Feeling distant in the moment

[JNChell]

Have any of you felt some sort of distance when you were around those closest to you? I guess like being present with our people, but having to put an effort in to not feel like we are in the background. Not that we were placed there, just that we found ourselves there. Maybe this is disassociation. I think, in my case, that this can happen when I experience a family situation that is healthy and thriving. Then I kind of shut down and daydream. Have any of you experienced anything similar?

[Kwamina]

Hi JNChell

I think, in my case, that this can happen when I experience a family situation that is healthy and thriving. Then I kind of shut down and daydream.

Why do you think this only happens when you experience these kinds of situations?

Do you think it's perhaps because healthy family situations were not what you were really used to that much in your FOO and as a result these kinds of situation now might feel kind of surreal and/or make you feel uneasy?

[Harri]

It sounds like what happens to me sometimes and it is dissociation. 

Identifying why this happens, like Kwamina asked, is one of the things I work on in T.  Just knowing what is going on helps me to know for the next time to not get anxious about it which only made things worse.

[JNChell]

Hi, Kwamina.

[Why do you think this only happens when you experience these kinds of situations?

I don’t know. That’s why I’m reaching out. I have to assume that it’s due to what you’re pointing at.

Do you think it's perhaps because healthy family situations were not what you were really used to that much in your FOO and as a result these kinds of situation now might feel kind of surreal and/or make you feel uneasy?

Yes. This is how it feels. Just like compliments. I don’t feel comfortable in those situations. I don’t know how to be graceful when it happens. The weird thing is that I found myself craving recognition in my last failed relationship. I know that it’s because I never got it with her, but I’m trying to make sense of the two.

[Woolspinner2000]

Yes, I still struggle to receive compliments and praise. 

I think part of it for me is because of what Kwamina mentioned, that I didn't have it growing up. Also I think that I hated having the spotlight on me because that usually meant I was getting attention (albeit negative) because someone perceived I'd done something wrong or bad. Attention usually meant I was in BIG trouble.


 
Wools

[Learning2Thrive]

Have any of you felt some sort of distance when you were around those closest to you? I guess like being present with our people, but having to put an effort in to not feel like we are in the background. Not that we were placed there, just that we found ourselves there. Maybe this is disassociation. I think, in my case, that this can happen when I experience a family situation that is healthy and thriving. Then I kind of shut down and daydream. Have any of you experienced anything similar?

Yes. I have experienced something like this. Mine typically goes a bit further, though. When things seem to be going really good, I notice that I become hyper vigilant waiting with increasing anxiety for a bomb to explode. Nothing good was allowed to happen when I was a kid... .if I ever started to relax and enjoy something there would be an explosion and hell to pay. I learned not to fully engage in the fun because an attack was certainly incoming at any moment.

I fully believe that is why bicycling has been so therapeutic for me. It forces me to stay in the moment and focusing on the road or path in front of me, dealing with obstacles as they come.  

Being a very visual person, I’ve been able to use some of my bicycling thought processes to deal with flashbacks and conflict.

JNChell, I also have difficulty with compliments. I want to be recognized for legitimate accomplishments, like most people would. But because of the way I grew up, any compliment feels suspicious and possibly a manipulation.

Why do compliments make you feel uncomfortable?  

  L2T

[JNChell]

Hi, Harri. Thanks for confirming the dissociation. I’m starting to see this as the polar opposite of RA. RA has been a total struggle. Probably one of the hardest things I’ve ever tried to grasp and implement. My T has been vigilant on working with me to be able to ground myself as well. I think she sees the struggle.

I read on a different post today that you view yourself as a loner. The reason that I bring this up is because I started out as loner. I eventually spread my wings through good physical health, working in sales for a bit and performing live music in front of crowds. I basically forced myself out of my shell. A few bad relationships later, the last one being the cherry on top and I’m back to being full of shame, pretty introverted and fairly isolated.

Have you ever experienced anything like that?

[JNChell]

Hi, Wools!

