After 26 years discover wife has BPD

[iadfa]

I just learned after 26 years that my wife has BPD.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Kwamina]

Hi iadfa

Welcome to bpdfamily. How did you learn your wife has BPD?

Could you tell us a bit more about what you are dealing with? What are the main BPD traits you see in your wife?

Take care and I hope to read more of your story later.

The Board Parrot

[iadfa]

it is a long long story
I am so busy with my work that I never paid any attention, I never even thought about it.  I never thought the constant fighting, arguing was abnormal.  she has lied to me about having sexual relationships in the past while we were together.  I educated myself and learned that she has been hiding all these sexual escapades from me.  I went through a really long discovery phase and couldn't figure out why she doesn't want to talk about it and she was in denial about it up to this day so I figured there was something wrong with her psychologically.  I have read numerous books trying to figure out the reason why she would do this and this lead me to the last few books I read which opened my eyes to the world of personality disorders and high conflict personalities.  I read 5 types of people who can ruin your life and stop walking on eggshells and although I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist I am certain she suffers from borderline personality disorder.  the last book I read which was stop walking on eggshells really resonated with everything that has been happening to me as a non-bp all my life.  I had to stop reading certain parts of the book at times and take a deep breath.  I am still in the early stages of discovery.  from what I can gather she would be considered a very high functioning BPD.  I am not stuck on the diagnosis and feel that there may be other pathology so I read on.  I have reached out to a psychologist and asked him to help me find a clinician (expert in personality disorders) who can assist me answer some of my questions.

[Radcliff]

iadfo, I'm sorry for your pain, but am glad you have found us!  This is a great place to get support and learn coping tools.  The real power of bpdfamily comes when you visit regularly, are active in your own thread, letting us help you practice the tools with your wife, and you reach out to support others in their threads.

If Eggshells resonated with you, you might also want to read The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder, by the same author, which teaches coping tools.

What is the most difficult thing about your day-to-day life with your wife?

WW

[iadfa]

it is hard to answer that question.  I think the hardest part is how could I have missed this, how did I not pick up on all the things that have been going on for so long.  I feel so stupid.  I must tell you that I am in shock. 

right now, at this moment in time the most important thing is for me to learn coping skills so I am reading everything I can on the subject.  she has started lashing out at my oldest child (12).  she calls her names, screams at her, scolds her, and I don't even know what happens between them when I am not home.  my daughter stays in her room when she is home and ironically my wife asks me why she stays in her room all day and all night.  she wants to know whats wrong with my daughter.  I have to find a way to tell my wife that she stays in her room so she doesn't have to see you and be scolded and screamed at.

[pearlsw]

Hi iadafa,

I'm so sorry for the shock of all this! It was a surprise for me too, and for many of us! I knew something was "off" but could not put my finger on it and it was not easy to track down reasons for what I was seeing, especially because my partner was high functioning and did not seem to meet all the traits.

Most people here do not have official diagnosis of what is going on with their partners, and you may never get this either, nevertheless you can do something regarding the behaviors you see - at least how you react to them!

Does she seem to have all the traits of BPD? Do you mean besides BPD you think there could be other issues going on?

wishing you peace, pearl.

[iadfa]

I have seen different patterns of behavior in her past that could be explained by ADHD and OCD.  she meets most of the criteria for BPD.  I have not seen nor do I suspect any symptoms or signs of suicidal ideation or self mutilation.  

criteria 1(abandonment)

she has exhibited this behavior soon after we started dating.  I thought it was different at that time but did not think it was pathological.  she would leave me for hours or days stating that she wanted to be by herself.  I was always the pushy one.  I always wanted to be with her.  I would always try to make up and get back together.  she would never try to come back to me and make up.  I would do or say anything to have her by my side.  I still do.

