The End Of My Marriage

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I will take some time but I know now that I cannot go on in my marriage the way it has been. I’ll need some distance from the AA woman to clear my head but she has shown me what is missing from my marriage. I think her self preservation is such that she will keep away from me but if she contacts me again I don’t know what to do. Somebody who can jettison such a close r/s in an instant is not somebody to be trusted in my book. I was trying to be fair to my wife and not just kick the r/s into touch and go and shack up with somebody else. At least my decision making process hasn’t been completely destroyed by limerence. I still looked after myself a little but I do feel run ragged. It may actually turn out to be a relief to get away from the daily push/pull and haranguing I’ve been getting around leaving my marriage. It’s been a crazy time. I will be sad to not see her but it is probably for the best regarding my stress levels and the very real possibility of getting caught.

[RomanticFool]

I will take some time but I know now that I cannot go on in my marriage the way it has been. I’ll need some distance from the AA woman to clear my head but she has shown me what is missing from my marriage. I think her self preservation is such that she will keep away from me but if she contacts me again I don’t know what to do. Somebody who can jettison such a close r/s in an instant is not somebody to be trusted in my book. I was trying to be fair to my wife and not just kick the r/s into touch and go and shack up with somebody else. At least my decision making process hasn’t been completely destroyed by limerence. I still looked after myself a little but I do feel run ragged. It may actually turn out to be a relief to get away from the daily push/pull and haranguing I’ve been getting around leaving my marriage. It’s been a crazy time. I will be sad to not see her but it is probably for the best regarding my stress levels and the very real possibility of getting caught.

[zachira]

Everybody deserves happiness, even you who describes yourself as a serial cheater. We all make mistakes and can learn from them if we are willing to do the hard work of doing so. It is well known that people who get divorced and don't take a serious look at why their past marriage failed will most likely attract a similar partner to the one he/she just divorced. As most people are charming when you first date him/her, and can be like this for months or years to come, it is important that you really know yourself well in order to attract the right kind of partner. It basically comes down to that you have to be the best person you can be to attract a healthy partner, and when leaving a seriously unhappy marriage, therapy can be a great help in getting you on the right track. Therapy can also be extremely valuable in repairing a marriage or negotiating a better ending to the marriage.

[Skip]

The worst thing is I was starting to really believe we could have a future together [with AA women] but I have been grief-stricken at the idea of losing my wife. I wasn’t sure if it meant anything outside of the fact that I love her enough to be married but not enough to try to rekindle our intimacy.  

RF, your new love interest is rejecting the situation, not you. If your wife knew the truth, she would reject the situation too. 99% of women you meet will reject the situation.

I think you may be underestimating how little success is possible with your current relationship model. Everyone gets hurt.

The way I see it now I have three not very palatable options.

1. I sit in the marriage and try to figure a way through knowing that yet another potential partner has decided that I am not worth waiting for and has given up on any possible relationship with me, whether I leave my marriage or not.

2. I continue with my desire to leave my marriage and take a leap into the unknown at the age of 55 and most likely meet more women who go nuts over me for six weeks and then abruptly withdraw. This seems to be consistent with what I usually attract.  

3. Throw in the towel on everything. The last option feels the most attractive right now.

1. Trying to find someone who will take to you while you are married and provide a painless bridge through an eventual divorce and then be a life partner may be an unrealistic expectation.

And no matter how hard you try to package it, your wife will be hurt more if you are in a relationship when you leave her than if you go to counseling, talk through why the relationship is irreconcilable and take the marriage to the most logical conclusion. Two months.

2. Being single is a shark tank, RF. You will need to kiss a lot of frogs to find your princess. You will need to toughen up for that. That is life. Most new relationships run their course in under 90 days (many just 2-3 dates). That's how being single is. Trial, attraction, rejection, error, trial, attraction, rejection, error, trial, attraction,  SUCCESS.

Does that make sense?

Right now you are trying to bake a cake with sand and its not working
... .and it hurts,
... ... ..everyone.

