I think she is frustrated and wants to talk...interesting sex email

[formflier]

Big picture:  This is first full day of school for my wife.  Tomorrow kids go back.  She is frustrated by all this, although she is ready and well prepared.  (she is very good teacher, top of school test scores... etc etc)

Email from mrs FF.  Near as I can tell she wrote it earlier... and then "forwarded it" from her own email account.  It showed up to me as a "FWD".

I have tried talking to you about what I want/need sexually. It does not appear you have listened or maybe you just don't care. You are selfish in bed.  You know what foreplay is, you know men are turned on by what they see and women by your actions/words toward us. I have told you explicitly that for me being touched is helpful. I don't understand why you instead choose to pump away until you have an orgasm and then roll over and lay there with a hand on my boob, unmoving while I am expected to please myself. My desire for sex has become virtually nonexistent because of it. When we are in counseling the sex is good... .I can only assessment now that's because you know we will discuss it and you want me to say you are good in bed. Because whenhen no one is asking you don't seem to care about whether or not I get any pleasure out of it. I suppose like everything else we won't talk about it. Just wanted you to know how life is for me in every area of our marriage.

Near as I can tell, she is complaining about our last sex 2 nights ago.  It was a bit unusual in that I orgasmed pretty quickly. 

I can go into details if it is needed... .but I think she is frustrated by this and lots of other stuff and really just wants to talk.

My initial goal for this post is help with  a validating email response... basically saying let's talk later.

FF

[formflier]

Thanks for starting a conversation.  Want to go for a walk and talk later this evening, or perhaps go out for a bite to eat?

This response indicates willingness to talk... .hands a couple solutions to  talk to her... and leaves it at that.

I could offer a massage and talk... .but she generally doesn't want to chat during those... .and wouldn't that be invalidating... .since I "never" do that (umm... .facts to the contrary)... .

FF

[PeteWitsend]

... .


Near as I can tell, she is complaining about our last sex 2 nights ago.  It was a bit unusual in that I orgasmed pretty quickly. 

I can go into details if it is needed... .but I think she is frustrated by this and lots of other stuff and really just wants to talk.

My initial goal for this post is help with  a validating email response... basically saying let's talk later.

FF

I would agree with that approach. 

She should probably brush it off as an aberration, but maybe given the stress of other things going on in her life, like anxienty over the new school year, she is focused on sending emails out like this, so she can feel "control" over something.  I don't know. 

at least then, if that doesn't do it, you'll know there's something else bothering her you can get at.

[PeteWitsend]

This response indicates willingness to talk... .hands a couple solutions to  talk to her... and leaves it at that.

I could offer a massage and talk... .but she generally doesn't want to chat during those... .and wouldn't that be invalidating... .since I "never" do that (umm... .facts to the contrary)... .

FF

sounds very formal.  I get your intent to be direct, but maybe soften it up with a "babe" or "sweetie."

or make a joke about knowing you finished too quick? 

although I learned the hard way humor is notoriously difficult to come through correctly in email/text.  might be better to make that in person or over the phone so if she misreads it, she's not going to stew over it and derail the conversation with a long rant about how "all you care about is sex" or some nonsense like that.

[Woodchuck]

This response indicates willingness to talk... .hands a couple solutions to  talk to her... and leaves it at that.

I could offer a massage and talk... .but she generally doesn't want to chat during those... .and wouldn't that be invalidating... .since I "never" do that (umm... .facts to the contrary)... .

FF

Wow... .that sounds familiar exact the exact opposite in my relationship. I am told that she doesn’t want me to focus on her and would rather me just focus on me and what I want but then when I tell her what I want, she says no and it is not like I am asking her for anything crazy or abnormal.  Anyway, I think it would be important to communicate that you understand that she feels that you were being selfish and not paying attention to her needs/pleasure.  While the facts are probably different from how she feels, she still feels that way and that has to be validated.  You could follow that up with telling her that you want her to receive the pleasure she desires and ask her how you can better meet that need.  I don’t know if that will work as I highly doubt that question would be effective in my relationship.  This has been a contentious topic in our relationship for quite some time and has gotten to a point where sex is hardly enjoyable as it is almost nothing more than a physical interaction. I hope it does not go that way for you and you are able to reach her and work through things.  Good luck!

WC

[formflier]

sounds very formal.  I get your intent to be direct, but maybe soften it up with a "babe" or "sweetie."

