Increased Stalking by BPD mom

[Klera]

Hi,

Tonight my husband picked up his son14 from music lessons and his ex wife (pwBPD) appeared somewhere on route in her car  and kind of followed them home back to her house to pick up my SD15 to come over to our place for the weekend.   Within a few minutes SS got a call on his phone - it was his mom.   He answered  where he was ("I'm in the car right now").     My H said son seemed irritated or annoyed at this especially when he asked him who it was.      Not only that, my husband said when he arrived at the ex's house,  she pulled up behind him and she got out of her car and then greeted a young man (she's in her late 40's and this young man was in his 20's) who seemed to be waiting for her across the street, probably at a bus stop.    She stopped traffic while he crossed the road to her side.  I'm thinking it might be someone interested in renting her basement suite as she often rents to students or people around his age.  Trust me, it's not what you're thinking (boy toy).   Since she and the kids moved in to the rental house 3 years ago, she's had numerous tenants coming and going.  I don't think from the sounds of it that anyone stable (long term) has lived downstairs (she sublets in the house she's renting).  This is such weird behaviour, even for her.    My husband emailed her 2 weeks ago and told her he would pick up son directly from his after school lesson and then from there, pick up daughter which would push it later than the usual arranged time.   She didn't respond at all to the email.   This is twice that she has been caught spying or what it's now turning out to be stalking him when he's with the kids.  This is the beginning of the new school year plus a new change in a pick up arrangement. This isn't the first time when he's arrived at her house to pick up the kids (the usual arranged pick up time and day) to have someone arrive to the house right on cue at pick up time, 5 pm on a Friday night,  as if she's arranging some sort of show.  She's very secretive when it comes to her life (she demands privacy but invades ours) so we never make a point of asking the kids any questions in case it gets back to her.      I don't know but it's just weird coincidence.  I don't know what's going on with her but it's getting worse and I don't like it one bit.  Any thoughts? 

[david]

My ex did that for a while (two or three months). I was considering installing a camera in my car but it stopped.
Ex bought our oldest an Iphone 4s for Christmas years ago. We went down the shore one week in the summer. We arrived and ex called him around a half hour after we arrived. He seemed upset after the call. I asked him if everything was okay and he said yes. An hour or so later he told me when his mom called she knew where we were so he figured there was attacking app on his phone. He was not pleased about it at all. He started turning the phone off completely when we went somewhere.

[Klera]

Sorry this is quite long but just needed to get stuff off my chest.  Just felt like writing... .

I think what concerns me is that we can see her behaviour lately becoming worse and increasing in strangeness.   It's been a period of 8-10 years since my DH's separation, divorce from her and my subsequent arrival into the family so we've encountered a s**t load of her BPD behaviour over the years.   But there's stuff she doing lately that I find disturbing even for her so I have to guess what's at the core of it.     

BTW: When my SS14 was entering her walkway after his dad swung by (prearranged time) to drop him off to pick up his stuff for the weekend and pick up my SD15,  this sudden 'visitor' person arrived that was waiting for their mom and she greeted on the street and then the two of them followed son inside while H was parked on the street and waiting (after she pulled up in her car behind him so she knew he was watching).     H didn't ask son whom it was when they came back to the car because he stays out of the ring of nonsense and I'm sure she'd enjoy hearing about my DH's enquiry.   I'm sure this is some planned show she put on.  She's done it before having various persons show up to the house precisely the same moment when H is due to pull up at her house for the kids, it's like clockwork exactly at the stroke of 5pm so it's so obvious... (eye roll) she relies on his punctuality.  Once it was a posed 'student' (for her supposed at home 'tutoring business' b.s.).  She claims she has this thriving career (teaching assistant) and doing tutoring, so with the 'student' showing up was no doubt to show H how successful she's doing instead of her living off of the child support like we know she does.  This facade is all a lie and she takes great pleasure in boasting how successful her 'business' is any chance she gets, whether it's to a third party, teacher or doctor, or to H himself when the odd time they were attending in person somewhere.    Meantime she had to sell her house - she went broke... .so... .I guess being caught out at that lie didn't seem to faze her much.   

