Realizing that a real parental/child relationship isn’t possible

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all. From reading here, I’ve come to understand that most of your parents are still alive and that you’re struggling through how to make the best of an ongoing situation.  

In reading the testimonies here, I consider myself blessed that my parents have passed on. Take that as you will.

I felt for my mother when cancer overtook her. I saw a very tired woman that put up with a childish narcissist until her dying day, but I still can’t forgive her for the abuse. She was the most hostile person I’ve ever known.

Reading here can become a struggle. It’s like, if I was face to face with some of you, I’d want to grab you by the shoulders and shake you and tell you to get away from them and to stay away. On the other hand, I know what love and devotion feels like. I understand and I empathize.

What I want to convey here is that once we’re abused, the relationship is over. From the Bettering to the Conflicted board to here. I just see abuse and it’s sad to see. I cry sometimes while reading some of this stuff. Oh, can’t leave out the Family board. There are individuals going through hell there.

Anyway, I’m realizing that there was never a chance of a real relationship between my parents and I. It’s easy to say that now since they’re dead, but it’s the truth. I commend you all that try to find ways to make relationships work with your parents and to the members that learn the tools and implement them to have a relationship with your parent/s.

Where I’m at now, if my parents were still alive, I’m not that guy.

I find peace in the fact that my parents are dead. They were awful people that did awful things.

I’m curious about how much other members are currently doing for their abusers and why you feel the obligation to continue to do so.

[JNChell]

Hi all. From reading here, I’ve come to understand that most of your parents are still alive and that you’re struggling through how to make the best of an ongoing situation.  

In reading the testimonies here, I consider myself blessed that my parents have passed on. Take that as you will.

I felt for my mother when cancer overtook her. I saw a very tired woman that put up with a childish narcissist until her dying day, but I still can’t forgive her for the abuse. She was the most hostile person I’ve ever known.

Reading here can become a struggle. It’s like, if I was face to face with some of you, I’d want to grab you by the shoulders and shake you and tell you to get away from them and to stay away. On the other hand, I know what love and devotion feels like. I understand and I empathize.

What I want to convey here is that once we’re abused, the relationship is over. From the Bettering to the Conflicted board to here. I just see abuse and it’s sad to see. I cry sometimes while reading some of this stuff. Oh, can’t leave out the Family board. There are individuals going through hell there.

Anyway, I’m realizing that there was never a chance of a real relationship between my parents and I. It’s easy to say that now since they’re dead, but it’s the truth. I commend you all that try to find ways to make relationships work with your parents and to the members that learn the tools and implement them to have a relationship with your parent/s.

Where I’m at now, if my parents were still alive, I’m not that guy.

I find peace in the fact that my parents are dead. They were awful people that did awful things.

I’m curious about how much other members are currently doing for their abusers and why you feel the obligation to continue to do so.

[Harri]

Hi JNChell.  I am grateful my parents are dead as well.  I never went no contact with them though.  My mom cut contact with me after I moved out (in my mid 30's) but after I did have limited contact.  

While I did feel love and obligation to my mother and obligation to my dad, that is not why I did not cut contact.  I stayed in contact so that I could learn to differentiate and function on my own.  No contact, in my opinion then and now, does nothing to heal you and I wanted to make sure I did as much healing as I could as fast as I could.  That meant learning to deal with them in the moment.

I think we all have different reasons.  Mine were pretty harsh but then again, I don't know of many who were still living with and tied to their parents when well into their 30's.  My situation and what I needed to do required, in my mind, that i still be in contact but with me setting the limits and calling the shots.  Learning to say no and no longer fearing things and feeling powerless like I did when I was a child

What I want to convey here is that once we’re abused, the relationship is over.

Do you mean for you it was over?  You get to make that choice for sure.  

11 years after my mother died and 9 after my father and I sometimes wish I had done things differently.  That I had known the tools existed and I had used them.  I think the break could have been less traumatic for all of us if I had handled things differently.  

[JNChell]

Hi, Harri.

What I want to convey here is that once we’re abused, the relationship is over.
Do you mean for you it was over?  You get to make that choice for sure. 

This is a value that I’ve adopted in the aftermath. Mostly due to my ex. I’ve had my fill of abuse. It nearly cost me my life. I can’t take anymore of it. We’re susceptible to what most people aren’t. I get that, but I’m done allowing this to happen to me.