 

Solid point here... .I need to "keep it light"

[formflier]

Hey Babe... .thanks for starting the conversation.

Want to do a walk and talk or perhaps go out to eat later this evening?

Thoughts?

how do I add some validation?

[formflier]

I heard back via email from my P... .she suggested acknowledging that the first week could be especially hectic


Here is my latest draft (as you can tell... I'm in overthinking mode... .but I actually think this helps me send something better)

Hey babe... thanks for starting the conversation.  I realize this week is especially hectic, especially for you... .so perhaps later in the week would be good to "plan for" time to talk more about this. 

If you have time earlier for a walk and talk or a quick bite at steak and shake, let me know.

[Notwendy]

I can relate to the occasional lapse in the usual pattern. For me this has resulted in the "we never have sex" statements. Those have felt really hurtful. I also fell into the same pattern as cooking- doing it out of fear, or to prove the "never " is not true.

I don't know about the talking about it. That hasn't seemed to help and has often turned into circular arguments. The "never" is a feeling in the moment, and trying to talk about it just hasn't helped with me.

I sometimes have turned to humor. " I guess I have some explaining to do about how the kids got here" has sometimes stopped this from turning into a huge discussion/argument that has no resolution, because it's a feeling in the moment.

The other issue that has been difficult is the natural course of things over time. We aren't 25 and neither are you and your wife. Both of us have had some physical changes as hormones have changed. I think this is a natural shift that couples adjust to over time, but I think it is difficult when there is dysfunction. Sometimes things don't "work like they used to" and with a man, that is more obvious and so emotionally tougher to face. It was a rough spot for us- my H wouldn't talk about it and sometimes blamed it on me. For women, the diminishing levels of hormones makes arousal and orgasm tougher. The parts still work, but it may take more of the cuddling, foreplay than before. Just as my H at first blamed me, your wife is at the age where she is staring to experience this and may be assuming it is you. These last few episodes may have triggered this.

You are one of the luckier guys I've seen on this board as your wife is still interested. I think it is good that she has reached out to you. Whatever her reason, I would not invalidate her or defend yourself or JADE. I also don't think you need to prove her wrong. If she wants to talk, I would listen, hear her, and not try to fix it in the conversation. Remember the Mars/Venus book- women talk to work out their feelings, while men try to fix the issue which invalidates them.

Then, as the Nike commercial says " Just do it". Seriously- romance, flowers, whatever she says she feels is lacking. It might be a good time for both of you. It may not be your fault at all- she may be needing more than she used to.

Both men and women have diminishing hormones after a certain age and the changes are normal, but not always easy emotionally. Your wife may be struggling with something and need your support with that. You might have to change things up a bit, but you're a lucky guy that she is interested.

[Notwendy]

Your wife also uses sex to self soothe. If this week is hectic and stressful, she may be wanting more of it. I know you want to feel like you are more than a provider of this but considering what people do to self soothe, this one isn't all bad. 

[formflier]

  this one isn't all bad. 

This is true... .I get it that I have "problems" that others would love to have.

So... .I'm going to send the email here soon... .but my plan is to offer massage and "her way" sex a bunch this week.

If we talk... fine.  If not... fine.

My wife has more orgasms now... .and more consistently... .than she ever has had before.  I have less.  There are many times that I "let her go first" and then after that the pain level is such for me, that it's just not going to happen.  I still enjoy the experience.  Many times I can take a break for a while and then "finish up".

So... .truth of the matter is that it's unusual for us to have a quickie where I'm done fast and still trying to "help her out" after my orgasm.

Like most guys... .I need to rest for a bit.  Add on top of that... .that many times things hurt and then aren't "covered up" by the pleasure... well... it takes me a while.  That's frustrating for us both.

Yet... .in my wife's mind (at least how she expresses it)  "I'm not disabled.  I've "chosen" to not work... .etc etc."

I do have empathy for her and others that try to figure out my disability, because there are times when I can have sex, orgasm... and keep "helping out" (that is not the norm... .but it's also not "unusual")

That's the thing... .I never know.  It's more often that I know ahead of time this won't go well, but many times I think I'm fine (no pain) and quickly figure out that pain is showing up.

