Figuring out how to bridge the gap.

[Depression = 72% of members]

My wife in December announced that she wanted space. It was after I had found that she had been having some sort of relationship with a doctor at her work. This isn't the first time this had happened, in fact 3 years prior she had done the same. Both incidents resulted in a pregnancy and abortion, but the first (that I know of) resulted in serious remorse and regret and her hospitalization (it was during that time that they said she had both Bipolar and BPD). Upon finding out about the first incident 3 years ago I had said I was done, but she had cut herself so significantly she had to be put on a 51/50. cutting and bulimia has been apart of her life since she was about 12. While she was gone we talked and I sought help and advice. Once she returned I forgave her and we moved on. This time however she had no remorse, although throughout the process she has broken down and wanted to make it work, until her new boyfriend came into the picture (this is the 5th or 6th guy since December, but the first that has wanted a relationship with her).

On top of my own issues and struggles with the situation we have 3 children. I have the kids the majority of the time (8 days straight and during her time off she comes to visit for 6) and she spends about half her free time with them. My oldest daughter is 10 and has now taken on her mother's body issues. She claims she is gross looking or fat. She also has the most strained relationship with her mother and if things continue this way I fear that it will quickly become and irreparable rift. My son, 8 has suddenly become more attached to his mother. Up until this point he has always been my mini, this isn't a bad thing, but I fear what her choices and life might do to that new bond and relationship. My youngest daughter at 6 has suddenly resorted to calling herself stupid, or claiming it's all her fault for any issue that arises. This is also a trait of my wife's and she has even started saying she should just kill herself in extreme cases, which shakes me to my core.

My wife has now cut all contact with me, very occasionally I might get a response, but it is less then a sentence and it doesn't matter what the reason I am contacting her for (mainly to do with our children). My goal here at the very least is to fix/create a friendly relationship where we can communicate about the children and possibly rebuild/build something new for whatever it is our future may hold.

Please feel free to ask any questions as I may appear all over the place and might have skipped some vital information.

[jroyal]

My wife in December announced that she wanted space. It was after I had found that she had been having some sort of relationship with a doctor at her work. This isn't the first time this had happened, in fact 3 years prior she had done the same. Both incidents resulted in a pregnancy and abortion, but the first (that I know of) resulted in serious remorse and regret and her hospitalization (it was during that time that they said she had both Bipolar and BPD). Upon finding out about the first incident 3 years ago I had said I was done, but she had cut herself so significantly she had to be put on a 51/50. cutting and bulimia has been apart of her life since she was about 12. While she was gone we talked and I sought help and advice. Once she returned I forgave her and we moved on. This time however she had no remorse, although throughout the process she has broken down and wanted to make it work, until her new boyfriend came into the picture (this is the 5th or 6th guy since December, but the first that has wanted a relationship with her).

On top of my own issues and struggles with the situation we have 3 children. I have the kids the majority of the time (8 days straight and during her time off she comes to visit for 6) and she spends about half her free time with them. My oldest daughter is 10 and has now taken on her mother's body issues. She claims she is gross looking or fat. She also has the most strained relationship with her mother and if things continue this way I fear that it will quickly become and irreparable rift. My son, 8 has suddenly become more attached to his mother. Up until this point he has always been my mini, this isn't a bad thing, but I fear what her choices and life might do to that new bond and relationship. My youngest daughter at 6 has suddenly resorted to calling herself stupid, or claiming it's all her fault for any issue that arises. This is also a trait of my wife's and she has even started saying she should just kill herself in extreme cases, which shakes me to my core.

My wife has now cut all contact with me, very occasionally I might get a response, but it is less then a sentence and it doesn't matter what the reason I am contacting her for (mainly to do with our children). My goal here at the very least is to fix/create a friendly relationship where we can communicate about the children and possibly rebuild/build something new for whatever it is our future may hold.

Please feel free to ask any questions as I may appear all over the place and might have skipped some vital information.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi jroyal,

This sounds so extremely painful and difficult. I am sorry the state of your relationship with the mother of your children has reached this point.

Are you just hoping to have her more involved in the parenting, or you are also hoping to have her back in some way for yourself?

Why do you think she has minimized the contact in this way?

wishing the best, pearl.

[jroyal]

In a perfect world I would fix my family and have it whole, but at the very least I need to have some kind of functioning relationship with her and she needs to have a better relationship with the children.

It could be a multitude of reasons. She has mentioned wanting a new life, to start over from scratch and desperately tries to hide/ignore her past. Also, the new boyfriend and I live in the same town and I know during this period we have fought a lot more and that is hard on her. Lastly I think she struggles with guilt and would like to avoid it at all costs.

