" and sense that I've done all that I can to make things better. I still want the best for him, and I've come to realize that sometimes the best requires going through some pain. It took me a few years to come to the place where I am now, though.

[Nixie_3]

Thank you for your replies. We've been together for about four years and married for three. I've read some other threads and it's funny how similar experiences can be. My BPDh and I have been going back and forth as well. One of us will say this can't work, the other will agree and yet somehow we get back to talking as if we think it can work. Like Wednesday, I agreed to come get my things and leave him these concert tickets I had bought to a band he really likes, and it sounded pretty final to me. This time it was my fault, all yesterday I kept wanting to call him and meet him somewhere, I missed him so badly. However, I was didn't contact him. I went swimming and kept telling myself not to. I told myself it wasn't fair to give him false hope. Yet, this morning on the way to work, I texted him. Even though, I thought I shouldn't and as soon as I hit send, I regretted it. I said I was sorry for texting him, I just missed him and wanted to wish him a good day. I was quite confused by his reply which I read at lunch. He said he was sorry I feel like I shouldn't text him but that it "feels good not to have someone around who is tearing me down for who I am," and it's "messed up that would think it's a bad thing to reach out to [him] to express my feelings even though they don't include love." What? Where did he get they don't include love, I just wanted to wish him a good day which I wouldn't do if I didn't love him. And I feel really hurt by him saying was sounds like an accusation of me tearing him down. I know I shouldn't be surprised, any discussion of how BPD symptoms affect our marriage is considered by him to be tearing him down. It was really stupid to text him in the first place. It's just after we talked (again) as if this was over, I kept thinking of the good times and the thought of never being together again is just so heartbreaking for me to imagine.
   I'm confused because the therapist I see on my own says that it sounds like he's in the pre-contemplation stage of making a change and it doesn't sounds like he's made any real effort to change things and that he constantly manipulates me and tears me down to get me to come back. She's right. But, then I went and saw the therapist we see as a couple. I'm still not sure why. Part of me wanted him to understand things from my perspective so maybe he could help my H better for his future relationships. Part of me, I think wanted some magic answer: yes, you're doing the right thing or no, I PROMISE things can be fixed. And I don't understand what I want back. He seems at times to not really like me for me. Complains of my tattoos, my family, my introversion, my way of showing love... .He doesn't really try to understand my feelings when I try to communicate them the focus usually gets shifted back on him. Yes, he can be very sweet and we share many interests, but I'm just not convinced he loves the actual me. Whenever I leave my therapist, I'm so determined to leave this relationship, but then a couple days go by and I just miss him. Someone said BPD relationships are like a drug, and right now I feel like I agree because I don't understand at all. I don't understand why this is so very hard.

[Nixie_3]

Wow, maybe it won't be so hard to go through with divorce as I thought. Yesterday was a whole ton of nastiness from my BPDh I just can't even believe. Last we spoke I was going to pick up my dresser from our house after a riding lesson. Well, I get done with my lesson and I have missed calls from him and texts that go from reasonable to accusing me of playing games (by not answering I guess?) To saying that when I come get my things police need to be present which his mother (enabler) sent a text saying the same thing. I have never done anything to hurt this man and to be treated like this from not just him but also his mom is so hurtful.
 And I can't believe the just literal proof of how disordered he is right now to make up in his mind that I said I was not going to my lesson when I specifically did say I was going and then act like I'm playing games. I found a couple of old cards he game me that say things like he loves me so much and I'm so uplifting and he's lucky to be in my life and stuff like that and to have him painting such a nasty piture of me in his head right now is just so hurtful. He blocked me on his phone and sends nasty texts like saying I'm a selfish hag who will never find d anyone else and crap I understand this is all characteristic of the disorder, but I really loved him and had been still holding onto the timiest hope that the man I had planned on spending my life with still existed. Also, frustratingly I don't know how to block him. He has become so ugly, I can't see even a hint of the man I thought I had married and I am so frustrated with his mother for backing up his behavior. Forget them both

[mama-wolf]

Nixie, I'm so sorry things have gotten so nasty with your BPDh.  My stbx yelled all kinds of things at me from our back porch shortly before we finalized our separation, and it really shook me.  I suspect at least one or two neighbors could hear it, which is a little embarrassing but maybe also kind of good so that they know I'm not the unstable one.   But still, it was behavior that had never happened before in our 15 years together, except for one other incident last Fall when she yelled in my face in public in front of our kids.  The behavior can be so shocking and unexpected coming from someone we have loved, with whom we had envisioned spending a lifetime together.

It was the incident in the Fall that finally, finally prompted me to seriously start thinking about what could possibly be going on in our relationship.  It led me to seek therapy for myself and suggest that we seek a MC for the two of us, which ultimately led to my discovery of the BPD element.  I know the behavior is hurtful and maybe surprising (to say the least), but I hope that you can use it to guide you in the direction you need to go to make good decisions for yourself and your future.

