I have almost zero percent patience with him Part 2

[I Am Redeemed]

   
FF,

I get what you're saying and I definitely think this is what needs to happen. Just right now I have a stress headache from his incessant attempts at contact. He likes to use s2 as a reason to call, so he can talk to him.

I have my own individual counselor. UBPDh is not seeing any type of counselor. He has several reasons why he can't do that, including his work schedule, his lack of insurance at the moment, and his lack of transportation. He is only interested in "counseling" that was offered in the form of a Bible study focusing on marriage and communication by a man he goes to church with, apparently who led some of the Bible studies with the inmates while he was in jail. I believe his main goal with this is not to work on his own issues but to use the Bible as a way to convince me to continue in our marriage and to move back in with him. i am not falling for that crap. I know the Bible too, I was reading it long before he found it necessary to pick it up in a jail cell after he basically had lost everything because of his behavior.

I would not be interested in any type of marriage counseling unless he has sought therapy for his own issues, mainly the physical violence history, the substance abuse and the many, many dysfunctional thought and behavior patterns that I believe are BPD. The psych eval he had done while in jail came up with a possible BPD diagnosis, this was after i had already found this site and drawn my own conclusions.

Many times in domestic violence cases marriage counseling can actually backfire and give the abuser more "cause" to perpetrate their abusive behavior. It usually only helps once the abuser has done some sort of recovery or treatment for abusive behaviors. UBPDh is saying that God has changed him. I think that reading the Bible and trusting God to heal you is wonderful. But God sometimes works through counselors, doctors and other trained individuals to bring about healing and I just don't see that happening with him. He asked me if him seeking individual counseling was going to be a ''requirement". I told him that I don't make "service plans" like dcs, and that I believed he needed it but I was not going to tell him anything like "if you do x, then we can get back together." I think that would only produce a token effort from him (I've seen him do it before when dcs required him to go to counseling) that involves him "talking the talk" to the counselor without actually delving into any serious work on any issues.

Here is another example of what I deal with:

I was supposed to watch my coworkers kids after work. Her h came home early, so I decided to go to the store and get milk for s2 and then pick up food. S2 was hungry and fussy and was screaming in the car and the store. UBPDh had texted earlier and asked if s2 was ok. I said yes, no fever. Then fifteen minutes later, while I was driving to the store, it started:

UBPDh: Don't know what I'm gonna do other than wash socks and underwear in the tub. Pants didn't dry in time and I couldn't wear them today. Put them on and they were still wet.

--This is either a set up to get me to bring him money for laundry, or to make me feel guilty because I haven't driven to the next county over to get his work clothes out of storage for him--

20 min later: Gretchen Wilson went to jail

Calls twice- I don't answer bc I am trying to deal with a screaming s2 at the store

uBPDh: Am I calling at a bad time. May I talk to s2.

calls again

UBPDh: May I please talk to our son. I've got Bible study tonight and he will probably be asleep when I get back.

calls more times

UBPDh: Is your phone ok

UBPDh: May I please talk to s2

UBPDh: You could at least tell me if I can talk to him or not

--By this time I turned off phone bc I was tired of hearing it buzz while I was driving and dealing with s2--

Turned it back on after we got home and ate. These messages came in:

UBPDh: Really. OK. I'm going to Bible study. Please text when I can talk to my son. Or call, I will pick up. Please let me know something by text or call.

UBPDh: Are you ok. You worry me when you don't answer. Have you fell asleep, ignoring me, either is not good and surely uncalled for

UBPDh: Hear me o God of righteousness, Watch over Redeemed and guide her. Watch over s2 and let him know I love him and will talk to him soon.

UBPDh: You don't have to prove anything. To anyone. Me or whoever. Keep being yourself. A mother to s2 and hope to our others. I love you and them. Talk to you after church. I know you're tired.

Me: (finally losing it because I still had a headache and I was stressed and sick of this crap) Stop freaking out. Just stop it. For God's sake I had to go to the store and get milk and pick up food. s2 was screaming because he wanted candy. I have a huge headache. I can not stand your insecurity it's driving me nuts.

UBPDh: I don't have a driver's license, I ain't driving you nowhere. Thought you were babysitting anyway and could not leave with kids. Take a bc and chill out. Nobody is driving you anywhere but you. I have got to focus on Bible study. Are you gonna bring him by on your way home.

Me: I'm already home. (coworker's h) got home early. I don't have a bc and my head still hurts.

UBPDh: Please don't do this. I will do anything but that. They will call me names.

--I have no idea what that means--

UBPDh: Be at my place at 8:15.


-------------------------------------------------
WHAT? I don't... .I mean, WHAT?  I just want to reach through the phone and choke him to death. so... .I am turning off the phone because NO GOOD Can come from furthering this conversation tonight. I am way too frustrated and stressed.

I do not know how I survived seven years of living with someone who communicates like this. It's a wonder I am not completely insane.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[formflier]

Hey... .    you have a lot on your plate.  You don't have room for another toddler... constantly tugging at you to get your attention.  

This isn't a run message... it's a message telling you that you have to set some boundaries (for yourself) about when you will allow yourself to know how much he is reaching out to you.

I'm not endorsing a product here... I'm giving options.  I wonder if you need to get google voice or some other text/phone service that you can direct him to.  Or perhaps you can transfer your current phone number to one of those type of services and get a new phone number for your phone.

I use google voice.  Many times I text from my computer.  I have the option of forwarding texts and calls to my "real" cell phone or I can tell the service to store them on my computer and I'll get to them later.  I'm in total control of when I'm notified I have messages

The technical details you can think about for a while... .I'm confident you will find a solution.

