I feel so lost and confused: I'm friends with my BPD ex, she's off about us now

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

I'm sorry if I shouldn't post this here, but thought this board would be the most suited. My pwBPD is my best friend, and not a partner. We were in a relationship a few years ago, but that's been ended a while and we managed to stay good friends since. I've known her all my life and we've been very close friends for the last 7/8 years and we also live together.

Two weeks ago we had an argument (over something that didn't need to turn into an argument) and it escalated and ended with her saying she doesn't want to be friends with me anymore. We then spoke a few days later and it changed to her not knowing if she wants to be friends with me. Her saying she doesn't want to be friends is not uncommon and is often her response to any form of disagreement. It was only the week before that, that she'd shut me off, and when having any conversation she spoke horribly to me. We'd actually managed to have a constructive conversation after this and she apologised and acknowledged how she'd been, which is not something she often does. I think because we were then in the same situation again, just a week later, I didn't stay as calm as I would have liked. I said I didn't want to live together anymore and we said we'd keep our distance in the house, as we normally cook for each other and eat together so we agreed not to do this.

Anyway, we don't see each other for a week, and she only messages in relation to money. However the Sunday just gone she asked me if I wanted to have tea with her. I agreed, because I thought this was her showing she does now want to be friends and that's all I want is to just be friends with her. When I got home she'd done a massive clean of the house, changed furniture around, put these shelves that I'd made up on the wall and cooked tea for us. We were getting on fine and this continued during the week, even speaking about things to buy for our house too.

Last night we were going out with some old friends. I'd previously said I wasn't sure I'd feel comfortable going when she said about not being friends, but given that we'd been getting on okay for the last week and she'd initiated it all, I was thinking/hoping we were now okay. I decided to check with her about still going and then she changed back to being off with me, it was as if we'd not actually spent time together this last week.

I ended up going out still and luckily we got on really well, we chatted loads and she asked me to come back to her parents house (we were in a different town visiting friends to where we normally live). I said yes and it was all good, and even this morning things were still fine and she mentioned about going to get food later. So later I ask about going to get food and then she's changed again, she just responded shortly saying she didn't know if she wanted to and then we were back in the same cycle. I said I think we need to talk about all this, it's making me confused as I'm getting different reactions. She then said she still doesn't know if she wants to be friends with me, and her initiating tea and being with me this last week wasn't because she wanted to be friends.

I feel so hurt and confused, it's like she's pushing me away but then pulling me back. We've done all this plenty of times before but this time it's lasted longer than it usually does. I'm currently finishing my Masters degree, I've got so much work to do and I'm finding it really hard to concentrate because of everything that's going on. I love and care about her so much but I don't know what to do and I'm scared that this is actually the end. Or that this cycle of acting like things are okay, but really it's not is going to repeat. I've tried to explain my concerns and that as selfish as it may be, that I'm needing a bit more certainty of things as it's effecting my work. She won't even look at me properly and just keeps saying she doesn't know to any questions I ask about our friendship. I am going to give her more space, but I really don't know what's best.

It makes me feel like I'm just being used and that she's got this control over me as to when it's okay for us to be friends, and that she keeps getting to decide when we are and when we aren't.

I apologise for the length of this, this is maybe more of a vent then a question. I don't really have anybody to talk to about all this and it's sending me into a bit of a bad place mentally and emotionally.

[Fleetwood07]

Hello,

I'm sorry if I shouldn't post this here, but thought this board would be the most suited. My pwBPD is my best friend, and not a partner. We were in a relationship a few years ago, but that's been ended a while and we managed to stay good friends since. I've known her all my life and we've been very close friends for the last 7/8 years and we also live together.

Two weeks ago we had an argument (over something that didn't need to turn into an argument) and it escalated and ended with her saying she doesn't want to be friends with me anymore. We then spoke a few days later and it changed to her not knowing if she wants to be friends with me. Her saying she doesn't want to be friends is not uncommon and is often her response to any form of disagreement. It was only the week before that, that she'd shut me off, and when having any conversation she spoke horribly to me. We'd actually managed to have a constructive conversation after this and she apologised and acknowledged how she'd been, which is not something she often does. I think because we were then in the same situation again, just a week later, I didn't stay as calm as I would have liked. I said I didn't want to live together anymore and we said we'd keep our distance in the house, as we normally cook for each other and eat together so we agreed not to do this.