[pearlsw]

In a perfect world I would fix my family and have it whole, but at the very least I need to have some kind of functioning relationship with her and she needs to have a better relationship with the children.

It could be a multitude of reasons. She has mentioned wanting a new life, to start over from scratch and desperately tries to hide/ignore her past. Also, the new boyfriend and I live in the same town and I know during this period we have fought a lot more and that is hard on her. Lastly I think she struggles with guilt and would like to avoid it at all costs.

Hi jroyal,

I wish you could have your perfect world!

For now, do you think there is a way to get her to have more contact with you? It is just short text messages? Is she alone with the kids when she comes to visit? Do you think you could get her to do some kind of activity with you and the kids (if you aren't already doing so)? Perhaps that could be a lower pressure way to spend time around each other?

Are either of you in therapy? You mentioned you are dealing with other personal issues as well. Is that something you want to mention more about?

warmly, pearl.

[jroyal]

She responds maybe once or twice a month at most. Doesn't seem to matter how I approach her. 90% of the time she spends with the children there is someone else there. Previously she had wanted to still do things together when it concerned the children, but now she has changed her mind on the subject and would rather not see or talk to me at all.

I currently see a therapist and throughout the process she has been open to one, but only lasts one session before she quits or gives up. As far as my issues I am working on bettering myself dillengently, for my childrens sake and my own. This includes my physical health, my mental health and taking new steps to be financial secure and comfortable, as well as looking at my past mistakes and making sure I have learned from them and will not repeat them again.

[pearlsw]

Hi jroyal,

I am sorry you are not getting the kind of contact you are needing at the moment. I know that must be terribly disappointing.

How do the kids handle their visits/contact with her? How do you feel about them seeing her?

Do you think proposing a way for all of you to spend together in public for a few hours, with others around, could work, or is that a far off dream?

May I ask what kinds of mistakes you feel you made? We also have a Learning board where people talk about learning from the relationship if you haven't been there yet.

with sympathy, pearl.

[jroyal]

The kids struggle with her due to her anger and general irritation, but it isn't all bad. They don't like being forced to stay at her boyfriends house and our oldest has now come to the point where she contemplates not seeing her.

I have tried to purpose such options, but she would rather do those things with her current boyfriend now or not at all.

I was pretty absent early on in our relationship and handled things poorly. Eventually I got help and back on track. Outside of that I lied numerous times and in general just did a poor job as a spouse and father. I'm proud and confident in the work I've done and the changes I've made, but her perception of me seems to be only poor. Most of the things she claims she resents are things she had forgiven me for before we got married. These are issues that occurred 6 years or longer ago.

[jroyal]

I've come to the conclusion that she has and intends to just erase me and never acknowledge me again. Ever since the split she has had another man in her life and though they come and go this new one seems permanent and she rather forget myself and her past exits.

[Learning2Thrive]

I've come to the conclusion that she has and intends to just erase me and never acknowledge me again. Ever since the split she has had another man in her life and though they come and go this new one seems permanent and she rather forget myself and her past exits.

  jroyal,

The key word above is “seems”. It’s hard to know what’s actually happening, and if past behavior is an indication of current and future behavior, nothing is what it seems.

You are doing the right thing by focusing and following through on your own healing and your relationship with your children. They need you to be healthy and strong.

What are you doing to take good care of yourself through this stressful time?

  L2T

[jroyal]

Very true. I have just been informed that she lost her place to live again and there seems to be risk of her losing her job. So, I really have no clue as to what is going on, though she keeps up certain appearances well. Just fighting the bad feelings and trying not to get discouraged.

I attend counseling and have spent sometime creating a support system among friends and family. I still struggle with felling lonely at times and have been striving to improve myself both physically and mentally and to be open to new people coming into my life.

[jroyal]

I also worry extensively about her. She heavily abused alcohol and she backed off from it due to medical issues, but I know she now has access to and carries around prescription meds. from her mothers back surgery.

[Learning2Thrive]

I attend counseling and have spent sometime creating a support system among friends and family. I still struggle with felling lonely at times and have been striving to improve myself both physically and mentally and to be open to new people coming into my life.

This is very important, jroyal. Whether things work out with her or not, the BEST thing you can do is become your healthiest, best self. Being your best self will help you live your best life as well as bring out the best in others.

Please keep posting. We’re all here to support each other. You are not alone.

L2T

[jroyal]

Thanks. She called today, first time we talked in a long while. She thought it was the kids first day at school, it wasn't though... .and all in all it wasn't the best conversation, but I was able to keep my side in check.

I struggle with being a doormat with her, I need better boundaries and ways to express them without triggering her.