I'm 100% sure that YOU will feel much better when YOU create time during the day that you will be aware of his reaching out... .and times during the day when YOU choose to reach out to him.

Let him deal with his "stuff" on this.

Can you think about your daily schedule and how you can make this work?

Do you think your life will be calmer if you have less awareness of his reach out attempts.

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

FF,

wow, I didn't know Google voice could do that. That might be something to look into for sure. I don't need the constant demands for attention and I also don't need the guilt trips and attempts at FOG to get his needs met. He is desperate to draw us back in to the same r/s dynamic we had before. I have experienced so much trauma that I have a very low threshold of tolerance for the stress he creates. I know that some of the effects from the trauma I went through are just now surfacing and I am already short, irritable and overwhelmed. UBPDh just puts me over the edge and I can't afford that mentally or emotionally right now. Not to mention that I am afraid that contact with him that even looks like I might be possibly considering reconciliation could hurt my chances of getting more time with my other kids.
I am really hurt and angry over the things he has done to me and to our family and I need a whole lot of time to process and heal from it. I have worked through some of it in the past months but I have a long way to go and I think the added stress of dealing with him is impeding progress.

Thanks FF,

Redeemed

[formflier]

  I need a whole lot of time to process and heal from it. 

The time is yours... .please don't hear me "blaming" you ... .please do hear me saying YOU are responsible for protecting your time.

Your time to parent, your time to care for yourself, your time to process and your time to heal.

Yes, you should also make time for your pwBPD.  Be deliberate about that.

Notice who is absent from my above stuff in figuring out your time.  EVERYONE except you is absent.  Only you determine your time.

   

You can do this.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Well, I’ll go there... .I’m really good at being politically and sociologically incorrect... .so I’ll just say it.

It seems that there’s a wide gap between you and your husband, Redeemed, in terms of education, social standing and perhaps intelligence. You are taking steps to improve your station in life and he is... .maybe staying put in his.

I’m wondering if this is causing a conflict for you as you evaluate the history of your relationship and ponder the future.

[I Am Redeemed]

FF,

For so long I have adapted myself to meet other people's needs and I feel super weird trying to be the catalyst of my own destiny. I spent a lot of time pulling the mental covers over my head and wishing it would all go away and leave me alone, which of course never happens. I know logically what you are saying is true. Emotionally I am trying to sort out what causes me the most anxiety about putting that into practical application and get to the root of it so I can deal with it and overcome it. Avoidance has been a go-to defense mechanism for me to cope with anxiety and negative emotions, and I am aware that I have to learn how to not do that. It causes me to fall into learned patterns that are familiar and easy though they are not at all constructive. Descending into self-pity instead of encouraging myself is a familiar dysfunctional habit, as is my complaining and feeling powerless instead of formulating and enacting a course of action that might seem daunting and difficult because it isn't my comfort zone.

Cat, I think you have hit on something really crucial. I am increasingly aware of the gaps between myself and uBPDh. They have grown larger over the years. We seemed to be so much alike when we met. We grew up in the same state, are the same age (within three weeks) and our families were of similar income levels (both poor, although his family was extreme poverty level. Mine was the level right above qualifying for food stamps, which basically was worse because we had no assistance and had to scrape every dime together for what we had.
Social status... .in that I can say I am truly redeemed from what I once was. My struggles with addiction landed me in jail and in rehab. I was a liar, a thief, a cheat, and I manipulated and used people. I can say for many years I was extremely emotionally unstable and I did not do anything to further my position in life. If you read the book Alcoholics Anonymous, the description given of the psychological and emotional makeup of the alcoholic (or addict) resembles very much someone who has a personality disorder. These are tough issues to overcome, but recovery is possible. Acceptance and awareness are key. There is a statement made though, in the chapter of the book detailing the twelve steps and how the program works, that says that "there are those, too, who have grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.The honesty is key. I really have thought for some time that uBPDh is one of those who won't recover because he does not have the capacity to really be honest about his issues.

Intelligence wise, uBPDh could learn anything he put his mind to if he did not self-sabotage in the process. He was also enrolled in college last year, and actually did well in the psychology class he was taking (of all things) until his drug use rendered him unable to finish. He does not have a formal education, he dropped out of high school and received a GED in prison a few years later. But he has the capacity to learn. His emotional intelligence and maturity level is mainly what holds him back, I believe.

I just don't know if our paths are going to ever take a turn in the same direction again and I have started to realize that I will be okay with that. I still would choose the complete recovery of our marriage, if that is even possible (and of course, I know that all things are possible with God) but it may not be God's plan for me... .or for him, though I know he undoubtedly feels that it is. I think he is staking all his hope on it, and that makes me sad. But if he truly wants to save it, then there will have to be huge, colossal changes. It will come down to what scares him more, and what he treasures the most. Does losing me forever scare him more than facing his real inner demons and actually working to overcome them? Does he treasure having a real, committed marriage that benefits both partners... .or is he still just trying to fill the void inside him by having a "security object", i.e. a wife?

There would also be the question of whether or not I could move past the hurt and the trauma, and feel safe trying to still be married to him. Moving past the hurt and trauma, I will do, regardless. I will not stay stuck with that.

Feeling safe... .I don't know. At this point... .no. I can't speak for the future, because I don't know what is going to happen.

I think the biggest difference between us is that I am pretty much committed to facing reality, whether it's pretty or not, scary or not, fun or not, pleasant or not... .and he is still pretty much living in fantasy.

That seems like a large gap to me.But it's the truth. Reality.

Hmm. That's something to ponder on.