As far as the behavior itself, I'm pretty sure the most recent yelling incident I experienced was triggered by the reality that our separation was actually moving forward, and her feelings of hurt/betrayal that she blamed me for.  I can only guess that your BPDh may be struggling similarly.  Doesn't hurt any less... .especially if he is recruiting others like his mom... .but I know it has helped me to constantly remind myself that it's more about the disorder and less personal than it really feels.  Reading the book Splitting by Bill Eddy also helped me a lot with navigating divorce with a pwBPD.

He seems at times to not really like me for me. Complains of my tattoos, my family, my introversion, my way of showing love... .He doesn't really try to understand my feelings when I try to communicate them the focus usually gets shifted back on him. Yes, he can be very sweet and we share many interests, but I'm just not convinced he loves the actual me.

I had a very similar experience that I will not go into detail here.  It's very important to pay attention to this feeling, because the danger here is that you start to lose the actual you in order to please him and/or in order to avoid the constant conflict.  This happened to me over the course of many years... .it was subtle, gradual, and went by undetected for far too long.  Now I'm spending a lot of time and energy just trying to find what's left of "me," recover as much of her as I can of her, and rebuild the rest.  All the while trying to ignore and get rid of this mini-uBPDw in my head that keeps beating me up for anything and everything I try to do for myself.

Whenever I leave my therapist, I'm so determined to leave this relationship, but then a couple days go by and I just miss him. Someone said BPD relationships are like a drug, and right now I feel like I agree because I don't understand at all. I don't understand why this is so very hard.

I started reading The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson recently.  I discovered it through this board, and it goes into extremely helpful detail to understand what happens when we are abandoned by someone we love.  This applies regardless of whether you chose to leave the marriage or the other party did. 

As the person who ultimately told my uBPDw that we had to separate, I have struggled with identifying too strongly with being the "abandoner."  But the reality that my T helped remind me of is that I stuck with my marriage for years through the problems we were having, and in the end I still stuck with it for seven months beyond the realization that we should probably separate.  I had given it as much of a chance as I possibly could, to the detriment of my own mental and emotional well being.  Even if I am the one who finally took the first step to end the marriage, I am still experiencing the loss of that love and relationship with my stbx, and this book is very helpful in understanding the impact of that.  It might help you as well.

I hope things get more peaceful for you soon... .

mw

PS - As far as blocking... .I'm not sure what kind of phone you have, but if the person is stored as a contact in your phone I think there is typically some kind of blocking option listed with the other options (like Edit Contact, Delete Contact, etc.)... .maybe?

[Nixie_3]

Thank you for the reply, mama-wolf. I'm sorry you had to go through that, no one deserves to be yelled at, especially by a loved one. I think I will look into both those books. You are right about starting to lose yourself to please him. My mom was starting to make comments about asking me if I was trying to change who I was to make him happy and I guess I was, sadly. And you're probably right about his behavior being triggered by the reality of impending separation. I'm almost more angry at his mother, she is such an enabler. This morning I woke up to texts saying that if he overdoses on his drug of choice it's all my fault. Now, he probably is saying that just to be cruel, but I never can tell when he means what he says. So yes, I am a bit concerned, I texted him to please make an appointment with his therapist and then texted his mom that he sent me some concerning texts and could she please encourage him to see his therapist. She just ignores me. How can she be so blind to his behavior? I've seen how he has treated her in the past when he doesn't get what he wants (not till after we were married) so how can she act like he's normal? I'm sad that he goes through this, really, I wish he could understand it would have been so easy for us to have a loving relationship if when he needed something he could just ask instead of lashing out.

[mama-wolf]

This morning I woke up to texts saying that if he overdoses on his drug of choice it's all my fault. Now, he probably is saying that just to be cruel, but I never can tell when he means what he says.

  I feel the need to point out that this is emotional abuse.  He is using the threat of suicide to manipulate you into doing what he wants.  Please recognize this and know that you are not responsible for his actions.  Our pwBPD are responsible for taking care of their own mental health (including seeking help)... .we are responsible for establishing own healthy boundaries and staying true to them.

So yes, I am a bit concerned, I texted him to please make an appointment with his therapist and then texted his mom that he sent me some concerning texts and could she please encourage him to see his therapist. She just ignores me. How can she be so blind to his behavior?

Denial is a powerful thing, and sometimes it's easier to hang on to an opportunity to blame someone else for the problem than to look at what we may need to change in ourselves.  You have done your part by alerting her, and again you are not responsible for her choices or his.

I'm sad that he goes through this, really, I wish he could understand it would have been so easy for us to have a loving relationship if when he needed something he could just ask instead of lashing out.

