Committing to Recovery from Abuse

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've had a pretty difficult time committing to my own recovery from abuse on an emotional level. I'm good at the intellectual part. And I came to the board today to admit this in hopes it will help me make a deeper, lasting commitment.

Today, I am reading through the "Taking Hold of Your Mind: “What” Skills: Observing, Describing, and Participating" document I found here that lives at www.dbtselfhelp.com/What_Skills.pdf
And, also "Mindfulness without Meditation that lives at www.actmindfully.com.au/upimages/Mindfulness_without_meditation_--_Russ_Harris_--_HCPJ_Oct_09.pdf

I also want to say that even though I have boundaries with my uBPD Mom, I've caught myself regulating my own emotions with my "quality" of contact with her (which is always determined or colored by her disordered thinking, both directly and indirectly). I know I do this with others close to me, too. These behaviors are like weeds in my mind! Regular weeding is needed, and the weeds get really big when you're not "looking"! "Taking Hold of Your Mind" seems like a hopeful place to start with dismantling this pattern I've put myself into.

I'm trying to be gentle with myself today as I think about all of this. It's not an easy time for me. 

Love, Recycle

[Recycle]

I've had a pretty difficult time committing to my own recovery from abuse on an emotional level. I'm good at the intellectual part. And I came to the board today to admit this in hopes it will help me make a deeper, lasting commitment.

Today, I am reading through the "Taking Hold of Your Mind: “What” Skills: Observing, Describing, and Participating" document I found here that lives at www.dbtselfhelp.com/What_Skills.pdf
And, also "Mindfulness without Meditation that lives at www.actmindfully.com.au/upimages/Mindfulness_without_meditation_--_Russ_Harris_--_HCPJ_Oct_09.pdf

I also want to say that even though I have boundaries with my uBPD Mom, I've caught myself regulating my own emotions with my "quality" of contact with her (which is always determined or colored by her disordered thinking, both directly and indirectly). I know I do this with others close to me, too. These behaviors are like weeds in my mind! Regular weeding is needed, and the weeds get really big when you're not "looking"! "Taking Hold of Your Mind" seems like a hopeful place to start with dismantling this pattern I've put myself into.

I'm trying to be gentle with myself today as I think about all of this. It's not an easy time for me. 

Love, Recycle

[Harri]

Hi Recycle.  Recovery is difficult and it is even more difficult to choose to stay with it so I am very happy that you chose to reach out here. 

What do you mean when you say:

I've caught myself regulating my own emotions with my "quality" of contact with her (which is always determined or colored by her disordered thinking, both directly and indirectly).

Do you mean that your emotions are still tied to your moms reactions?  or is it something else?

None of this is easy and it is 'normal' to struggle with healing.  I always told myself that over and over because I got so frustrated and felt defeated that I was still dealing with <fill in the blank>. 

How can I help you?  I have not yet read the articles you linked but I will.  Hopefully we can discuss more then.  In the meantime, I am okay with you being where you are at right now.  It just is and it won't last forever.  I do wish I could make things easier for you though.  hang in there and we will figure things out in time.

 

[Learning2Thrive]

  Recycle,

I’m here cheering you on.  

Yes, be gentle with yourself and let us know how you’re doing and how we may help.   You are worthy—more than worthy!

L2T

[Recycle]

Hi, Harri 
You asked me what I meant when I said,
     "I've caught myself regulating my own emotions with my "quality" of contact
      with her (which is always determined or colored by her disordered thinking,
      both directly and indirectly)."

First, let me explain that I've recently realized I'm attempting to maintain some type of relationship with my uBPD Mom by intellectualizing our interactions. I have tried as much as possible to stuff my emotions down when I talk to her. I do this to protect myself because 9 times out of 10 when I tell her how I feel, her behavior is very upsetting/triggering for me. Also, sadly, I think I've labeled this intellectualizing as "good boundaries" and have been patting myself on the back for it.

So, when I said I regulate my own emotions with my "quality" of contact with her, I think I meant that if we have anything but a positive interaction in my book ("quality"), I believe I haven't stuffed my emotions down well enough. And the cycle repeats and strengthens itself by me stuffing down my emotions, even more, the next time we talk.

