First post, things are turbulent and I'm lost.

[PurpleFlower]

Hello.

My SO hasn't been clinically diagnosed with borderline but the symptoms align very well, and she thinks herself that she has it. Abandonment issues, instability in her self image, lots of splitting behavior, emotional instability. Unstable interpersonal relationships (she says I'm her only true friend, yikes), recurrent suicidal behavior (although she was clinically diagnosed with depression), feelings of emptiness. Those are all there.

Frankly I'm kind of at the end of my rope here, I feel beyond helpless. Let me provide some background and then I'll hit some of the finer details of what's really bothering me right now. We've been together nearly 9 months (a few days shy) and I frankly love her to bits. We clicked almost instantly, everything is great when she's not bad or upset. I should mention that this is my first relationship (I'm over twenty though), she is the first girl I've kissed or done anything sexual with. I feel like that may be important information. When she is bad I can usually handle it. Usually she moves past it after a little while and I can handle whatever she throws my way without getting frustrated or upset. Or I used to. And the good times used to far outweigh the bad. I don't know anymore. Here's my problem.

Her self esteem is practically nonexistent a lot of the times and this leads to a lot of problems. I have to try keep this vague, largely because I don't want to give away my location, but I volunteer each summer for a very specific kind of stage show. It requires a somewhat large time commitment, every night about 2 and a half hours for a week straight, and then a week off. I go 28 days this summer (14 of which I've already completed). Last year I met a girl there, her name will be A. We were friends, not exceptionally close but she was one of the few people I talked to. We lost touch when the show ended at the end of August. My SO found out about A when A commented on a graduation picture of myself and SO on Instagram, but did not like the picture (Instagram is a whole other problem). To SO this meant that A liked me. And wanted to sleep with me. I honestly don't find A attractive and was never involved with her in anyway. But I digress. So even before this summer's season started SO already didn't like this show.

Once the show started things got worse. SO would break down every night when I went because I'm not allowed to use my phone backstage. To her this meant I was "choosing the show over her" or "choosing A over her" or just generally leaving her. The usual abandonment snafu. Then last week (a few days ago) she came to see the show because I substituted for the other cast (who is on the weeks I'm off). I think she legitimately hates me now. She wants me to quit. Says it's a waste of time. That it's disgusting because (she only discovered this when she saw the show) there's nude people in the show and every night now she "knows" I'm choosing to go see "those naked skanks." And I try to explain why I do the show but she "doesn't get it." But I can't get her to just accept that our views on this are different because she apparently desperately wants us to "see this the same way. That the show is stupid and dumb and worthless and I could be doing better things with my time (like talking to her)"

I'm horrified and I feel honestly worthless. She has never been so openly hostile towards me. She's been saying this show ruined her, that this has ruined her and her summer and she wanted to spend time with me (we see each other every few days, we saw each other yesterday for 14 hours in fact, and this is only two and a half hours in the evening) and we barely hang out. That I should quit because she doesn't know if she can do this if I stay in the show. She keeps saying things like the show ruined her, or it ruined us (as a relationship, because I get really frustrated now, and I didn't before).

But I won't quit. This show soothes me, yes it gets me away from her and frankly I need that break. But at the same time I get so incredibly frustrated at her because she breaks down every night and says so many mean things now. It's like I have to decide if the two and a half hours away make up for the disgusting accusations she's going to throw around during it. I won't quit. That's non-negotiable. And my therapist wouldn't let me quit, as she constantly tells me I need to keep my life alive while I'm with my SO to avoid getting sucked into her life completely. To try and keep the relationship healthy. And I enjoy it too much.

I'm just really frustrated and hopeless and I feel very very bad. She keeps blaming the show but I said, in my anger the other day, that she caused this. I've started to lash out more in anger and it really scares me because it's not who I am or who I used to be. And she told me I need to stop saying abusive things when I'm angry and that just really ruined me. Now I think I'm abusive. I've tried so hard to be good and patient and my nerves are so frayed and she just straight up berates my hobby now and it hurts so much because I just want to be supported :/ Honestly I just want to know how to deal with this. How do I, stay calm, and try and work with her on this so we can try get past it? What do I do to better center myself to get through this? The show ends in three weeks for me. Two more weeks of shows plus a week off. I don't know if I can last that long like this.

I also just feel really alone. I don't feel like I can talk with anyone about this anymore because they keep telling me to just leave. But I don't want to, and when things are good, they're GOOD. And I frankly don't know what to do. I feel lost, and this situation has really exacerbated those feelings because she is directly berating a hobby of mine. She has never done that before. Ever. I've tried to do things like SET but I think I just need advice on how to stay calm and centered and how to approach this specific problem. Because I've been getting very frustrated recently, and I have lashed out at her a bit (nothing major, just a sentence or two, things like "you caused this" which really isn't ok and I beat myself up a lot for it. I don't want to do it anymore.)

Thanks for reading, I appreciate it. I get a little verbose sometimes so I'm sorry this ended up so long. Just getting it on paper has made me feel a little better.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi PurpleFlower,



Oh yes, these relationships can be quite challenging to say the least! It is great that you are doing all you can to keep doing what it is that gives your life meaning.

There is a lot to read and learn about here. In time, you will want to learn these tools and use them in combination. Not JADE-ing and learning how to deal with blame, accusations, and jealousy sound like important themes to work on.

The most short term solution though is to work on yourself and to control your own reactions. I can do this sometimes, but I hear ya, we all have our limits. I recently had to hear a story about someone who my SO is convinced was looking at me, mind you the person was looking at me, not vice versa, and my SO was sitting right there and did nothing, blah, blah, blah, but something, something I'm horrible. This was years ago, a look mind you, that I didn't even notice if it did happen and that is all there was to it, and I still am hearing about it. [insert scream here]

When you learn not to JADE these things can at least be shortened. I admit I JADE-ed on this recently, I had my reasons to want to keep him distracted, but... .I tell ya, if I never have to hear this topic again... .I'll be grateful and know it is because of using this tool.