[RomanticFool]

The AA woman knows I am in the middle of leaving my marriage. I have been through hell and cried on her shoulder. She knows, without question, that I am serious about a r/s with her and she told me that she is serious about a r/s with me. What is going on is a disordered push/pull situation where she decides in a given moment to sabotage the r/s. We are booked in to a hotel this week where she is due to accompany me to a work situation. I have met her daughter and yesterday she introduced me to a close friend of hers. Nobody in their right mind would end a r/s on a day like that because of a phone call, especially when she knows what my intentions are and saw me going through the emotional wringer when I told my wife our marriage was over. In fact AA woman told me how proud of me she was for my courage. This is a pernicious, selfish, wreckless and fear based course of action on her part because I wasn’t doing things on her timescale. Quite frankly, if that is the type of woman she is, then I am not interested in having a r/s with her.

I have been a bloody fool chasing a series of unreliable and in my opinion, disorderd women who have proven to me that nobody really cares about my well being. They are just looking out for themselves. Fair enough. It just means that words of love are just that... .words.

I am back in the same situation as before. My long suffering wife has no clue as to the extent of my treachery and for that I feel guilty, alone and unworthy of her love. I do not want to live a life like this anymore. At the moment I would just like to be alone. The only woman I have ever met with real integrity is the woman I’ve been trying to get away from ie my wife. I’m tired of everything. Of being let down and letting a woman down who deserves more than I’ve given her. I am at my wits end here.

[Radcliff]

Your wife has integrity.  You trust her.  You would be heartbroken to lose her.

Forgive me, I'm new to your story.  I know even with those facts, there is plenty of room for unhappiness in a marriage.  But can I ask you to recap the issues with your marriage?

RC

[RomanticFool]

Radcliff,

My story is a long sorry tale of marital infidelity, first a long distance r/s with a married woman who I met when I was single and we reconnected six months into my sexless marriage. My wife and I had not slept together for 2 years prior to the wedding. I eventually extricated myself away from the married woman and six weeks ago (after 9 sexless years of marriage) I began another affair with a woman from AA who lives 10 minutes away from me. This one feels more real and more potentially devastating as she has been very responsive towards me. There have been signs that the current woman has some traits such as push/pull and tells me that her mother is a Narcissist. She is very intelligent and I told her what I have discovered about personality disorders and we were both working together to arrest our abandonment fears. However, the first sign of stress and she has bolted. I can’t blame her in one sense because she has been through a very messy divorce herself and does not want to get involved with a married man. However, she knows that I have been taking action to leave my marriage and so this withdrawal feels like a kick in the teeth. I feel pretty desperate today.

[juju2]

Rf,

You talk about going to meetings.    hope you have a sponsor, just get it all out.  When i am in my head, it doesnt go well.

you are in many directions, i  my program we pause.

And if we are starting work on the twelve steps, we make no life changing moves, for one year, that is the suggestion... .

Courage and strength and wisdom are wished for you,
j

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear RF-

we, all of us here, have been broken in some way.  I believe long before we met our BPD partners... .  It often takes us a while to realize that; but we are reaching out for help here, even those of us (me) who are often too weak to post ourselves.  We read and let these wise words sink in.  Late at night.  There are very smart, good people on here.

I just have to ask... .you don’t have to answer... .why the resistance to therapy?

I am in therapy now.  Took me months to find a therapist.  It’s hard, but good.  I’m trying out a second one today.  I’m soon-to-be 61; living in near complete self-imposed isolation now, but there’s a glimmer of hope. 

It’s ok to look at yourself with genuine understanding and compassion, RF.  That’s something therapy helps you do.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Wicker Man]

My long suffering wife has no clue as to the extent of my treachery and for that I feel guilty, alone and unworthy of her love.

Guilt can be a funny thing.  Be careful you are not accepting the guilt as a reason to not grow stronger and better in the future.  Yes -you have done some things which you may find morally questionable.  Perhaps you have done things you wish you hadn't --but the Sun came up this morning and it is a new day.  How will you spend today?  Will you use it to better yourself or continue acting in a way which ultimately brought you unhappiness?