My Mom hasn't called or contacted me online in two weeks. She threw up a wall after I told her that in order to help her get her attic cleaned in prep for a possible move to senior living, I needed her to stop cancelling our plans for said cleaning (she has been asking for help to do this for 10 years, and cancels 95% of all her planned appointments/get-togethers).  After telling me to "forget it" (common), she threw up an even taller wall after I replied, "yes, let's forget it". The prize? I middle-of-the-night FB message that said, "You have hurt me for the last time." Haven't heard from her since.

Thank you for asking, Harri, about how you can help me. Honestly, being here to listen, ask questions, and give feedback is so very helpful. At this point, if you have any advice or guidance (links?) on how the heck I can prepare myself if she does contact me again, I would really appreciate it. I seriously am feeling lost about it, because I've decided I can't intellectualize our conversations anymore. I feel stuck. I can't trust her enough to talk on an emotional level.

Learning2Thrive: THANK YOU!   

[Panda39]

Today, I am reading through the "Taking Hold of Your Mind: “What” Skills: Observing, Describing, and Participating"

Hi Recycle,

This is very much what I did with my mom.  My mom is not BPD but is critical (I internalized a lot of negative messages from her).

I had a year of breakdowns that turned into breakthroughs... .tied to a past relationship, my marriage, and my self-esteem which was tied to my relationship with my mom.

At the end of that year I paid my mom a visit at Christmas and I Observed, Described, Participated... .was Mindful.  It was very interesting, I did it on my own, I didn't know it was a thing... .that it had a name.

Imagine sitting on a park bench people watching.  Watching two people you don't know have a conversation.  You aren't getting emotional because you are looking at it from an outside... .detached perspective.  What do you see when watching them?  While your having a conversation with your mom imagine sitting on that bench watching the two of you.  I can only describe it as being "in" it and being "outside" of it.

That Christmas I found myself participating in conversations with my mom and at the same time watching us like an outside observer.  I was able to see her from that hurt little girl perspective (my usual role) as I participated in the conversation but as the observer I was able to bring a more detached kind of logic into play that tamped down the usual emotional reaction I would typically have. (This wasn't about stuffing emotions - it was like counteracting too much emotion with some logic)  When I was able to stop getting triggered I was better able to see her.  I realized in one of those first interactions that she wanted me to do something but she wasn't asking me... .I was getting some FOG... .she was trying to get me to do something with pressure.  Normally that pressure would become to uncomfortable for me and I would do "what she expected me to do".  In that situation I decided to not do what she wanted until she asked and she was the one that got uncomfortable, apparently it was hard for her to ask for help.  That was an interesting insight for me.

It was the beginning of seeing her as a flawed human, not the all knowing, always right, perfect mother that I thought she was and how she actually projects herself.  I was also beginning to see that I wasn't the dumb, less than perfect daughter she convinced me I was.

I hope you'll experiment with mindfulness it can be very revealing and lead to helpful insights.

Take Care,
Panda39

[Harri]

Hi!  Panda is right that observing like she describes and using mindfulness is different from stuffing your feelings. 

Are you familiar with Triggering, Mindfulness and Wise Mind?  Wisemind is the combination of the logical and emotional parts of us and our experiences.  It actually is the goal to be able to combine the two. 

It was the beginning of seeing her as a flawed human, not the all knowing, always right, perfect mother that I thought she was and how she actually projects herself.  I was also beginning to see that I wasn't the dumb, less than perfect daughter she convinced me I was.

Oh yes!  Seeing my mother for the small, hurt damaged person she was rather than the all powerful mother that I was, on an unconscious level, terrified of, was liberating.  It was also devastating to realize how I gave up all of my power to someone who was so damaged but it was a necessary part of healing.  It will come.  That time when you are no longer fearful and terrified to say no to her = freedom!  Not to be mean or uncaring but to finally see her for who she is, defenses and all. 

If you have an interaction with your mom and are upset or feel sad, it is not a failure.  It is a natural response.  If things get a little heated, it is kay.  Not a failure, you just need to work a bit on Wise Mind and mindfulness... but even then I would not call it a failure.  We are human and that means having emotions.  Having emotions rather than stuffing them is not the same as haaving an emotional conversation with her either.  You are right, she can't be trusted with your emotions.  That too is part of mindfulness and radical acceptance. 

Do I have links?  Do I have links you ask?  Oh yes I do!  hahahaha  Have you read about Don't jade, S.E.T., validation, and other communication strategies?  Are you familiar with Projection and radical acceptance?  Tell me which ones you want to read about and i will get the links to you.   

You are doing very well.   

[Recycle]

Thank you, Panda and Harri! I feel so supported and in good care here, as I am learning to better nurture my emotions.