I'm assuming that she will only get worse (an experienced friend suggested to me) with her intrusive, dominant, snooping, and now this new stalking, spying drive-by nonsense.  In the years ahead as the kids mature they will no doubt have to deal with her and establish their own boundaries as they strive for independence -  is this showing her increased fear of abandonment or is this just to show she is in control, I don't know.    As it was pointed out here, her stressors might be the loss of control of them and/or her becoming more redundant as a result.   H doesn't at all run things past her like he's done in the past, he will just make a decision and tell the kids directly bypassing her entirely since they are now old enough.  He can never have a discussion with her anyway for many reasons (as we all know).  This would involve contact and engagement (attention) which he's worked hard at NOT doing and ignoring her if she instigates unnecessary or non essential contact with him, enforcing a huge wall boundary with email contact.  If needed, she can, surprisingly, come across (acts) as sounding normal and genuine (even coherent) at times in some emails (of her choosing - it's easy for her to press the 'send' button when the narcissist is needy).    But everyone knows behind the scenes this isn't the case (normal).     She also sent a video recently of recording SS14 putting up some curtains for her using a power drill like it was some happy functioning normal place of hers (not)... .again putting on a show it seems.

With this recent (repetitive) behaviour of her stalking-by-car,  the fact that H sent ex an email well in advance to inform her of a change in pick up routine including transport from music lessons he provides, was her opportunity to discuss it all if she had any input, but then this deliberate silent treatment with no response to his email.  Then she's suddenly appearing in her car with this (to me is) obsessive paranoia.  H is beyond extremely reliable (he's had to be!) so there's no reason for her to question if son is picked up.  In fact, it would be her that would need following up on to make sure the kid was picked up on time or if at all.  Normally in the past couple of years when H either drops off or picks up at her house she's nowhere to be seen and we've gotten the message she leads this busy alternate life (social)  and neglects the kids altogether.    She claims she has a job, and has bragged to H how wonderful her career is going but I beg to differ.  She lives off of the child support.  Long story, we'll leave it there. 

Another weird behaviour of hers is that she will send over stuff she's found that might belong to H, via the kids. (Again 10 years since he left her plus a couple of moves since)  She will say that she's been going through files or old boxes  and suddenly stuff will show up with them with a post-it note (my interpretation is: "look at how nice and thoughtful I am, trying to score some brownie points)".    Last night, in a new sealed manilla envelope was 2 sheets of notes going back to H's college days, something anyone would just toss out as garbage, but this is how old it was.  Other times, it's been weird junk that I think he purposefully discarded and left with her when he moved out of the marital home. She did all his packing for him when they separated! yikes. She offered to and he didn't think to watch her!  Wow  She's deliberately thrown out tons of his stuff in garage sales post separation that he did not pack himself, things that were dear like an old tea set of his he said he couldn't find... .hhmm... .I wonder where that is?  But when she is suddenly feeling 'friendly' will do this odd 'gesture' which I also find disturbing.   She hasn't thought twice in the past to chuck out valuable or sentimental stuff that I'm sure she did back then,  but now will come across a piece paper with absolutely no significance and make a big deal of giving it to him (via the kids when they come over).  It's come in spurts so it's like she has this shrine of his stuff and releases the odd 'offering' as needed.    It hasn't happened in awhile but I think since she keeps getting caught lurking, then she will do this 'offering' behaviour to somehow smooth things over?  This hasn't happened in awhile which makes me put the pieces together.  Has anyone else had this type of thing?  Also I find that disordered behaviour happens in repetitive cycles, like:  "oh she's doing THAT again, is she?  something that we haven't seen her do in a few years or months will show up (weird stuff).  It's like you can set a pendulum or dial to it along with the full moon. 

My guess is that she doesn't have anyone or anything to distract her attention away from the kids at the moment (she can swing from obsessive to highly neglectful depending on her social life which comes first). She'll often turn her focus  on them again when H shows interest like the music lessons... .like some chewy toy.  If he's paying attention to them, she'll notice and try to out-do him or interfere, which ever suits her but when things are quiet, she is neglectful... .so annoying.   