Anyway... about to send the email

FF

[Notwendy]

Your wife is lucky- and she probably still has some hormones!  What is common in women past menopause is painful sex as the tissues get thinner from lack of estrogen. There are some ways to treat it but doctors are very hesitant to use a lot of hormones after studies showed they caused complications.

I think pwBPD have a poor sense of self and low self concept. They don't see that as coming from them but they see "proof" of that in the people they are most intimate with. It seems that my H has a message in his head that he is worthless and rejected- and sees my behavior as proof of that, even if it isn't intended. It's as if anything can trigger that message. It doesn't matter what my reason is- no dinner on the table because the kids had a soccer tournament = you don't love me, no sex one night= you don't love me. I just listen as the feeling is in the moment. When not feeling this, he knows what he says isn't true.

Although your wife is higher functioning than my mother, I was completely baffled at the time that my father was ill and she thought he was doing this to her on purpose. I didn't understand much about BPD at the time. I know that his "doing things for her" were a source of affirmation for her, and when he didn't, she interpreted this as a non affirmation and he was doing this on purpose. Although your wife is higher functioning than my mother ( and so is my H) I realize that somehow they see "rejection " when it isn't there in certain actions and also see affirmation in some of them. Not doing them is "proof" to them that you are rejecting them. The reality was that my father wanted to do them but was too sick. My mother could not see that because of how she thinks. Because of what I observed, I don't think your can always see your pain- especially because it isn't really visible but also I think it is because she sees her own pain and it is hard for her to see past that. I think there may be times she can logically see it but at other times, emotions take over.

I think my H gets menopause most of the time. He has seen me struggle with some of the challenges and knows that I discuss it with my doctor but I think at times his "rejection button" takes over his logic. Feelings are facts but they don't last long. You may need to be creative if the pain gets to you. But expecting your wife to understand that the physical aspect isn't something you are doing on purpose may be not be a realistic one.

[PeteWitsend]

Thoughts?

how do I add some validation?

I was thinking something like:

"Hey [insert pet name for wife], is this about the quick finish last night, LOL?  [insert joke?  maybe?]  Seriously though, I hear you.  That surprised me too. maybe we can figure out a way to add some [spice? whatever you want to call it].  let's discuss tonight... .in bed"

I wouldn't ham it up too much, if that's not how you usually talk, or she'll key on that and derail the convo...  

I never used smileys, emojis, or anything before I met my wife, and she would flip out and call me "cold" and "rude" when I communicated by text.  I had to make an effort to "sweeten" my language for her. 

If I didn't, ordinary communications like "Let's do dinner tonight?" would explode into heated arguments over whether I really wanted to spend time with her, or love her. 

one of many changes I unwittingly made to accommodate her "special needs... ."

[Red5]

//prologue/forward//: "If you can't laugh at "it", your a dead man !"

My W also complains from time to time about not getting enough sex, ie' not getting "it" enough, .so she will flirt with me, .and tell me as such, .hint hint hint... ... .but when I call her bluff, usually, she ain't interested  ... .

We are both fifty’ish now... .certainly not the energizer bunnies we were ten years ago at forty’ish; when we first met and started to date.

Add in that she has had some very significant medical problems over the last two plus years, .and add BPD’sim’s, and just general life “stuff”… and there you have it, a drought !

Pete is on the mark,  … add “ham”… but not too much “ham”, remember, size does not matter  …

Like most guys... .I need to rest for a bit.  And on top of that…

Yes!… key word there, “top”… said another way, “let her drive” FF  !... .yes, as Woodchuck writes below... .

... .follow that up with telling her that you want her to receive the pleasure she desires,

Anyways, what do they say, a man thinks with his ____, and a woman thinks wither her ____, the last time my W brought “it” up, I said to her, sweetie (ham)… you know how it works, just like one of them one armed bandits out in Vegas, so if you want to hit the ole’ jack-pot, just reach up (or down), depending on if you’re sitting or standing (?), grab ahold of that thing (lever on one armed bandit), and give it a good hard pull !… and see if you win the big jack-pot… … like out on the Vegas strip, Red5 is always open for business… I got her to smile at least… yeah, .I continued, .anything that requires reading instructions, or some assembly; may require a daze notice, .

I hear you FF, sometimes I have a short fuze too, as Notwendy wrties... .I also think it's "age", .I still have the urge, I sure do, .but sometimes my "safety" don't work, luckily, but Red5 always comes through, and rises to the occasion, and Red5W never even notices ?