I have read through both your posts twice, now. I'm still taking it all in. 

I'm at such a turning point in my relationship with my Mom. I loved the idea of being "in" or "outside" (as an observer). I shall try that in a talk with my Mom if I ever get another chance. I really do not know what will happen this time around. She may decide never to talk to me again. She seems to be very unstable and sick. And when we are speaking, she questions me about almost any answer I give or facial expression I have. I feel scared that things are broken beyond repair. I don't feel at fault. Nobody is at fault. It is all just very sad. I want to run far, far away from her.

This is what I am feeling right now. And I am much closer to going NC as I have ever been. I'm not sure I can start a good recovery without it.

Thanks again to you both! I feel so loved.

[Recycle]

Good morning, 

I have revisited this entire thread after sleeping on it.

The sum of how I feel right now: Angry with my Mom, and hopeless when I think about continuing to try and have a relationship with her. 

I thought a lot about wisemind, and want to give myself credit because it feels like I have achieved it to some extent when I'm communicating with my Mom. Observing from the outside, too. Maybe I haven't stuffed my emotions as much as I thought.

I think I see something: What I've expected from my Mom within our interactions is to recognize and understand the emotions. The emotions I have about her not treating her physical and mental ailments. The emotions I have about her never making decisions that she said she desperately needs to make (e.g. moving to a one-level place because the shower is downstairs and she needs both knees replaced). The emotions I have that she hasn't been an active part of my life for over 15 years due to her inability to make decisions and seek treatment. I cannot expect her to ever recognize and understand how these things feel to me. And, I can't tell her how I feel (even using SET) because she turns into a witch and throws up walls. She punishes me. I feel like I have no "moves" in this game to even practice the great strategies that everyone here supporting me has suggested.

I also want to provide a little more context about her: She is isolated, in that she doesn't have friends, rarely talks to family, doesn't drive, and cancels almost all engagements with the outside world. She is married, but her husband is codependent and spends most of his time in the basement eating/playing video games. He doesn't have friends, either, and rarely interacts with family.

[Panda39]

Hi Recycle,

One of the most important concepts I've learned in coming here is the only people we truly control in this world is ourselves.  I arrived here so angry at my SO's uBPDxw that it was beginning to become toxic.  Why was I so angry, because I wanted to control and fix everything his ex was doing to him and to their daughters. What I learned was I can not make anyone do something they don't want to do.

I see much the same with you and your mom, only instead of anger like I had, I see frustration, guilt, and love in your situation.  Your mom's decisions are her own, and you are not responsible for them.  She is an adult. She is living the consequences of her own actions, her own choices. 

I know you wish she would do things differently, but you can't make anyone do something they don't want to do.

I want to share a link on "Radical Acceptance" and see what you think... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

As hard as it is, do you think you can let go of trying to fix your mom's life, trying control her emotions/happiness, expecting things that she has demonstrated she isn't capable of giving?  Put that responsibility where it belongs... .on her?  Focus on you and your own life... .the things you can control?

If you let go of trying to control and expectations around your mom, what would your relationship with your mom look like?

Could you invite her to lunch (because your value is to have connection with her) but with the expectation that she will cancel (because that's what she does) and know that you did what you wanted to do/thought was the right thing to do and your mom just does what she does.  Can you do that and recognize that you did the right thing for you and she did the right thing for her, without getting triggered by the interaction?

Just some food for thought.

Panda39

[Recycle]

Panda,

Thanks so much for the Radical Acceptance link. I've heard of RA before, but this is the perfect time for me to embrace it (when is it ever not a good time ).
The part of the post that struck me the most was:
"The prime dissatisfaction for many of us is the sense that we are unworthy according to Tara Brach, PhD. We aren’t enough, we don’t do enough, we don’t have enough.  We live in a trance of unworthiness. It’s a trance because the pain of KNOWING the unworthy feelings is rather deep. So we keep really busy, so there’s no time to sit and know. We embark on self-improvement projects to try to be good enough. We avoid risks to avoid more pain. We withdraw from knowing our current experience.  We become self-critics. And like most self critics, we also become critical of others.  The trance of unworthiness involves being in close touch with a self that’s fearful, wanting, feeling alone and separate.  The self caught in desire, aversion , delusion. It means losing sight of the self who’s connected, whole, in the ‘fullness of being.’ When we learn to face and feel the fear and shame we habitually avoid, we begin to awaken from the trance."