I think part of it for me is because of what Kwamina mentioned, that I didn't have it growing up. Also I think that I hated having the spotlight on me because that usually meant I was getting attention (albeit negative) because someone perceived I'd done something wrong or bad. Attention usually meant I was in BIG trouble.

I feel you on this. Attention was usually an oh s**t moment growing up. I guess that attention has it’s place for me now, but I don’t really welcome it if it’s uninvited, if I don’t feel open to it. I guess, trust it.  This realization worries me a bit. It strikes me as me being narcissistic.

What really resonates with me, though, is that I made the transition into confidence, self health and well being, but I didn’t stay there. I guess that I wasn’t meant to. Too much unfinished business. Thanks for your support.

[Harri]

Hi!  You know, dissociation is the polar opposite or RA but I never thought of it that way until you said it.  Dissociation is a way to shut off the emotions when they become too intense (my non-pro definition!) and RA means feeling them so you can accept them.  heh.  thank you.

Do you mean have I ever put myself out there and forced myself to be around people?  If so, yes I did.  My job required it.  At the end of grad school I though about going into research and other than not wanting to do more studying I knew that me being in a lab all day would not be good for me.  Once I did start working with the public it took a bit but i eventually got comfortable.  I had a role though.  A very specific set of parameters to work within and I set the pace and called the shots so that made it easier.  I learned to fake being an extrovert.   

  I lost my ability to bounce.  I used to get hurt but I was able to put things aside and bounce.  I can't tell if the way I feel now is the cumulative effect of some lousy stuff happening or depression or maybe a combo of both.  I feel old and tired most of the time.

Is that what you mean?

Hang in there JNChell!

[JNChell]

L2T! Hello! Thank you for replying.

When things seem to be going really good, I notice that I become hyper vigilant waiting with increasing anxiety for a bomb to explode.

Yes, yes & yes! We know it’s coming. It’s such a terrible conditioning to go through as a child only to have it follow us into the real world as adults where we are responsible for ourselves, only to realize how much we’ve been let down by the 1 or 2 people that we relied upon the most.

I recognized this, postmortem, in my romantic relationships looking back. The good and positive things would eventually be squashed.

I fully believe that is why bicycling has been so therapeutic for me. It forces me to stay in the moment and focusing on the road or path in front of me, dealing with obstacles as they come.

Yes. Bicycling is yours, and yours only. I imagine that unsavory thoughts come up at times while you’re pedaling, and those thoughts help you to push harder. It’s also fact that excercize reduces cortisol production quite a bit. Add to that the nature that you’re observing on any given ride, The friends and aquaintenses that you’re establishing and simply soaking in the Sun.

[JNChell]

Harri.

At the end of grad school I though about going into research and other than not wanting to do more studying I knew that me being in a lab all day would not be good for me.  Once I did start working with the public it took a bit but i eventually got comfortable.  I had a role though.  A very specific set of parameters to work within and I set the pace and called the shots so that made it easier.  I learned to fake being an extrovert.  grin

I haven’t read your backstory, so I’m not sure if you’ve already talked about this. I’m curious. What was your major in grad school? Only if you want to share, of course.

Your humor spun my gears. For lack of better words, maybe we were just trying on a different set of clothes (referring to faking being an extrovert). Thinking on this more, I tended toward alpha male types. I guess for guidance, but not by outwardly asking them. I’d observe. My dad was a narcissist, but a total coward if broken down. He was a true child in an adult body.

Yes. The ability to bounce. It’s exhausting. I think that it’s important to have contact with the outside world. I’m trying with this. It started with me (recently) in forcing myself to hold my head up again. To not look at the floor when walking through a grocery store. I’m trying to make eye contact again and smile at women. I’m trying to reclaim my manhood. My sense of being a worthy human.

I lost my ability to bounce.  I used to get hurt but I was able to put things aside and bounce.  I can't tell if the way I feel now is the cumulative effect of some lousy stuff happening or depression or maybe a combo of both.  I feel old and tired most of the time.

