Status update: not sure what to do

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi guys,

I have been away for a while and somehow I feel that helped me. Not seeing similar traits and stories helped me detach a little more.

However, although it is more than 3 months since the infamous bar incident and final blocking, I am certainly not detached yet.

Recently I saw her while going back home. She was sitting in the bus (lane next to mine). She was looking at me through the window, but when she saw that I saw her as well, she turned away.
I also saw some friends of her recently.
Especially these occasions are absolutely NOT helping.

In the past I always talked about how I would prefer some sort of low contact. I did NOT want to become afraid of her. I did NOT want the enormous level of anxiety. I did NOT want to hate her. Low contact would have helped me a lot in that respect. But the incident/NC/blocking have completely destroyed what I tried to achieve... .

Sometimes I just want to let her know how completely absurd her behaviour was and still is. How much she hurt me.

But on the other hand I know that would not bring me anywhere: she won't re establish some sort of LC if her shame gets triggered again.

To be honest I would really like things to be somewhat normal again. But the only way I would see working is pretending nothing ever happened and I am kinda done with that... .I allowed that to happen before and every single time it eventually just did not work.

I have managed to not send her anything, but I would still like to know: isn't there a way... .?

[EdR]

Hi guys,

I have been away for a while and somehow I feel that helped me. Not seeing similar traits and stories helped me detach a little more.

However, although it is more than 3 months since the infamous bar incident and final blocking, I am certainly not detached yet.

Recently I saw her while going back home. She was sitting in the bus (lane next to mine). She was looking at me through the window, but when she saw that I saw her as well, she turned away.
I also saw some friends of her recently.
Especially these occasions are absolutely NOT helping.

In the past I always talked about how I would prefer some sort of low contact. I did NOT want to become afraid of her. I did NOT want the enormous level of anxiety. I did NOT want to hate her. Low contact would have helped me a lot in that respect. But the incident/NC/blocking have completely destroyed what I tried to achieve... .

Sometimes I just want to let her know how completely absurd her behaviour was and still is. How much she hurt me.

But on the other hand I know that would not bring me anywhere: she won't re establish some sort of LC if her shame gets triggered again.

To be honest I would really like things to be somewhat normal again. But the only way I would see working is pretending nothing ever happened and I am kinda done with that... .I allowed that to happen before and every single time it eventually just did not work.

I have managed to not send her anything, but I would still like to know: isn't there a way... .?

[XSurvivorX]

EdR,

That's a real tough one.  I'm not sure there is any specific answer to that one at all, honestly.

I guess my question to you would be, what is the ultimate outcome that you would want to see occur?

Without knowing all of the specifics of your situation, all I can say is that when it comes to BPD, we can't opt-out of the "bad times" in favor of just keeping with the "good" ones.  So, what ultimately outcome would you want to achieve?

[Cromwell]

Hi Edr

I tried the LC approach, I hoped that some contact would smooth over or blunt some of the prior hurt; in practice, it lasted 3 weeks and although nothing on the surface went haywire - that anxiety it didnt evaporate it started bubbling again. This experience youve had recently, perhaps a good thing to have seen how you felt with not been in direct contact

Hi guys,

I have been away for a while and somehow I feel that helped me. Not seeing similar traits and stories helped me detach a little more.

I just ended up negating my ex out of the equation of supplying solace to the hurt that originated from her behaviour in the first place.

Have you ever been back to that bar since what happened?

[EdR]

Hi Edr

I tried the LC approach, I hoped that some contact would smooth over or blunt some of the prior hurt; in practice, it lasted 3 weeks and although nothing on the surface went haywire - that anxiety it didnt evaporate it started bubbling again. This experience youve had recently, perhaps a good thing to have seen how you felt with not been in direct contact

I just ended up negating my ex out of the equation of supplying solace to the hurt that originated from her behaviour in the first place.

Have you ever been back to that bar since what happened?

Thanks guys! Thank you Cromwell!

No, I haven't been back to that same bar. On foot I even decided to take a small detour every time I normally would just walk by.
(I do not take this detour while using 'faster transportation' (like by car) though.)

Thing is... .although I indeed do not feel that same anxiety of before (did she misinterpret this text? Is something wrong? Etc.). But the anxiety levels of seeing her or her friends just go through the roof.
I hate that... .and I always wanted to remain LC to somehow smooth out both. It kinda worked, until that infamous bar incident... .