I was so happy specially in the beginning to be with her.  I loved her and I love her dearly to this day.  I never did understand why she would just get up and walk out sometimes for the smallest , tiniest of disagreements.  I thought it was cute at that time.  I thought she was playing hard to get.  it was cute.  I wouldn't even call some of it even fighting.  she would just have a change in her mood and decide that she was going to leave me.  these were the early years.  

she was really the only person that I had been really close to romantically so I lacked experience.  years later I found out that after some of those fights or arguments she dated other men and had sexual relationship with them.  after one of these affairs she told me if I had not come back and tried to make up with her she would have stayed with that guy.  

she tends to completely disconnect when I try to approach her and speak to her.  she calls me names and lashes out at me and walks away so we really hardly have any serious conversations.  over the last few weeks as I have learned a bit more about her condition I have been able to communicate little better.  there has been more dialogue than we have ever had. she is very bright and smart.  yet, she has absolutely no clear perception of what I am trying to do.  

she has a shield around her and she refuses to open up to me about anything that is related to our relationship or her.  she is very quick and lately has been telling me that there is no hope for us in a very sharp, confident tone.  but at the same time she plans out trips and wants to do other things that conflict with what she is saying. she clearly does not want us to be over.  

she has threatened to leave me,  she has repeatedly told me to leave and there is no other way and the next day we are holding hands and going out to eat.  it is like a roller coaster!  I want to help her, I want to help us and I know I am not supposed to be her psychiatrist but at some level I want to be there for her.  

she read one of my texts requesting a referral for a doctor that specializes in personality disorders and she laughed hysterically and asked me if I was crazy to think she has a personality disorder.  I hope this doesn't cause problems later when she eventually agrees to see someone for her problem.

[pearlsw]

Hi iadafa,

There are a lot of issues here to discuss so I strongly urge you to stay here on the boards with us and keep talking this through! This will take some time, but we can talk it all out post by post!  

There is a push/pull dynamic to learn about. There are better ways to respond to it than most of us instinctually do! In fact, a lot of the best responses have a counter-intuitive feel to them, but they can make a difference. A lot of it, to your surprise, is actually about changing ourselves!

Be sure you read all of the lessons to the right of board here. (Scroll back up to those green words!)

Let me also share these two links with you to help you with the issue of telling someone about BPD or not & getting someone into therapy:

Telling Someone You Think They Have BPD

How To Get a Loved One Into Therapy

Please come back and let us know what you think about these topics! It helps us all to learn/relearn when we talk about it!

with compassion, pearl.

p.s. Please don't be down on yourself for not seeing this sooner! Okay?  It won't change anything.  This isn't often talked about in larger societal discussions around mental health that the majority of us regular folks hear about. Who knew?

But the good news is the more of us that learn about it and talk about it could make a big difference in this not being such an underground secret! So, when you are ready, let's go forward with the work we have at hand here!

[Enabler]

Hey Iadfa,

Happy you've found us, sad you needed to.

I know this is tough because often 'facts' and 'truth' is in short supply in these kinds of relationships, but have you spent any time documenting what you know... .dates, events, other landmarks like family holidays. I found that my head was in such a muddle owing to the huge amounts of lies my W has told me (and herself), unravelling the ball of string became confusing. Starting with a concrete foundation of understanding THE FACTS was pivotal in me gaining a solid footing on me and my relationship. It's clearly not something most people think about doing, documenting their relationship fights and good times.

Does she have any other behaviours such as alcoholism? There's a fine line between alcoholism and 'likes a drink' which often goes unnoticed in the hectic nature of life. My W wouldn't say she had a problem... .but she rarely seems to leave the house without a bottle of Prosecco.

We're here for you buddy.

Enabler

[iadfa]

There is a history of alcohol use for many years.  She does not drink like she use to now.  She has a 1-2 drinks in the evening now.  She also has a history according to her if drug use in her younger years.

[pearlsw]

over the last few weeks as I have learned a bit more about her condition I have been able to communicate little better.  there has been more dialogue than we have ever had. she is very bright and smart.  yet, she has absolutely no clear perception of what I am trying to do.  

she has a shield around her and she refuses to open up to me about anything that is related to our relationship or her.  she is very quick and lately has been telling me that there is no hope for us in a very sharp, confident tone.  but at the same time she plans out trips and wants to do other things that conflict with what she is saying. she clearly does not want us to be over.  

Hi iadafa,

Can you please tell us more about how you have changed in your communication towards her lately? What seemed to be making a bit of a difference?

What kinds of things do you want to say to her?

warmly, pearl.

[iadfa]

I have tried to be more warm and soothing when she gets upset.  I repeatedly tell her that I completely understand her position and how she feels but I disagree with it.  I try to be in the background when she interacts with the kids.  Specially the older one and I try to explain to her that we should always try to speak to them in a more calm manner.  WE should try to not bash them and ridicule them and call them names.  We should instead point out the problem and try to do it in a different manner.