In terms of your own self control I would recommend, if you have the time and interest, to take up a regular mediation practice. It is a free, easy way to slow down your reaction times and build up a well of compassion for other living beings which will come in handy!

wishing you peace, pearl.

[PurpleFlower]

Thank you very much for the advice pearl.

I have been looking up meditation and have actually been considering starting for some time. I am generally just trying to find a way to be a little more centered and grounded.

I find it very hard not to JADE honestly, I'm a very logical person and to see someone so ruled by emotions makes it difficult for me to understand sometimes. Just now she started on about the show again, right after suggesting we go back to vapid surface level conversation like we did at the start of our relationship as kind of a "reset." I've been trying to stay calmer, and shift the choice to her. I.e. She tells me I choose the show or I quit but if I stay in she'll break up with me, and I've been trying to gently tell her I know it hurts but if I keep doing the show, it is her choice to leave me, not mine. It's hard.

It is also hard because I used to ask her if she wanted me to quit, and she would say no, until she saw the show a few days ago. And now she wants me to quit because she says seeing it was a mistake (because of said nudes I guess). And she is saying I am going back on my word for saying I would quit.

I feel very lost still, but I hope with time clarity will come. Thank you for the advice!

[pearlsw]

I feel very lost still, but I hope with time clarity will come. Thank you for the advice!

I had a hard time with it at first (not JADE-ing). Then I was good with it for awhile, but I've slipped lately. There are times when I feel like I can't let horrible accusations stand. But I tell ya what. I am going back to that tool with all I have this week. I just run the letters through my head before I speak, to see if anything I am about to say is a justification, argument, defense or explanation and check myself, and don't say it. It won't always work, but it can work.

I just remind myself his brain, in an unstable mode, is spinning and not putting out stuff that makes any sense and I can't get anywhere with arguing. So, I try to say things like "I hear you are upset", "I am sorry you feel bad." but then I just don't get into the topic. Really, the more you feed these nonsense topics the more trouble you get I find. If you do want to explain anything, I've found that keeping it very short, to the point, and then being done with it is the best thing.

Jealousy is a real relationship killer for me and I may not be able to go on because of it. I am sorry you are experiencing it as well. I know what it is like to be put on trial for minutia over it and it is a real drag.

I understand! It is totally understandable to feel lost in this. But we're here to help you find the way and keep you grounded in reality. You are not alone!

take care, pearl.

[braveSun]

Hey PurpleFlower I am sorry that you are going through this with you SO. 

Looks like trial on fire, sort of. It can get better.

pearlsw has a good point, being conscious of JADEing and avoiding doing it is a very good thing to work on for when we are getting into these situations. It's not that easy to apply. It's a bit counter intuitive at the beginning.

And for me it has been that I did need to have something to fall back on instead of JADEing. I like to use SET.   Support, Empathy, Truth.  Sometimes, a bit like pearlsw describes with her SO, for me it can go S-E-S-E-E S-E T!... S-E!. But it's worth the effort.

With pwBPD, as you have experienced, their feelings are very real to them, so if we start to explain ourselves, or argue, or debate, or justify something, we end up adding fuel to the fire because it comes at them like we are discrediting their reality. Best to keep our interaction aiming to their feelings, and not put too much emphasis to our version of the facts.

They tend to see their feelings = facts.

Chances are that if you do approach this carefully and address the feelings your SO is expressing, you will find a way to de-escalate the intensity to the situation.

It is also hard because I used to ask her if she wanted me to quit, and she would say no, until she saw the show a few days ago. And now she wants me to quit because she says seeing it was a mistake (because of said nudes I guess). And she is saying I am going back on my word for saying I would quit.

Interesting. Do I understand that she is saying that she said the mistake was for her to see that show?

How did it come up to her concluding that you are going back on your word? Can you share a bit of she said/he said in the conversation that took place, so we can understand better the feeling issue?


Brave

[Maximum44]

How did it come up to her concluding that you are going back on your word? Can you share a bit of she said/he said in the conversation that took place, so we can understand better the feeling issue?

Sounds to me like he asked if she wanted him to quit and in her reality, she heard that he said he would quit.

Does that sound right, purpleflower?

[PurpleFlower]

Thank you all for the advice.  I am definitely taking it to heart, and trying to keep myself calm and find the emotions and feelings at the root of this tumultuous time. :/ I am a very logical person, and always have been. It's hard not to JADE (now that I know the acronym), when I have always operated on logic like that. If I justify myself she should understand right? It's hard to remember that I'm dealing with someone rather unlike myself in that aspect. So I need to adjust, get better at trying to use tools and techniques that get to the heart of the feelings at play. Which is I think the hardest part, staying calm under pressure and trying to defuse the situation enough so that we can talk through it. Doubly so because most of our interactions like this are through text, where so much nuance is lost.

Sounds to me like he asked if she wanted him to quit and in her reality, she heard that he said he would quit.

Does that sound right, purpleflower?

This is the gist of it. In essence, she would be greatly upset that I would leave for two and a half hours each night I was performing. They take my phone away at security back stage, and as an example she would sometimes hurl insults at security for "treating us like babies." Often times I would get my phone back to a hundred or more messages, angry, about various things she is insecure about. But I would always ask if she was in a mood about the show, and this is as close to the wording I used as I can remember, "It seems like this show really upsets you, would you like me to quit?" And she would always say no, that I enjoy it and I should do things I enjoy. It's not something I want to (or would) quit, but I was trying to get the lay of the land, to understand how exactly she felt about it.