11 years after my mother died and 9 after my father and I sometimes wish I had done things differently.  That I had known the tools existed and I had used them.  I think the break could have been less traumatic for all of us if I had handled things differently. 

Harri, I wish that things could’ve been different as well. I’m very grateful to know you here, but I wish that we didn’t have to.

In your above statement, I see you putting undue responsibility on yourself. You were their child and held no obligation to know any tools on how to deal with them. You survived. That’s how you handled things. That’s all you could do. C-PTSD involves being a prisoner, which you know.

It was never up to you to handle things at all, let alone differently. I understand where you’re coming from. I do. But, IMHO, we don’t owe our abusers anything. We owe ourselves a great deal.

[Harri]

 

We’re susceptible to what most people aren’t. I get that, but I’m done allowing this to happen to me.

What are we susceptible to? 

You were their child and held no obligation to know any tools on how to deal with them. You survived. That’s how you handled things. That’s all you could do. C-PTSD involves being a prisoner, which you know.

I did not explain well.  That's what I get for posting at 2am.  I accept and understand that I did what I could and what I knew at the time.  It is now, with more healing and understanding of where I was at the time that I sometimes wish I had done things differently.  It is more of a d'oh sort of thing rather than beating myself up over it.  I feel no obligation nor sense of duty to rescue them.

Anyway, I did not mean to take the convo off course so I hope others respond with their thoughts.

As always, it is good to chat with you.

[naturalturn]

Hi JNChell,

I understand what you mean when you say you're grateful your parents are no longer here. My dad does not have BPD (thank goodness) but my mother does. I haven't spoken to her in over a month now and it feels great. I can feel myself coming back to life again and it is so much easier now to be happy. I dread the day I have to speak to her or see her again. I have nightmares at night of me running into her around town.

She is such a toxic person. I feel so good without her in my life, but I also feel guilty that I don't want her in my life. Guilt, obligation, anxiety- they all still linger. I think it's just how I have been conditioned. Most people around me have no idea about my mother. She puts on a great show when she's in front of a crowd, so other people have contributed to my guilt too because all they talk about is how wonderful she is.

I'm hoping to extinguish as much as possible these feelings of guilt, obligation, and anxiety before the next time I'm in contact with her.

[JNChell]

Hi there, Harri. Always nice to chat with you as well.

What are we susceptible to?

Emotionally manipulative and abusive people. In my experiences it’s almost like they could sniff me out. I’m working on this. Building my confidence, self esteem and having boundaries that are only moveable by me. I need to give off a different “scent”. No more predators.

I did not explain well.  That's what I get for posting at 2am.  I accept and understand that I did what I could and what I knew at the time.  It is now, with more healing and understanding of where I was at the time that I sometimes wish I had done things differently.  It is more of a d'oh sort of thing rather than beating myself up over it.  I feel no obligation nor sense of duty to rescue them.

I’m sorry for misunderstanding you here. Thanks for painting this for me. I’m curious, have you ever dug into your parent’s past at all? I’ve done a little digging and the little bit that I’ve found out makes sense in relation to my parent’s actions. It hasn’t made me feel better about anything, but it has reinforced that this stuff is multigenerational and that the cycle stops with me.

Anyway, I did not mean to take the convo off course so I hope others respond with their thoughts.


This is the beauty of the boards, my friend. Sometimes the topic needs to go off course. Hope you’re well, Harri.

[JNChell]

Hi there, naturalturn. I just wrote you a whole reply and somehow lost it, so I’m starting over.

I haven't spoken to her in over a month now and it feels great.

Do you plan to keep this boundary in place, or have you been giving yourself some space? Do you think that you will eventually have contact with her again?

Are you still communicating with your Dad? How has he been holding up with staying with your mom? I’m going to be blunt here. Is he resistant to her behaviors, numb to them or broken in your opinion?

I can feel myself coming back to life again and it is so much easier now to be happy.

I’m glad to read this. Again, is this a temporary decision or do you plan to make this a permanent change? You may have already read about these things, but I’d like to leave you with some info that you should did deeper on. One is FOG. Fear, Obligation and Guilt. The other is JADE. Justify, Argue, Defend and Explain. JADE is meant for you when contact is made again.

but I also feel guilty that I don't want her in my life.