Anyway, thanks for reading this.  It may not seem a big deal, but it's really bugging me at the moment so I thought I'd reach out.   Again, I know it's long and blabbering... sorry!

cheers,
Klera   



   

[soundofmusicgirl]

Another weird behaviour of hers is that she will send over stuff she's found that might belong to H, via the kids. (Again 10 years since he left her plus a couple of moves since)  She will say that she's been going through files or old boxes  and suddenly stuff will show up with them with a post-it note (my interpretation is: "look at how nice and thoughtful I am, trying to score some brownie points)".    Last night, in a new sealed manilla envelope was 2 sheets of notes going back to H's college days, something anyone would just toss out as garbage, but this is how old it was.  Other times, it's been weird junk that I think he purposefully discarded and left with her when he moved out of the marital home.
Klera 
   

I think the stalking really is to gain control. She is probably not getting much info out of your SD anymore so she is trying to gain control this way. It is sad and pathetic. Luckily we do not live anywhere in the vicinity of BPDxw but I remember the first summer that she accompanied the kids on their flights to us I was warning our neighbours of her and asked them to keep an eye out if they see something suscpious on our street. (we had several sheriffs living on our street with their cars parked on the curb )
As to the random stuff she sends you. I can relate. Every time the kids come to visit their bags are full of crap (old and useless clothes and not seasonally appropriate). But yet she found space in there to pack 10 spiral notebooks full of the kids scribbles and drawings from when they were 5 (at that point they were 9 yrs old). Or she packs gifts that we gave the boys that she only allows them to use when they are with us (colouring books, games, a fluffy blanket etc) (let's face it... we have the cooties and therefore nothing we ever give the boys is allowed anywhere in her house).  (wink... smile)

[Panda39]

To me you're getting a lot of attention seeking behaviors... .

Look at me! I'm doing a drive by!  I'm inserting myself into your day!

Look at me! I have friends or a new boyfriend! I'm soo happy look at what your missing!

Remember me! Here's some old correspondence! Doesn't this just take you back to when we first met!

Look I found something from 10 years ago and sent it over!  Think about me today!

 

I think the best thing you can do is just ignore it... .don't give her a reaction and if she doesn't get fed the attention she's looking for hopefully she will direct this stuff at someone else.

I had to chuckle at the "I have a job" thing, my SO's ex has done the same thing for 8 years... .

First it was her own business which of course wasn't a business... ."What Would Annie Do? LLC (Ann is her mother), then it was the millions she was going to make with stock deals (fraud), Then she was a logistics specialist (this is the woman who doesn't drive and can't even get her kids to the dentist!), then she worked for a Petroleum company in the Seychelles.  She just contacted my SO for her kids social security numbers to add them to her new health insurance plan, because we apparently have another imaginary job.  Since the alimony ran out along with child support (the kids live with dad) it appears that her job is living off her brother these days.

You're not going to ever figure out the why of anything she does... .she just does.  Radical Acceptance... .she's gonna do what she's gonna do.

Panda39

[livednlearned]

Look at me! I'm doing a drive by!  I'm inserting myself into your day!

I agree with Panda39

She's engaging in a game that you don't have to play, even tho you're a bystander.

But first, you have to recognize it's a game and you have some say in whether or not you will be part of it. That's the part you have control over and it's not a small thing.

She may be going through a dysregulation right now -- who knows why. It's not about you or H or the kids, it's about her and this is how she handles things she cannot tolerate.

It sounds like she is getting under your skin. What are some things you can do to not participate in the game she's playing?

[Klera]

  hi,  thanks so much for answering and reading my blabby gabby long rant.   I just sit down and start typing and the next thing you know... .

I feel like you're my sponsors:  'don't do anything Klera!'  You're my peeps and so glad I can reach out to you

She may be going through a dysregulation right now -- who knows why. It's not about you or H or the kids, it's about her and this is how she handles things she cannot tolerate.

It sounds like she is getting under your skin. What are some things you can do to not participate in the game she's playing?

Thanks LNL! you're wise. You betcha she's getting under my skin! I wish it wasn't so.    I believe something is not right in her life, god knows that's an understatement but there is some spark to this causing her inability to handle it.   My H says, she can be highly distorted thinker ie many moons ago in the beginning, in one of several mediations, accused my H and I of having an affair when I didn't even know my H at that time... .she convinced herself of this nonsense, probably couldn't accept my H leaving her (' this can't be because of me'), and said this to the lawyer and my H sitting next to her, was like:  "are you  serious?"  so it can be shocking what she thinks is happening vs reality.  This is contributing I believe to this new stalking. 