Yes, there's a lot of sadness to go around in all of this.  So much could have been so different... .so much better.  The really, really hard part (for me at least) is finally letting go of that and recognizing there is an opportunity out there for happiness that does not involve my stbx.

Stay strong... .

mw

[SerendipityChild]

In fact, his behaviors have gotten worse in the last month and a half.

Hi Nixie_3... .perhaps the fact that you have been distant within the last month has something to do with his behavior getting worse? The abandonment fears growing and he could be panicking. Can you picture yourself with him 6 months from now and what do you see?

[Nixie_3]

Mama-wolf, you're right he was definitely saying that to be manipulative, and I even knew it at the time just like I know anything he does is his choice, but it's so hard to just let it go. I was worried all that day and then the next day, total flip. He's texting me to see if I want to buy from his family Tuesday horse I usually ride (which was his grandpa's) see nce supposedly they're going to sell him and he wanted to offer him to me first. Also, he offered to have his family rent their rental house to me "for the dogs" ay a very good rate. I'm very confused by the total flip, one day he's calling me literally "the worst person" and the next he's offering me stuff? I feel like it's some kind of ploy and I fear it works to some degree because I have found myself missing him so very much this week. I made myself write a list of things I miss and them answer them with unkomd/unhealthy things that went on in our relationship. That only helped to a degree.
Serendipity, I can't picture myself with him in 6 months because if I try it'll be either a fantasy of just the good test or a replay of all the bad times.  Neither of which I think is truly accurate.

[Nixie_3]

These last few days I've been missing my BPDh very much. O keep wanting  to call him, ask if maybe we could try counseling while separated and start again. I think I'm in the grieving point where you just keep thinking of all the good things. It's not that I don't remmt the bad but the good presses heavily on my mind and makes me wonder if I'm giving up on something that could be good again with anlot of work between the two of us but then I feel like I'm an idiot for thinking these things. He has not made any overtures that sounds d like he's ready to accept responsibility for his actions and fix things between us, in fact he's been pretty much the nastiest anyone has ever been to me and I don't know if I can't let go just because I love him or if part of it's the guilt of thinking of him on his own when we promised each other forever. I'm just feeling really confused and depressed right now and I had to write here or I would call him.

[SerendipityChild]

These last few days I've been missing my BPDh very much. O keep wanting  to call him, ask if maybe we could try counseling while separated and start again. I think I'm in the grieving point where you just keep thinking of all the good things. It's not that I don't remmt the bad but the good presses heavily on my mind and makes me wonder if I'm giving up on something that could be good again with anlot of work between the two of us but then I feel like I'm an idiot for thinking these things. He has not made any overtures that sounds d like he's ready to accept responsibility for his actions and fix things between us, in fact he's been pretty much the nastiest anyone has ever been to me and I don't know if I can't let go just because I love him or if part of it's the guilt of thinking of him on his own when we promised each other forever. I'm just feeling really confused and depressed right now and I had to write here or I would call him.

Hi Nixie_3
Hang in there. I, too, had those moments the first two months until I found this site. The pain too excruciating I wanted to not wake up each morning.  I have a feeling you want to revive the relationship. I worry that you might go through yet another recycling and trust that it only gets worse each time. His nastiness multiplied by ten, plus twenty. The longer the r/s the harder it is to break away. There are so many of us here for support and listen. To let you know you're not alone in this. Good luck on what ever you decide to do.

[mama-wolf]

I'm just feeling really confused and depressed right now and I had to write here or I would call him.

Nixie, I'm glad you reached out here!  My T has told me that it can help to get the feelings out, to write them down, so that when the next wave comes it is actually less intense.

It sounds like you may be in the withdrawal stage of abandonment (at least, a far is it's characterized in the book I previously referenced).  You miss the love you had, the attachment to another person.  Yes, you're grieving.  You're experiencing a loss, and it's OK to feel the things you're feeling.

It's a painful process.  Care to share more with us about what you're doing to get yourself through this time?  How are you focusing on yourself and your needs, and giving yourself the space you need to heal?

mw

[Nixie_3]

I joined the gym and try to go four times a week. That helps a little, but I still feel like I'm drowning in thoughts of him or something. I do see a therapist every other week and I plan to go on vacation with my family in a few weeks but I still feel so sad and worry that I'm giving up too soon. Though my therapist asks me questions about our relationship which make me realize while I'm there how one sided it was for the most part and I know I want something g better but I still just miss him. I'll have to look onto the other book you mentioned. Right now imt reading splitting.

[mama-wolf]

What about socially? We are meant to connect with others… So if you’re especially feeling the absence of him, are you able to spend a little time here and there with friends? This may help alleviate some of the pain, though understandably not all. Reaching out to friends was part of my T’s advice as I was going through the hardest parts of initial separation.  It helps cut down on the isolation, and also helped to get me out of my own head with people who could be a little more objective than my guilt ridden mind.