How to ask the question - is it really over?

[BreatheFirst]

I would like to ask my (ex) partner (separated 3 months, minimal contact) if it is truly over.  I do not want to come across as begging and I'm not sure if its truly what I want but would like to ask where he is sitting/feeling on this issue?

Does anyone have any suggestions how I could go about having that conversation and what could I say? 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Chosen]

Hi BreatheFirst,

Who initiated the separation?  Are you asking so that you could get back together, or do you want to move on?  Personally, I think that if there hasn't been much contact over 3 months, and if you're not looking to continue/ rekindle the relationship, then there's no need to ask if it's over... .if you want it to be over and it seems to be over, then just don't respond if your partner tries to re-engage.  Of course, if you would like to have the relationship it's a different issue.
Please share more with us so we could give you some suggestions. 

[BreatheFirst]

Hi Chosen

He left. I think I might want to get back together but I am a bit torn as I don't want to be treated the same way with the abuse, mood changes and rages.

There were some good parts to the relationship. And he wasn't all bad. I feel we hadn't given our relationship enough attention as we were busy with young kids, work and elderly parents to look after. I want our family unit to be together too. I have to weigh up whats best for me and the kids for the future.

I'd be grateful for any guidance in tackling this.

[pearlsw]

Hi BreatheFirst,

Chosen has offered some great ideas here!

Let me add, I think if you haven't spoken at all in the last three months, you wouldn't want the next conversation to start off with "Are we still a couple?" or "Can we get back together?"

Why did he leave? Can you describe the circumstances around this? I ask because he may carry some lingering resentment, anger or hurt, perhaps you do too?

It sounds like there was enough good, that it counterbalances a lot of the bad for you. How do you think he'd weigh this?

Also, do you have idea if he has started a new relationship?

wishing you the best, pearl.

[BreatheFirst]

Hi Pearlsw

I agree those wouldn't be good conversation starters .

He moved out after a fight where I told him to stop being abusive. He said he couldn't live with someone who thinks he's abusive. We have 2 children together. I think we both have lingering hurt, resentment and anger. Me because he has broken up 4 times before and put me through 4 weeks of silent treatment each time, plus emotional abusive behaviour plus cheating. On his side i would say he resents that I am not the perfect Stepford wife and that i dared call him out on his behaviour. He feels he has tried very hard to be a good partner.  He doesn't see any problem on his part.

I think he would probably weigh it differently. He was alwsts very critical of me and not that committed to the relationship as evidenced by the break ups and looki g up past shirt term girlfriends.

I have no idea if he had started a new relationship but its a possibility going on past history. He re-joined a dating website a week after one break up.

Should i just let it go?

[pearlsw]

Hi Pearlsw

I agree those wouldn't be good conversation starters .

Should i just let it go?

Hi BreatheFirst,

Ha! You made me smile!  

We officially can't offer stay or leave messages.  Nice try! If you read the boards around here you'll often see many of us probably have good sets of reasons to both stay and leave! I know I do!

My SO has said the same thing to me a few times when I've mentioned the word "abuse". Yep. That is tough when that enters into the picture! It's hard when mental health crosses the line into abuse because all those feelings of wanting to stay no matter what, or being there for a partner's health problems, get trumped by abuse I think. It's up to you to find that breaking point... .where recovery seems possible, but you are also safe.

I think whatever happens romantically, you could still benefit from good communication! We have a lot of material to read and discuss that can help you develop a working approach, knowing that you may be using multiple strategies!

Crisis times are particularly hard, but it is good to have these tools become part of your normal way of operating/communicating.

Are you in contact at all? Is he interacting with the kids much?

take care, pearl.

[BreatheFirst]

Sorry I just meant should I drop the idea. It all feels a bit hopeless/pointless. How would tge behavior ever change?

Our contact is only via email or text. He has the kids e very second weekend and one night a week so is spending time with them.

Thanjs
BreatheFirst

[pearlsw]

Sorry I just meant should I drop the idea. It all feels a bit hopeless/pointless. How would tge behavior ever change?

Our contact is only via email or text. He has the kids e very second weekend and one night a week so is spending time with them.

Thanjs
BreatheFirst

Hi BreatheFirst,

I know it sounds counter intuitive given that our partners cause so much turmoil, but a lot of the "change" that is possible actually comes from the work we do on ourselves. There is a lot of great information about communication on the site and if you study it and practice you could see some improvements, or at least not make things worse. Him changing is another thing. If he behave differently it will affect how he behaves, if he wants to do some self-work he'd likely need the help of a counselor who specializes in BPD. But at the least, I would recommend you do the part of this you have control over - your own self-work.

Is that something that you might be interested in?

Have you seen any of these resources:

Supporting Your BPD Partner
Behaviors: How it Feels to Have BPD
Being An Emotional Caregiver

warmly, pearl.

[BreatheFirst]

Thanks I will check those out.  As we don't interact much, any change in me will have minimal impact with him I figure.

I am still considering having a conversation with im but need some ideas on how to open up a conversation, even one with just small talk.  He seems very shut down and not open to it.  Perhaps I need to write an email?

[BreatheFirst]

Does any one have any suggetions on how I could start a conversation or an email to him to sus out the state of play?

thanks

[pearlsw]

Thanks I will check those out.  As we don't interact much, any change in me will have minimal impact with him I figure.

I am still considering having a conversation with im but need some ideas on how to open up a conversation, even one with just small talk.  He seems very shut down and not open to it.  Perhaps I need to write an email?