Anyway, we don't see each other for a week, and she only messages in relation to money. However the Sunday just gone she asked me if I wanted to have tea with her. I agreed, because I thought this was her showing she does now want to be friends and that's all I want is to just be friends with her. When I got home she'd done a massive clean of the house, changed furniture around, put these shelves that I'd made up on the wall and cooked tea for us. We were getting on fine and this continued during the week, even speaking about things to buy for our house too.

Last night we were going out with some old friends. I'd previously said I wasn't sure I'd feel comfortable going when she said about not being friends, but given that we'd been getting on okay for the last week and she'd initiated it all, I was thinking/hoping we were now okay. I decided to check with her about still going and then she changed back to being off with me, it was as if we'd not actually spent time together this last week.

I ended up going out still and luckily we got on really well, we chatted loads and she asked me to come back to her parents house (we were in a different town visiting friends to where we normally live). I said yes and it was all good, and even this morning things were still fine and she mentioned about going to get food later. So later I ask about going to get food and then she's changed again, she just responded shortly saying she didn't know if she wanted to and then we were back in the same cycle. I said I think we need to talk about all this, it's making me confused as I'm getting different reactions. She then said she still doesn't know if she wants to be friends with me, and her initiating tea and being with me this last week wasn't because she wanted to be friends.

I feel so hurt and confused, it's like she's pushing me away but then pulling me back. We've done all this plenty of times before but this time it's lasted longer than it usually does. I'm currently finishing my Masters degree, I've got so much work to do and I'm finding it really hard to concentrate because of everything that's going on. I love and care about her so much but I don't know what to do and I'm scared that this is actually the end. Or that this cycle of acting like things are okay, but really it's not is going to repeat. I've tried to explain my concerns and that as selfish as it may be, that I'm needing a bit more certainty of things as it's effecting my work. She won't even look at me properly and just keeps saying she doesn't know to any questions I ask about our friendship. I am going to give her more space, but I really don't know what's best.

It makes me feel like I'm just being used and that she's got this control over me as to when it's okay for us to be friends, and that she keeps getting to decide when we are and when we aren't.

I apologise for the length of this, this is maybe more of a vent then a question. I don't really have anybody to talk to about all this and it's sending me into a bit of a bad place mentally and emotionally.

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[pearlsw]

Hi Fleetwood07,



Sorry to hear what you are experiencing with your friend/ex partner/roommate!

That sounds a lot like the off/on stuff we hear about in a lot of the relationships you read about around here!

Not sure how much experience you have with BPD, but there is a lot to read here to help get you up to speed!

In this case, it sounds like she is upset, but also torn. She seems to see that things can work and wants to connect, and then her thoughts take her in another direction.

Using some of the tools here might help things from escalating so much, at least for some of the times, if you are willing to make adjustments in your communication style to better approach her issues. It takes a lot of practice and self-discipline, but the tools can help you in all relationships so they are worth studying!

I am sorry you are feeling bad. You are not alone in this! Keep posting and replying - it helps others get to know you and offer more and more support!

What do you do to help soothe/comfort yourself when you are feeling bad mentally and emotionally?

wishing you the best, pearl.

[Fleetwood07]

Thank you very much for your reply pearl!

I've been reading this forum for the last couple of weeks and it's given me some comfort in being able to relate to various things people have posted.

She first told me about her BPD about 3/4 years ago now. I started learning about it from the first day she told me, but I think the communication methods/tools on here are not something I'd come across before and will definitely have a read over to try and apply it.

I feel like I'm not always the best at helping myself when I'm not feeling good mentally/emotionally. I finished CBT last month, which was amazing and helped me so much but it's all gone a bit down hill since then. I have OCD but was also using CBT to help with handling my emotions and my relationship with my friend.