Btw Cat I tried the breathing exercise you posted on FF"s anxiety thread and IT WORKS 

At least I'm sleeping better now 

Thanks guys,

 

Redeemed

[formflier]

I Am Redeemed,

I am so proud of you!

The amount of work and self reflection it has taken to get to this point must be immense.  Not to mention doing this with a S2 wanting your attention... .

 

For so long I have adapted myself to meet other people's needs and I feel super weird trying to be the catalyst of my own destiny. I spent a lot of time pulling the mental covers over my head and wishing it would all go away and leave me alone, which of course never happens. I know logically what you are saying is true. Emotionally I am trying to sort out what causes me the most anxiety about putting that into practical application and get to the root of it so I can deal with it and overcome it. Avoidance has been a go-to defense mechanism for me to cope with anxiety and negative emotions, and I am aware that I have to learn how to not do that. It causes me to fall into learned patterns that are familiar and easy though they are not at all constructive. Descending into self-pity instead of encouraging myself is a familiar dysfunctional habit, as is my complaining and feeling powerless instead of formulating and enacting a course of action that might seem daunting and difficult because it isn't my comfort zone.
 

How can I and the rest of bpdfamily best support you in taking your next step?


Best to you!

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Wow, Redeemed,
You have overcome enormous obstacles. You are truly a powerful woman!         

And how self-aware you are!    That is truly inspirational. You set your mind to things and you will make it happen.    You are on the precipice of creating your future in the shape you desire and those old habits of avoidance and fear are dropping away.

Be kind to yourself on this journey and realize that those feelings of anxiety, self-pity, and feeling powerless were initially developed to protect you. Ask those parts how you can support them and meet their positive intentions for you in a different way. Because they do want to help you, it's just that they are mired in the past, but if you can let them know that their input is valuable, they will help you develop new strategies.

I just don't know if our paths are going to ever take a turn in the same direction again and I have started to realize that I will be okay with that. I still would choose the complete recovery of our marriage, if that is even possible (and of course, I know that all things are possible with God) but it may not be God's plan for me... .or for him, though I know he undoubtedly feels that it is. I think he is staking all his hope on it, and that makes me sad. But if he truly wants to save it, then there will have to be huge, colossal changes. It will come down to what scares him more, and what he treasures the most. Does losing me forever scare him more than facing his real inner demons and actually working to overcome them? Does he treasure having a real, committed marriage that benefits both partners... .or is he still just trying to fill the void inside him by having a "security object", i.e. a wife?

There would also be the question of whether or not I could move past the hurt and the trauma, and feel safe trying to still be married to him. Moving past the hurt and trauma, I will do, regardless. I will not stay stuck with that.

You've confronted the sorrow of acknowledging that perhaps your paths are on a different trajectory and you realize that it may not be possible for him to surmount his own inner demons.

You realize that you must be true to yourself, no matter the pain.    This is a lesson that many people never understand in a lifetime. It's truly empowering to come to grips with this, and as you know, not easy.    

I'm so glad that the breathing exercise has helped you sleep better!  

All in all, I'm so happy to hear how centered and strong you are, Redeemed. You are truly an inspiration and you probably have no idea how much you now inspire others and will continue to do so in the future. Yay!  

Cat

[I Am Redeemed]

Thanks Cat and FF,
Right now I am trying to not let frustration and irritation cause me to either react with negativity or give in to pressure because I am tired and getting worn down. I feel like I have some PTSD type stuff going on with regards to communication with uBPDh. I was so mentally and emotionally exhausted by the relationship that I now feel that I am triggered super easily, and I have realized that anxiety over how others, including my foo might judge my decisions is causing me to be on edge and emotionally reactive as well.
I need help with how much importance I place on other people's opinions, and how I can trust myself to make the right decisions for me, without consciously or unconsciously letting others feelings or opinions influence me.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Hey Redeemed ,
I totally get how exhausting it can be and how easy it is to get triggered—BPD PTSD for sure!

When you’ve been a people’s pleaser all your life (guilty as charged), it is a real departure to realize that your own opinions and desires are just as valuable as others’.

I finally was able to get to the point where I was OK thinking that someone else might perceive me as selfish, unkind, gasp—a narcissist. I knew that I was just another flawed human being who struggles and tries to do her best and makes mistakes, lots of them.

Think of how far you’ve come in changing your life. That takes a lot of strength and fortitude.   It’s all a process; you’ll get to a place where you’ll hear others opinions and consider them, and you’ll know in your heart what’s right for you.

Cat

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Wow! You have come a long way and have made great progress in self-awareness! It's a lot of hard work and you're doing fantastic!

I need help with how much importance I place on other people's opinions, and how I can trust myself to make the right decisions for me, without consciously or unconsciously letting others feelings or opinions influence me.

Have you read the book "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beattie or something like it? You mentioned AA. It may be similar. I brought it up because it really helped me. For years, I doubted my intuition. I doubted my abilities to make decisions. I realized I was brought up that way. Also being in abusive r/s's enforced my lack of confidence and kept me isolated not only from others but from myself. Our marriage counselor suggested this book and I found it to be immensely helpful for me.

Like what Cat wrote. It's a process. I think that the more you heal, the more self-aware you become, the easier it will be to trust the decisions you make for yourself. 