In a moment of clarity earlier, she said that seeing the show herself was a mistake, because she never wanted me to quit until she saw it, and now she gets so triggered when she thinks about it that she wants me to quit. That's why she says it was a mistake to see the show herself.

[pearlsw]

Thank you all for the advice.  I am definitely taking it to heart, and trying to keep myself calm and find the emotions and feelings at the root of this tumultuous time. :/ I am a very logical person, and always have been. It's hard not to JADE (now that I know the acronym), when I have always operated on logic like that. If I justify myself she should understand right? It's hard to remember that I'm dealing with someone rather unlike myself in that aspect. So I need to adjust, get better at trying to use tools and techniques that get to the heart of the feelings at play. Which is I think the hardest part, staying calm under pressure and trying to defuse the situation enough so that we can talk through it. Doubly so because most of our interactions like this are through text, where so much nuance is lost.

Hi PurpleFlower,

I get it. And I blew it last week thinking logic and explaining would make a difference. It led to a pretty big, maybe relationship ending blow up.

You can still use logic to understand the world and learn these tools, but... .try not to be down about not being able to use it with your partner as you are used to. Think of it as special tools you use for this special person, make it something you embrace not resent, those are my tips. I let myself get genuinely excited about the tools during a long crisis period last year and it helped me to feel good while going through some incredibly rough times.

Remember, what you have the most control over in this story is you!

take care, pearl.

[braveSun]

  In a moment of clarity earlier, she said that seeing the show herself was a mistake, because she never wanted me to quit until she saw it, and now she gets so triggered when she thinks about it that she wants me to quit. That's why she says it was a mistake to see the show herself.

OK. Than she sees herself being triggered. There is a nuance there.
I would not want to miss the opportunity to explore her feelings there.

Thus the potential to having a conversation where you apply yourself to validate her feelings. Take the pressure off the show itself.

Since we are most likely in BPD land, you might want to reach out with full knowledge of your under_standing. pwBPD tend to have a big extra need for validation. Possibly beyond what we nons can conceive as 'reasonable need'. But I want to make sure I get this right.

Am I right to think that this is not so much about you and your enjoyment of the show, but rather about her feelings regarding the potential instability of your relationship?

Trying to see better in your dynamic.

Brave

[PurpleFlower]

Am I right to think that this is not so much about you and your enjoyment of the show, but rather about her feelings regarding the potential instability of your relationship?

I think the show represents kind of the catalyst between three separate things.

Firstly I don't think she understands why I enjoy doing something so, in her mind, meaningless and trivial. This is the least minor point, and I think frankly just something she came up with to try and justify why I should quit. She's called it disgusting, dumb, stupid, weird, and various other names.

Secondly, I think that the show catalyzes her low self esteem, and her constant feeling of "not being enough." This girl, A, kind of represents a "threat" in her mind, because she sees literally every other girl in the universe as prettier than her. So then, added on to that, the fact that there are nudes in this show, she is practically devastated that I go every night and I am around A and these nudes (of which one happens to be A). Never-mind the fact that the nudes are separate, and I do not see them, nor do I even talk to or see A.

Thirdly, and what I think was the initial trigger, is that I am without my phone for two and a half hours. This triggers her abandonment anxiety, as she feels I am leaving her, and that I am "choosing the show over her."

I primarily think the problem is her self-esteem. In fact, nearly (if not all) of her meltdowns have been over some other girl, whether it was a celebrity, or a girl I liked 4 years ago, they have all been about someone she perceives in some way to be "better" than her, whether that be "prettier" or "nicer." Even though she has never met these other woman before in her life. In fact, she just started to (last night, but continuing into today) have a meltdown about this girl I liked 4 years ago. She hasn't brought her up in three or so months, and I'm unsure what triggered this. (If any of you have tips on how to approach this it would be appreciated. She keeps asking me for a picture of this girl and I keep saying no, because I know she's just going to pick apart how much "prettier" she is, even though my SO claims that seeing a picture will help her 'get over her.' If that's true, I would send a picture in a heart beat, but I am almost certain it isn't and I would rather stand firm on this.) But like I said, I really genuinely believe that most of her breakdowns revolve around her self esteem, and her feelings of "not being enough."

pearl - Thank you for the kind words. Do you have any tips on how not to be so hard on myself when I fail or I JADE? It is what I am most bad at doing, and my therapist has been a great help at helping me realize that we all have emotions and make mistakes and that it's not my fault. But it would be great if you have any tips to keep myself from beating myself up when I'm in the heat of the moment. Because I beat myself up a lot and get down on myself and that's really not productive for anyone involved.

[pearlsw]

pearl - Thank you for the kind words. Do you have any tips on how not to be so hard on myself when I fail or I JADE? It is what I am most bad at doing, and my therapist has been a great help at helping me realize that we all have emotions and make mistakes and that it's not my fault. But it would be great if you have any tips to keep myself from beating myself up when I'm in the heat of the moment. Because I beat myself up a lot and get down on myself and that's really not productive for anyone involved.

Hi PurpleFlower,

I wish I had some advice on this. For me, it just comes from having good self-esteem. I've experienced a bit of anxiety over the years, people called it "shyness" when I was a kid, but I think it was really anxiety. But I just started training myself as a little kid to overcome all the obstacles in front of me, by simply choosing to believe in myself. I simply was clear in my head about "right" and "wrong", for myself and I held to that. Having lost my parents at a young age I learned to take care of and believe in myself and my abilities to get myself through life, no matter what, though sometimes I have to wait for my head and heart to sync up. I choose to have patience with myself and acceptance and love for myself. If I feel bad about myself or something I did, I just work on it and improve it. That's all you can do. I don't linger and wallow in self-hatred. If I feel low I let myself be low for a bit, knowing I will rise back up again. I like me. 

I have to say being in this relationship has turned the world upside down entirely for me and I have never felt my principles and values challenged more than ever before. It is amazing the power of this illness to override, or try to override, reality even. I had no idea this even existed or... .how to face such challenges.