I am NOT willing to move to another city for this girl. That would be absurd. But I DO want this situation to become more manageable. Because I will be seeing her for sure... .

[EdR]

To be clear: I am not sending her anything mostly because she has shown to be unreliable.
Just like that final conversation outside that bar: she clearly stated in front of her boyfriend that she wanted to remain in contact. She unblocked me, send me an apology and all seemed better again. But about a week later (without any further contact) she blocked me.

I feel that a message from my side (e-mail would still be an option) could go two ways: it could have the desired effect of some sort of LC and dropping of anxiety levels. It has done that before.
Or it could just lead her to paint this stalker picture of me.

I feel that that second option gets greater when her shame gets triggered. And I am just not willing to risk it.

But I am still looking and hoping for some way to be able to get there, without much risk involved. But I am not seeing it... .

[Cromwell]

Hi Edr

Nothing here to manage - "avoid like the plague" is all you need to do, its just a shock from seeing her unexpectedly and perhaps not being entirely pre-set about how you would react to it?

For instance, you imagine you will see her again - rather than let it happen, what sort of plan do you have? Its what took me by surprise and led me to interacting, the lack of being decisive before hand for that eventuality. Youve got the advantage of deciding how to handle her, shes already shown by her body language that she wasnt comfortable to even maintain eye contact. Thats actually a good sign - it shouldnt be difficult to avoid her in future there has already been this safe distance exposure and by the sounds of it, shes just as spiked in anxiety as you are. Your lack of contact over this time has left her disempowered - she doesnt know what you think, or feel, theres nothing there to manipulate or use as ammunition to support whatever embryonic state rumours she tried to fertilise but failed to develop.

[Cromwell]

To be clear: I am not sending her anything mostly because she has shown to be unreliable.
Just like that final conversation outside that bar: she clearly stated in front of her boyfriend that she wanted to remain in contact. She unblocked me, send me an apology and all seemed better again. But about a week later (without any further contact) she blocked me.

I feel that a message from my side (e-mail would still be an option) could go two ways: it could have the desired effect of some sort of LC and dropping of anxiety levels. It has done that before.
Or it could just lead her to paint this stalker picture of me.

I feel that that second option gets greater when her shame gets triggered. And I am just not willing to risk it.

But I am still looking and hoping for some way to be able to get there, without much risk involved. But I am not seeing it... .

Neither am I Edr, im not the gambler type and the odds on here are not in my mind as either spin for red or black on the wheel.

If she is worth the risk of being painted as a stalker to anyone who will listen, then you would already have sent the email?

This sort of decision making is based on gambling, when it comes to dealing with an unpredictable, unreliable person those odds go beyond spin for red or black on the wheel. Add BPD to the equation, I would do better to put my life savings into the high stake slots at Vegas than to forecast how any interaction might work out in my best interests.

[EdR]

Haven't slept at all unfortunately... .I feel gutted.

You are right, Vegas would be a better choice for a gamble.
Although I would love it to happen, I don't think we will ever be able to return to the same level of friendship. I'd like to compare it to some extent with kids who eventually leave their parents: although it hurts, I can live with my kids leaving. But I can't live with never seeing them again, and being painted black to all of their friends. I care for them, I love them in a way. I don't understand how this suddenly isn't reciprocal anymore.

Like I said: I feel gutted.

[Cromwell]

Hi Edr

I felt the same way, but I also at the same time felt uncomfortable with those feelings.

When I started the relationship I wanted a girlfriend for good company, fun times and experiences.

I did not want to increment in time to feel as if I was regarded as some surrogate father figure. Those feelings became part of the package when having to rescue constantly, protect and caretake. Ive had relationships with younger woman before, in a lot of cases their emotional maturity and self reliance was the same if not in some aspects more than mine.

Each time I split from her, there was a shadow of guilt, which I shouldnt have carried. It was the feeling of leaving someone who couldnt cope with life, who you felt love for; to go it alone. Even having a LC is noble intent, but I want to take away this feeling you have; there is a world full of caretakers, BPDs are resourceful survivors, you have to think of number one because how it ends up is your ex getting on with life, you left in anxiety and despair and not a shred of gratitude for all that thought and consideration youve shown. You were betrayed for it Edr, of course it hurts - but ever the more reason to not re-expose it.