[I Am Redeemed]

Thanks Cat and Fire,

I will definitely check out that book. I grew up in an environment that was verbally abusive and emotionally unstable. I learned to make decisions based on what I thought would gain the approval of others. I did not know what I wanted, only what I thought others wanted. I was taught that love was conditional based on my performance. I did not feel that I had a safe place to make mistakes and learn from them. I learned that everyone from my foo to God would be displeased and angry if I did not do what I was "supposed" to do. Now as an adult, I am having to break down this faulty belief system that has been ingrained in me and replace it with a new way of thinking. The same is true of my faith and relationship with God. I am just now really starting to grasp the idea that God is full of grace and mercy and that He sees me as He sees Christ, not as a sinner with many faults and shortcomings. It is a hard concept for me to grasp, but slowly my old beliefs are falling away. I try to speak the truth about what God says about me to myself, instead of the lies the devil has had me believe all these years. I believe that the more I continue to do this, the more my old patterns of thinking will fall away and I will find a new confidence that is based in the reality of God's love for me. It takes time. God is patient with me, so I should be patient with myself too.

My ability to trust my own decisions was also severely damaged when I lost custody of my kids. It's hard to know if your decisions are right when you don't feel like you have the freedom of choosing what's really right for yourself. CPS took my kids away from me because i was being abused and did not know who to turn to for help. They kept my kids away from me and even went as far as to say that my h abused our kids and I did nothing to stop it (which was not true, on his part or mine.) They made me feel like there was something wrong with me for trying to keep my family together and for wanting to get my h help instead of just completely cutting him out of all our lives. I began to wonder if I really was all the things they said about me, especially since my foo supported their view and actively worked against the return of my children to me.

When everyone around you is against you and you also have a pwBPD who is constantly painting you black and being abusive to you, your thinking becomes really very murky and suddenly you start doubting yourself and second-guessing every decision you make, because there is always someone telling you that you are wrong, you are unfit, you are unstable, you are irresponsible, you are selfish... .someone who tells your kids that you care about an abusive man more than you care about them... .and that you really don't want them back, because if you did, you would have left him a long time ago... .

It's hard to make decisions when you feel like no matter what you decide, it's going to cause harm to someone. It's also hard when there are people who hold the power to destroy your family and they are scrutinizing and judging every move you make, and instead of them having to prove that what they say about you is true, you have to prove that it isn't... .only no one gives you the chance.

It's terribly frustrating and confusing.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

So, from the very beginnings of your life, Redeemed, you were programmed to believe that you had to discern what others wanted and then do your best to comply. You were given love based upon how well you did and you weren't supported in learning from your mistakes, as we all make mistakes. You were expected to perfectly do what others expected you to do. This is a heavy burden that you've carried far too long.   

You were blamed for being abused and this looks like more of the same pattern from your childhood. You had been trained to comply, not look within and find your own truth.

Now you're discovering what is important to you and feeling the loving support of God and you realize that God is patient with you as you learn to trust your own instincts. He can help you overcome all that pain from the past when others painted you black. He will support you in making the best decisions for your future.

You are on the right track, Redeemed. It's not easy, but you have support.   

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi again, Redeemed,

You are very powerful!  You have moved mountains, so far.

I know what it's like to put others needs before yourself.  I have struggled to even know what I want.  When deciding for myself, I always wondered what does this person or that person need?  I am slowly learning to consider myself.  It's not selfish, Redeemed.  You have to take care of and love yourself.   

I hope that you will be able to use some of FFs advice about getting the texts and phone calls managed.  I ave experienced this, too and it is definitely crazing making. 

You are getting all kinds of good spport from other members, but I just wanted to drop in and encourage you.  You are on the right track. 

Peace and blessings,

Mustbeabetterway

[I Am Redeemed]

Thank you Mustbe, Cat, and FF,
I am feeling a little defeated and a lot anxious. I broke down and took s2 to see him. No one returned my calls from the dcs office and I just got tired of his asking. I know that he wore me down and I let myself feel sorry for him.
S2 really misses him. He did not want to leave. H wanted to keep him while I went to work but I said no. He wants us to go to church with him. I have not been able to go to church because of my work schedule, but I recently switched to working Sunday night so I can go. I want to find a church home that will be a spiritual support system for me.
H wants to do more things together. I feel like I have been enmeshed long enough and I want to build my own support system.
Last night he said he thinks God told him we should "sign the papers", and that if we are meant to be together then we will be together. Said he can't go on the way it is. Said he has tried to offer us "help" together, but I didn't want to do it. He's talking about the Bible marriage study. I don't consider that counseling, and also I don't think that any marriage counseling will help without individual treatment. He speaks of mental health treatment with contempt and thinks that he only needs church. That's a for me, he's done that before.
He has been out of jail exactly one month and hasn't gotten the reconciliation he wants, so he's playing the martyr now. Wanted me to know how much it hurts that I am pulling away, how much it will hurt for him to sign divorce papers, and that he won't ask to s s2 any more. Said if I want to let him see him then I will, and made some comment about how I can twist that knife in his heart.
He said he is trying to be the spiritual leader by wanting me to go to church with him instead of on my own. Since I don't know if that is right for me, he says we are unequally yoked.
I pointed out that "unequally yoked" in Scripture refers to a believer married to a non believer. He uses this term any time I don't go along with what he thinks we should do. I told him that is not even what that means but of course he probably didn't listen.
Lots of him trying to make me feel guilty because of his pain. He is not getting his way. His black and white thinking is telling him that we either have to be actively working together on reconciliation or we should just get divorced.

I would almost be relieved if we did. But it's sad, all of this is sad. It's not how I expected my life would turn out.

He is at the very beginning of the recovery process. It's a PROCESS and he has no patience. He says he understands that everything won't happen at once but I see him attempting to manipulate things because he wants results now.

He's also been playing lottery tickets again, and he has both won and lost a lot of money. Another red flag for me.

Meanwhile, I have accounting homework and it's stressing me out. The online program is not like having a teacher explain stuff, and I guess I am old school but this is a different learning experience for me.

