BPD mother won't stop What do I do?

[madeline7]

I do not have any wise words for you because I am in a similar situation where she just won't go away. So I am reading the replies to learn from them. Just wanted you to know I understand how difficult it is to set those healthy boundaries and feel like it either back fires or just doesn't seem to matter. In my case, boundary setting seems to enrage my uBPDm. I am considering making up stories so I can be "busy" and then resent that I feel I cannot be an autonomous adult with choices. Even when I am truly busy, the calls and texts are daily and I just want one day to myself where I don't have to deal with the chaos and instability of the world of the borderline.

[naturalturn]

Yes, I see how this is a big step and the feelings you have make sense... .your pushing yourself into new territory when it comes to you and your mom.  Just sit with those feelings... .no need to act on them... .they are what they are.

Your fiance is awesome!  He's definitely a keeper!

Panda39

Thank you Panda for the support  I really appreciate all the support this group gives me. I responded to SET in my reply to Turkish if you want to check it out... .

[naturalturn]

I do not have any wise words for you because I am in a similar situation where she just won't go away. So I am reading the replies to learn from them. Just wanted you to know I understand how difficult it is to set those healthy boundaries and feel like it either back fires or just doesn't seem to matter. In my case, boundary setting seems to enrage my uBPDm. I am considering making up stories so I can be "busy" and then resent that I feel I cannot be an autonomous adult with choices. Even when I am truly busy, the calls and texts are daily and I just want one day to myself where I don't have to deal with the chaos and instability of the world of the borderline.

YES this is exactly my situation! I always come up with excuses and find ways to be busy and work all the time so that I have a justifiable excuse to not see her everyday, all day like she would like. I have been doing this for a while now and struggle with inner conflict because of it that feels harder each day. Lately, she has been texting and calling less because she is unhappy with me, but they used to be non-stop all day. Now, she texts me just a few times a day or once a day, but those do always go well. I totally understand you... .

[Harri]

***Thought I would Update... .she replied to my text message that I sent telling her how I feel and said "Sorry I want to spend one-on-one time with you. I am being very selfish. I won't ask again" I can hear the sarcasm and anger dripping from this text.

Yes, I can see the sarcasm too but you do not need to respond to it (the sarcasm). 

Naturalturn, as you begin to change things you will get push back from her.  Expect it and hang on.  You are doing the right and healthy thing for you and for her though she will not see that.  None of this is easy and it will not feel good even for you as you change long held patterns of behavior and an almost reflexive desire to help and please your mother.  Making this break is natural and healthy.  Any parent would struggle a bit but a healthier parent would be able to rejoice in your ability to make a good life for yourself and see that as a sign that they did their job well.  Unfortunately, BPD/BPDish parents have a hard time with letting go.  Fear of abandonment is huge for them.  You can't fix that for her.

You have made great strides and have done very well.  It can take a long time to break the habit.  Your mother may never get it.  But that is okay.  What is important is how you manage things at your end.  Boundaries are for you and about protecting you and managing your life and your actions and your emotions.  How she responds to you setting boundaries does not determine if you have been successful in setting them.  She will fight them and resist.  Over time this can improve but it is a process.

I truly believe I have used SET for a while... but it doesn't help anything. I still feel bad, she still blames everything on me, and I just keep trying to be nice and understanding.

Lets take a look at this:  "I still feel bad."  Yes and it makes total sense that you will feel bad.  It is hard to change patterns of behavior.  It is hard to let go of the false belief that we can fix our parent or can prevent them from being triggered.  You are used to functioning under the belief that it is your job, your responsibility and within your ability to do these things.  Logically we know we can't but logic has little to do with behaviors we learned long ago as a child trying to survive in a crazy world.

It takes time and it is a process... .for *you*.  She may never become receptive to what you say.  That is okay.  It is also okay if you do not feel sympathy or compassion right now or ever again. 

Are you familiar with Mindfulness or wise mind?  Many of us here use it to help accept what we can't change about our situations. to accept what it and to be able to sit with our feelings.  Triggering, Mindfulness and Wise Mind is a great article and focuses on helping you. 

Remember avoidance has not really helped your situation.  You need to keep changing the way you have been dealing with these issues. 

Now, she texts me just a few times a day or once a day, but those do always go well. I totally understand you... .

You are seeing a decrease in her behavior so what you are doing now is working.  Keep it up.  Do not use her response or mood as a gauge of how well your boundaries are working.  And remember that often the behavior gets worse before it gets better.  Leave your moms feelings to her to deal with and manage.

[naturalturn]

Yes, I can see the sarcasm too but you do not need to respond to it (the sarcasm). 

Naturalturn, as you begin to change things you will get push back from her.  Expect it and hang on.  You are doing the right and healthy thing for you and for her though she will not see that.  None of this is easy and it will not feel good even for you as you change long held patterns of behavior and an almost reflexive desire to help and please your mother.  Making this break is natural and healthy.  Any parent would struggle a bit but a healthier parent would be able to rejoice in your ability to make a good life for yourself and see that as a sign that they did their job well.  Unfortunately, BPD/BPDish parents have a hard time with letting go.  Fear of abandonment is huge for them.  You can't fix that for her.