She in turn turns around and sarcastically remarks that did I read that in one of those ridiculous books

I feel so weak.  I feel so helpless.  I feel that this is going to be an uphill battle but I am in for the long haul.

[iadfa]

I don’t even know what type of questions I want to ask her at this point.  First goal is to improve the treatment of the kids.  She is very nice with them most of the time. But those times when her mood rapidly shifts and she starts screaming at them is what I am working on.  This has to stop first.  I can wait to ask my questions.  It also gives me time to learn more.  I’m trying to praise her for every little nice thing she does. I feel like I have 5 kids now.  No adults.

[iadfa]

I must tell you that I understand what is going on with her at an intellectual level but I am lost emotionally.  I follow the guidelines and coping mechanisms.

[Enabler]

Hey iadfa,

I’d like to understand a little more about how the dynamic between you, your wife and the kids and conflict goes. It feels like the right thing to do to play referee for all sides and ‘tell’ people how to talk to each other, however for a person with BPD ‘telling’ is often not the best way. Here’s an example:

W - you stupid scum bag kids, you’re useless and you never clean up after yourself ... .(bunch of childish language, use of words like ‘never’, a bucket load of personalised insults, stupid, scum bag... .standard stuff and a lot worse I’d imagine)

You - dearest, we don’t need to be insulting and the kids do sometimes clean up after themselves

So, on the face of that it would seem nice and calm, nice and polite and good refereeing... .however... .“dearest” she may well hate you at that point... .“we don’t need to be insulting” well she feels like she does at the moment and she just did, so shut up and stop having a go at me, I know what I’m doing, I’m not a complete moron. “The kids do sometimes clean up after themselves” now you’re just saying I’m mental right? Like I don’t have a clue what they do and don’t do, who are you to tell me what is and isn’t true. Weirdly that line has got a whole bunch of “invalidation” in it and you didn’t even know it.

Have you read the tools section on the karpman triangle? I’m on an iPhone at the moment so it’s not to easy to get but it’s in the tool section and it’s invaluable to understand this dynamic. By the sounds of things your W starts at the position of victim, she believes the girls are the perpetrators (they are making a mess that she has to clear up... .poor me), sh attacks them with foul lanaguage and accusations, she flips to perpetrator and your kids are now seen by you as the victims. You enter in as the rescuer coming up with solutions, telling people how to talk with each other (on her shoulder). Your W I suspect the. Feels attacked, assumes the victim position and you leave the incident being the perpetrator even though you were trying to sort things out in a calm way. (Or some variation or other). Actually you all feel victimised by each other some legitimately and some because they have sensitivities to invalidation. So the key is, how do you stay centred such that you don’t add to the conflict between your wife and your kids. Sometmes you actually have to allow these conflicts to play out, sometimes you need to step in. When you step in, first and most importantly you have to validate the emotion “hey. I get you’re annoyed about the mess, it’s annoying when the house is a tip, constantly clearing up sucks, can you please ask them without making their ears bleed and the nasty names” “kids, would you kindly clear up after yourselves, this clutter is getting everyone down, thanks”.

Someone might like to critique my response but rather than push both parties away saying you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re kinda pulling them both towards the middle and away from their respective corners towards a healthy solution. You didn’t disagree with your wife’s point, you asked her to cease elements of its expression, then you ‘showed’ her in a non-cliche way what asking nicely looks like.

I’d like to add that I’m still rubbish at this. I invariable allow things to play out rather than adding fuel to a fire. I oversee rather than rescue.

[iadfa]

It’s scary how familiar you are with these escalations and conflicts because you describe them better than me.  I want to thank you for your advice.  I understand your points.  I will try to be more sensitive to her feelings and emotions and keep that aspect as one of the most important parts of the resolution.  I will check out most of the suggested reads.

Thanks again

[pearlsw]

Hi iadafa,

Following up on what Enabler said I wanted to share some links with you:

Validation Skill: Stop Invalidating Others

Validation Examples

Karpman Drama Triangle

I'm really impressed too with how he was able to write out an argument can sound like that off the top of his head! But yikes!

And about thinking you are saying the right stuff, let me share that early on I was doing a lot of what you are probably doing, trying to "reason with the person". But after I read up on the information here, surprise, I realized how invalidating I could be at times. So, really, really take your time reading and rereading on this communication information because understanding the subtle differences in how we speak can go a long way to cut out at least some bad situations!

wishing you the best, pearl.