[pearlsw]

Thanks. She called today, first time we talked in a long while. She thought it was the kids first day at school, it wasn't though... .and all in all it wasn't the best conversation, but I was able to keep my side in check.

I struggle with being a doormat with her, I need better boundaries and ways to express them without triggering her.

Hi jroyal,

What about the conversation made you feel as if you were being a doormat?

What kind of boundaries are you missing?

How did she get triggered, if so, during the conversation?

take care, pearl.

[jroyal]

A lot of times I immediately start apologizing and giving complete control to her. Whatever she needs or wants, I internally feel very weak and needy.

I feel like I'm a trigger, just being me. Beyond that anything to do with my family and this time around she got upset that I allowed the kids to get temporary color in their hair (it lasted for a day).

[pearlsw]

A lot of times I immediately start apologizing and giving complete control to her. Whatever she needs or wants, I internally feel very weak and needy.

I feel like I'm a trigger, just being me. Beyond that anything to do with my family and this time around she got upset that I allowed the kids to get temporary color in their hair (it lasted for a day).

Hi jroyal,

Hmmm. Okay. How about reading up validation so you can say nice things to her, speak in a nice way, but not apologize when apologies are not in order?

When an apology is order that is one thing, but we don't want to get into a place of apologizing for our own existence.

Study up on these (if you like) and it should give you some new ideas about how to speak with her:


Validation

SET

I know you aren't speaking much to each other so you must feel a lot of pressure in these conversations. Is that right?

After you look at those tools, if you are up for it, come back and let's talk about how you might have spoken to her differently if you had more practice with them beforehand.

Don't be hard on yourself for not saying the right thing, it's not easy to find the better things to say, but it's worth a try! I make mistakes all the time and just keep trying, that's all you can do!

No worries! I go back to these all the time to relearn them over and over! It is not intuitive, but it can make a difference. It's like yoga, you have to practice!

warmly, pearl.

[jroyal]

Pressure and then some... .I am constantly on edge when she is in town, let alone when I talk to her. I have no clue what's gonna happen, now it appears as though she is moving back to town after losing her home and job. My kids don't want to spend more time with her, they want less, but I fear she is gonna try and fight for more, even though she wouldn't utilize it.

I'll take a look and thanks for the reference.

[jroyal]

Part of me feels pretty hopeless in the situation. Part of me still clings to the idea of maybe I can fix it... .all of me though is desperate and hurting.

[jroyal]

Just got off the phone with my estranged wife... .she has nothing but contempt and hatred for me. Explained she wishes I didn't exist and wants to continue pretending that I don't. She now has moved back to town to live with her boyfriend. Her words and actions really effected me tonight. The idea she hates me is hard to understand and the way she treats me is baffling.

[pearlsw]

Just got off the phone with my estranged wife... .she has nothing but contempt and hatred for me. Explained she wishes I didn't exist and wants to continue pretending that I don't. She now has moved back to town to live with her boyfriend. Her words and actions really effected me tonight. The idea she hates me is hard to understand and the way she treats me is baffling.

Hi jroyal,

I am so sorry you heard such unkind words from her. Try to remember that all of this hate and rage is related to a mental illness, the workings of someone with serious cognitive distortions. 

So you are expecting she will battle over the kids? How old are the kids, will they be of age to express their preferences in court? Do you have access to any therapy for them to help them cope with their mother's behavior? Sounds like they might need some support if they are feeling so negative towards her.

I know it feels very baffling at times. My SO made many divorce threats, then would beg me to stay with him. It is hard to know which version of reality I am living in sometimes... .until I remember he is distorted and I must stay grounded.

Please reread the lessons on the right side of the board about "Understanding your partner's behaviors." I think you can't read this stuff too many times! It will help refresh your memory about what you are really dealing with here.

In terms of your own well-being, even with all of this going on, is there something you could do this week to restore your spirits a bit? Something nice you and the kids can do together perhaps?

take care, pearl.

[jroyal]

Things got worse... .and I got angry finally. I'm not sure what she intends, but I know she is threatening to take them and attacking me at every opportunity. My kids are 10, 8 and 6. The age in California is 12, but their feelings may still be considered by a mediator or judge. I have therapy starting soon for them. Thanks for the recommendations and assistance, I read the sections again and although they make sense her attacks, her threats and her retaliation against me is damaging my family and most of all our children.

[jroyal]

Today I served her with divorce papers... .

[jroyal]

I still can't help but love my wife and wish there was a better way. I didn't want to file, but I did, cause I felt hopeless, used and that I was being taken advantage of. I know that with time I will be okay, but this isn't the life I wanted for my children and I and for her. I wish there was a way for us to build something new, for understanding and appreciation, for me to be heard.