Hi BreatheFirst,

Are the kids you have ones you have with him in common? Is he or does he consider himself a parent to the kids?

Do you know where he is living, what his living situation is?

Is there any pretense for contact other than you wanting to know how he is doing?

If so, perhaps just letting him know you are thinking of him and hope he is well is a basic start that gives him the choice to reply or not. It is about as low pressure as it gets. It would give him a chance to offer a minimal reply and then you can follow it up a bit more,  bit by bit. I think the key is low pressure and not triggering any anger if you can help it!

sincerely, pearl.

[BreatheFirst]

They are our kids and I see him each week at pick up/drop offs. I know where he is living.

Thanks for your suggestion, however he will not respond well to a "hi how are you" message. I am sure he will not reply to it. Contact with him needs to be directed and purposeful.   I need a entry to start a productive talk with him but I am unsure how to phrase it - my only though at the moment is to either call or send a text saying "can we talk"

Are there any other ideas for openings that might work to open up a conversation?

[Chosen]

Hi BreatheFirst,

It is so frustrating when our pwBPDs leave and leave us hanging, right?  I've had that numerous times too.  Re: sending an email, it really depends if you're used to emailing him/ communicating with him via the written word, as my uBPDh would "interpret" my words as something negative almost every single time when he's dysregulated.  When he isn't, my words wouldn't offend him; when he is, whatever I write will seem to him as offensive.  What's worse for emails is that he can keep a copy and keep on going back to it, "proving" his point.  This is why I tend to keep the written stuff short and sweet now- less words, less chance of him "misunderstanding" it. 

If you choose to contact him, can something related to the kids be the topic?  Like something you have observed with the kids lately, or just to let him know that the kids are interested in doing x, just thought he should know?  Would he respond to those things?

[Enabler]

Hey BreatheFirst,

Question, did you mean it when you said "Stop abusing me" to him?

How do you feel that he abused you?

By determining the answers to these questions I believe that you may find yourself in a position where you can first decide whether the behavior was more than you are prepared to tolerate going forward. Since you cannot expect him to change it would seem to me that working out what your values were and whether or not there was any compatibility BEFORE deciding to engage in a relationship conversation. There are 2 conversations to be had each going in different directions. One formalising the separation and how to go forward, the other to seek resolution.

Unfortunately, pwBPD have tendency to keep their options open. I'm not sure whether or not this is malicious in intent and maybe more a result of constantly fluctuating feelings about the everything. The security you provide as an option maybe comforting to him and it would appear you have a history of taking him back or getting back together. The limbo possibly suits him.

What would it say to him if you opened a dialogue about getting back together without addressing your feelings of being abused?

Enabler

[Insom]

Hi, BreatheFirst.

I get how frustrating it feels to desire a certain type of productive conversation and not know how to achieve it. 

How do you feel about waiting a bit longer before reaching out?  I hear you feel some urgency around this.  At the same time, it sounds like you've got a lot going on emotionally that you could use some extra time to sort out.

[BreatheFirst]

Thanks for the replies.

Insom, yes I defi itely have a lot to sort out and I think waiting is a good ixea. My feelings this week fluctuate and today after receiving more lawyers letters, I'm feeling angry and not wanting to talk to him at all. I think I will wait a bit longer. Thanks for suggesting that.

Enabler, you've posed some great questions to give me pause for thought. Yes I did mean it. I had been reading up on BPD/NPD plus Lundy Bancrofts book on angry and abusive men and I was starting to open my eyes to his bad behaviours. In our relationship he had given me the silent treatment for days at a time, he hadsaid some awful things to me, been intimidating, ticked pretty much all the boxes for emotional abuse as well as cheated on me in addition to breaking up and then wanting to come back 4 times.

I was sick of the behaviour and was reaching my limit.  I reallh though we were compatible but now am questioning that maybe we do have a difference in values. Thank you for framing it that way. It makes a bit more sense to me  now. I value fidelity he obviously has a different view as car as he is concerned. I value family. He doesn't.

You're right about needing to tackle the abuse part before even  considering reconciliation  conversations. Thank you for providing me some clarity and things to think about, much appreciated!

[Enabler]

You're right about needing to tackle the abuse part before even  considering reconciliation  conversations.

I completely agree that you need to discuss the abuse question before any discussions about reconciliation happens. However, the question I was prompting was that was is there a line in the sand that he has crossed re the abuse. Whatever is discussed re your experience of abuse, is there anything that he can give you that will be enough? Deciding what it is you need (and is realistic), makes the discussion worthwhile. If you decide his behavior is utterly unacceptable and no amount of action or reassurance would be enough, discussions about your experience and then reconciliation is futile.

What if any actions and assurances would you need from him to continue the relationship?

Enabler

[BreatheFirst]

I think he would have to realise what he is doing constitutes abuse. He thinks ths silent treatment is ok and the other ways he behaves. If he could interact and communicate reasonable  that would be good. So essentially he would need to be willing to look at his behaviour and modicy it. The cheating would have to never happen again... .but how do I gain reassuranc e on that one.  I'm not sure.

[Insom]

So essentially he would need to be willing to look at his behaviour and modicy it. The cheating would have to never happen again... .but how do I gain reassuranc e on that one.  I'm not sure.

Good job defining your boundaries here, BreatheFirst!     Have you heard of Dialectical Behavioral Therapy?  Some patients with BPD have found it healing.  Patient has to be willing to change.