I understand what you’re saying here. Please understand that there is nothing wrong with practicing self care. Exploring FOG will help you to make more sense of the guilt that you feel. This guilt has been placed on you. You didn’t derive this feeling. We were all born guilt free and happy. Search yourself and don’t let your mother derail your thoughts.

I feel so good without her in my life

You’ve spoken volumes here. You’re validating your self worth.

The people that don’t know simply don’t understand what it’s like to be close to someone with a personality disorder. This stuff manifests behind closed doors. Going out into public is like work release for children like us and it’s sad. The thing is, we’re now adults. The good news is that you showed up here. You’re breaking the cycle.

[yamada]

you have probably seen my posts, but I am waiting for the day so we are all at peace. I am 58 and back in therapy again,because I broke my own rules in a fantasy that things could be different.

[FoxC]

I'm in my 30's. Living with my mother who is more and more violent. Why am I stuck like this ?  Well, a couple of years ago when I still thought that everything is butterflies and my mother's anger was oriented towards my father (I even justified it !), my mother and I offered ourselves a 'new life'in a foreign country. I was capable to learn a foreign language fast and to adapt, not my mother. I have a job and feel responsible for her at least financially. She could not survive on her own (and there's no way back).  But I cannot afford myself a place apart. And also, I have pannick attacks just of thinking that sommething could happen to my mother. I wish it was just a bad dream realizing thay she is mentally sick. But the bad dream goes on for a while now.  I loved her deeply all my life and I still do. I feel really stuck.

[Harri]

Emotionally manipulative and abusive people. In my experiences it’s almost like they could sniff me out. I’m working on this. Building my confidence, self esteem and having boundaries that are only moveable by me. I need to give off a different “scent”. No more predators.

I understand.  How about re-framing this so you are working it from a position of power instead of being at the whims of others and their presumed predator characteristics.  (Yes, I am pushing a bit here... .but I am standing right beside you).  What would that sound like (or actually look like written down here?)

I’m sorry for misunderstanding you here. Thanks for painting this for me. I’m curious, have you ever dug into your parent’s past at all? I’ve done a little digging and the little bit that I’ve found out makes sense in relation to my parent’s actions. It hasn’t made me feel better about anything, but it has reinforced that this stuff is multigenerational and that the cycle stops with me.

What you said was good, it just did not apply.  I have dug into my parents history.  I can understand where her anger hurt and abandonment and shame came from.  A lot of it was from the decades in which she grew up.  Raised by a mostly single mother of 5 kids during the depression.  An alcoholic father who was mostly absent but came around often enough to beat his wife (when sober) and get her pregnant and who molested my mother (no actual touching), again while sober.  She was 8 when she lost the older brother she worshipped and adored to a brutal time with stomach cancer and was the youngest and was basically ignored or raised by two older sisters who had their own issues. 

I get it.  Not sure when the schizophrenia came into play.  Usually it is the 20's to early 30's.  My father's mother died due to breast cancer when he was 19 and he was in the Korean War.  I don't know much else about him.  Certainly nothing that made him so horribly co-dependent and such a 'peace-keeper' passive abuser. 

Making sense of things can help but I think any help is limited.  My parents were not resilient and neither were strong people.  They had no self awareness and expected others to take care of them. 

I agree that a lot of the behavior is generational and yes, it stops here with me.  I have no kids and i have no regrets about that.  Between the abuse and a genetic disorder, it is time for this gene pool to die out. 

[JNChell]

Hello, yamada. I’m glad that you joined in.

you have probably seen my posts, but I am waiting for the day so we are all at peace. I am 58 and back in therapy again,because I broke my own rules in a fantasy that things could be different.

I’m curious about your comment. How did you break your own rules? I think that this in and of itself can be an important and helpful discussion for the other members to observe and possibly join in a conversation.

I’m glad to hear that you’re in therapy. How’s that working for you? Thanks for chiming in.

[JNChell]

Hello, FoxC. 

my mother who is more and more violent

I’m sorry about this.  If you’re comfortable in doing so, can you describe this a bit for us? Domestic violence can cause us so much undue stress. You’ve stated that you’re in your 30’s. Have you been subjected to abuse for this long?

I’m also curious. Why have you been angry with your father. What did he do?