You have had affairs -that is the past.  You cannot change the past, but you can choose to learn and grow from your previous actions or let them continue to define you.  I had an affair -but I do not define myself as a cheater.  It is something I did in the past and will not do again in the future.  I am choosing to  transcend 'cheater' and becoming a husband again.

You are in AA -this shows a strength of character.  You saw drinking was hurting you and have taken steps to better yourself.  This is a heroic effort and something you should be proud of.  Why not do the same thing for your emotional health?  You marriage is not the way you wish it to be -try to fix it.  You are attracted to women who seem to present BPD traits -figure out why.

As I have mentioned I had an affair.  I see it now as being of the utmost importance to figure out why I did it.  What was my psychological need behind it?  In my case When I first spoke to my affair partner I knew I was walking out onto thin ice -coming to know her would likely end my marriage and in the moment I simply did not care.  This speaks of, in my opinion, a deeply rooted subconscious motivation.  I believe it may have been my wanting to escape my old life -run away and join the circus. 

I am currently working to figure out how my marriage had effected me and how to now make it better.  My wife and I have decided to reconcile -it was actually at her behest. She wrote me an email which more or less said we have 25 years of history together and it is worth trying to preserve. 

Fixing our marriage after such a rift is extremely heavy lifting.  My wife has OC(PD) and is now beginning to understand for her own happiness and the welfare or our marriage she needs to manage it.  She has my full support in this venture.  I had been asking her to get help with her disorder since she was 25 years old.

I have to learn how to overcome the inertia of all the bad habits which had been our marriage.  I have to regain her trust.  I have to learn to see in color again and realize my affair was a childish attempt to run away from a damaged marriage, instead of facing it -doing the hard work to fix it.  I will be honest -we are going to Italy for two weeks and I am scared to death -will this vacation be like the rest or will to transcend into something different.  I need to let 25 years of resentment and bad inertia go and have an open mind.

Affairs shatter the very foundation the betrayed stands upon -it throws into question all of their beliefs and threatens their security and their self image. My wife has been forced to see me in a completely different light -I am now someone who hurt her more than she ever thought possible.  It will take us years to fully put this behind us -but it has forced us to review our marriage and build it into something good --an affair necessitates a new beginning and where there is a new beginning there is hope.

... .letting a woman [wife] down who deserves more than I’ve given her... .

From your statement above I am going to presume you, at least on some level, love your wife.

Like you I still love my wife, but in my case I didn't feel loved.  My wife adores me -she went as far as to say I am her perfect man.  She has some issues she is now beginning to deal with and in the past these issues made her in capable of showing love or affection.  She felt it, but could not express it.

Life is hard, love is hard -this all takes work.  Ironically... .if she had told me I was her perfect man before my affair, given me some level of validation, perhaps I would not have spent the last 25 years hiding in my work.  Sublimating my sexual desire into the creative aspects of my career.  Building up 25 years of repression which culminated in an affair.  What I would have given to know my love at first sight with my affair partner was more likely a figment of my deeply seated discontent more than the reality of my ill-conceived affair. I wish I had had the ability to see my state and seek therapy before causing so much pain to so many people. 

My affair partner was gutted when I left -she went non-responsive into the hospital for over a week.  My wife went into deep depression.  All quite badly done on my part.  Personally, I very nearly destroyed life as I knew it.  The worlds of more or less 8 people were thrown into absolute turmoil.

The choice to go back to my marriage has me quite scared.  If we do not do the hard work and fall back into old patterns it will cause me a lot of pain -but it is the road we have chosen.  My wife and I are committed to doing our best -I hope it is the right choice for us and only time will tell.  There are no guarantees in life, but I think I am on the right track.

Gemsforeyes asked you

'I just have to ask... .you don’t have to answer... .why the resistance to therapy?'

  Would you mind answering this question directly?  I have mentioned therapy ad nauseam and you have never responded.  Knowing your thoughts on this would help me greatly in being able to tailor my posts in your thread. 

I mentioned a few books previously -do you have any interest in reading? 

You seem depressed -have you considered antidepressants to get you through the short term trauma of your current situation?