You have made great strides and have done very well.  It can take a long time to break the habit.  Your mother may never get it.  But that is okay.  What is important is how you manage things at your end.  Boundaries are for you and about protecting you and managing your life and your actions and your emotions.  How she responds to you setting boundaries does not determine if you have been successful in setting them.  She will fight them and resist.  Over time this can improve but it is a process.
 Lets take a look at this:  "I still feel bad."  Yes and it makes total sense that you will feel bad.  It is hard to change patterns of behavior.  It is hard to let go of the false belief that we can fix our parent or can prevent them from being triggered.  You are used to functioning under the belief that it is your job, your responsibility and within your ability to do these things.  Logically we know we can't but logic has little to do with behaviors we learned long ago as a child trying to survive in a crazy world.

It takes time and it is a process... .for *you*.  She may never become receptive to what you say.  That is okay.  It is also okay if you do not feel sympathy or compassion right now or ever again. 

Are you familiar with Mindfulness or wise mind?  Many of us here use it to help accept what we can't change about our situations. to accept what it and to be able to sit with our feelings.  Triggering, Mindfulness and Wise Mind is a great article and focuses on helping you. 

Remember avoidance has not really helped your situation.  You need to keep changing the way you have been dealing with these issues.   You are seeing a decrease in her behavior so what you are doing now is working.  Keep it up.  Do not use her response or mood as a gauge of how well your boundaries are working.  And remember that often the behavior gets worse before it gets better.  Leave your moms feelings to her to deal with and manage.

Thank you for your advice, I will look into the mindfulness/wise mind more in depth.  Thank you for reminding me that my mother's behavior does not determine how well the boundaries are working, you are right.

I didn't respond to her sarcasm, she has now texted me saying "It seems you have forgotten who you are talking to. I am your mother and I love you. I'm not asking a lot to spend one on one time with you. You are a priority in my life and I want to spend time with you. When you get sick, I'll be the one to hold your hand. That took me a long time to learn"

Do I reply? I'm trying to make change, but I also don't want to make things worse.

[Kwamina]

Hi again naturalturn

She would just twist things and keep on with her mantra "I never see you, I never spend time with you" It was like talking to a brick wall, but I was hurting myself emotionally after a while.

There are several communication techniques described on this site. S.E.T. is one of them and can indeed be very helpful in certain situation. There are however also other techniques, one that is particularly helpful in these types of situations is J.A.D.E. To be precise, the objective is to not J.A.D.E. as in not justify, argue, defend or explian:

To avoid circular conversations, don't JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain.
... .
…... the practice of having a debate with someone who has strong biases can actually have the counter-productive effect of reinforcing their biases, as they repetitively remember and state the facts from their own point of view. This is what makes the idea of JADE - Justifying, Arguing, Defending or Explaining - such a bad idea.

Instead, it is recommended that on any given issue, state your point of view once and once only. Provide any clarifications that are asked for. Anything more than this is likely to be counter productive.

This is not to suggest that you should say nothing at all or back down in an argument. It is critical to take whatever action is necessary so that you, and any children under your care, can live in a safe, happy, healthy and productive environment. It's just not that necessary to talk very much about it.

What do you think of the concept of not J.A.D.E.-ing?

The Board Parrot

[naturalturn]

Hi again naturalturn

There are several communication techniques described on this site. S.E.T. is one of them and can indeed be very helpful in certain situation. There are however also other techniques, one that is particularly helpful in these types of situations is J.A.D.E. To be precise, the objective is to not J.A.D.E. as in not justify, argue, defend or explian:

What do you think of the concept of not J.A.D.E.-ing?

The Board Parrot

Hi! 

I think JADE sounds like it could be very helpful. My father has suggested something similar in the past. I need to be thoughtful about my words to make sure I don't JADE, I think it sounds like a great technique.

Thank you!

[Panda39]

I didn't respond to her sarcasm, she has now texted me saying "It seems you have forgotten who you are talking to. I am your mother and I love you. I'm not asking a lot to spend one on one time with you. You are a priority in my life and I want to spend time with you. When you get sick, I'll be the one to hold your hand. That took me a long time to learn"

This is FOG she's giving you a guilt trip here.  This is her being unable to manage her own feelings.

You, your fiance, and brother will see her tonight for dinner right? She knows this and you know this... .If this were me I would not respond.  Frankly, where would this conversation go if you did respond? No where... .just round and round.

Panda39

[naturalturn]

This is FOG she's giving you a guilt trip here.  This is her being unable to manage her own feelings.

You, your fiance, and brother will see her tonight for dinner right? She knows this and you know this... .If this were me I would not respond.  Frankly, where would this conversation go if you did respond? No where... .just round and round.

Panda39

Thank you for pointing out the FOG, that is helpful to me and makes me feel better.

We are not meeting for dinner anymore. She called my father and told him we wouldn't be doing it because apparently I'm mad at her.

I'm fine though not going to dinner, I really didn't want to go anyway, I was just going to please her and as another attempt to have a relationship with her.