But from what I read you have a pretty strong sense of self and boundaries, from what I can see. You want to do this show, and it sounds really interesting/entertaining by the way, and you do it! Is it a feminist and/or queer thing?

I can give a spot of advice, for what is worth, on the jealousy stuff, which is also pretty difficult to deal with. I'd try to say a few more things to keep my partner more aware of their attractiveness to me. A bit of daily flirting, sexiness, extra attention could help, if nothing else, to keep those thoughts in her head - that you find her attractive versus obsessing over the idea of you being interested in other people. Jealousy is a tough one though. Hearing about it, and feeling the urge to respond. This is definitely a place to work on not JADE-ing.

It also takes a lot of depersonalization when you hear a lot of this negative messaging from your partner I think. I am personally on my last nerve with extreme jealousy and being overly sexualized (at times) by my SO.

But back to the original question. You will make mistakes. I remember once, last year I think, I had a pretty good run and the relationship seemed to be running smoothly. I got a little lulled into thinking this was all over, because that is how my non/logical brain works. Problem solved. But it wasn't! This is a process. I did not stick to my communication tools one day and things started to go off the rails and things got a bit strained. I wanted to kick myself for not using the tools, for having been half-hearted and not trying enough, but you know what? I'm not perfect and all I could do was learn and let myself be re-inspired to do it better the next time. I think the other thing I didn't realize back then was that the tools aren't just for crisis times. I had so many crises I could not see that.

To do a relationship like this though I think you have to take it on as a practice, the way you might take on a yoga practice or something. It takes dedication, commitment, awareness, and flexibility. Just my two cents!

take care, pearl.

[braveSun]

I like pearlsw comment a lot. Such an inspiration on self-esteem...
   

I see the idea of depersonalization is very much key, but forgiving myself for my 'human~ness' and being patient with my own learning curve is such a big one for me.

I primarily think the problem is her self-esteem. In fact, nearly (if not all) of her meltdowns have been over some other girl, whether it was a celebrity, or a girl I liked 4 years ago, they have all been about someone she perceives in some way to be "better" than her, whether that be "prettier" or "nicer."

Your conversations seem to hover around 'the other' a lot. Probably not your choice.

Because self-esteem is such a wide concept, I'd think about looking into ways to validate her own good qualities. I do like the idea of flirting a bit more and such, but to some extend.

I would see more stuff in the line of what she's good at, what attracted you to her in the first place (outside of her good looks), what makes your relationship more attractive to you than say an alluring fantasy with the nudes (including the nude A).

Sometimes we focus on the jealousy, because it's a difficult experience for us as we feel like we are being put on the spot. But the connection we have with our SO can take a side drift because of our annoyance, frustration, tiredness, (fill in the blanks).

In your experience, what would you like to validate in her and the relationship?

I would try to zero in with that, and bring in small validations into the day-to-day for a while. Sort of as to build a space where the two of you can settle a little.

Than, maybe have a calm conversation using SET, where you can bring in your own truth about both the importance for you to continue with the show and to have your own feelings with her.

I would not try to approach this dryly, in some type of confrontational or logical way. I mean... I did at times, and it has surely backfired.

Any of that making sense?

Brave

[PurpleFlower]

Oh boy, guys, I failed big time and I'm really down on myself. I screamed at her which is so far beyond not ok, and I'm really not ok right now.

The gist of how it went down was she kept asking about this girl, from four years ago, who I will call B. She wanted her name, all she would say all day is "I need a name." I stepped away multiple times and I think I did a really good job of remaining calm all day, right up until the end, when I had to go to the show. I basically made her a deal, that I'd tell her the name if she agreed to a few terms: She wasn't allowed to bring B up again, she wouldn't tell me to quit the show, she wouldn't harass me during the show, and that she'd talk to her parents about seeing a more specialized therapist (this is a complex subject but the two line explanation is her parents are extremely critical and unsupportive of mental health, and it was a big deal for them to even let her see a therapist. She's currently seeing a therapist who only specializes in anxiety though, rather than one that specializes with borderline).

She agreed to the terms and I gave her the name and went to the show. Afterwards she said that having the name did help, that she confirmed this person was ugly and not a threat and there were a lot of very mean messages about her in my chat log when I looked at my phone. But then she found-out that I had followed B on instagram briefly at the start of this year. My time with B is very upsetting to me, because I was not a good person, and I completely ruined the friendship I had with B because I became extremely clingy and creepy/ I have since re read the chat longs, I am exceptionally creepy and I was very very sad when our friendship ended. She ended it, my therapist has said that it seems like I was in a depressive esque state based on what I've told her about my mental health after I firebombed my friendship with B. Suffice to say it's a painful period that I've tried very hard to put behind me and make up for.

But SO started to go on and on about following B, how I must have thought she was pretty and not ugly like Is aid she was. That even tho "she can see B is ugly maybe you [meaning me] don't see it." And "How can you follow your abuser on instagram? You wanted her, when you had me! What the F... .?" (She never abused me? She just kind of ruined my mental health, because I became creepy and clingy. I say she ruined me but it was my fault in the end). I tried really hard to keep my calm and kept asking for a day of space, since I told her if she broke the terms we'd take a day off. And she kept berating me, "how can you leave me when I'm like this?" And I eventually kind of just... .broke. Completely. I screamed for her to stop and give me at least a few minutes to step away and she just hung up and said "I will give you what you want. A day off. Let me know if you want more."