I'm finding it harder to help myself because of the amount of work I've got to do for my Master's degree, which I have a month to finish. I'm so worried about everything that's been going on with my friend that I'm just sat for hours trying to write but unable to and over the last few weeks I've gotten quite far behind. I'm too nervous about asking for help from my supervisor as I'd then have to explain what's going on.

[babyducks]

Hi Fleetwood7,

I'm sorry you have these troubles going on when you are working for your Master's degree.    Stress is hard to handle.    And you are describing a lot of it,  an unsettled home life and a pressure moment in your work (student) life.    My response to stress is 1) acknowledge it,  I tend to think I shouldn't ~feel~ or ~be~ stressed, that I should be tough enuf to handle it all.     and then 2) up my level of self care.    give myself permission to take a break,   find ways to make myself more comfortable.   find ways to replace the stress with something else.    sometimes I go for a bike ride on the canal near me.   even if I only go for an hour it helps.   sometimes I binge watch something silly on the television so my mind can relax.

my experience with my pwBPD was that when my attention turned from her to something else, she reacted as if I had rejected her.    She had a very high sensitivity to any perceived rejection and a higher than average need for attention.     for example as my mother entered her final illness my attention turned toward my mother,  as it should have.   for that month my focus, my energy and my efforts were all on my mother, and my pwBPD was very upset by that.

is there something you can do today to give yourself a break from the worry?

'ducks

[Fleetwood07]

Hi Ducks, thank you very much for your reply!

Yeah, I tend to get annoyed at myself for feeling stressed or anything negative, which I know can be self destructive at times. I have tried to accept how I'm feeling more today and have taken some time to chill a bit. I took your recommendation of binge watching something, so have been binge watching Friends all day (for the millionth time :P)

I'm sorry to hear about how your pwBPD treated you with your mother. It was of course definitely right for you to turn your attention solely to your mother at that time.

[babyducks]

Hi Fleetwood07,

I hope you feel a little bit more relaxed after your chill time.

I noticed upstream you said that you feel hurt and confused when she pushes you away and then pulls you back.    Boy I understand that.    You probably know by now that harmfully intense moods that change rapidly are one of the hallmarks of this disorder.    When her moods are that labile, your approach of backing off slightly and giving some space is a good one.    people who have this disorder take longer to return to a 'baseline' mood.    continuing to revisit the topic can heighten already intense feelings.

I've tried to explain my concerns and that as selfish as it may be, that I'm needing a bit more certainty of things as it's effecting my work.

honestly Fleetwood, it does not sound selfish at all. it sounds normal.  Balancing your needs and the needs of another person is tricky.    it's even harder when the other person has the traits of a mental illness.     Looking to a ill person for support, understanding, and explanations is often not possible to the degree we would like.     


can I ask?   what would you like to see happen in the next few weeks?

'ducks

[Fleetwood07]

Hi Ducks,

I've felt a bit more relaxed but I still don't feel in a good place yet.

Yeah the whole push/pull and splitting I'd say is one of the main behaviours she has, and it is really hard isn't it to be on the receiving end of that. I never know how to really handle it.

I know that space is good, it's really hard to manage the fear that she won't come back in the meantime though. It always feels like I'm the one just waiting for her to return back to how things were. It's never lasted this long before. Thank you for saying it doesn't sound selfish.

Looking to a ill person for support, understanding, and explanations is often not possible to the degree we would like.   

I can definitely relate to this. Sometimes I worry I may expect too much, and then have to remind myself that it's not really her fault that she can't always support and understand to the extend I'd like.

can I ask?   what would you like to see happen in the next few weeks?

Gosh I just pray that everything's okay between us. I hope that I'm not still left in limbo or that she portrays things are okay and then changes again.

I'd also like to be able to have a constructive conversation about everything that's happened because it's kinda getting too much. But I'm worried by doing that it won't go well, because if I've ever tried to bring up how I've felt before it just ends in me apologising.