I'm thinking I should either not respond or tell her that I don't want to spend time with her alone because she makes me feel guilty, brushes off my problems, and spends the majority of the time complaining about how I'm not a child anymore and that her marriage has fallen apart. And additionally ends the meeting with how we never get to spend enough time together.

But maybe it's better to not respond?

[Harri]

I think no response would be best.  How would you say "I am no longer willing to be your pacifier?" 

I know it is hard.  Hang tight.   

[naturalturn]

I think no response would be best.  How would you say "I am no longer willing to be your pacifier?" 

I know it is hard.  Hang tight.   

Thank you   I am going out of town tomorrow through Thursday... .do you think I should continue to ignore her messages and not respond? I guess my only concern with not responding is when will I finally respond?

[Harri]

Well, see what others have to suggest but I would say to send her one text this evening and say: "I will be out of town for a few days" or something simple and short.

But like I said, wait for others to suggest stuff.  My approach tends to be more along the lines of just yanking the bandaid off.  It worked well for me but it does not apply to all situations so  I generally don't recommend it... .though i do mention it.

[Kwamina]

I would say to send her one text this evening and say: "I will be out of town for a few days" or something simple and short.

I also think this would be a good idea. Knowing your mother and her stalking behavior (showing up suddenly), you could also wait until the morning after you have already left to send this message.

[Harri]

Waiting until morning is a good idea.  I forgot about her stalking behavior.

[Learning2Thrive]

I also think this would be a good idea. Knowing your mother and her stalking behavior (showing up suddenly), you could also wait until the morning after you have already left to send this message.

Yes to waiting to send the message until after you’ve left.

What if you were more ambiguous about your return day? Could you say you won’t be back until the end of the week?

Would it make sense to tell her you may not have cell service while you are gone but you will get in touch with her once you are back?

  L2T

[naturalturn]

I can definitely wait until tomorrow and I can tell her I won't have phone service... .I honestly probably won't. Maybe something like "I'm will be out of town for the next few days and most likely won't have service."

Could I get away with not texting at all? That was my father's suggestion. I told her last Saturday we would be out of town this Sunday-Thursday, but most things go in one ear and out the other with her, all she did was question me on why I hadn't told her earlier.

[Learning2Thrive]

Does she know where you’re going? Was this something she was aware of previously?

[Learning2Thrive]

I can definitely wait until tomorrow and I can tell her I won't have phone service... .I honestly probably won't. Maybe something like "I'm will be out of town for the next few days and most likely won't have service."

Could I get away with not texting at all? That was my father's suggestion. I told her last Saturday we would be out of town this Sunday-Thursday, but most things go in one ear and out the other with her, all she did was question me on why I hadn't told her earlier.

I think that’s definitely an option, but it may trigger her feelings of abandonment if she doesn’t remember what you told her about going away. That said, you are NOT responsible for managing her feelings. It’s just that you may want to be aware of escalation and be prepared upon your return/when you do see her again.

 I hope you have a WONDERFUL TIME away.

  L2T

[naturalturn]

I think that’s definitely an option, but it may trigger her feelings of abandonment if she doesn’t remember what you told her about going away. That said, you are NOT responsible for managing her feelings. It’s just that you may want to be aware of escalation and be prepared upon your return/when you do see her again.

 I hope you have a WONDERFUL TIME away.

  L2T

I told her the town we are going to in the mountains last Saturday, but she may very well have forgotten. When I don't text her while I am there, she definitely will have feelings of abandonment whether I let her know I am leaving or not. This whole conflict started because she got upset that I didn't text her back within 20-30 mins.

I'm thinking to block her number while I am out of town so I can not worry about her. I guess I should send her a going away text if I block her number anyway... .

Thank you! I'm excited!  <3

[Panda39]

Keep those boundaries coming!

I like the plan.  You can try using BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm) when you send her that final text once you're on your way.  Then block those text messages and have a wonderful time.

Panda39

[naturalturn]

Keep those boundaries coming!

I like the plan.  You can try using BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm) when you send her that final text once you're on your way.  Then block those text messages and have a wonderful time.

Panda39

BIFF sounds like a good technique as well! I'll keep that in mind. Maybe something like "I will be out of town the next few days and most likely will not have cell service." Should I add something nice? Like "Hope you have a nice week."

 Yes, even just realizing that I don't have to respond to her today feels so freeing. I have felt so obligated to keep her happy and always respond to her and always respond in a nice way. Not feeling those obligations feels great  

[Panda39]

"I will be out of town the next few days and most likely will not have cell service, hope you have a nice week."

This is perfect, have a great time.

Panda39

[naturalturn]

"I will be out of town the next few days and most likely will not have cell service, hope you have a nice week."

This is perfect, have a great time.

Panda39

Thank you Panda! I greatly appreciate your response and support. 

[Learning2Thrive]

I agree with our wise Panda.

Enjoy your time away.

   L2T

[Harri]

This thread has been locked as it has reached the post limit.  Please feel free to continue this conversation in a continuation thread and let us know how your trip went.  ;)