I can't believe I screamed. I'm legitimately scared of myself. This isn't who I am, this isn't who I want to be. I tried really hard to step away if things got heated yesterday. I'm really just ashamed and disappointed and upset and disgusted and so many other things. This isn't me. It's not who I want to be. There's no excuse for what I did. I said some really mean things too, said she was being an ass, told her to "shut the f... .up" for a minute so I could finish talking before she replied (I should note that while I was on the phone, she was texting replies because she couldn't talk on the phone or make any noise). Just generally mean things. I really kind of hate myself right now. I can provide some more details on request but I'm kind of reeling right now and am just trying to process and tell myself that I'm not a bad person, getting it out on paper was good.

[pearlsw]

Since we are most likely in BPD land, you might want to reach out with full knowledge of your under_standing. pwBPD tend to have a big extra need for validation. Possibly beyond what we nons can conceive as 'reasonable need'.

Hi braveSun,  

Thank you so much for this comment! I think I will reorient things for myself this week based on this and hopefully keep doing so going forward. It just says so much! I am such a quiet, private person and I feel nervous giving him a lot of details (because they can be weaponized later) so I don't say much about what is going on inside me personally. If someone doesn't listen I just go do my own thing and move on. I need to remember that he needs a lot of validation, more than I recognize.

warmly, pearl.

[pearlsw]

Oh boy, guys, I failed big time and I'm really down on myself. I screamed at her which is so far beyond not ok, and I'm really not ok right now.

 I'm kind of reeling right now and am just trying to process and tell myself that I'm not a bad person, getting it out on paper was good.

Hi PurpleFlower,

You are not a bad person. One bad incident you instantly regret and are clear with yourself you don't want repeat does not make you a bad person.   It makes you a good person facing some obstacles with humility and compassion. And we are here to help you overcome those obstacles.

I got angry with my SO last week. He would not stop bringing up an old story of some jealous idea he had about me and someone looking at me. He was dysregulated and just would not stop. He goes on and on and it's like all and including the kitchen sink is being thrown at you. You were being harangued and pressured to give a name. A lot of us have been there.

So, you just sit right back down and remember who you are. Recommit to self-control and practice with us about other things to say and do so this does not happen, from your side, again. No need to beat yourself up.

I feel your pain! When I started my current relationship I hadn't gotten angry, raised my voice, or sworn in years. Years. Many years. It's been devastating to be with someone who finds your buttons and then bounces on them like a kid on a trampoline and then you lose your cool. But it happens.

Regularly using these two tools can help:

SET

Validation

I must admit, SET is not easy for me. I probably don't do it perfectly, but I do the best I can and it works well enough when things haven't reached a too far gone point. I don't worry about perfect wording, I just try to say "I hear what you are saying, I care about your feelings, etc., etc." That alone can make a difference. People repeat themselves and escalate (often get louder) when they don't feel heard.

There are times you will just have to walk away, but when you do it is good to let them know you'll be back later so they don't feel abandoned.

take care, pearl.

p.s.   Anyone reading feel like they are good at SET and want to offer some ways to have responded to the above situation? I may take another go at this later, I really need the practice and to internalize this better, but for now I hope a "SET whiz" may come by and make this clear!

[PurpleFlower]

Hi PurpleFlower,
I got angry with my SO last week. He would not stop bringing up an old story of some jealous idea he had about me and someone looking at me. He was dysregulated and just would not stop. He goes on and on and it's like all and including the kitchen sink is being thrown at you. You were being harangued and pressured to give a name. A lot of us have been there.

So, you just sit right back down and remember who you are. Recommit to self-control and practice with us about other things to say and do so this does not happen, from your side, again. No need to beat yourself up.

I feel your pain! When I started my current relationship I hadn't gotten angry, raised my voice, or sworn in years. Years. Many years. It's been devastating to be with someone who finds your buttons and then bounces on them like a kid on a trampoline and then you lose your cool. But it happens.

Regularly using these two tools can help:

SET

Validation

I must admit, SET is not easy for me. I probably don't do it perfectly, but I do the best I can and it works well enough when things haven't reached a too far gone point. I don't worry about perfect wording, I just try to say "I hear what you are saying, I care about your feelings, etc., etc." That alone can make a difference. People repeat themselves and escalate (often get louder) when they don't feel heard.
[/b]

I appreciate your kind words! I'm taking a lot of hard long looks at myself, and did a good job walking away yesterday I think. I need to do better at telling her I'll be back though, it's just hard to get a word in edgewise sometimes.

These tools are really useful, and I've been trying to apply them a lot. But if there is some guidance out there on how to apply them when there's no build up period? For example, today SO went from 0-100 in one text message. I told her I had an interview for a part time job today. She had, a few days ago encouraged me to see a part time job as I was anxious about money and so I took her advice in stride and did. But when I mentioned I had an interview I tried to use some SET techniques, and tell her that I was trying to make her proud because I knew she cared and I wanted her to know I had an interview so she wouldn't think Iw as ignoring her. But after that text all I got was "wow, how can you do this to me? Are you going to find some skank to f... .at work now? You're leaving me even more now? Why do you hate me so much? I can't do this, I'm done. Clearly I don't mean anything to you. You broke my heart. This is a big f... .n mistake. How could you think getting a job was a good idea?" And so on.

And in this situation I am even more confused because SHE told ME to find a job, and since I am committed to bettering myself and finding some structure I did. I've been trying to tell her I understand she feels like I am leaving her, and that it feels like I am doing this to get away from her (I'm not. I just want money.) But it doesn't feel like anything is working and I feel like her jealousy and controlling nature may have spiraled so far as to make this relationship unsalvageable. Has anyone come back from something like this?

She was initially going to join me at my therapist tomorrow too, but as soon as I mentioned the job she said she wasn't coming. This is a problem because my therapist has some good low cost resources for her.

[PurpleFlower]

I legitimately think this is unsalvageable.

She is making me choose between taking the job and her. I said if she was better I would take it because I would be confident I would not have to worry she is going to die. She said now she doesn't want to get better because she knows I'll leave if she gets better. I just can't do this, I don't know what to say anymore. The split is too deep I think. I don't even know if I can whether this storm.