Yes, reach down and grab ahold of your inner mischievous teenager, .with the Playboys hidden between his mattresses, . and visions of Wonder Woman flying through his brain housing group… yes, turn on the LADY killer CHARM, .ham it up some!, well maybe ham it up a "little", no;… not too much ham now... .an easy day FF !

Hmmm, Vegas  ... .as a retired Naval Aviator, you will appreciate this short video; https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=F5qqfsQGYus

At least you’re still on the flight schedule… to Vegas !  

Maybe I should write a checklist for this... .Ok, this was fun, ... .but back to work now, I’ve said quite enough  !… ya’ll have a great day !

Good luck FF !

Red5 out,

[zachira]

Speaking for myself, and what may be many women's and possibly some men's point of view, it is not about the sex but connection and having our feelings validated in the moment. It is easy to get disconnected from our partner at any moment during a relationship and some of those disconnections are more painful than others, and we are never going to be able to validate our partner 100% of the time. It is how couples heal the disconnects that happen from time to time that make a healthy relationship.
Speaking for myself, I really dislike it when a man treats my body like some kind of machine (and there are women that do this to men as well.). In other words, tell me what to do so I can turn you on. I want a man to feel me as a person, and to notice how I am responding to him emotionally and sexually. I want to be seen, felt, and heard. During sex, there will naturally be some disconnects between both partners, and it is how these disconnects are repaired that can heal the hurt that happens. It usually works best to notice the disconnects in the moment, better than doing it later, and sometimes we will have to do the repair later, because they didn't get addressed in the moment.
I don't know if any of this is helpful. These are my thoughts, and may not be relevant. You and your wife are the experts on what is going on in your relationship, and I won't be offended if you don't find any of this relevant.
Keep us posted, as you have brought up a topic that is important and difficult for people to talk about.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi FF-

I sure hope I’m not being too explicit... .

OK, my 2 cents for what it’s worth... .and I’m 60, but thankfully NOT dead in that department yet!  And I have an estrogen patch to prove it!  (Since they removed all my internal “parts” 14 years ago.). I would joke with exuBPDbf that if he made me mad enough I would rip off that patch and fly around the room.  He thought that was hysterical.

There’s something that men seem to miss about sex, I don’t know why, but my husband of 19 years didn’t understand it and my (ex)uBPDbf didn’t understand it either.  Teasing the lady bits. 

You don’t have to twist and bend your aching body for hours on end to please your woman.  An “unethical” massage with some nice oil is amazing... .but don’t go for the kill right off the bat.  Tease, be in the neighborhood, but take a little while before you knock on the door so to speak.  Many men think we just want them to grab ahold of the target from the get-go... .but I don’t!  And while you’re giving this unethical massage, you’re making eye contact and talking to her.   She’s facing up -  looking at you.  You can both be in any state of undress you’d like... .And you’re NOT doing a full body massage, so it’s not rough on you. 

You can change it up at times.  Sometimes you start by brushing her hair and working your way down.  Sometimes you start with a bubble bath.  But you ALWAYS start clean. 

And guys... .drink pineapple juice every now and then.  And eat fruit and other  “clean” food.  It makes a HUGE difference.

Perhaps if you try some of these suggestions You won’t need an email?

Have fun.  Sex is mattress polo.  Man... .I miss playing.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Enabler]

W was somewhat taken back when I informed her that I had not once in 20 years declined sex... .not one single time. She on the other hand used sex as a control tool for years and years. She introduced various 'rules' for my benefit, although these 'rules' (despite my protest) were ultimately things that took away from my 'performance'. Rules were as follows:

- No cunning linguists - something she definitely enjoyed and I definitely enjoyed her enjoying
- No reload - frustrating since I'm usually pretty rev'ed up due to the rarity so it felt like a constant battle of nature and actually unpleasurable (I take at least 50% of my sexual satisfaction from my sense of her sexual satisfaction)... .she claimed it wasn't as good for me on subsequent reloads so we should stop there... .this made me feel like a constant disappointment which was in complete contrast to the idealisation phase when I felt like the stud of the universe... .we're talking 8x a day and her popping orgasms like a bingo machine. I have no health impediments and definitely have it in me. Felt like a form of self harm by her. "I don't want to want to enjoy you".
- I always have to be on top, doing the work
- She will not come on to me, and the closest I get to her coming on to me is a text from upstairs. Bit surprising really, as all it would have taken was for her to grab my crotch.
- Retains the right to claim our lacking sex life was my fault
- If I broke the rules above there would be a protest, she'd go with it then it would be perceived as me 'not taking no for an answer'.