I have a job and feel responsible for her at least financially.

Hmm. I’m going to be blunt here. It almost sounds like you’re being the parent here. Has it been this way for a long time? What drove your mother and father apart?

I feel really stuck.

I’m sorry that you’re experiencing this, but happy to see that you’re self aware. You’re in a good place here. If you’re simply seeking support or a way forward, we’re here for you. We understand.

[JNChell]

Hi, dear Harri.

How about re-framing this so you are working it from a position of power instead of being at the whims of others and their presumed predator characteristics.

Please, continue to push. I appreciate a pragmatic approach. I’m straight forward to a fault. My days are numbered. The quicker, the better.

You are spot on here and I’m working on it. I like how you stated “presumed predator characteristics”. I’m hyper vigilant these days. I’m constantly on guard. I see disorders and potential abuse everywhere. I over analyze everything. I’m ok with this at this point. I’m confident that I’ll eventually realize this and regulate it. It’s just a feeling that I’m not used to yet so it’s coming on pretty strong. The latest and greatest.

A lot of it was from the decades in which she grew up.

Undeniable. We’ve read the research. We know why. The thing is, is that for some reason we’re doing what we can to end the madness. I’m proud of you, Harri. You’re overcoming what most peeps aren’t even aware of. You’re helping others at the same time. It’s commendable.

Your mom was traumatized. I’m sorry for her. This is my biggest curiosity. Why are you and I able to work on shaking this stuff off, while our parents couldn’t?

Making sense of things can help but I think any help is limited.  My parents were not resilient and neither were strong people.  They had no self awareness and expected others to take care of them.

Weakness and lacking self awareness. Yes. I guess that they found a way to feel strong.

Help is definitely limited, but it’s there. We’re products of our parents inability to be resilient. We are resilient, you and I.

[Learning2Thrive]

You are spot on here and I’m working on it. I like how you stated “presumed predator characteristics”. I’m hyper vigilant these days. I’m constantly on guard. I see disorders and potential abuse everywhere. I over analyze everything. I’m ok with this at this point. I’m confident that I’ll eventually realize this and regulate it. It’s just a feeling that I’m not used to yet so it’s coming on pretty strong. The latest and greatest.

Hey, JNChell, I hope you don’t mind me jumping into this thread you have going... .specifically, this convo with Harri.

I bobble in and out and all around that place of hyper vigilance too. I think it comes with the territory after surviving years of abuse from parents then choosing romantic partner(s) that have similar traits as our parents.

Some days I feel pretty confident and like I am getting my head straightened out, then I will “see” something and everything/one is suspect AGAIN and then I start doubting myself AGAIN (because I am broken, stupid, not good enough, not deserving enough, yada yada yada because not even my own mother could love me so why would anyone else ever treat me better than an old wad of already chewed and spit out gum?).

So... .I am working on self esteem. I am allowing myself to make mistakes and learn from them without beating myself to death. I am learning how to use my voice to stand up for myself instead of suffering while making sure everyone else is completely comfortable. It is no longer my job to sacrifice myself and my soul at any cost to make anyone else comfortable. By virtue of all this, a relationship with my mother (she is still alive) is absolutely out of the question for me. It is 100% NOT SAFE and I don’t OWE her anything or an explanation to anyone.

That said, I think everyone has to examine their own situations and make the best decision they can... .and adjust as needed. Personality disorders fall on a spectrum and I don’t think there is any one size fits all answer. Each one of us (as an adult) is responsible to do our best. There is no perfect. We all make mistakes and we each have to decide which path to take once the mistake is realized. I can only answer/choose/be responsible for me.

Thanks again for the question. Thank you for being you.

L2T

[Harri]

Hi JNChell!

Thanks for hearing me.  I think there are a lot of people out there who are disordered or are hurt people struggling just like we are so your caution is not a bad thing.  I just think it is important to work on our own strength and knowing we can handle our selves after working on us, learning the tools and how to interact better as individuals rather than losing ourselves in a relationship.

I will almost always stress being capable, coming at this from a place of personal power (picture an empowering wall poster here... .) and belief in ourselves to handle whatever comes our way.  We will learn what to do when a predator is around us and we will learn/know how to protect ourselves.  

I happen to think you are making very good choices here.