I've also decided I'm going to the university support centre tomorrow, to discuss my options with my university work. I went to them last year and they referred me for CBT so I'm hoping I can get further help again with this. I recognise that when my friend does this it feels like the end of the world to me, but I want to learn to be stronger. After all if this does turn out to actually be the end of our friendship, I think I will need help with dealing with that.

[babyducks]

hi again Fleetwood07

I think it's a great idea to reach out for university support centre for some additional support.   

Over on the right hand side of the page     in the handy side bar is a bunch of resources and helpful links.     Have you had time to take a look at some of them?

This is one of my favorites:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

It takes a great deal of strength and emotional stability to be in a BP relationship and not be emotionally injured by it.  A person in a weak emotional state, who feels wounded/abused, or depressed is likely to be consumed by the relationship, confused by the intense rages and idealization, and finding their self worth in decline.  If you chose this path, you've got to be very strong and very balanced.

Realistic Expectations: A person with BPD is emotionally underdeveloped and does not have "adult" emotional skills - especially in times of stress.  If you are in this type of relationship it is important to have realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.  It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase, not accept the external excuses for the bad behavior, and not hope that changing your behavior to heal someone else.

I like what it says about the two "importants".     It's important to have realistic expectations and it is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is.   

If you were to have a constructive conversation what would you like to tell your friend?    I would suggest it's a good idea to 'practice' here with us first.    We might be able to coach you on small changes to your approach that could make the conversation less difficult.     I certainly wouldn't want you to end up apologizing.          how do you conversations normally go?   

'ducks

[Fleetwood07]

Hey,

Thank you, I've been to see the university this morning and the person I spoke to was really nice and surprisingly they were really knowledgeable about BPD which I wasn't expecting. So it was good to be able to talk to somebody about what's going on in person right now.

They also recommended giving my friend space, and it's made me think twice right now about bringing up a conversation about everything with her. I do think it needs to happen at some point, but chatting to him has made me realise I need to take a step back and focus on myself. (As I've kinda been obsessing over what to say and just the situation as a whole) He's recommended I go back to CBT, and arranged for me to come back in next week to talk again.

I've also emailed my supervisor for my final project to explain how I'm feeling, so I'm hoping there's some options available as unfortunately my head isn't in the right place to do my best with my work right now.

Over on the right hand side of the page     in the handy side bar is a bunch of resources and helpful links.     Have you had time to take a look at some of them?

I have been working my way through some of them, they are all seeming very helpful and I particularly like what you posted. How it's important to have realistic expectations and to accept the relationship behaviour for what it is. I definitely let myself get consumed by it all. Being stronger and more balanced are skills I'd like to acquire.

That sounds great (and wise) to be able to practice a conversation here beforehand thank you. Normally our conversations tend to end up me leading it, as she will often just say she has nothing that she wants to say to me. She is normally one to shut herself off for days and be silent. I will be honest the conversations often end in me getting upset, as I end up feeling like I'm trying to talk to somebody that now has such hatred for me. Me getting upset doesn't really help the situation as she doesn't really deal well with people being upset.

As soon as she says she has nothing to say, I kinda know we're not going to have a constructive conversation. There doesn't feel like there's anything I can say right in those situations. This doesn't happen every single time, if anything I'd say over the last year or so we had been getting much better. But around 5 months ago there was another situation of her not wanting to be my friend, again this was horribly intense and felt very final and I felt hopeless in conversation (but luckily this only lasted a few days) and then now everything that's happened over the last month, feels a bit like we're back to square one again.

I need to have more of a think about exactly what I'd like to say and then I'll post it here to make sure I'm not going to make the situation worse

[Radcliff]

Fleetwood07,

It's been a while.  How are things going with you?

RC

[Fleetwood07]

Fleetwood07,

It's been a while.  How are things going with you?

RC

Thank you very much for messaging Radcliff! Things are very bad again with my friend, it's been the most exhausting few months and I'm unsure how I'm feeling about things.