[Radcliff]

I want to compliment you on how well you are dealing with this situation.  Maintaining your boundaries regarding the show was excellent.  

pearlsw, braveSun, and Maximum44 have given you some great advice here.  They said many things I would have said, and many I wouldn't have thought of.

Keep in mind that every pwBPD is unique, and every "non" partner is unique, so every relationship impacted by BPD is unique.  You can control your part, but whether a relationship works out long term will also rely on factors beyond your control.  Investing in the tools here will help you to take this relationship as far as it can go, and if it ends, can help you with future relationships.  That disclaimer out of the way, one of the necessary ingredients for a successful relationship with a pwBPD is a "non" partner who possesses both empathy/commitment and strong boundaries.  Empathy and commitment without boundaries is a recipe for disaster -- the "non" partner can be consumed by the relationship and lose their identity.  That's what you and your therapist are trying to prevent with your good boundaries.

I legitimately think this is unsalvageable.

She is making me choose between taking the job and her. I said if she was better I would take it because I would be confident I would not have to worry she is going to die. She said now she doesn't want to get better because she knows I'll leave if she gets better. I just can't do this, I don't know what to say anymore. The split is too deep I think. I don't even know if I can whether this storm.

Whether the relationship is something you want to pursue long term is a question you can answer on a time frame you choose.  Her extreme statements are an expression of emotion -- don't allow her dramatic behavior to suck you into thinking that one situation or incident has ruined the relationship.

Hmm... .you told her that if she was better, you'd take the job?  And she said she does not want to get better because you will leave.  Do you see how that sets you up to be her hostage?  Maintaining an appropriate amount of independence while learning to compromise in a relationship is a skill that takes work, and it's especially hard to get the balance right if your first serious relationship is with a pwBPD.

If you've decided the job is something that's right for you, take the job.  This is a very young relationship to be impacting job choices.  You can use S.E.T. (Support, Empathy, Truth) to deliver the news, along with hefty doses of validation.  Do not expect this to go well.  You are going to need to be calm and confident, and still expect to get quite a storm from her.  She will raise the stakes and make all kinds of threats.  Don't react to the threats -- look at them as a sign of her emotional stress.  Validate her feelings, but hold firm.  Have a plan in advance for what to do if the conversation completely blows up, such as withdraw with compassion, say you're going to give her some space, and you'll call back a certain period of time later to check on her (2, 12, 24 hours, whatever seems best).

What are your current thoughts on taking the job?  Is there a deadline to decide?  Would you like us to work this as a SET example with you, talking through how you are going to talk to her before you do it?

WW

[PurpleFlower]

Thank you for the kind words Wentworth! I'm trying my best.

Updates on the situations at hand: She saw my therapist with me, it was a one time thing, because my therapist had a few resources she wanted to share and wanted to get a bit more of the lay of the land with SO. It went well in my opinion but of course SO has a different agenda. Says she was mean and judge-mental and made her feel worthless. She won't be calling any of the people my therapist gave her. So on and so forth. Now she wants me to stop seeing my therapist, but then she said "don't worry about me I'll be fine." So. I don't know on that front, I can't see my therapist for another two weeks anyway. I'll cross that bridge later.

In regards to the show, I was able to negotiate with the security to keep my phone on me while backstage, cutting down no contact time from 2.5 hours to half an hour. I think this is a reasonable compromise for SO, as I get to keep doing the show and interacting with everyone, and she will not feel lonely. She, however, instead decided that, since I hadn't asked before that calling me a "p... .y" was a good method to go about this. How could I do this? How could I not have asked before? I tried to apply some validation here. I said that I understood how she felt hurt that for three weeks I didn't ask, that I'd probably feel hurt too. That I knew that she was upset because it makes it look like I was doing this to get away from her and that her life didn't matter to me. And I tried to tell her I understood and that I'd be hurt too. But she kept then pushing, calling me unassertive (I'm not really assertive it's something I'm working on) and a p... .y and insulting me as "good boy PurpleFlower, always following the rules! Even if his girlfriend might kill herself." The metaphor about finding buttons and just trampolining on them was a good one pearl. When I said she was hurting me she said "I don't care anymore." God. She doesn't even care if she hurts me anymore. "A lot of stuff isn't looking good for you today, doing the show to escape me, your therapist was a b... .h to me."

What are your current thoughts on taking the job?  Is there a deadline to decide?  Would you like us to work this as a SET example with you, talking through how you are going to talk to her before you do it?

I would love if we could walk though this. This specific job, I may turn down. I don't have a set timeline right now as I'm waiting on an email from one of my references, but this job I've realized isn't a great stepping stone and I may be looking for one more coherently related to the degree I have just earned recently. So for other future jobs I feel like this would be a good tool to learn.

[Radcliff]

Do you see her distortions at work here?  You are a bad guy for following the rules, "even when it might get your girlfriend killed."  You and everyone else checked their phones at security.  She is an adult, her safety is her responsibility, not yours.  You are not a bad boyfriend for not asking security for an exception earlier.  In fact, getting the exception worries me a bit, because it validates her distorted view that she deserves more access to you than the SO's of the other performers, and it eats away at your professional boundaries.

This notion that she is responsible for her own safety is an important one.  If you don't address it, she will continue to try to make you responsible, not take responsibility herself, and eat away further at your boundaries.  How about using SET on that issue?

Check out the page on S.E.T. (Support, Empathy, Truth).  Let's figure out "Support" first.  Here's an excerpt from farther down on that thread:

Support refers to an initial statement which indicates the loved one supports the person with borderline personality. It is a statement that begins with “I” and demonstrates concern and a desire to help. It can be anything that establishes a foundation for the relationship or interaction: “I want to try to help you feel better,” “I care about you,” or “I am worried about how you are feeling.”