So far I haven't or (we) reacted or answered or mentioned anything to the kids about this recent behaviour.  We have kept silent on things and have not played into her game.  I did however, texted my SD14 shortly after summer ended to tell her that she is always welcome at our house in case she needed some privacy, space or change of scenery (from mom's but didn't write that) and just to let dad know what she wanted to do.  It was to try and encourage her to start initiating her own visiting decisions and more control over their time.  This was an extension of what was in the email H sent to ex before all of this started happening.  I'm careful because I know not to send anything which may get back to mom, and I don't honestly think her mom read my text but in hindsight, I don't really know if I can trust the kids, I think I can but I too get a bit paranoid in this department!  Does she insist on reading my SD's texts? I honestly can't answer that. Which leads me to remember your advice to take care of  myself and to not react and do whatever it takes not play into this.   It is so hard!  I'm almost feel like crying right now. 

You guys really have this nailed down.  Yes!   I most definitely agree with you guys, the 'look at me' 'remember me' and the 'I'm inserting myself'    so thanks for validating and pointing that out because sometimes I feel like I'm the crazy one for being so suspicious and questioning everything she does.   She is so unbearably intrusive at the best of times.  The meddling she used to do in the past she no longer can get away with anymore since the kids are older and I thought it was near the end of it... but... .noo, dare to dream. 

 When H tells me stuff when he returns from pick ups or drop offs... ."you're joking, right?" is usually my no.1 reaction, then with a huge stare with a 'what the bleep' look on my face.  I can honestly tell you that no matter what, she still has this way of gobsmacking (shocking) me with her behaviour.  You'd think by now it would be 'sure, that's not so surprising' but... .no.   One way I describe her behaviour is, "she's putting her fingers in the mail slot again"  my translation being:  when there is/was a long silent gap, she would often send a spontaneous nonsense type of email usually with a 'nicey nice' tone to see what the "temperature was like" over here.    H doesn't respond anymore but he used to.  If the bait was taken by H, and the response was favourable or polite from him, then a prompt favour or something-in-it-for-her email (narcissist) would soon be returned.  A very predictable pattern.

Isn't that 'job thing' something else?  So interesting to hear the common traits/behaviour.    I've heard it's the self identity problem, but honestly it's the blatant shamelessness of the lying that is hard to swallow.  Head shaking, but again, not surprising once you get used to the delusional.     I do believe others (other parents or whomever) have finally seen through her masks which would explain how she doesn't appear to have many friends anymore (that I'm aware of via the grapevine) who are associated with the kids anymore.  But in the beginning in the early years, wow, she could charm the pants off of everyone with how successful and accomplished her life was.  I was always so amazed at fooling the professional third parties as well.  So if David is reading this:  friend, I know of what you speak, believe me.     You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time, is my favourite.  This, I think is the most challenging area of co or parallel parenting is also sharing of the third parties associated with your kids.  I did not believe or care to accept to what extent or what degree she was capable of in this regard.  But my most earliest observations was, "wow, she could be an academy award winning actress!"    It breaks my heart about the brainwashing and disrespect from kids... .but that's an ongoing issue out there it seems.

The 'stuff' of transport between houses stopped years ago.  Very funny comment about the 'cooties' Soundofmusicgirl!  so true.    The selectiveness of what she believed was suitable or not, the games.    I like the idea of having sherriffs around though!  can I borrow yours please? I'll return them I promise.     We had to threaten harassment charges to her years ago in the days of phone calls still being a suitable form of contact.  That really worked when we bluffed about starting a file with the police, documentation and the threat of having her phone tracked and service stopped... .instantaneously worked  .   So at least we know instilling fear works with boundaries. 

  Good grief could she ever get under my skin back then! (a BPD newbie)  It's more of a PTSD thing just recalling some of it now.  The exchanged suitcase of blankets and stuffed toys for bedtime was often conveniently forgotten  and if we reacted (via email), it was: "oh sure I'll be by with it sometime, so sorry" nonsense with two days of waiting was commonplace.  No more of that and I stopped all 'stuff' transported or shared, long long ago.  That was the first thing that got addressed, the first 'toy' of hers to be thrown out of the play box by moi.   Slowly one can pick up these behaviours and establish your boundaries but it does take time, observation and enforcement.   My self help book is in the making... .(joke)

Now I can add this attention seeking stuff to my so called figurative 'BPD Behaviour Pattern Cycle Wheel'.   (Imagine the big 'Price is Right' clicky wheel turning... .) 