This board is full of love-tragedy stories, the world is full of them. Weve all been confronted with deep pain - but theres the choice to stem the flow, not return for more. Things can always get - worse - I know I probably wouldnt have even needed this support if Idve bailed out of the r/s when the first devaluation happened. I went back for more, tried everything; it wasnt just in vain, it became an emotional and physical grind down.

Personality Disorder does not, standing alone, equal mental illness. Regardless of why she bad mouthed you, caused a situation you cant even go back to a pub - the fact remains; it happened, it created a problem and feelings of love, understanding empathy - they are a sideshow and can distract from taking a sensible pragmatic approach to safeguarding ourselves from future problems.

Listen close to your feelings; you feel gutted - I did too - not enough to stop returning again to be patched up, re-gutted each time.

Even if you go back and everything on the surface seems to go the way youd like it to - whats done will always carry a question mark over her head, it - cant - ever be the same as it ever was. That anxiety can only be repressed away when we are in a relationship where a betrayal and lack of trust has become estabished.

I went to LC after 8 months NC, I got told not to do it here, I took the advice but was drawn back to that mesmerised state, looking to her to soothe that deep rooted pain - bedrock of anger that is the crux of all the ice-coated emotions. I regretted it, made a mistake and rectified it but only because of the support I had here. Prior to that I was recycled so many times back and forth seemingly devoid of any sense of reason. There is not a single post ive read on this board that has said

 "I went through a nightmare with my ex, but went back, shes changed and life is but a dream now - thanks for being there through the hard times".

Its always the theme of; gutted, self esteem down the drain, and the occasional tepid foray back for more in a quest to soothe the wounds already made - based on not more than hope. It is gambling Edr, its a good analogy you give. I didnt have much statistics at high school, im reading books on it now. Today my ex is out my life - Ive healed from those wounds - I avoid where she works despite previously enjoying a coffee there. Im not gutted by it anymore - I have no responsibility for her and actually - never had beyond what I tangled and enmeshed myself into feeling obliged.

You arent married to her, no kids - regardless of her issues, she is a grown up adult, concious of her choices. Betraying you was a concious act, regardless of any disorder.

Do you think she is losing any sleep, ravished withr guilt about how you feel right now? She might not be able to maintain an eye contact with the person she has badmouthed, but shes got her own inner narrative of what she thinks of herself, and you, its only an assumption to think she has confronted any shame about it, even if shehas - people dont like to be close to those who trigger that feeling. Ive tried to find the value in this Edr, only bit of hope I can give is in my own case I realised the odds of focusing on myself to get better became more obvious than what I kept doing and kept failing.

im looking forward to the day you post here and its not "i feel gutted", spiked with anxiety and in emotional suffering. Surrogate parenting not turned out as fulfilling as it cracked out to be? No problem, remove yourself that burden - its never been yours to carry in the first place. A friend you would at least expect to admit wrong doing, give you the dignity of deciding on a fair playing field if you want to accept - are you ok wanting to be friends with someone who lacks the moral fibre to give you that? I dont think you deserve any better until you feel within yourself that you want more than this.

[EdR]

Thank you so much Cromwell for your elaborate reply. When I read it, I see so much truth in it again.

There should not be any going back. I know that. But unfortunately my heart does not seem to be willing to truly believe and accept that.

I probably need people to replace her. Not so much her, but the friendship and bond we had. I tried and really do try, but it doesn't work for me yet...

[Cromwell]

Thank you so much Cromwell for your elaborate reply. When I read it, I see so much truth in it again.

There should not be any going back. I know that. But unfortunately my heart does not seem to be willing to truly believe and accept that.

I probably need people to replace her. Not so much her, but the friendship and bond we had. I tried and really do try, but it doesn't work for me yet...

Thats ok, Always here for you Edr

A not so - restrained - emotionally adjusted boyfriend, but one who had been entirely enchanted, mesmerised, plus imbued with a few drinks.

and the whole scenario could easily have turned out differently - "could have" but didnt. Youve got anxiety triggers when you see her- the inner claxon sound of "something proven as hazardous to health is nearby"

Then on an emotional level there is conflict;  feelings of "gutted" without organs, yet still having a heart that pines for what once was. I relate strongly to the confusion, the pain, the hoping to soothe by some form of contact.

Theres nothing elaborate to say when I distill all my experience down to the basics; I went back many times, over a period of years - yep it was soothing, but soothing is not curing.