The support statement is meant to reassure the BP that the relationship is a safe one, and that her needs matter even during this difficult moment.

Imagine you are having a talk with her about her safety (face-to-face, not over text or e-mail or phone).  What Support statement might you make?  Though the examples above are short single sentences, I'm thinking that with you guys new at this and it being a serious topic, you're going to want to lay on Support a bit thicker.

WW

[braveSun]

PurpleFlower, how is it going? I like what WW is bringing up. It's a good start. How would it sound like, if you were thinking of expressing how you care about her feelings and safety?

A good start for support.

Brave

[PurpleFlower]

I'm doing ok. Things are garbage but I'm ok. Ish. It's just, constant now. She never used to be this bad but now it's constant "liar" or "a... .e" or "st... .d liar" or "f... .k off" or "shut the f... .up." EDIT: Also "c... .t" and she called me abusive a few times which is a real big blow honestly. It's constant verbal abuse honestly. All about her self image. She compares herself to these other girls in my life, who I genuinely find unattractive, and somehow sees in them everything she wants to be. No matter how many times I say they're unattractive or not what I want. One time she asked me to describe my 'type' and I said something like I enjoyed long hair "by quite a bit" over short. What I meant by this was I liked hair that was actually, like, hair instead of short like Jacqueline Pearce. Recently she trimmed her hair and accidentally cut it too short. So she thinks she looks like a boy. Except like, it's only three inches shorter than it was before. It just barely makes it to her breasts now, when before it was a little below her nipples. But to her that's short. Too short. She "looks like a boy." And I said I loved it and  thought it looked really good and I didn't understand how she thought it was short but I could see that it upset her. She asked what length I liked better and I refused to answer because I knew what would happen and I told her I loved it at any length because it was hers. That no matter what I loved her hair. Eventually I just said like grow it an inch, and I specifically added, to grow it if it would help her feel less like a boy because I knew the length annoyed her. She blew up, said I hated her hair. What was wrong with it. Etc. And then today, she went back through old texts specifically, honestly, to hurt herself. Finding that time I described my "type" and saying I preferred long hair over short. Blow up. "You made a mistake when you said you liked long hair." "F... .you." "Liar" etc. When I tried to describe how I thought her hair is long and that her hair is the length I meant when I said long and that short I meant like non existent, nope. "liar. what else have you lied about? Oh A and B have long hair you like them? You must want to f... .them." I don't know if I can do this anymore. Honestly. It's constant abuse.

I might be getting better at not JADEing but I don't know. I feel like I'm getting better at disconnecting from all of it but again, I don't know because she's always so constantly at level 100. When you're being accused of wanting to f... .someone else, how do you validate her feelings but also explain that that's not how you feel? This is hard. :/

Imagine you are having a talk with her about her safety (face-to-face, not over text or e-mail or phone).  What Support statement might you make?  Though the examples above are short single sentences, I'm thinking that with you guys new at this and it being a serious topic, you're going to want to lay on Support a bit thicker.

WW

This is really hard for me honestly because I don't know how to like, word this at all. "I'm really concerned about your health right now, SO. I get extremely worried when I think you might be dying, or might be attempting to kill yourself. And I'm extremely worried about your physical health right now. [as an aside, she's way underweight, seems to have developed a heart arrhythmia, and has lots of panic attacks which lead to bad breathing] I genuinely love you and care about you and I really worry about you a lot right now because of all of this." Something like that?

As an aside, anyone have any coping mechanisms for being yelled at over text? I've always associated all caps talking (LIKE THIS) as yelling, and it makes me really anxious now and I really don't like to be yelled at. It honestly is the sole reason right now I break down a lot, I cry, I scream sometimes, because I just get so battered because she's yelling. She says she's not, that it's just expressing her emotions but I can't break the mental connection to yelling. I've asked her to please stop yelling and she just says no if she's angry she'll yell and she's not yelling. This isn't ok. Because int he same sentence she'll chastise me for my reaction when she's bad. She called me a pyscho today because I was crying and when I cry sometimes I scream because I'm in just so much emotional agony and she said it wasn't ok and if I do it again she's leaving.

That's the other thing, this is getting long so I'll try end it here. She always threatens to break up with me now. Every time. "If you don't do X I'm breaking up with you." or "I'm over. This is over. I mean it this time." And I just try to tell her that's her choice but if it's over then she's not allowed to keep asking me these questions, about my past or about our relationship because the relationship is over. But then she'll come back like nothing happened. How do I deal? What do I do it feels like everything is coming apart at the seams and I'm trying so hard to keep it together but I'm not good enough

[Radcliff]

It sounds like things are really rough right now; I'm sorry to hear that.  Let's set SET aside for the moment and focus on boundaries to reduce the wear and tear on you. 

Let's start with texting.  It's a horrible way to solve problems.  Dysregulated texts from our pwBPD can also do a lot of damage to us.

The first step is to essentially apply mindfulness, and breathe and pause before responding.  Don't get sucked into a conflict.  At the same time, running for the hills and ignoring her could make things worse.  One approach is to text back, "You've said a lot I need to think about, and I want to make sure to give the problems all the care and attention they deserve.  Let's talk about this face-to-face tonight."  After that, you may need to apply a boundary and not respond to more dysregulated texts.  You may even need to put your phone down and walk away from it for a while to get some peace.  Do not just read the texts and feel each one hit you like a bullet.

How do these thoughts seem to you?  Can you give us more background on where you are and what is happening when her texting flares up, and how you've responded?

WW

[PurpleFlower]

 

Let's start with texting.  It's a horrible way to solve problems.  Dysregulated texts from our pwBPD can also do a lot of damage to us.