Thanks for being here everyone, just needed to get some of this out.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Of course you wanted your son to see his father; that's completely understandable, and so frustrating that you haven't gotten a definitive answer yet from CPS. You're seeing very clearly how your husband attempts to manipulate you through martyrdom. It sounds like you've gotten a brief hint of the Obligation and Guilt out of the FOG, but not the Fear, so far.

As you've noted, your husband is at the beginning of the recovery process and he has little patience for building a healthier life, step by step. He wants everything NOW. That type of thinking is probably what lured him into addiction in the first place.

You understand all the hurdles that come with making your dreams a reality... .and now you're immersed in accounting homework and feeling a bit blue. Do you know any accountants who could tutor you? Perhaps you could trade office cleaning for some individual help? I know you have very little time as it is, but finding a mentor now could lead to a job offer later--or just a great way to get a reference and connections in your field.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Cat,
One of my managers at work is taking classes for his master's degree in accounting, and I know he will help. This is accounting for managers, using an online textbook program called cengage. I really think I will get it if I can get time to go over the examples without much distraction. There's just so much information crammed into one week's time because this is an accelerated program. The class is only eight weeks long. It's like cramming three and a half months of work into eight weeks.

On the bright side, I am only eleven classes away from my degree. Yay! 

[Cat Familiar]

Wonderful that you're so close to having your degree, Redeemed!     And that you have someone who can help you is splendid!   I totally get how stressful it is to take an advanced class in an accelerated program--I did a semester of calculus during summer school.    

Cat

[I Am Redeemed]

So... .newest development... .communication has not been too bad the past few days. UBPDh's family attorney said that it would pretty much be at my discretion as to visitation with s2. I let him see him wednesday night and thursday night, and thursday i had him look at my car because it was making two really bad noises. It had started making a lifter noise when he looked at it wednesday, and the next day it started another louder noise. Anyway, the engine light is flashing and he said it was getting ready to jump time or throw a rod. I am scared to drive it at all and I was trying to look for another car which is tough because I don't have a reliable car to drive so I can shop for another one. I had been discussing options with him and asking him about cars I found at certain places, with the price, mileage and so on because he does know a lot about that.

So today, I took off work to see if I could get a van from the lot down the street. My credit is not good and I don't have much for a down payment, so some of the bigger lots will not finance me. I was nervous about buying a car from people I don't know because I have had bad experiences with used cars. I also was nervous about driving my breaking-down car to the lot, but I felt like I didn't have much choice because no one else could take me. UBPDh was talking to me about it all morning, and then he got on the subject of how he doesn't want money because he is weak and he spends it when he shouldn't. He said he gave the rest of the money he had last night to a homeless guy, just so he didn't have it on him anymore. I know he has been playing lots of lottery tickets, and twice he has lost money out of his pockets. He realizes these are bad decisions, and he pretty much wants me to handle his money for him. After we talked he sent me a text saying that he needed to get his check direct deposited and then pay his rent, get a 50 dollar card for expenses for the week, and get a bus pass so he can get to work. Said he wanted to make a deal with me. I saw the text, and I pretty much guessed that he was proposing that I take over managing his money and dole it out to him so he doesn't have to deal with the responsibility of it, and I was in the middle of stressing over my car situation and really didn't want to have to think about solving his financial irresponsibility problem. I took a chance on driving to the lot, and they were closed, and I didn't even see the one van that was on their website that I had wanted. I will probably have to wait until Labor Day is over to talk to them, and I am basically stuck without a ride until then. I texted uBPDh with this news. He responded by asking me if I was bringing s2 over. (In my car that's about to break down and leave me stranded? really?) I said no, I don't want to chance breaking down and having a tow bill that I can't afford.  He said call a taxi. I said no. this led to a phone conversation about how he didn't get an answer on his request from two hours earlier about me taking over his finances. I told him I didn't need the stress of that, that I'm dealing with this whole not-having-a-car issue and that he was a grown man and needed to learn to handle his money himself instead of having me pay his bills and hand out allowances like a child. He started to dysregulate and said that from now on his thinking is that if I'm not "for us" then I'm "against us."

Apparently, me being "for us" means doing things for him that he should be doing for himself. This is an old familiar pattern of behavior that I recognized immediately. If I don't want to do something for him that he considers "helping" when it's really caretaking and/or enabling, he decides that means I am against the whole relationship and I'm not doing "my part".

I told him I was not getting into a conversation about his black-and-white thinking, which was not the best thing to say probably, and I hung up. He texted and asked if he could please see or talk to his son. There's the emotional blackmail card being pulled out. He called and I answered without thinking and immediately I said "you pull the s2 card anytime I don't want to do something you want me to do." He told me he wants all his tools back (they are in the back seat of the other broke down car that i have) and told me that I could expect a process server to be coming with divorce papers.

I hung up and turned off the phone. I had been communicating pretty well with him this whole week, no crazy incidents or pestering me, though I guess that's probably because he was getting his way, which was to see s2 (and me) two nights in a row and possibly this weekend. That was another thing that was starting to cause anxiety in me, because I realized he was going to want me to spend every spare moment over there with him and use the "s2 card" to guilt me into doing it. I know s2 wants to see his daddy. But I have limited time as it is, and I do not want to spend all of the free nights I might have going over to uBPDh's hotel room. It makes me uncomfortable, and I have not done enough healing from the trauma to be in such repeated close contact with him. I am super emotionally reactive, and I don't like feeling pressured to resume the relationship. I can feel the strength of the "pull" cycle, and I knew it was a matter of time before the next dysregulation happened. Today was it. I refused to either drive a broke down car which might leave me and s2 stranded on the road and cost a tow bill, or pay for a taxi to take us over there and back, and then I refused to take on a responsibility which belongs to him and not to me. Bam. Divorce threats.