Maybe you didn’t lose your ability to bounce. This is speculation, but is there a chance that your biology doesn’t want to bounce anymore? Your mentality? Lousy stuff happened and the cumulative effect is depression... .with C-PTSD. Screw bouncing, Harri. You don’t have to do that anymore. You certainly don’t need to hide away, although I relate and empathize. Allow yourself the liberties that so many people take for granted each day. Maybe try attending one of those socials if only to pick out the narcs. Test your new social skills a little. You have the power to leave the event if it becomes too overwhelming. I’m isolated with you currently. I don’t plan on staying here, though.

What you do here is amazing and appreciated. You are helping people. Just don’t forget to help yourself. Step away from the keyboard and do something for Harri.

[Harri]

Hi JNChell! 

I could tell you what I do but then I would have to kill you.  Identity protection is a serious business in these parts.

The ability to bounce. It’s exhausting. I think that it’s important to have contact with the outside world. I’m trying with this. It started with me (recently) in forcing myself to hold my head up again. To not look at the floor when walking through a grocery store. I’m trying to make eye contact again and smile at women. I’m trying to reclaim my manhood. My sense of being a worthy human.

It is exhausting!  True introverts unite!  What a great idea.  Making eye contact in the produce aisle takes courage!  Next step is to do it at the deli area!    Seriously though, it takes courage to make eye contact and you have come up with a great way to break your self imposed isolation.  I am impressed.  I have an appointment this morning and shall try this.

Maybe you didn’t lose your ability to bounce. This is speculation, but is there a chance that your biology doesn’t want to bounce anymore? Your mentality? Lousy stuff happened and the cumulative effect is depression... .with C-PTSD. Screw bouncing, Harri. You don’t have to do that anymore.

Screw bouncing?  Screw bouncing? Screw bouncing!  Wow.  I will have to think about this.  Maybe it is my mind and spirit coming together and telling me it is time to face things and rather than looking at this as if I lost something I need to think of it as progress.  ?  ?  What an exciting thought!

Thank you for your kind words.  I get a lot out of being here, far more than I give, but thank you.

Somehow this got to be all about me.  Quite the skill you have there! 

Thank you. 

[Kwamina]

Somehow this got to be all about me.  Quite the skill you have there!  

Yes, the force is strong in this one

(He also quoted the Board Parrot today in another thread so I know he's alright  )

[Harri]

JNChell, you are on the receiving end of Parrot admiration and wisdom.

It's a good thing.   

[JNChell]

I’m hoping that this is a good thing, Harri.  R2D2 is one of my favorite movie characters. A no nonsense, common sense droid. How are you this evening?

[Harri]

It absolutely is a good thing JNChell  The Board Parrot is awesome. 

I am doing very well thank you.  How are you?  You've been working really hard on some pretty difficult stuff and I tend to fret over the people here so when I ask you how you are it is sincere.  Have you been taking care of yourself?

Are you still making eye contact?  I tried it the other day when I went to my appointment... .and I smiled at a couple of people too!  It still counts if one of them is my therapist right?

Keep up the awesome work you are doing. 

[JNChell]

I’m well, Harri. Yes, I’ve been taking care of myself. Had a stressful choking incident with S3 today, but we made it through and all is good.

Eye contact is still a chore. It hasn’t returned to being a natural thing, but that’s ok. It feels good to try. Of course it counts if it’s your therapist. We start where we start. The important thing is the reason and the outcome.

We survived, Harri. I’m beginning to find grace in that. Many haven’t, and are in this world as empty souls. I feel for them, but I have no time for them. I’m realizing that even if I chose to give them my time, it wouldn’t matter. They have to choose how to use their time.

[Learning2Thrive]

We survived, Harri. I’m beginning to find grace in that. Many haven’t, and are in this world as empty souls. I feel for them, but I have no time for them. I’m realizing that even if I chose to give them my time, it wouldn’t matter. They have to choose how to use their time.

This. Yes. We can be kind, compassionate and loving. But each one of us is responsible for our own choices. Choosing not to choose is still a choice.

I know RUSH isn’t everybody’s taste, but this song comes to mind.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6mEzgc_ne60

 We are especially worthy of our own love and tender care.