[Turkish]

Speaking to your subject line from the angle of being the single child of a single adoptive mother,  I sought out other families to replace what I felt empty at home.  In one case, my mother resented it and felt threatened.  She told me that BFAM's mom was my "fun" mother while she had to put up with my  

I never thought of my brother from another's mom as a replacement mom (she was like 15 years younger than my mom anyway), but I was attracted to their family unit (that which I saw lacking in my own life),  besides the fact that my BFAM was a good friend.  The point is that I sought out what I was lacking. In a way that also led me to get into the r/s with the mother of my kids,  trying to form the "white picket fence" life as an adult I was denied as a child.  I got there.  And then my ex went off the rails. With me not having the tools or insight to rescue it.  

[Learning2Thrive]

Hi JNChell!

... . I just think it is important to work on our own strength and knowing we can handle our selves after working on us, learning the tools and how to interact better as individuals rather than losing ourselves in a relationship.

Yes! Any relationship that requires losing our sense of self =      

I will almost always stress being capable, coming at this from a place of personal power (picture an empowering wall poster here... .) and belief in ourselves to handle whatever comes our way.  We will learn what to do when a predator is around us and we will learn/know how to protect ourselves.

Yes. Learning how to protect ourselves is super important. I’m going to take this a step further and say we must also be willing and able to protect ourselves... .and that is our responsibility to ourselves.

[Kwamina]

I’m curious about how much other members are currently doing for their abusers and why you feel the obligation to continue to do so.

I think that when you do things out of a sense of obligation, this is not a healthy place to be. Important to note that in our article about fear, obligation and/or guilt (FOG), we mention that FOG isn't how others control us, it's how we let others control us. It's a choice we make.

Now as adults we are responsible for our own choices. We do not have to choose to act out of fear, obligation or guilt. If we have extricated ourselves from the FOG, this however does not necessarily have to mean that we totally distance ourselves from our BPD family-members. On the one hand we have 'obligation' but on the other hand it is also possible to make choices out of a sense of responsibility, something we choose to do because we believe it's the right thing to do based on our own personal values. These types of choices I do consider healthy.

No matter what choices we make, keeping ourselves safe and protecting our own well-being (and that of any children involved) is of course most important of all.

[JNChell]

Thanks everyone. This has become a great conversation.  It has teetered on a debate, but I think some very good information has been shared. I’ve learned here and have been given different POV’s to consider for my own personal set of circumstances.

S3 is on a roll this morning, but I’m going to get to each point when I can. Love you all. You’re wonderful people.

[JNChell]

Hello, Turkish.

I sought out other families to replace what I felt empty at home.

Subconsciously at the time, I did this as well. This is the family that took me in as an adult with child when I hit my low. Humanitarians are real. So are best friends.

I was attracted to their family unit

I still am. My therapist has shown me why and how it was another reason why I didn’t end up with a PD. I have a severe anxiety disorder, but I’m aware of it and I embrace it. I will heal. It’s like the little things saved us from crossing over.

In a way that also led me to get into the r/s with the mother of my kids,  trying to form the "white picket fence" life as an adult I was denied as a child.  I got there.  And then my ex went off the rails. With me not having the tools or insight to rescue it.

“I got there. And then my ex went off the rails”. Turkish, this makes me cry. I’m with you on the tools and insight, but at the end of the day, was this really our obligation? Was this what we envisioned as true love?

[JNChell]

Kwamina, I’m glad that you joined us.

FOG isn't how others control us, it's how we let others control us.

Yes. It’s our strength and what we allow. My mind is shifting to this. It’s a transition. Old habits.

it is also possible to make choices out of a sense of responsibility,

We should’ve been taught this by our parents and it feels unfair to have to learn this so much further down the road. The good news is that we’re aware now. We want to learn this. We want to become better. We possess adult minds that have been to hell and back. In the aftermath of that, we’re now processing. We’re resilient. I think that the odds are stacked in our favor.

[JNChell]

Kwamina, I love this. I think it’s always best to stand one’s ground in a strong, but peaceful manner.

Value:   I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:   It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:   Communicate my values. Lead by example (education - proactive)

Value:   I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:   It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:   When a hot topics begin to simmer, I redirect the discussion to a safer topic.  (incident avoidance - proactive).

Value:   I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:   It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:   I will take a time out or hang up (incident avoidance - reactive).