My experience is, of course, anecdotal -but I see quite a few similarities in our life experiences.  We are more or less the same age and have midlife issues on our minds.  We both found ourselves in relationships with wives we love and respect but our relationships lacked intimacy.  We both had affairs with someone exhibiting BPD traits.  We both would like to change the direction of our lives for the better.

Perhaps we can try to swing the thrust of your 'The End Of My Marriage' thread to a meta level and discuss the motivations behind your actions rather than triage your affair.  We could fill pages talking about our affair partners (and I have) -but I do not believe this is the best way to spend out time and energy now.

Members here, myself amongst them, have suggested 'clearing the decks' of other women.  Work on yourself and not to make any rash decisions.  As Skip pointed out your list of '3 possible courses of action' is not healthy nor is it, in my opinion, complete. 

Over the last decade you have dug an emotional hole for yourself and I fear you are not, at this point, able to see more sustainable and healthy courses of action for your future.  There are, in actuality, many possible futures for you -it is a matter of clearing your mind to see them.

You have a lot of people here on BPD Family who have your best interest at heart -I would suggest finding a way to swing this conversation away from specifics and toward one of healing.


Wicker Man

[Harley Quinn]

I am back in the same situation as before. My long suffering wife has no clue as to the extent of my treachery and for that I feel guilty, alone and unworthy of her love. I do not want to live a life like this anymore. At the moment I would just like to be alone. The only woman I have ever met with real integrity is the woman I’ve been trying to get away from ie my wife. I’m tired of everything. Of being let down and letting a woman down who deserves more than I’ve given her. I am at my wits end here.

RF, how are you?  It's been a while and you're in my thoughts.  I wonder where your thoughts are taking you and I'm hopeful that the compassionate words of Gems and WickerMan have given you a nudge towards taking the positive steps that I would want for you.  Your future happiness is something you can be active in achieving.  My own therapy is going well and as both our friends above have said, it is hard, yet so worthwhile.  Let's face it, we can make things hard for ourselves anyway and from the sounds of it you're beating yourself up a lot.  You get to choose your actions from here with the knowledge you have.  Reach out my friend.  There is help in abundance if you seek it.

I have been a bloody fool chasing a series of unreliable and in my opinion, disorderd women who have proven to me that nobody really cares about my well being. They are just looking out for themselves. Fair enough.

Fair enough indeed.  RF, it's possible that the women in your life have a valuable lesson for you, hence the series of these relationships you've encountered.  I too have had a string of difficult relationships.  The way I see it, we experience situations as a means to learn.  Until we take the learning that is intended from our life experiences, we will continue to keep being taught the lesson.  And round and round it goes.  It's our job to pay attention and gather the relevant information.  To learn and grow as individuals by applying that learning to ourselves.  Only then have we completed that lesson and are we able to move forwards.  Sure, these lessons can be hard to swallow, uncomfortable to accept and painful to work through and that's what makes reaping the rewards all the more meaningful RF.     

So look at your statement about these women looking out for themselves.  Disordered or not, that is their right and responsibility.  Just as it is yours to look out for you.  How can you look out for yourself now?  What exactly was it that you were relying upon these partners for (the thing that they were unreliable at) and how can you provide that for yourself rather than hoping for someone else to provide it for you?  Perhaps addressing this will help you to make the right choices upon which to move forwards in your marriage, or outside of it. 

Love and light x   

[RomanticFool]

Hi Harley Quinn,

My life has been a potential powder keg over the last 6 weeks. The AA woman I got involved with has been doing push/pull virtually every day around leaving my wife. I tried very hard to make the conditions possible for us to have a relationship and told her that I am intending on leaving my marriage. The push/pull continued and we were triggering each other all over the place. Her with abandonment fears and me with engulfment fears at her neediness and alarm at her changeability. The strangest thing of all is that she projects all of her behaviours on to me. She is always looking at my facial expressions and body language for evidence of my constancy. I have reassured her a thousand times over the last six weeks that I love her and want to try to have a real relationship and future with her. Then tonight I voiced to her how difficult a relationship with me would be as I am an artist with little money and she indicated that she wanted a solvent man. I talked honestly about the difficulties of walking away from my marriage but said I am willing to go through all of that to have a chance of a meaningful and lasting relationship with her. Not five minutes later she told me to stop ‘mauling her’ (I had my arm around her) and she completely turned on me, saying that it is her body and she doesn’t want me touching it. We made love this morning when she told me that she belongs to me. I know this is insane. I have known it for six weeks but I strung it out hoping it was real. Anyway, I left in a panic and now that relationship has imploded. Extraordinary the ground we have covered in six weeks and extraordinary the speed with which it all blew up. I actually think her triggers are more acute than my ex.