  L2T

[JNChell]

L2T, this is a key thing that we were never taught. I have to admit that, at 41, all of this stuff has become pretty amazing to me. I feel like I’m in a more comfortable place. I’ve placed myself, and remained, in some very bad positions. Some terrible things have happened as a result. All I can do is sit with what I’ve done and move forward. Work through it here and with my T as well.

I feel very bad about the way that I’ve reacted to things,  that in retrospect, should have had no bearing on me.

[Learning2Thrive]

L2T, this is a key thing that we were never taught. I have to admit that, at 41, all of this stuff has become pretty amazing to me. I feel like I’m in a more comfortable place. I’ve placed myself, and remained, in some very bad positions. Some terrible things have happened as a result. All I can do is sit with what I’ve done and move forward. Work through it here and with my T as well.

I feel very bad about the way that I’ve reacted to things,  that in retrospect, should have had no bearing on me.

JNChell, I agree. And you’re right! At 53 I am still having mind blowing discoveries over stuff most healthy children are taught at a very early age.

 I too have regrets over poor choices I made before I learned. My heart still cries for those I have hurt. That is mine to own.  We are human. All of us here are at different stages, but it feels so comforting to both give and receive the support and compassion here with this kind family.

Peace be yours tonight, JNChell. You’ve been doing the hard work that leads to healing. You deserve good rest for your soul.

  L2T

[JNChell]

Do you have any hopes or desires for romantic love? I do, but I know that I can’t achieve that now. I also feel that it’s unattainable for me at this point. I would also have a lot to disclose a lot of stuff if it became serious.

[Learning2Thrive]

Do you have any hopes or desires for romantic love? I do, but I know that I can’t achieve that now. I also feel that it’s unattainable for me at this point. I would also have a lot to disclose a lot of stuff if it became serious.

You do have a skill for hitting the hot buttons, JNChell.    

The past few months I have reached a place where I *THINK* I really don’t want a romantic relationship anymore. I am currently resolved to healing myself which—for me—means I do not have enough of me to give to anyone else.

The truth is, I am still married to my husband of over 20 years. I do not believe he is BPD, but he is avoidant and has been emotionally unavailable (for the most part) since we met. Yet I believe him to be a good man with a kind heart. Oversimplified backstory for context: After more than 12 years of soul shattering loneliness in my marriage, I became friends with a beautiful (over the top BPD) lesbian who I eventually had an affair with.  The affair was never secret, husband knew all along and was complicit —I believe— because it took pressure off of him. The immense pain of silent treatment and subsequent breakup from my relationship with her brought me to bpdfamily... .and ultimately to questioning how it all came to be.  As you have parroted the Board Parrot, all boards lead to PSI.

I lived in my own apartment in the same town as husband and kids for a year (11 months of that was after the beginning of breakup from BPD person). While I drove to my house and cooked dinners, etc. at least 5 times a week to care for kids and husband, it was the first time in my adult life that I was living in a space that was only mine. I loved it. But then my apartment lease was up and I couldn’t justify the expense of the apartment anymore. I’ve been back in my house for over 5 years now.

I know I am coming to a crossroad. For now, I’m safe here focusing on healing myself and caring for my youngest son who is now a senior in high school... .and avoidant husband. I never stopped loving my husband, but I have mostly accepted he will never be able to emotionally connect with me... .he can’t remember most of his childhood it was so traumatic. I know he cares about me, but since he can’t or won’t or simply isn’t able to truly connect with himself, how could he ever connect with me?

The questions you asked, I ask myself every day. Am I ok with not ever having a romantic relationship ever again? Is it ok if I just start loving myself like crazy and being my best me while I care for and love my son and husband (albeit not really a romance for me)? Reference... .I love all 4 of my kids, but this statement refers to my current living situation.

I don’t have the answers today. I might not have them tomorrow. I’m ok with that. For now, I’m ok building on our genuine care for each other and our mutual love for our kids and working really hard to heal my own very deep, sad wounds. I guess that means I am working in shades of gray.  

  How are you doing today, JNChell?

  L2T