If I listened to my own advice it would be:  "Never EVER let her see she bothers you" is no. 1,  no.2  is NEVER trust the 'nice' (obviously!)  no. 3 IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE (no reaction, turn the other cheek) with a smile and a wave... .usually covers things.

I've developed my own default responses to suggest H to her (unwanted, unnecessary) emails which are now few and far between (thank the lord):

1. No
2. Yes
3. Not my problem
4. I'll discuss this with the kids or (son, daughter)...
5. Silence

Again, I know I rant and sorry for the long post.  Yes, she bugs me and yes I reach out and yes I try to not play into it (at all) but still trying to keep calm and stay sane at the same time... .(big sigh).  Thank you guys, love ya!

cheers,
Klera

[david]

S19 had a kidney stone a month ago. He was in excruciating pain. He lives with me full time and his mom is a nurse. I drove him to the emergency room. S15 was with us and I kinda jokingly said are you texting mom. S19 picked his head up and made sure he did not want that to happen. He was not interested in the drama. The doc referred him to a urologist. He called his mom the nest day to tell her what happened. She insisted she knew a better doc and she would take care of it. He is 19 so I let him decide what he wanted to do. He went with his mom a few days later to a doc. The doc wanted a cat scan and my insurance needed an approval. After the approval his mom made the appointment. She came to pick him up and they missed the appointment.
She is habitually late for everything. Missed my stepsons, her sons, wedding rehearsal. Brides family has had it with her because of other incidents after that. Has been over 30 hours late for pick ups during the summer with no real heads up. I am used to it and don't even try to figure it out. I go on with my life. If the boys and I go out and she shows up she will have to wait until we come back home and I will not change my plans.
Anyway, she made a new appointment for this Saturday at 2 pm. She contacted S19 and gave him some lame excuse around 11:30. He called me, he was at work, and told me about it. I told him to make sure his mom does not cancel the appointment and I will drive him there. It wasn't a big deal for me so I drove him to the appointment. She called him and said he could not get the scan because my health insurance has the wrong birth date for him and she was told by the facility they would not see him. We walked into the facility with the approval from the insurance company. His mom called him again and told him he would not be able to. We sat for about 10 minutes, they called his name, and we left about 15 minutes later. Scan was completed. S19 seems to think that ex just didn't feel like driving. He was annoyed but he also indicated this was her last chance.
Years ago I would have been annoyed. Now I expect bs and am pleasantly surprised when things actually go right.

[Klera]

Hi David,

Ugghhh... .how frustrating.  But it's good you've really got a handle on reactions.  Apparently I still need work in this area!   and she's a nurse on top of it, wow. I can certainly relate to below:

She insisted she knew a better doc and she would take care of it

.

Yes, I've heard of borderline parents switching doctors, ignoring ones whom are in the middle of caring (GP) and undermining the choices and considerations of the father's, simply for control I believe.    Very common indeed.  In our case, my SS14 suffered a concussion, his mom completely ignored the discharged emerg doctor's papers (literally handed to her) and advice to follow up with GP and instead found an 'expert in concussions' some physiotherapist at her gym?  Like:  good grief, woman.   We had to fight her tooth and nail not to demand he return to school too soon (screen time is a no-no) she wanted him back asap for some club commitment.  H put his foot down:  not without a doctor's clearance first.  She took SS to Dr. and he agreed with my H.  No school unless Dr. clears first.  I'm sure she pouted after that.  Again, it's not about the wellbeing of the kids, it's about her winning. 

 I wish your son well.  This might be a long road ahead but it sounds like he's got you to help him deal with her.  I can also relate to 'mom must be notified' type of thing.  When my SS was being lifted into the ambulance, he promptly (without missing a beat) told my SD to "call mom".  I said no, that's your dad's job, don't worry. 

Post note:

Kids just left for their mom's to go back after weekend.  H just came back says 'she' came out of the house and made her presence known once he pulled up.  She NEVER does this but lately, according to Panda she is in this: "see me! I'm asserting myself into your day!" nonsense. 