Also, you said,
"As hard as it is, do you think you can let go of trying to fix your mom's life, trying control her emotions/happiness, expecting things that she has demonstrated she isn't capable of giving?  Put that responsibility where it belongs... .on her?  Focus on you and your own life... .the things you can control?

If you let go of trying to control and expectations around your mom, what would your relationship with your mom look like?

Could you invite her to lunch (because your value is to have a connection with her) but with the expectation that she will cancel (because that's what she does) and know that you did what you wanted to do/thought was the right thing to do and your mom just does what she does.  Can you do that and recognize that you did the right thing for you and she did the right thing for her, without getting triggered by the interaction?"

I let go of trying to fix, control, and expect things from my Mom long ago. For years now, I have been inviting her to things with the expectation (and fulfillment) of canceling. I have learned to have a wise mind about that. What I have been trying to say (not very well) is that I don't think to be in recovery and having a wise mind while in a relationship with my mom are possible at the same time. I know that seems counter-intuitive; to have a wise mind with my Mom should afford me the ability to focus on my recovery. But, having to shift to wise mind with my Mom is triggering and sets my recovery back, or prevents it from moving forward. It is about the energy I need to spend on having that wise mind with her. I don't feel like there is any left for myself. Does this make any sense?

 

[Panda39]

I let go of trying to fix, control, and expect things from my Mom long ago. For years now, I have been inviting her to things with the expectation (and fulfillment) of canceling. I have learned to have a wise mind about that. What I have been trying to say (not very well) is that I don't think to be in recovery and having a wise mind while in a relationship with my mom are possible at the same time. I know that seems counter-intuitive; to have a wise mind with my Mom should afford me the ability to focus on my recovery. But, having to shift to wise mind with my Mom is triggering and sets my recovery back, or prevents it from moving forward. It is about the energy I need to spend on having that wise mind with her. I don't feel like there is any left for myself. Does this make any sense?

 
It totally makes sense, let's leave her out of it for a while and focus on you!   

Panda39

[Harri]

What I have been trying to say (not very well) is that I don't think to be in recovery and having a wise mind while in a relationship with my mom are possible at the same time. I know that seems counter-intuitive; to have a wise mind with my Mom should afford me the ability to focus on my recovery. But, having to shift to wise mind with my Mom is triggering and sets my recovery back, or prevents it from moving forward. It is about the energy I need to spend on having that wise mind with her. I don't feel like there is any left for myself. Does this make any sense?

Yes, it is exhausting.  You get to decide how much contact you want with your mother.  I never went NC but I also had very limited contact and I was not concerned with upsetting her or making her angry so my perspective is different.  I don't mean I tried to make her angry or hurt her but I was no longer willing to sacrifice myself for her.  There is an article here titled The Do's and Don'ts in a BPD Relationship.  It is written mainly for those trying to stay in a romantic relationship with people with BPD but the info crosses to all sorts of relationships.  Including adult child/parent relationships.  I am not saying you have to stay in contact, but (!) I think having a good idea of what it takes to have a relationship and keep yourself healthy is a good way to gauge what you need to work on.  And by that I don't mean work on so you can have a relationship with your mom (again that is your choice) but perhaps develop skills that will help you in any relationship.  If it resonates great, if not, forget it!   

Again, you get to make choices here.  Establishing boundaries is going to be vital even if you do go no contact.  We can help you with that too.  What to expect, what not to do, etc. 

For now, if she went silent on you, let it be.  My mother did that to me all the time until I finally refused to play.  When she decided, about a year and a half later, to try to talk with me, I told her if she ever did that to me it would be over.  I am not recommending you make that threat though as threats are not a good way to do this, but I'm saying I had decided that i was done with the games and unconscious manipulations, and emotional blackmail.  No.  Just No.  Use this time as an opportunity to think more about what you want and to work on your healing.  You get to call the shots.

 <--- this is you calling the shots! 

[Libra]

Hello Recycle,

I can very much relate to many things you have been saying in this thread. I just wanted to reach out and tell you that you are not alone in these struggles.

I've caught myself regulating my own emotions with my "quality" of contact with her (which is always determined or colored by her disordered thinking, both directly and indirectly).