Oh... .and for a bit of a background, I was a virgin when I met her and her first come on in a student bar was to grab my 'member' whilst I was talking to someone. She knows/knew what she wanted and knows/knew how to get it.

This seems to have turned into a sexual show and tell!

[BasementDweller]

I've been lurking and trying to resist jumping in here, but my sophomoric sense of humor always gets the better of me. I have nothing terribly wise to say, other than this is one of the best threads I have ever read on BPD family. Gemsforeyes makes a lot of sense, and this is probably the one area that my BPDex and I... .well let's just say, I'd take back at least 80 percent of his crazy to have... .*that* back. But alas... .I'm pretty sure I'll enter the nunnery now, because I'm more or less ruined, I think. Why did he have to be so off his rocker? 

But FF, I like the advice of making it lighthearted, thanking her for bringing up the conversation, and making a dinner date to talk about it. I'd say that while she didn't word it in the nicest way possible - she is genuinely trying to convey some concerns she has about the intimacy factor. As others have mentioned, the fact that you have been together as long as you have, and despite her BPD, she is still interested - that's great. Even if you have a bad back, it doesn't always have to do with you being a gymnast - there are so many other fantastic things two people can do together. This might be a really good time to open up a dialog with her and hopefully improve things in this one area. If she takes a nasty tone, then you know you tried, but maybe, just maybe, it might work to have that discussion and see where it leads.

Have you approached the topic with her yet since you got the email?

Enabler... .I'm sorry to hear this. Yikes. While I can say I've had occasions where I've pulled the "I'm tired, you be on top" card... .the rest of it... .

WHAAAAAAAAT?

Gemsforeyes: I sprayed Diet Coke out my nostrils and all over my work computer when I read the phrase "unethical massage". Thank you for making my day.   

[Notwendy]

BPD affects the most intimate relationships the most, and so it isn't a surprise to see it affect the bedroom. Whatever issues and /or misguided ideas about sex and any difficulty managing emotions that we have to begin with are going to play out there. With a lifetime of marriage- there are going to be times when one person is interested and the other isn't - for various reasons. Hopefully it isn't too often but it does happen. Being turned down is hurtful. A person who can manage this hurt will be able to self soothe- "hey, he/she isn't feeling well, but we have a loving relationship and there will be a next time". The person who is triggered by this or who can't manage the hurtful feelings will respond differently- feel rejected and if they have BPD- may lash out and hurt their partner with their own hurt feelings.

I think this is behind some of the more hurtful issues in my own marriage. We did pretty well in the beginning- every relationship does. Then you settle into real life. For me it was pregnancy and nausea. I assumed my H would understand the drop in frequency and I had no clue about the impact this had on him and how he would react. He reacted by paying it back- rejecting me to hurt me back and it started a cycle of hurt between us. I only wish I knew then what I knew now as I had no clue.

I think Empath's wife has these "rules" as a form of self protection from feeling hurt. She may have come on as an experienced woman, but sometimes sexual acting out is a form of dealing with inner hurts. I would say that was pretty bold and even possibly a red flag for poor boundaries to walk up to someone and grab them like that. There is also a sense of power and control to be able to do this to a guy. I also wonder if she feels any sense of shame for being a forward woman- you are religious and you were a virgin, but she apparently was not? Seems you two started on the wild side and she's now made rules to keep things missionary.

I don't think it helps to point out that you didn't once turn her down. I think it can feel invalidating to her. The rules may be some form of self protection and also come from a need for control. I also don't think it helps to  set the glory days of the honeymoon phase as a standard. That would be tough to live up to over the course of a lifetime together.

Another aspect of sexual acting out is the possibility of some form of sexual abuse when she was younger. It may have been easier to act out with a stranger but not with an intimate partner. On the other hand ,I can see how this pattern leads to resentment. You want some of the thrill back but to get to that, you might need to see past the resentment at what is going on with her. That could be a lot to ask for but there might be a payoff. It's good she is still interested- if text messages help protect her feelings- well that's at least an invitation.

[formflier]

So... to recap.  Here is what she sent.