Take care,
Klera 

 

[david]

Our court order spells out pick ups at either residence. The person picking up is to stay in their car and call the other parents cell phone. When the voicemail turns on you are to hang up and the kids should be out in around 5 minutes. You are supposed to stay in your residence until the car drives away. Ex will come out and stand in her driveway. I make sure my camera is on and pointed at myself and stop looking in that direction. I also make sure my doors are locked. I think she wants to engage in some way but she may just be asserting herself and saying look at me. I usually grab a book or play with my radio. I have books in my car because sometimes it can take a half hour or more before our son comes out of her place. I don't let it get to me anymore. I always think about it this way. Ex is obviously trying to get a reaction from me. I want no parts of that. I believe she does realize at a later time that she is being a big a**hole and then she gets down on herself.
Our youngest still lives with her 50/50. His description of living there is he is on his own. He gets up in the morning, gets ready for school, and goes out to the bus. His mom is still sleeping. He comes home from school and makes something to eat, does his school work most of the time, makes dinner, showers, and goes to bed. He rarely interacts with her. When she is there she is usually in her bedroom with the door locked. Sounds like depression but I know if I say something it will only cause a problem. I feel bad for him but I also believe that is probably best for him when he is there.

[Klera]

Wow that is fascinating in a disturbing kind of way... .(sorry can't explain that remark!)   I often say I like to hear others' stories for the simple common ground supportiveness but it helps me wrap my brain around this.

This is an interesting arrangement/rule you have, that it's pretty strict:

The person picking up is to stay in their car and call the other parents cell phone. When the voicemail turns on you are to hang up and the kids should be out in around 5 minutes. You are supposed to stay in your residence until the car drives away.

and... .you have to lock your doors like she's some kind of wildlife on the loose... .good grief!  that's pretty disturbing but I understand completely.

I make sure my camera is on and pointed at myself and stop looking in that direction. I also make sure my doors are locked. I think she wants to engage in some way but she may just be asserting herself and saying look at me.

Tonight when my H told me that she came out to the street to her car, he's seeing this in his rearview, went to her car passenger side and the trunk, pretended to get something (nothing) and go back to the house.  Keep in mind my SS14 is in the rear of H's car getting his bags and cases out of the vehicle.  She completely bypasses son and goes inside.  Now... .I'm thinking... .weird is the commonplace default here.  I asked H if she acknowledged son?  Nope. Just came out and went inside.  I just cannot fathom why she couldn't have at least said, "hi son, here, let me help you with your bags".   And now son has just witnessed mom and dad not only do not acknowledge each other, that there's no way in hell they will have a friendly chat at the car window either... .wow, sad, but true.

 

I believe she does realize at a later time that she is being a big a**hole and then she gets down on herself.

Really?  I've often wondered about this, do they really feel anything they've done, do they have a conscience, do they feel shame?

He rarely interacts with her. When she is there she is usually in her bedroom with the door locked. Sounds like depression but I know if I say something it will only cause a problem.

I know the feeling.  Ugghh... .sad!  I'm understanding that my stepkids sound like they live this way too and there is little interaction with their mom when she is being neglectful and often they sound like they are making their own dinner and fending for themselves a lot.  Sorry to hear this. 

[Panda39]

You betcha she's getting under my skin! I wish it wasn't so.    I believe something is not right in her life, god knows that's an understatement but there is some spark to this causing her inability to handle it.

We found this to be true also, when my SO's ex starts acting weird something is up in her life.
   

My H says, she can be highly distorted thinker ie many moons ago in the beginning, in one of several mediations, accused my H and I of having an affair when I didn't even know my H at that time... .she convinced herself of this nonsense, probably couldn't accept my H leaving her (' this can't be because of me')

This also happened with me, only in our case his ex told their children that dad was having an affair with me during their marriage as part of her Parental Alienation campaign.  I agree it was her way to place blame on my SO and not own her part of their failed marriage as well as using her false narrative to have the kids be on her side during the divorce. 

I don't honestly think her mom read my text but in hindsight, I don't really know if I can trust the kids, I think I can but I too get a bit paranoid in this department!  Does she insist on reading my SD's texts? I honestly can't answer that.