Value:   I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:   One cannot be respected in a consistently verbally abusive environment.
Action:   I will remove myself permanently from the environment or until there is change (total avoidance).

[Learning2Thrive]

L2T, I was actually hoping that you would show up! Glad you did. How did the ride go?

Awww, thanks JNChell. The ride was great. So beautiful and soothing. Though, it was much shorter than I would have preferred, but husband was with me and he had all he could manage. So, I put on my wise mind and smile. I was am still am thankful for what I was able to do and enjoy yesterday. I also formed some ideas for how I can go back with a few gal pal cyclists who will enjoy a longer ride.

 I know what you’re saying. These are awful feelings, but the important thing to know is that we were conditioned to feel this way when we were our most innocent selves. We were little sponges relying on our adults. As we have become adults with children, we know what’s right and what’s wrong. Unfortunately, some of us have come to this conclusion by reliving our childhoods through intimate relationships.

Yes. I, too, cry for the people here suffering real pain.

By virtue of all this, a relationship with my mother (she is still alive) is absolutely out of the question for me. It is 100% NOT SAFE and I don’t OWE her anything or an explanation to anyone.

Kudos! I know the pain that is involved with a decision like this. Abuse is no longer allowed. Grieving the parents and childhood that we didn’t have is, IMHO, the hardest part of this. It’s like we don’t have roots, but we feel like we have to be an Oak.

This is a beautifully sad and accurate description of how I have felt most of my life. However, as I work on myself (including letting go of relationships that serve no healthy purpose) and practice the tools I am very pleased to say my chosen family is growing.  

Have a great day JNChell and everyone who has participated in this thread. I’m thankful all of you are part of my chosen family and for the healthy discussions we can have here.

  L2T

[JNChell]

Speaking of oaks, I’ve seen this one first hand while playing gigs in Chareleston. The pics don’t do it justice. It’s an amazing living thing to witness.

www.angeloaktree.com

[naturalturn]

Do you plan to keep this boundary in place, or have you been giving yourself some space? Do you think that you will eventually have contact with her again?

I think I will eventually have contact with her again, I am just not sure when. This is the first time I have ever done something remotely like this so I am figuring it out as I go along with the help of supportive people in my life and my therapist. Honestly, it sounds great to never have to speak to her again, but I doubt that will happen.

Are you still communicating with your Dad? How has he been holding up with staying with your mom? I’m going to be blunt here. Is he resistant to her behaviors, numb to them or broken in your opinion?

I still talk to my dad, everyday actually. And I try to visit him at least once a week. He has been very supportive throughout all of this. My mother and he are separated. But she still contacts him most days. He seems pretty numb to her behaviors at this point. She is hateful towards him, but he brushes it off. He reminds me that I'm doing the right thing and I think he is right. My quality of life has improved drastically without my mother in it.

Thank you for you advice and support JNChell. It is nice we are all here for each other 

[Notwendy]

I’m curious about how much other members are currently doing for their abusers and why you feel the obligation to continue to do so.



One defense mechanism children of abusers have is to think " it is not that bad". This is because an abusive person isn't usually abusive all the time. They can also be loving, act contrite.  Abuse is cyclic, and so there are times when the person is in "make up" mode and this can be confusing. Also, a child growing up in an abusive situation doesn't have a reference for normal.

In addition, the abuser often blames the victim.

It took me a long time to identify that my parents- both of them- were abusive to me. My BPD mother was  emotionally abusive. My father didn't abuse me directly but as her enabler, he was complicit in denying what she was doing.

Why did it take me so long?

My mother didn't beat me. My parents took great care of me in other ways- I had food, shelter, nice clothes, a good education, braces on my teeth, health care and some really wonderful times growing up. I assumed abuse was getting beaten, starved, locked in a basement.

My mother didn't directly sexually abuse me, but she shared TMI about her sex life with me and acted inappropriately sexually in front of me when I was young. I assumed that SA was touching.

I loved my father and he was a great father to me. I think the main issue was keeping my mother's condition a secret and making us pretend she was normal and also enlisting us as her enablers as well to keep the peace.  I didn't want to go NC with him ( he is now deceased). I feel he did the best he knew to do with a tough situation. I think we had a parent/child relationship a lot of the time and consider him to be my only "parent".