Even without this sideshow going on, I still feel I need to find the courage to leave my marriage. However, I had a dream that my wife died last week and it completely floored me. After this relationship with the AA woman, I have once again discovered intimacy, albeit with a love-bombing, needy and most likely disordered woman. My wife told me she is worried about me tonight. She said I seem depressed. We are due to go to Italy at the end of November and it is her birthday coming up. Part of me is relieved the affair with the AA woman has imploded as it was driving us both nuts. I want some peace and calm and perhaps talk to my wife once again about the relationship.

It all sounds completely insane but I still feel strong and weirdly clear in my thought process about what is going on. I tried to make the AA woman the reason for leaving my marriage but that was never going to work. The truth is, despite all of the lovely things about the last six weeks, she is far too messed up for me to have a relationship with even if I was out of my marriage. It is a real shame as we connected so well on so many different levels.

Who is still the last woman standing? My wife! It seems the universe doesn’t want me breaking up with her for some reason. In so many ways our relationship is good but the last six weeks have been another reminder of just what has been missing for 9 years. I feel even less like going back to the way things were. I’m not going to do a confessional with my wife but I do need to tell her that I am unhappy and either try to work it out, a preposterous notion after another intense relationship, or walk away, the thought of which caused me to break down in grief when I tried to do so a few weeks back. I am damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

RF

[Skip]

Who is still the last woman standing? My wife! It seems the universe doesn’t want me breaking up with her for some reason. In so many ways our relationship is good but the last six weeks have been another reminder of just what has been missing for 9 years. I feel even less like going back to the way things were. I’m not going to do a confessional with my wife but I do need to tell her that I am unhappy and either try to work it out, a preposterous notion after another intense relationship, or walk away, the thought of which caused me to break down in grief when I tried to do so a few weeks back. I am damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

This is hard to read, RF. You are in another affair and you really don't seem to care at all at how much you are betraying your partner. If anything, the sex with the latest women just makes you realize how inadequate your wife is.

Who is still the last woman standing? My wife! It seems the universe doesn’t want me breaking up with her for some reason. 

Are you thinking there is a God that thinks this is a good thing for your wife? for you?

You are looking for a new partner. As soon as you find one, you will dump your wife.

Why not just let her go.

You saw sadness in her this last time when she thought you had a crush on another women. That made you sad, but you went on to sleep with the other women anyway.

If you tell your wife what really has gone on, she is not going to want to hang around. You know that.

Isn't time to come clean with your life?  Don't you think you will feel better?

[RomanticFool]

It may be hard to read but it’s even harder to live. I tried to let my wife go 5 weeks ago but the grief of change was too overwhelming for us both. I don’t really want to lose her from my life but I can’t go on as we are. 9 years without a sex life is ridiculous for us both.

I was never really looking for a new relationship but I wanted intimacy. As we all know, you can’t have real intimacy without commitment and so I find myself in a situation where I must lose somebody I feel familiar with and love in my own way in favour of the unknown. You may think it’s cowardice but it’s no less a terrible dilemma for my wife to suddenly be on her own at 48. I had a dream that she died last week. The grief was intolerable. My father has recently been diagnosed with incurable cancer and the two griefs collided in my dreams. I feel wretched at how I’m behaving but I feel more wretched at the prospect of my marriage breaking up. Maybe unpalatable to read but I don’t live to please others. You may think my marriage is a car crash and that the kindest thing I can do is let her go, but I don’t think she wants to go.

[Skip]

At 48 she will hurt and she will bounce back. It's better than 52 or 62 or 72. If you like her, set her free.