So, the phone is currently turned off. I posted here to get some of this out so I don't repeatedly think about it, and I still have the car issue to worry with.

Honestly, right now I am more worried about solving the car problem.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

So sorry about your car, Redeemed. If it ain't one thing, it's another.  

Yikes--he wants you to manage his finances and give him an allowance so he doesn't fritter away money. Has he always been so irresponsible with his money? I'm glad you said no to this request--you could see how it would enmesh you in his life in ways you wouldn't want.    And he's already got a plan of how he should manage his income--so why doesn't he just do it himself?

In a similar way of thinking, he's just looking at immediate gratification as far as the request for you to take a taxi and bring over your son so he could see him.

When you don't comply with his demands, as you've noted, he does the black and white thinking and threatens divorce. And you're foreseeing that the more you give him what he wants, the more he wants.

You still are struggling with your emotions about how he's treated you in the past as well as the incident which led to him being in jail for assaulting you. And you've not seen him come to grips with fully acknowledging his behavior and the impact it had upon you, and asking for forgiveness. Instead he believes that he's a different man because he accepted God while in jail and that should be enough for everything to go back to the way it was previously with you. You don't like feeling pressured to restart the relationship.

You've got a lot of responsibility with your son, your work, your school and now trying to figure out how you will have a functional car. You don't need the added stress that he's bringing to your life right now.    

Cat

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Cat,

Yes, he has always been irresponsible with money. He has an addiction to scratch off lottery tickets, which is what he has been doing with his money and why he doesn't have any after he pays his rent. He told me that he recognizes that he has a problem with this, and that he is weak, and that I just don't understand. His solution is to have me take care of his money for him, because he doesn't want the responsibility of it. He doesn't think he can do it himself. But I don't see that as a solution. He asked his boss for some advice on budgeting money, and his boss gave him some of Dave Ramsey's books. He did not offer to take over h's finances and do his budgeting for him, so why should I? That is not helping someone become responsible, it is enabling someone to stay childlike and immature. I see it as giving a man a fish instead of teaching him to fish. He apparently links it to my willingness to reconcile the relationship. If I am not willing to do something for him that he considers "helping", then I am rejecting the entire r/s.

Talked to his mom last night. He apparently called her because he wasn't getting any response from me. He tries to triangulate her into our communication. He cannot stand to not get in touch with me, so when he can't he will attempt to enlist his mother as a third party, which she doesn't want to be. She tried to tell him that he needs to give me time, that he can't expect everything to go back to the way it was. He won't listen. He just keeps talking about the Bible and what it says about marriage, and how the wife and husband belong together and it isn't God's will for married couples to be separated. He's missing the big picture entirely.

He has apologized to me for his behavior towards me. He said that his mind was telling him that he should push me away, and that is what he was doing when he was acting so horribly towards me. I am fully aware of the "push" cycle, as I have seen it repeatedly. I asked him if he realized how many times over seven years I have heard him say that exact same thing to me when attempting to explain his mistreatment of me. He did not remember saying it before. But he has, many times. I have heard the "my mind was telling me to push you away" explanation for all types of abusive and inappropriate behavior more times than I can count. His memory of the past is unclear. He is aware that he has "messed up" before with me, but I do not think he comprehends the extent of the damage or the role that his pattern of behavior has played in it. He only focuses on the latest incident, not the accumulation of the abuse in the r/s as a whole. I don't think he understands the extent of the trauma and damage I have incurred. Once the cycle starts over, it seems he thinks that any and all effects of previous abusive acts have been shed.

He also links forgiveness with reconciliation. He thinks that we are not actively "back together" because I haven't forgiven him. He acknowledges to some extent that he is experiencing consequences of his actions, but he is getting impatient and thinks that the consequences should be over by now. Lots of talk about how it's "not right" that he is separated from s2 and doesn't get to see him much. He speaks of the promises in the Bible, and how God wants families to be together, and he believes that it isn't God's will for us to be separated the way we are and that it is somehow an injustice to him. He is still casting blame on outside forces for the emotional pain he is currently experiencing as a result of his behavior towards us. He only marginally acknowledges his responsibility for it, as he always has. There is always a clause attached. He takes ownership, but not solely, and thinks that what he is experiencing is unfair.

I know he has had several extremely dysfunctional relationships before. He has been married twice, and apparently both of those relationships included cycles of arguing, physical fighting, vindictive behavior, and then making up and carrying on like everything was fine until the next incident. He doesn't understand what a vicious cycle that was, and he is trying to push me into the "making up" cycle when I can see that it would inevitably lead to the whole mess starting over again. He doesn't see that.

He cannot stand to be in this "in between" period. He is feeling the pressure to either reconcile completely or divorce, now. I suppose that is his black and white thinking at work - we can either be together again or not together at all.  He is not comfortable with the concept of remaining separated while he gets help so that he does not continue his abusive behavior and while I work on healing from the trauma his behavior has caused. The only "help" he is interested in involves both of us together with the goal of reconciliation in mind. He does not want to do anything on his own to resolve any of his issues, other than going to church and bible study and the classes he completed in jail on anger management, substance abuse etc.

And you are absolutely right, I do not need the added stress of trying to manage or solve his issues while I have my plate heaping full. So i will not. He knows what he needs to do to budget his money, he just doesn't think he has the self control to do it and wants me to do it for him. This morning he texted me that his phone is about to be cut off. Then sent a text with the account information and the website to pay it. Don't know if that was a hint that he wants me to pay his bill, but I'm not doing it. I'm about to have to drop over half my savings on a down payment on a car, plus my rent and storage bill is due. Not to mention I lost two shifts because of the car being messed up. Ugh.