A parent/child relationship with my mother isn't possible. I tried to go NC with her once when I was younger and single but it didn't work as I still wanted to see my father and they were a package deal. Once I had kids, they had a great relationship with my father. I didn't leave them unsupervised with my mother- that was a boundary - and she was motivated to behave herself in a group family setting. My kids didn't bond with my mother- but they loved my father and he was a great grampa to them. I am most glad that I didn't go NC for this- my kids got to spend time with their grampa and it was a good relationship.

I am LC with my mother. The relationship isn't typical. I was parentified by my early teens. Her interactions with me are about her- what she wants, her feelings, her needs. I have kept an emotional distance from her yet still interact with her. Why this and not NC?  My father was her main caretaker, and she was widowed in her elder years. She may have been a scary abuser to me as a child, but I am middle age and she is an elderly widow. She can't harm me. I look at things in the here and now and she is not a danger to me. It wouldn't seem right to me to cut contact with her at this time. I also have done a lot of work on my own emotional boundaries and putting her issues into perspective and not feeling as reactive or hurt by things she says or does.

What I did feel when my father passed away- in addition to a lot of grief over his death and some "wishing I did some things differently" was a surprising sense of relief. Not relief that he was gone. I was very sad about that, but relief that, I didn't have to fear his disapproval if I had boundaries with my mother. Much of the fear in FOG for me was not really fear of her, but fear of disapproval from him. I did experience that as I started to have boundaries with her before he died, and this caused me to lose the relationship I had with him. I tried to get this back but couldn't. Once he was gone, I felt I didn't have this to lose with my mother. I didn't want to treat her cruelly but I no longer felt I had to let her be emotionally abusive to me. I didn't expect to feel this odd sense of freedom in along with grief,  it was surprising.

[JNChell]

Hi, naturalturn.

I think I will eventually have contact with her again, I am just not sure when. This is the first time I have ever done something remotely like this so I am figuring it out as I go along with the help of supportive people in my life and my therapist. Honestly, it sounds great to never have to speak to her again, but I doubt that will happen.

I understand and thank you for responding. It is definitely new territory when we decide to start protecting ourselves. Have you had a chance to read on the right side of this board? Like you, I’ve been figuring this out along the way. That’s the only way that we can sort this out. There isn’t a textbook on our own personal situations. What’s important is that you’re here.

I’m glad that you have supportive people in your life. I’m doubly glad that you have a trusted therapist. These two things make a big difference to the point of being a game changer.

You will most likely have to be in contact with your mother again. This community would like to assist you in doing this in a manner that feels safe and acceptible to you. Not on your mother’s terms.

He seems pretty numb to her behaviors at this point. She is hateful towards him, but he brushes it off.

It’s great that you have a good relationship with your father. Maybe you can eventually introduce him to some tools in a gentle way.

More importantly, I hope that your therapist is helping you to realize that you shouldn’t adopt your father’s thought pattern through all of this. We drag this stuff into relationships and we need to be careful. Know what I mean?

It is nice we are all here for each otherl

Yes it is. It’s also nice to know that another member has shown up.

[Libra]

JNChell,
I apologize for going off topic here, I do not mean to highjack a really good thread.

But Notwendys contribution has made me wonder:

It took me a long time to identify that my parents- both of them- were abusive to me.

How did you manage to clearly identify this in the end? And - maybe even more importantly - how did you accept this?

Sorry, I am struggling with this at the moment... .

Libra.

[JNChell]

Notwendy, thanks for showing up here. |iii

One defense mechanism children of abusers have is to think " it is not that bad". This is because an abusive person isn't usually abusive all the time. They can also be loving, act contrite.  Abuse is cyclic, and so there are times when the person is in "make up" mode and this can be confusing. Also, a child growing up in an abusive situation doesn't have a reference for normal.


This is the biggest defense mechanism. The cyclic dynamic causes so much psychological damage. We meet capable people, and have no idea what to do with it.


It took me a long time to identify that my parents-m

You were abused by both of your parents. Can we speak freely about this now?

[JNChell]

Libra, how are you?

How did you manage to clearly identify this in the end? And - maybe even more importantly - how did you accept this?

I know that your question is directed towards Notwendy. Identifying it took distance. Acceptance took a great deal of pain. It took experiencing my childhood over and over again. I’m here now.