She may very well be reading SD texts... .either pressuring SD to share (FOG) or just snooping through SD phone without her knowledge.  I would keep any texts pretty benign with the assumption mom is reading them.

You guys really have this nailed down.  Yes!   I most definitely agree with you guys, the 'look at me' 'remember me' and the 'I'm inserting myself' 

I see this with my SO's ex as well, though not as much as I used to.    

Good grief could she ever get under my skin back then! (a BPD newbie)

I was the same, I arrived here one angry Panda... .toxic angry.  The folks here really talked me down off the ledge when I first arrived.  Some of the best advice I received from Matt one of the experienced members, he said to stop focusing on what mom was doing and focus on the kids and what they needed.  So I will pass that along, stop focusing on mom and what she is and isn't doing, just do what you do and focus on your SD.

Now I can add this attention seeking stuff to my so called figurative 'BPD Behaviour Pattern Cycle Wheel'.   (Imagine the big 'Price is Right' clicky wheel turning... .)

Love your sense of humor! You've got to have a good one when you have someone with BPD in your life!  I think we should invent a BPD ex board game that includes the spinny wheel... .thinking like the Game of Life! 

Again, I know I rant and sorry for the long post.  Yes, she bugs me and yes I reach out and yes I try to not play into it (at all) but still trying to keep calm and stay sane at the same time... .(big sigh). 

Just remember where you started and you will see how far you've already come.  You've got this!

Panda39

[Klera]

Thanks Panda!

and to all those that lend an ear and advice.  It really helps and is much appreciated.

[livednlearned]

One reason this is aggravating is because when grown-ups behave like children, we often feel dragged into a parent role, or worse, a child role.

They act like a child might act, so you feel like you have to monitor their behavior like a parent might.

Or worse, you feel like you're dragged into the child role where you want to get even or delight in them suffering, or some other outcome you might enjoy if you were two kids on a playground.

It's a game, the kind that isn't fun.

She started it and you don't want to play.

Or, she started it and you feel manipulated somehow and can't put your finger on why.

Sometimes, it might also be that she started it, and darn it if you don't get some weird enjoyment out of it, and don't like that, and don't understand why.

One way to break the parent-child or child-child game is to figure out an adult behavior.

Like if she's popping out of hedges, you say, "Oh. That's odd. Why are you popping out of hedges?"

To which an adult would say, "I guess you're right. It's strange what I just did. I should think about why I'm doing this."

Of course, BPD traits, for all kinds of reasons, makes it hard for the sufferer to reflect on behavior. You can't ask yourself why you're doing something if it's always someone else's fault you feel bad. Not without treatment, anyway.

Responding to the question, Why are you popping out of hedges, she is more likely to say "You caught me being naughty" or "It's your fault I'm in this hedge" and try to get you to scold or judge or punish or whatever parent-child script she has going on in her mind.

Or she tries to get you to engage in child-child interaction that reduces you to her way of thinking about problems. In which case she is no longer alone in her child like struggle to make sense of behaviors and actions in the adult world.

All you can do is recognize when you feel dragged into a parent or child role with her, and move yourself toward an adult role and respond from there, either in your own mind or with others, or -- when it makes sense and you're ready -- directly with her.

My H's ex sometimes triggers thoughts in my mind that I don't want to have. She ruined a wedding for my step kids without even attending it and part of me felt delight when the extended family rolled their collective eyes. That is me feeling child role stuff.

What I have learned to do is move to the adult role where I can engage much more level behaviors that make it easier to move on and let go, and focus my very limited energy on things that are genuinely meaningful to me.

The silver lining of a BPD relationship is that you can get better at being you.  

[Klera]

Thanks livednlearned 

I had to re-read that.  Impressively valid indeed.

Or worse, you feel like you're dragged into the child role where you want to get even or delight in them suffering, or some other outcome you might enjoy if you were two kids on a playground.

Yup! I learned that it has to do with my own family of origin issues.  I think you or Panda turned the lightbulb on for me. I've also recently suspected my sister has BPD as well. Oh yes, how fun.   I often felt 'done to' as being the youngest in my family, so my fight instinct goes into overdrive!  An eye for an eye.   I become this vicious 'gonna get you back for this' (or at least wish that on her) although I don't act on it!   My H figuratively grasps my ankles as I dream of pouncing for her jugular.   Out of complete respect for him and the kids and for myself, of course I don't respond or play into her games but I can't deny that she gets to me.    Very very true statement.  How about that for chalking one up for a great psychoanalytic session?   

respond from there, either in your own mind or with others, or -- when it makes sense and you're ready -- directly with her.