Managed to find a ride to work today. I refuse to let myself worry about this car issue. i remind myself that God has made a way for me so far and He will continue to do so. So I will not worry. One day at a time.

Blessings and peace,

 Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Redeemed,
I see you making great progress in moving towards your goals and creating the life you want.    You seem to very accurately comprehend how he would rather not take responsibility for his finances and how he has justified his unkind treatment of you in the past as merely "pushing you away."

You realize that he has no consistent understanding of how his behavior over the years has impacted you. And if you're not fulfilling his wishes, then he thinks he needs to end the relationship because you're not complying with how he interprets God's will.

You've done a good job holding the line and keeping your boundaries intact, but how is this impacting you? And how do you imagine your future considering that these behaviors are of long duration?

I hope you get your car issue resolved soon.    

Cat

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Cat,
The impact this is having is that it is consuming time and energy.
I think it is telling that he mentioned that he has talked to some people about our situation, and said that they said to him that "she'll come around."
That makes me think that he sees the ball in my court more than his as to how long this separation lasts. Kind of like me having him in a "time out".
It seems to me that he is summing up the life-changing, damage-causing, trauma-resulting, therapy-requiring effects his abusive behavior has had on me with the statement "I made a mistake."
And when he says that, I mentally add "... .again".
A mistake. That is how he refers to it. That makes me think he is focused on his relapse and blaming his subsequent treatment of me on that. Surely, the drug use escalated the abuse and psychotic symptoms. But it's not what caused it.
It in no way acknowledges his treatment of me as a whole throughout the relationship. He refers to that collectively as him being an "$$hole"
He has simplified what he needs to do to regain my trust and restore both our relationship and his relationship with his kids into these two things:
1) don't use drugs
2) keep God first
If it's that simple, why has he not done it yet? Why would he let our family be destroyed little by little over the years if all it takes to"get better" are those two things?
Because it isn't that simple. It's much more complex, to he can't handle that.
He can't even gain the self control to make sure he doesn't spend all his money and leave himself broke for the week.
Why? Because it isn't important enough to him. Because he still thinks he can screw up and count on me to bail him out.
Just today he asked if I could Western Union him some money online. After I told him there is no possibility of me getting a ride to see him today.
I have seen others on this site that are in similar situations, who have said that counselors have advised against reconciliation unless the abusive party agrees to counseling and some type of accountability.
I don't see those things on his"list".

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Hey Redeemed,
Here's what I'm getting from that phrase, "she'll come around": that with time, they assume you'll give in to his wishes and resume the relationship on his terms. He doesn't have to do anything but wait you out.

Saying, "I made a mistake" undoubtedly sounds to you like merely empty words as there's no accountability for changing even relatively simple things like managing his money so that he doesn't run out by the end of the week. And as you've observed, he assumes you'll bail him out over and over.

He may think that self-identifying as an a-hole is somehow taking responsibility, but it appears that it's also just words, and words which cover up exactly how his behavior was hurtful to you and the children.

So if you don't see accountability on his list and he thinks he can make everything better with only focusing on God and not using drugs, where does that leave you? And how do you feel about that?

 

Cat

[formflier]

I would recommend that you be explicit about when you will "consider" changing the relationship to "get closer".  Yes... .intentionally vague.

When you, and he... .and the appropriate counselors deem both of you ready... .then you will "consider it.

Over to you on making the list of what is appropriate.

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

I guess it leaves me where I am now- making a way to be self-sufficient and support s2 on my own, in a place where we are safe and free from the threat of abuse. Open to give uBPDh the benefit of the doubt where recovery is concerned, but not placing expectations on that to happen. If it does, that would be wonderful. If it doesn't, I will not be disappointed that my hopes were crushed again. And I will not have my life turned upside down again.

He is talking about making a budget for himself. His boss gave him a budget sheet. it's just talk, but maybe he will do it. I tried to be encouraging instead of skeptical about it.

He says that he will not "do something stupid again" to make this situation any worse, because he does not want to explain to s2 or the other children one day that even after all he had done, I was still communicating with him, still allowing him to see his son (even if it isn't how much he wants) and then he went and did xyz to mess it up. Also that he doesn't want to do anything to mess up his relationship with God, because he finally says he has one and that God turned out to not be what he expected. And maybe all those things are true.

He mentioned talking to an alcohol and drug counselor he knows who is also a "spiritual person", as he calls it, and who is trained in psychology, to figure out "what is going on with him."

Those sound like good things towards progress, and I hope he follows through. But one thing I have learned about him is that his plans change with his moods. Even if today he feels like this counselor is a good person to talk to, that same person could be painted black and deemed untrustworthy by this time next week.

We shall see. In the meantime, I will keep doing what i do every day- study, take care of s2, pay my own bills, work, do laundry, and plan for the future one step at a time. I was hoping to be able to move into my own place before getting a new car, but it seems the car has taken priority. So, patience. I should receive more financial aid sometime this month or in October, so maybe I will have to wait to move until then. It will be okay. Setbacks are frustrating, but it's not like I am stuck without options or without a plan.

I am grateful today for what I have, and for where I am, and for where I am not.