I have tried talking to you about what I want/need sexually. It does not appear you have listened or maybe you just don't care. You are selfish in bed.  You know what foreplay is, you know men are turned on by what they see and women by your actions/words toward us. I have told you explicitly that for me being touched is helpful. I don't understand why you instead choose to pump away until you have an orgasm and then roll over and lay there with a hand on my boob, unmoving while I am expected to please myself. My desire for sex has become virtually nonexistent because of it. When we are in counseling the sex is good... .I can only assessment now that's because you know we will discuss it and you want me to say you are good in bed. Because whenhen no one is asking you don't seem to care about whether or not I get any pleasure out of it. I suppose like everything else we won't talk about it. Just wanted you to know how life is for me in every area of our marriage.

Here is what I sent her... a couple hours later.  I followed this with several other emails.

Hey babe... .thanks for starting the conversation.  I realize this week is hectic, especially for you... .so perhaps later in the week would be good to "plan for' a time to talk more about this.

If you have time earlier (even tonight) for a walk and talk or a quick bite a steak and shake, let me know.  I'll take my cues from you.

Love,

FF

And... .she replies... .wait for it.  In fact... got get a drink and something to eat... this will take a while to digest. 

She sends this a couple hours later.  There had been some emailing back and forth about admin things. 

Sounds great.

[formflier]

So... .first day is always weird.  I took kiddos to the school supply dropoff night.  Today is first "full day" for students.

So my wife had to stay late, D12 stayed to help her.

I get a call from (wait for it)  Steak and Shake to see if I wanted to come get a bite.  I had little girls in bed already.

I go over and have a great time with them... obviously no sex talk.  


I come home and attempt to be helpful.  She is messing with her laptop and is obviously stressed about the next day.  She has a "non-verbal" student in her classroom (2nd grade) with a full time aide.  However... .the full time aide can't be there all the time for some reason.

Anyway... she puts that away and we snuggle.  She says (BPD shocker alert)  "I'm feeling so overwhelmed... "

No projection...  Anyway... .she is doing some deep breathing... trying to relax.  I asked if she wanted to try a massage... .and gave her a "legitimate one" (vice thinly veiled sex attempt) for 20 minutes or so.

Then... transitioned to sex.  The "scare the cat" kind... .

She wouldn't orgasm... .I finally did.  Of course... .soon after she does.

I made sure to bring my game... .

https://youtu.be/ldQrapQ4d0Y

She didn't sleep well... .again... I think stress.

Seemed fine this morning.

So... .anyone wants to figure that out... good luck.

FF

[BasementDweller]

Hey, that's not bad! She's guarded but willing to accept your invitation.

When I needed to speak to my BPD ex (recent break-up) about picking up some of my things, he was really not too nice about it. Gave me a lot of flack. Finally he agreed, after me having to really validate and talk him down off the ledge, to meet at a shop near his house because he had to pick up some groceries there anyway.

I wrote back, "That's fair - thank you."

He was really mad and wrote back railing me for being manipulative and criticizing his choice of meeting places, and for taking a curt and mocking tone.

But I wasn't. I was relieved that we had reached an agreement. So I answered "No manipulation or mocking. It IS fair. I said thank you. And I meant it."

Him: "Ah... .ok. See you there."

Her response wasn't gushing with enthusiasm. But it IS affirmative.  

[BasementDweller]

Oh, wow. You posted your new reply while I was writing. You've already had the meeting. But no chat. And sex... .Well, I gotta hand it to you. She may have gripes, but you two are still well active! I think perhaps you did quite well with how you handled the situation, and even if the timing was a little off... .it's ok. I think she truly understands you were looking out for her needs today. Perhaps you can have the talk soon? (I hope?)

[Notwendy]

FF, it may just be stress.  Sex is her way of self soothing but even if someone is interested, as you know stress affects things. It is visible on a guy, but not for a woman, but it happens as well.  While the finish line is a nice goal - there are times when either the man or the woman doesn't always get there at the desired time or at all.

I think you did well. I can imagine many teachers are stressed and don't sleep well the nights before school starts. You don't know the kids and in any classroom there are going to be some challenging kids. I would bet this is the reason she didn't sleep well and I wouldn't dwell on other possibilities.

I think it is great that she shared that she felt overwhelmed.

[formflier]

The kids at my wife's school tend to be a bit more "challenged" than average.  A lot of poverty and broken/cobbled together families. 