She is holding on to a mirage, RF. If she knew what was has transpired she would be long gone. If she knew you had the most recent affair she would be gone. If she knew you were going to keep shopping until you find the right girl and drop her after 6 weeks, she would be gone.

You are not doing her a favor by continuing your search for love while she is blissfully living her life, keeping house, cooking and livingn on a time-bomb that could go off at anytime - Christmas, after a close relative dies, etc.

What it she becomes ill, or disabled? Are you going to stand by her or will you continue to shop and when you find the right person, leave her behind.

Life can change in a minute. Give her a chance to build a secure life with someone else.

Doesn't that make sense?  Yes, it will be traumatic but not anything like what could happen.

Imagine you find a honey in November that wants you to move in by the first of the year and your wife comes home and says she has breast cancer. You will have to choose... .

How will you choose?

[RomanticFool]

In that circumstance I would choose my wife. No question.

[Skip]

Do you think it is fair to her where this is going, RF.  I don't want to push too hard here, but this is a really abusive situation. Do you not see it that way?

[RomanticFool]

I think it is unfair to her, yes. Abuse? I don’t know. My wife and I haven’t had sex for 9 years. What am I supposed to do with my sexuality? There are huge financial implications for her if we split up. Less so for me. I don’t know what to do for the best. I’m frightened on a daily basis. The AA woman is in my opinion slightly disordered, as must I be to even be in this situation. I feel like living on my own for the next year to recover. I’m damned if I do, damned if I don’t. Whatever happens now is going to be ugly, traumatic and final. My over riding feeling at the moment is fear.

[Skip]

I think it is unfair to her, yes. Abuse? I don’t know.

To you, its normal... .like watching the hands on a clock... .hardly any movement... .to an outsider looking in (e.g., family, employer, courts, counselors, etc,) its a horrific situation. You're numb to it as it's been going on for so long.

There is no possible end (good end) in sight. You know that.

My wife and I haven’t had sex for 9 years. What am I supposed to do with my sexuality?

Radically accept that you are incompatible with her - you are two very different people. She sounds lovely and loyal and you two have very different priorities in life. You want a steamy erotic romance. Sex in the relationship is not as easy for her for reasons both of you have contributed to. Nine years is a long time.

The AA woman is in my opinion slightly disordered, as must I be to even be in this situation.

Read your threads here. I have one interesting observation - there is no thread about your wife that you don't interject or detour with a comment about another woman.

You wife is never the priority women in your life.

I feel like living on my own for the next year to recover.

You're frustrated with the girl from AA, but that will pass and you will look for finding that fulfilment you seek. You will probably still engage her. There will be others.

Being single might be the best thing. You can actively date.

I’m damned if I do, damned if I don’t. Whatever happens now is going to be ugly, traumatic and final. My over riding feeling at the moment is fear.

You are right. The next step is hard. But you still have a chance to bring this to an amicable end. There are a lot of scenarios where this goes really bad. You can avoid that.

It's a really hard place to be.  Its a hard thing for anyone to dissolve a marriage.

If you are going to stay, you need to tell her so that staying is a choice she can make.

[Harley Quinn]

I don’t know what to do for the best. I’m frightened on a daily basis.

My over riding feeling at the moment is fear.

What are you afraid of? 

The AA woman is in my opinion slightly disordered, as must I be to even be in this situation. I feel like living on my own for the next year to recover. I’m damned if I do, damned if I don’t.

Taking some time to yourself sounds like a very sensible choice to make.  As Skip says, you can date if you choose without hurting anyone. 

If you are concerned about your own mental health, rather than guess, maybe you'll find relief in testing that theory.  Expanding your support network is never going to be a bad thing and doors open when we ask these questions.  The majority of us are getting help from professionals so it's something to seriously think about.     

Can you explain more about the ways in which you are damned if you do, damned if you don't, to help my understanding?  With regards to continuing to cheat on your wife or releasing her from the marriage.  (Finances aside, as you can make your own choices there regards how you behave during a divorce and see fit to support her.) 

Whatever happens now is going to be ugly, traumatic and final.

Does it really have to be ugly and traumatic?  As with everything in life, you have a choice, RF.   

Love and light x