FF I really like the intentionally vague concept. I kind of have been doing that already, dodging a definitive answer on what I want him to do to "get better" and pursue reconciliation. I have not promised that we will definitely reconcile. I like even better the idea of putting off even considering it. I don't want to give him an "ultimatum" list- you do this, this and this, or we have to divorce. I don't even know what would be appropriate necessarily. I guess my therapist could help me out with what would be essential to recovery.
I don't want to dangle reconciliation like a carrot. I may not have a carrot to give, when it's all said and done. I have only told him that my answer to our situation is that we are separated and both working on ourselves, because that is true. I really need to talk more with my therapist about all this. Going thursday. Scheduling conflicts have kept me from going for about six weeks and I can really tell I need to go.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[I Am Redeemed]

He just called back, seemingly to talk to s2 before bed, but what really happened is that he asked me to pray for him "with my whole heart", like I did last fall when I saw him in the grips of his addiction again. He went off on some tangent about God again, and I can tell that the three day weekend he has had off where he has been sitting in the hotel room with nothing to do (and not getting to see us like he had planned) has put him in a very... .strange... .state of mind. He is depressed, and getting into self pity. He started praying out loud over the phone. Said he cursed everyone who would stand in his way of him being a father to his kids, everyone who would not help him do that, etc. Tried to badger me into committing to a visitation with s2 this week. He knows I don't have a car. I have already explained that I am not comfortable with him arranging a ride for me, or taking a taxi. I do not feel comfortable being over there without a way to leave on my own should the need arise. He would not let it go, and we got into a circular conversation with him pressuring me to commit to letting him see s2 this Saturday, if he pays for the taxi. He was talking about budgeting earlier. Now he's talking about spending $40 on a taxi if that's what it takes to see s2. I did not want to make any plans. I am trying to take this week one day at a time, because I don't have a car, and I am trying to arrange to go car shopping in the little spare time I might have. I tried to explain this to him. He continued to push and push and push, whining about how he had a three day weekend and was planning on seeing s2 and did not get to, and how the last visits we had he didn't get to spend much time with him because he had to go to bed early because of work (we spent around five hours over there two days in a row), and I finally just hung up because I knew that once again I was letting the conversation go on too long and I could feel great frustration and irritation rising up. I turned off the phone for the night.

He tried to get me to take a taxi over there today. I did not want to do that. He made a covert blaming statement about how the plan was for me to bring s2 today to see him and do my homework while they played. Since I refused to take a taxi, he didn't get to see s2 and I had to struggle to get work done while watching s2 at the same time. Never mind the fact that he called repeatedly today, on messenger and from the hotel lobby phone (he didn't pay his phone bill so he doesn't have his cell phone on right now) which would have been a great distraction from my homework and car shopping if I had answered every time.  I kept the phone on silent all day so i didn't have to hear it repeatedly ringing. I really need to see about getting that Google voice or something like it.

I need to work on how to respond when he starts pushing me to make commitments I don't want to make, and keeps repeating the same things over and over and not taking no for an answer. I feel an intense physical and emotional response when he does this. I think it is my mind relating it to his bullying and steamrolling over me when we lived together. He would badger me, bully me, and obsessively lock on to a topic of focus and he absolutely refused to ever let me have my own opinion about it or make a decision that disagreed with his point of view. He's still doing that, only there isn't the threat of physical violence on top of it. He simply will not let go when it is something he wants, and he tries to wear me down to get what he wants. He will not respect my right to make a decision contrary to what he wants me to do. And my reaction to that is to get upset, frustrated, angry, and then my heart races and I feel adrenaline.

I need to pay attention to these responses. I am not sure exactly what they mean. i'm trying to analyze them. Thoughts, anyone? Do you guys think I am on the right track as to why i feel such intense emotional and physical reactions to his refusal to accept that I am telling him "no"?

Anyone know some tips for how I can respond other than abruptly hanging up the phone because I feel the intense need to get out of the conversation (situation? Is this a flashback thing?) asap?

I feel like I "freeze" when these emotions start coming up, and then the anger builds until I react in an emotional manner.

What do you guys think? Anyone else ever go through something like this?

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, you are being bullied and abused again. It’s not as extreme as what you’ve endured previously so it may not register as the same, but it is.

He’s not acknowledging all sorts of things in your life—limitations due to not having a running car, as well as work and school responsibilities.

Still he doesn’t realize that he is the reason that you don’t have custody of your other children and is blaming others for his own issues that led to this predicament.

You’re having a PTSD response to his behavior which is completely understandable considering your history with him.

All you can do, as I see it, is to strengthen those boundaries as he is a boundary buster and is intent upon you caving to his will and now he thinks he’s got God on his side.

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Redeemed,
How are things this weekend? I imagine it's a working weekend for you. Any news on the car search? How are things with your husband?

Cat

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Redeemed,

I think you are very brave for making the changes that you have made.
All I know of your situation is what you have written here, and I don’t presume to have any answers, just trying to come up with  some ideas that may be helpful to you.

Big changes, especially involving life time patterns like people pleasing are difficult to change in a short amount of time.  In my situation, I am trying to cut my goals into small baby steps.  Little by little we can reach our goals. 


I know you are struggling with being on your own.  Would you like to limit the phone calls that obviously upset you and cause stress?  What would be a reasonable amount, if any?  The only way to stop being upset by them is to limit them, I think.

You would have to tell him and then stick with what you tell him.  Otherwise he will continue to tug at your heartstrings to get his way.

.Have you thought about possibly agreeing to meet him in a public place at an agreed upon time for him to visit with your son?  This may not be ideal, but he would maintain contact, and you could set a limit on the time.  If he doesn’t show up, then it’s on him? 

It seems that when you didn’t jump in to help your husband with the finances, he got help from his boss.  Seemingly, he is getting support at church.  Maybe this will take some pressure off of you to see that he can get some help when he needs to.

Hope you’re doing ok. 

Peace and blessings,

Mustbe