I've never directly had contact with her for good reason but you should see the (don't worry I won't send this) emails I share with H to help him to word his responses to her.   Often I say to H that he should rely on me to write his responses for him, however, he has this: "dream on" look he gives me.  Like: she would enjoy you going ape s**t on her.   This is the frustration of being on the step parent supportive spouse sideline. 

My H's ex sometimes triggers thoughts in my mind that I don't want to have. She ruined a wedding for my step kids without even attending it and part of me felt delight when the extended family rolled their collective eyes. That is me feeling child role stuff.

Oh gosh, I'm sorry.   Such a time for celebration yet they have to ruin something 'good'.  Share if you need to!

 

I think we should invent a BPD ex board game that includes the spinny wheel... .thinking like the Game of Life!

I kid you not, I discovered someone whom actually made a flow chart!  Seriously.   But yeah, "The Game of How to Train Your Borderline" would have my vote! 

Thanks again you guys!
You're awesome 

[Panda39]

I've never directly had contact with her for good reason but you should see the (don't worry I won't send this) emails I share with H to help him to word his responses to her.   Often I say to H that he should rely on me to write his responses for him, however, he has this: "dream on" look he gives me.  Like: she would enjoy you going ape s**t on her.   This is the frustration of being on the step parent supportive spouse sideline. 

I resemble this the above... .my SO and I would vent and comment on his ex's emails back in the day too.  Completely petty, but if you didn't laugh sometimes you'd cry!

Okay so this is totally bad and completely immature but we actually wrote up a fictional on-line dating profile for his ex just for fun... .we got a little bit hysterical... .I might have peed my pants just a little   (We did not actually post it  )

The funny thing was we actually came across her actual on-line profile and it was just about as fictional. 

Okay I better stop you are seeing the naughty side of the Panda, I better behave or I'll get in trouble.  Just saying I can relate to the need to vent and to laugh instead of cry or get furious.

So a couple of ideas for spaces on our new board game... .

You send the kids to mom's and she keeps their socks and underwear, pay $20 to buy more.

You go to mom's to pick up the kids she keeps you waiting 20 minutes, you lose a turn.

You have the kids call their mom while they visit with you, move ahead 3 places.


 

Panda39

[livednlearned]

How about that for chalking one up for a great psychoanalytic session?  

 

Except a psychoanalyst would want to know why we choose relationships that make it so easy to stay in game-playing child/parent states, something super easy when there are BPD level dynamics in the family system.

The assumption is that we are drawn to these relationships because they offer many ways to avoid genuine emotional intimacy in our primary relationship.

[Klera]

Update:

H got an email from her late last night and, within 2 days of the full moon too - go figure.  You can set a clock to her behaviour she's so predictable.

She suddenly announces (out of the blue) that she (how convenient!) 'works a couple blocks away' from SS music lesson studio (eye roll) and that she gets off at 4:45 (15 minutes before his lesson ends) so she can swing by and pick up son to save my H a trip and bring him back to her place.  Oh really?  why suddenly now offer and where was this tid bit of info a few weeks ago?  hhmm?

I don't even know where to start with this load of b.s it's so full of red flags I'd rather him dance through landmine field.  She must really be coming undone as of late.  Here we go again with the control thing and  'here I am again, miss me?' message not to mention the balls it takes to tell such a lie she thinks we're so gullible.   Such a set up.  It would explain her being caught out last time driving by after lesson and suddenly this justifies why she might be nearby stalking them in her car, that she suddenly as a job nearby... .yeah right.  What a fun game this is.

This is day after tomorrow (Friday) before the kids come over to our place for the weekend.   Turns out H has his lesson just prior to son's so he will be there anyway.  H's lesson time was changed recently and she doesn't know that it's none of her business anyway.     

He hasn't answered her email and doesn't plan to.   It will give her the message we're not playing and hopefully to piss off (at least I dare to dream she will).   But unfortunately I have to prepare my nerves to hear she will show up on Friday or be watching from her car somewhere... .creepy.