I think I understand what you are trying to say here. It is not easy to put into words. I have recently described this as avoidance in another thread: keeping LC, not having ‘real’ conversations with my mother, and not expecting any validation or empathy from her side.
I have realized that this is still not a healthy situation for ME. It may enable me to keep a connection with my mother, but it is still focused on accommodating HER and her feelings alone. I have not been able to set any real boundaries with her, because I still fear her reaction. I’m still trying to avoid anything that might shake up the fragile equilibrium we have at the moment.

Does this make any sense? If I have misunderstood, please forgive me.

Oh yes!  Seeing my mother for the small, hurt damaged person she was rather than the all powerful mother that I was, on an unconscious level, terrified of, was liberating

Harri, as much as this is indeed liberating, it also still triggers feelings of guilt in me: why should I NOT help someone that is small, hurt and damaged? Isn’t that what human beings are meant to do? Even without expecting anything in return? I realize that you should not help/give if that giving is detrimental to your own well-being, but that feeling of guilt is still there. I guess I am still struggling to get rid of those pre-programmed habits... .

I cannot expect her to ever recognize and understand how these things feel to me. And, I can't tell her how I feel (even using SET) because she turns into a witch and throws up walls. She punishes me. I feel like I have no "moves" in this game to even practice the great strategies that everyone here supporting me has suggested.

I am sorry your mother is so embroiled in her own problems that she cannot validate or even see you. I know how that feels. I have slowly learnt to accept this reality. It still hurts though. 

But, having to shift to wise mind with my Mom is triggering and sets my recovery back, or prevents it from moving forward. It is about the energy I need to spend on having that wise mind with her. I don't feel like there is any left for myself. Does this make any sense?

Yes. It makes total sense!
It takes all my energy to stay detached (observing from the outside) when interacting with my mother. Even more so when my children are added into the mix, because I cannot be purely detached with them.
It is only afterwards that I can process the interaction, and I start to SEE what was really going on…and how I still get trampled in our conversations. This is very frustrating. It feels like  a setback. But if I keep at it -  maybe  - the moment of insight will start to coincide with the conversation itself, and I will be able to handle these interactions better?

Keep moving forward Recycle! 

Libra.

[Harri]

Libra wrote: 

I have not been able to set any real boundaries with her, because I still fear her reaction. I’m still trying to avoid anything that might shake up the fragile equilibrium we have at the moment.

This is an example of what i mean when i say  "Seeing my mother for the small, hurt damaged person she was rather than the all powerful mother that I was, on an unconscious level, terrified of, was liberating"  Seeing her as her small wounded inner child took away my fear that kept me an emotional prisoner.  She lost her power over me.  She could yell, scream, go silent... .it was no longer coming from this bigger than life Mother, it was coming from a person who no longer had power over me.  I felt quite devastated by this realization when I first had it, thinking about all the power I gave her, how many things I did out of fear and out of intimidation, thinking about all the losses and what I gave up.  It took some time but I came out of it feeling stronger and it was the beginning of freedom for me.

Libra said: 

it also still triggers feelings of guilt in me: why should I NOT help someone that is small, hurt and damaged? Isn’t that what human beings are meant to do? Even without expecting anything in return? I realize that you should not help/give if that giving is detrimental to your own well-being, but that feeling of guilt is still there. I guess I am still struggling to get rid of those pre-programmed habits... .

The realization I talked about above unfortunately did nothing for my guilt.  That is a whole different ball of muck and for me it had to do with boundaries, differentiation of self and taking my power back <cue inspirational music>. 

It takes all my energy to stay detached (observing from the outside) when interacting with my mother. Even more so when my children are added into the mix, because I cannot be purely detached with them... .It is only afterwards that I can process the interaction, and I start to SEE what was really going on…and how I still get trampled in our conversations. This is very frustrating. It feels like  a setback. But if I keep at it -  maybe  - the moment of insight will start to coincide with the conversation itself, and I will be able to handle these interactions better?

You are right that this will get better over time.  You will begin to see more in the moment.  Be patient.  This is not easy stuff to learn.  Not to be a downer but (!) even after you get it and are good with all these skills and are detached there will still be times when you feel drained, hurt, grief for the loss of a healthy relationship.  all of that is just a part of what we have to deal with.  But you can feel better and stronger.

How are you doing Recycle?  Does any of the above help you?

[Learning2Thrive]

Hey Recycle, how are you doing?

I was out of the loop for a while dealing with some personal issues, but I’ve been following your thread here.

It’s been a few days and I hope all is well with you. We’re here to listen and support you. I hope you’ll pop in soon and let us know how things are going for you.

Sending you positive energy and good thoughts. 

L2T