[Enabler]

I will try to be more sensitive to her feelings and emotions and keep that aspect as one of the most important parts of the resolution.

First of all I think it is important that you slow things down. Be a lot slower to get involved and a lot slower to wade in. Observe the dynamic for a while, say nothing but see how these arguments evolve. Start from the position of "Ideally I don't want to get involved here, this is not my conflict" and really really try and stay out as much as possible, yes she might scream and should and call them nasty names but my guess is she has been doing this for some time now so it's not a new thing that 'shocks' the kids. You learning and making bigger long term changes is more important, as long as the children are safe. Backwards to go forwards... .

What type of parent would you say that you are currently, and what type of parent do you aspire to be?
Passive - few rules (boundaries), kids free to explore, create mess and be chaotic if they want to
Authoritative - Age appropriate rules, supported by consequences for breach of the rules
Authoritarian - Strict heavily policed narrow rules defined to 'raise' kids in a defined way in a defined trajectory... .defined by you as per your personal blueprint.

Defining your own relationship and parenting style with the kids is important. Accepting that you are not in a relationship where you can have a joint parenting model with your W is critical. She is likely inconsistent with her model, with the model changing as per her feelings. My W for example initially acts in a passive manner avoiding conflict and ignoring bad behaviour, because conflict = stress and stress = negative emotions that she is avoidant of... .however, as the chaos increases and children invalidate and disrupt her life, she can no longer provide the unconditional acceptance of chaos required for passive parenting... .and freaks out, start blaming and shouting, accusing and shaming, thus flipping to authoritarian parenting.  This is confusing for the kids because they go from doing whatever they like in chaos, to having strict rules and punishments, and then back again. For many years I attempted to co-parent with her, defining my parenting style by her current mode, and reinforcing her... .generally when the chaos got too much and I could see her dysregulating I would step in and rescue her by being bad cop... .Defining my own parenting style has allowed me to gain respect from the children as they identify my consistency. I am bad cop now when I determine, rather than in an attempt to rescue my wife from the consequences of her passive parenting.

Hope this makes sense

Enabler

[iadfa]

I am following your advice and trying to stay calm and collected.  there was so much i was not paying attention to.  the rage comes on quite suddenly.  i have trouble not stopping her when she is calling the kids names.  it goes something like this.  i have told you before a 100 times that you are not supposed to do this.  how many times do i have to tell you?  you kids are all no good.  you are the dumbest kids.  you think other kids behave like you guys do. there is something wrong with you kids, you are abnormal.  it then escalates even further and she starts mumbling things like i should have never had kids.  having kids is over rated.  I usually stop her depending on how harsh she is with the kids because im afraid they are going to have major issues when they grow up.  sometimes she stops and sometimes she lashes out at me for not knowing anything, not doing anything and the usual name calling.

my parenting style is passive.  i try to have the kids determine what they need to do but it is not happening.  so we both have become stricter. 

I am trying to read whatever i can get my hands on the subject.i am reading get me out of here.

[Red5]

Welcome to BPDfam!

This a good and safe place to come and learn more about the BPD phenomena.

I came here in crises some nineteen months ago now, and this place has helped to understand so much more and actually be able to survive in my own marriage.

Keep posting and tell us more as you can!

Again welcome iadfa!

Kind regards... .Red5

[iadfa]

I am still in disbelief.  I feel like an outsider in my own life.  I feel like my life for the past decade and a half has just been rolling on without me being present.  I feel like I coped with all the fighting/anger and discourse by just staying away and working and keeping myself busy.  I am trying to actively be present now.  I am diligent and curious about everything that she says and does to try to understand her.  I feel like things would have been so much easier if she was not a high functioning BPD.  I am at a certain level overwhelmed by all the information I am obtaining.  I feel,like I have to sit down for a few days or weeks and just right down all the things that has happened in our life.  This information I feel will make it more real to me that there is something seriously wrong with her.  I also feel there is something seriously wrong with me for not being able to detect or notice that all these things that happened were wrong and abnormal.  I am feeling more confident about my perceptions of her and I don’t blame myself for any of this.  I know who is was.  I was a happy, confident and outgoing person and I need to start getting that back while trying to get help for her.

[Enabler]

That is exactly the attitude that’s going to get you out of this hole.