Yes. Texting is awful, so much nuance and tone is lost in a text, and it's so easy to read a text in whatever way you want, i.e. for SO to read a text in a way that causes her the most hurt and damage when if I was saying it in person I would use a compassionate tone and it would come across as a supportive message. For example, if I ask a question, "Hey, I'm concerned for your health, are you alone right now?" in person I'd get a nice response. Text wise, "No, why do you want to know? Don't come over." Etc. Just very assumitory and attacking because she reads it as an attack so she decides to attack back.

 
The first step is to essentially apply mindfulness, and breathe and pause before responding.  Don't get sucked into a conflict.  At the same time, running for the hills and ignoring her could make things worse.  One approach is to text back, "You've said a lot I need to think about, and I want to make sure to give the problems all the care and attention they deserve.  Let's talk about this face-to-face tonight."  After that, you may need to apply a boundary and not respond to more dysregulated texts.  You may even need to put your phone down and walk away from it for a while to get some peace.  Do not just read the texts and feel each one hit you like a bullet.

I like this idea a lot, but it's... .difficult to implement. She still lives with her parents (as do I, however I have an inordinate amount of freedom. I may as well be living on my own.) On her hand, however, her mother is exceptionally... .controlling? I feel she may have some narcissist tendencies but her mother has started saying really disgusting things about me and won't let her leave the house at all. SO speculates that her mother is jealous that she actually has a friend for once and won't let her see me. I try to see her as much as I can, because honestly, I love seeing her. When I'm with her everything feels perfect. I have barely, if ever, actually seen her break down when I'm with her in person. Probably because in person what I say actually comes across with nuance and compassion whereas over text, that's all lost.

In order to combat this I try to call her a lot. If texting is getting heated I try to get her to pick up because phone calls are so much better than texts (but still nowhere near as good as in person). She's not allowed to talk on the phone much though (for the above controlling reasons) so typically she will text and I'll talk on the phone. It's not ideal but I'm trying extremely hard to find a way to give us situations where we can actually, you know, talk instead of text.

She typically flares up the texting when she has an intrusive thought of some sort. "Oh no, Flower is going to leave me for A!" Then she starts spiraling. I can often track the spiral just by her texts because they get more frantic, more frequent, and just more hurtful. It can happen any time. I'm usually at home. I try to be mindful, take a few seconds to respond. A few minutes actually, just to allow myself time to breathe. I've tried to take up a few things to force me to be mindful. I'll walk the dog, or I'll work on this puzzle I've been working on. Just things designed to slow the thought process. . But sometimes she just gets so stuck in this mode and she'll start just texting me the same thing over and over, constantly, dozens of times. I.e., last night. "Why did you have to talk to them?" Multiple times. Every text was that and they come in with no breaks. In situations like this it gets harder and harder to stay calm or mindful. I don't usually blow up but I start to text quicker. Just like "please, wait, give me a chance to respond." Things like that. I used to get angry or hurt and feed the spiral. She says it helps her if I get defensive but I disagree, I've noticed that if I get defensive like she thinks help I just feed emotion into the conversation and it spirals quicker and harder. But then sometimes, she'll be all "You didn't get defensive. You must like A" for example. This is another example of nuance lost in text. "No, SO, I didn't like her" would be said in a compassionate, yet assertive manner. But over text she just reads it as a wimpy half a... -ed response that's not true or is just me attempting to cover for something. And then it's like "If you don't do X [block someone, quit show, send her a picture of my instagram etc.] I'm breaking up with you. I deserve the world and you just take me for granted." Etc.

I've actually told her before I need some time, a few minutes. I've told her that I will always step away if she's yelling at me over text (in ALL CAPS) until she stops, because I won't engage in that. It's hard to not pick up the gauntlet when it's thrown, using a metaphor I've seen around here. I try but she knows all the buttons to push. "I guess it's over then" "Walk away forever then" "You're not denying it I guess you really like A [or B or C... .]". Like she knows exactly what to say to get me to reply. Which is probably why you're suggesting I don't even look at the texts.

I really appreciate the advice WW!

[PurpleFlower]

We got heated, or rather, she did. Said "honestly this is probably the end." And I Was so fed up with trying to depersonalize this I just went "Fine, never contact me again." And she started to block me on everything. I tried my best guys but I think it's over. I think this is it. I think she's split too far on me and it f... .n hurts like hell right now. I just lost the love of my life.

[PurpleFlower]

We seem to be talking again. She called me last night and I asked point blank if we were through and if the relationship was over and she said no. I'll keep you guys appraised of any more updates, right now I'm just trying to keep myself together. :/

This is really hard guys. It gets harder as time goes on too. I think I might have made too many mistakes :/

[Radcliff]

We all make mistakes.  You have a very challenging situation.  This is messy business.  All we can do is do our best and keep on learning.

Can you remind us how hold each of you is?

WW

[PurpleFlower]

We all make mistakes.  You have a very challenging situation.  This is messy business.  All we can do is do our best and keep on learning.

Can you remind us how hold each of you is?

All we can do is our best. True.

22, and she's 20 nearly 21. Young, younger than most here I think, most likely.

[Radcliff]

22, and she's 20 nearly 21. Young, younger than most here I think, most likely.

Yes, younger than most -- I am glad you've found us early.  You are far, far ahead of where I was at your age in understanding about BPD.

The thing that stimulated me to ask about age was you saying that her mom was not "letting" her do things.  She's technically an adult, though is likely enmeshed with her mother quite a bit.  Here mother controlling her indicated boundary trouble, which may be a contributing factor to her having difficulty with your boundaries.

How have things been going in the last day or so?

WW

[badknees1]

Hello... .if I may suggest 2 things. Moderators... let me know if I am overstepping boundries-
1. Be careful of overcommitting to this person right now. Take it slow.
2. Be mindful of your feelings. Especially during conflict with her. Are you "giving in" a lot or compromising your core values.
Keep getting support and sharing!