There are apparently two cousins in her room that were requested to be in separate rooms.  Parents went to office... .no idea if they will be separated.  The parents requested "they be kept apart because they fight all the time... "  (with no apparent hint or inkling that the parents should do something)

The school has an extra social worker due to the challenges... .and many times the social worker/principals will make home visits because they can't get parents to "come in for a conference".

Yet... in those circumstances my wife is able to understand/motivate kids so that her test scores (growth from start to finish of a year) are about double what is predicted.  I don't totally get all this testing, but I do understand relative performance.

Anyway... .she is obviously able to relate to these kids.

I also find it interesting that there are apparently some issues relating to other teachers.  She has one "frenemy" that is apparently more "friend" that enemy.  But not unusual to hear lots about the "bad stuff she thinks" (I just listen... .)

There are some younger teachers on her team that there is a strained relationship with.  Big generation gap there.

Who knows what part BPDish stuff plays in all that.

FF

[Red5]

This is a GREAT thread !

Thanks FF !

Ok, a couple of things,

The "scare the cat" kind... .

 Good job FF, solid work !

Sex initiation (making love), boy I tell ya, sometimes it’s like going through a NASA launch checklist, or like lining up the planets in the solar system, or “herding cats” to get to home plate … or better yet, the things one may have to do to get an old car started, you know the type… so I offer the following to be in agreement with Enabler,

*slam the drivers side door two times real hard *turn the lights on and off three times, *smack the dash, *pump the brake pedal ten times, *turn the radio on and back off five times, *turn the hazards on at the same time running the windshield wipers, *push the cigarette lighter in, * open and then slam the glove box door two times…, *get back out and rub the back tire, and then kick it as hard as you can… *and then open and close the trunk one time… and then and only then “she” might crank up for you  !

As BasementDweller says, I too like “affirmative communication” !

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=mMRQdL_xvME

Sometimes though, I feel like the horse from the old book “Animal Farm”… one day you are her “hero studley he manly man”… then next your staring at the glue factory front door from the back of a cattle car…

As I look back, the girl who took my virginity back in 1983 was a “fast one”  !

www.hark.com/clips/kbsvlpfpjx-dont-like-fast-women

Keep it coming, Red5 is learning !

Ya’ll have a great day !

Red5 out ~>

[Enabler]

I would imagine she relates very very well to the kids troubles, she can get on a level with them and possibly empathise with their chaotic thoughts. She expects them to be invalidating therefore that's okay... .all the while having minimal ability to self reflect on her own emotional chaos.

My BIL works with 'troubled' kids. His father died when he was 3, his mother never spoke of him after that and became emotionally cold towards him. He is aware that his parenting was sub optimal but not sure he has any awareness of how deeply emotionally immature he is. A compulsive liar, very black and white... .you know the script... .BUT, he has a way of relating to troubled young minds quite naturally. His skills coupled with his own personal experience means he can deeply empathise with their issues and TBH I think it feels quite a natural space for him even though he talks about the kids extreme behaviors like they were total whacko's.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi FF-
Yep, it sounds like most teachers would feel overwhelmed given that situation, and the teachers I know generally feel stress with the beginning of each school year - until they get to know the kids.  I agree with NotWendy, your W simply expressed her feeling of being overwhelmed about the start of school and the uncertainties around that. 

About the steak and shake, by going to that restaurant I think she was letting you know that even though the kids were present, she was right there with YOU in wanting to be close.  In her mind there was forward movement.  And you showed up.

Please tell me... .what is “scare the cat” sex?

Not to be pushy... .but have you tried offering instead of asking when it comes to massage (whether “unethical” or legitimate).  For instance, “Babe, I’d like to help you relax your body a bit... .”  You can give her that FF “come hither look” (I’m sure you’re as good at that as you once were!).  That will let her know you’re making a play for her, and you can talk, not talk, be unethical or legit!  Your W wants you, FF.  Go with it!

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Enabler]

As I look back, the girl who took my virginity back in 1983 was a “fast one”  !

Incidentally W was in the student flat above mine with a bunch of other girls, we were messing around doing some purity test... .I cam out as whiter than the driven snow. When I left her words to the other girls was "I'm going to F that!"... .and so she did.

[Enabler]

Please tell me... .what is “scare the cat” sex?

LOUD... .