After I last updated this post, I continued to give her space for 2 weeks. Coincidentally on the same day I'd planned to approach her to talk, she actually started talking to me first and asked me if I wanted to have tea with her. I said yes and was so surprised that I didn't dare talk about what I'd planned for the fear or ruining things. She continued initiating things with me, but I became so worried that she still didn't know if she wanted to be my friend and was just doing it "to be nice" again. I thought that she would have spoken to me about it given how everything was left. I didn't bring it up for around another 2 weeks when I decided to write a little letter to clear the air as I was worried. I genuinely didn't think there would be anything to take wrong in what I'd written, but it was somehow taken badly and she'd totally missed the point of what I was saying. She messaged me quite late at night so I didn't respond, but in the morning she then messaged to apologise for how she'd reacted and that she'd jumped the gun with what I was actually saying.

The next day we had an amazing chat. She told me she was now in a good head space and felt okay to talk to me and she was open about her feelings and she apologised for how she'd been with me. We went out for drinks that night and we talked about everything a lot. We then had an amazing few days and then we had a night where things almost passed being more than friends. This sometimes happens every now and again which confuses things. We'd had a bit to drink and she told me she wanted to kiss me and I said the same and we spoke a bit about things along those lines.

The next night, is when it all goes downhill again. She then told me she was going for drinks with this girl and I felt awkward and uncomfortable after the night before. She asked me what was wrong and I ended up admitting I had feelings for her. I know that we work best as friends and I wasn't expecting her to say the same or want for anything further to happen. Anyway she didn't take it well and then told me the night before didn't mean anything, she just wanted to kiss me because "I'm just a person" and she thinks the same about other people and I shouldn't take that in as meaning anything.

I felt hurt by this, and it was like she'd changed back to not being nice. I understand it was maybe an overwhelming thing to say but she said some mean things in response. The cycle repeats again and we talk about it and she's then okay but I kind of went into breakdown mode. I didn't show this but I just feel in disbelief. Within the space of a few days, we'd gone from her saying sorry and telling me how much I mean to her and all these such nice things, to just the complete opposite and like I'm the worst person again.

I ended up telling her I felt like I needed help and that I'd got myself into a bad state and now she's accused me of manipulating her. She now doesn't want to be my friend again and doesn't want to talk and I feel so confused. It's making me feel like I'm going crazy and it's made question my whole self and if I am being manipulative. Maybe it was wrong to tell her I needed help and in a bad state. I genuinely had no intentions or idea it would come across that I was manipulating her by telling her this. So I feel like I've messed everything up and I'm completely out of ideas. It's made me angry she thinks I'm manipulating her, when I genuinely just feel like I've hit rock bottom from this absolutely emotionally exhausting experience of pushing and pulling. I feel like this week has been such an example of idealisation/devaluation. It always amazes me how quickly this changes. I always want to support her and show I'm there for her but it's so tiring always being the one trying to make things better and waiting for her to come around

[Fleetwood07]

I feel like maybe it is time to let go. I don’t want to, but I don’t know how else to keep taking all of this. We’ve been best friends for years and she’s such a massive part of my life, I sort of can’t imagine her not being in my life.

She makes me feel so disposable, but when she comes back she makes me feel so happy.

I’m scared to agree with her that we shouldn’t be friends because I feel she will hold onto that and will cause her to think even more that she doesn’t want to be my friend. I don’t know what to believe.

Deep down I believe her when everything’s okay and the things she tells me then and I believe she’s genuine in her friendship. When things are bad I struggle to believe that’s how she’s really feeling, but it comes across so intense I feel I’d be stupid to not start believing it when she says she doesn’t want to be friends.

I don’t know what to do or if I can do anything.

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry to hear of the tough turn of events.  When we are in a relationship with a pwBPD, it's easy to doubt our own reality.  I don't have any sense that you were being manipulative.  It reads to me like you were being genuine.  You have emotions and needs.  Our pwBPD have trouble sometimes understanding our emotions and needs, and can feel threatened by them.  It seems like she felt threatened by the idea of you having feelings for her.  She pushed you away, and it hurt.

Her friendship is a huge part of your life.  Do you think that you could definitively move on from the idea of having romantic feelings for her in order to preserve the friendship?  Is that a realistic expectation?  (I'm not challenging, it may or may not be, only you can know).

RC