Like boiling a frog, pop him in when it’s boiling and he’ll jump straight out, pop him in when it’s cold and then turn the heat up and he’ll boil alive blissfully unaware of his own demise. BPD comes in many shapes and sizes, some times it comes with sirens of rage, slashed arms and suicide attempts, sometimes it’s less obvious, more like a golden thread running through everything. It’s always there, always influential, just not in your face.

Have you read the piece about how a borderline relationship evolves? It could be helpful with any guilt or shame you have of how you’ve got to this point. Either way, this is where you are now and there’s not much you can do about the past... .other than learn from it. Start with concrete islands of facts and build up. Use photos for dates as they will all have a digital time stamp. Start with facts and evidence first. Memories and feelings can be manipulated by current emotions so building up a better factual picture of good and bad times will help avoid skewing your recollections of the past with current sentiment.

Remember, not everything was a BPD thing, sometimes it was because you were being a d!ck as well.

Great work being present for your wife and family. Be slow to judge, be even slower to react, be even slower to open your mouth especially to say the word ‘no’.

Keep posting and take a look at other threads and get involved on other topics, I’m sure you’ll find it hugely beneficial.

Enabler

[Red5]

Have you read the piece about how a borderline relationship evolves? It could be helpful with any guilt or shame you have of how you’ve got to this point.

Afternoon Enabler!

Can you provide us with a link to that story,

the piece about how a borderline relationship evolves

I'd very much like to read that !

Hope your having a good day !

Red5

[Enabler]

Here you go studs.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

[iadfa]

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

[pearlsw]

Hi iadafa,

Just wanted to check in and see how you are feeling?

I know this can all be overwhelming... .it is a lot to take in!

warmly, pearl.

[iadfa]

I am surviving.  I’m trying to keep my head out of the water.  I am not confrontational.  There are so many questions I have for her.  I don’t even know where to start.  I realize that I can’t just go about asking what I want to know.  I realize answers may never come and not because she doesn’t want to but her reality is different than mine.    Part of me is breaking down.  After so many years of being wrong,  misjudging her, not knowing she probably suffers from BPD. I have talked to a friend who is being very kind and supportive.  I haven’t told the friend everything but it’s the first time I have talked to someone besides this chat room. 

I read on

I want to help

I don’t know if I can

But I am going to try

[iadfa]

Is it normal to feel sorry for myself?

[Notgoneyet]

   Hi iadafa, 
 

Is it normal to feel sorry for myself?

  I share MANY things with you & your story. My uBPDw of 36 yrs also have 2 young adults still living w us. During my Discovery days (2yrs) back I also couldn't bl how I couldn't have figured this CRAZY behavior out before then either. IT's so very much to take in and yes I felt so sorry for myself & my 2 sons. Sometimes I would drive to work  w Tears in my eyes thinking so much about it.
 
  In the past due to her binge drinking, shopping, spending I just thought that it was an Addiction issue, Ha who knew it was SO much more interesting & complicated    
  She has run way more times than I care to think about complete w affairs as well yet still somehow I still love her.
 

(  I have talked to a friend who is being very kind and supportive.  I haven’t told the friend everything but it’s the first time I have talked to someone besides this chat room.)

        Having a strong support system good friend or 3,therapist ,family members that I can talk to is a most important part of the self care that has kept me sane through all of this and of course this site (we all GET IT here better then most)                                                                             
  -Sorry I'm still figuring out how all this works
  From what I've read in your threads so far you r doing an awesome job so far but remember it's a process & will take some time. keep up the great work  & keep sharing with us.
   How much self care are you practicing?
   NGY   Virtual hug

[iadfa]

Thank you for sharing  with me.  I feel less alone.im sorry about what’s going on with your family. 

Today was just awful.  What she calls communication is a one sided shouting match.  She is brilliant in pointing out everything that I have not done “ perfectly”.  According to her I am at fault for everything that goes wrong in the household and between us.  My time between the 4 kids , work and her is limited.  I do my best to try to spend as much time as I can with each part of my life.  Some days I am so exhausted that I need to sleep during the afternoon to be able to function that evening or next day and that is bothering the heck out of her.  I only sleep when I can’t function anymore otherwise I’m afraid I might collapse.  I do nothing for myself.  Everything I do is to please her and take care of the kids.  IT IS NEVER ENOUGH.  She will come home and have a list of things to tell me that I should have done or I didn’t do. 

Shockingly few days ago in the middle of the night when I was tired and had a long day while finishing up the last chore of the day she said I don’t know what I would do without you.

What a life