Hell hath no fury like a [BPD] woman scorned.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I excused myself for a cigarette, (the flirting had been healthy up until I got   number 1)

 in that space of time that I left and came back... .she went through my paperwork on my desk and copied a diagram I drew... .on to her own paper. (ive "known" her for the space of 10 mins)

I brought it up when I noticed (she semi-hid it amongst her stuff but it was clearly visible) we study completley different subjects, and acted surprised and equally "embarassed" that I pointed it out

"oh... .(sensual pause, acting coy) I just... .(slightly dramatic pause)... .really love it"

ok 4 years ago prior to BPDx I would have thought "bit strange, but cute all the same"

this time; sure she didnt "love" the look of horror on my face when she said that, and I think my acting skill of crunching my paper coffee cup whilst giving her the "what the heck" look, was part concious part subconcious.

I spent the next 5 minutes which felt like 5 hours trying to get away.

it culminated in triggering abandonment "Oh, how  do I know if I will ever see you again Cromwell?"

ermmm, we (regrettably now!) work together? and will be for the next *gulp* year?

"Oh, yea,,,well ok... .have fun with your girlfriend tonight Cromwell... ."

(i told her already at the start I was single)

Highly attractive,  :check:Sensual, intelligent rapport aka mirroring   but... .F- for creeping, triggering and rifling through my stuff.

The only thing Ive found that works well is to show from the outset that they have been "clocked". Then its just a case of avoid, avoid.

if I sound a bit flustered its because I am.

I must have the equivalent of "cluster Bs clear to land over here" tattooed on my forehead.

Ive got one running around somewhere with my hoody and expired credit card in the pocket, now I cant even leave a piece of paper on my desk without it being added to some shrine I guess.

No im not narcissistic, just too tired of all this BS. It is so transparent now that I dont even second guess myself that "maybe im just being paranoid, reading too much into it".

nope, if it walks like a duck, talk likes a duck... .its a duck.

acting a jerk, doesnt work, it makes the personality "more interesting", "one of a kind" and "playing hard to get".

being blunt and honest doesnt work, it gets distorted, me being single = "he is going to cheat on his gf with me"

when she said that at the end I replied "yea... .I will... .thanks"

and  d to myself a bit as I left. I hope at least it did some smoke and mirrors work to help my escape.

Guess im just reaching out here, for what, I dont know. Any help appreciated, in the midst of your own dilemmas, I guess i might not even be looking for advice, just taking a drink from the oasis again

What do I have to do to stop the madness? locate and destroy their spawning point?

[Cromwell]

I excused myself for a cigarette, (the flirting had been healthy up until I got   number 1)

 in that space of time that I left and came back... .she went through my paperwork on my desk and copied a diagram I drew... .on to her own paper. (ive "known" her for the space of 10 mins)

I brought it up when I noticed (she semi-hid it amongst her stuff but it was clearly visible) we study completley different subjects, and acted surprised and equally "embarassed" that I pointed it out

"oh... .(sensual pause, acting coy) I just... .(slightly dramatic pause)... .really love it"

ok 4 years ago prior to BPDx I would have thought "bit strange, but cute all the same"

this time; sure she didnt "love" the look of horror on my face when she said that, and I think my acting skill of crunching my paper coffee cup whilst giving her the "what the heck" look, was part concious part subconcious.

I spent the next 5 minutes which felt like 5 hours trying to get away.

it culminated in triggering abandonment "Oh, how  do I know if I will ever see you again Cromwell?"

ermmm, we (regrettably now!) work together? and will be for the next *gulp* year?

"Oh, yea,,,well ok... .have fun with your girlfriend tonight Cromwell... ."

(i told her already at the start I was single)

Highly attractive,  :check:Sensual, intelligent rapport aka mirroring   but... .F- for creeping, triggering and rifling through my stuff.

The only thing Ive found that works well is to show from the outset that they have been "clocked". Then its just a case of avoid, avoid.

if I sound a bit flustered its because I am.

I must have the equivalent of "cluster Bs clear to land over here" tattooed on my forehead.

Ive got one running around somewhere with my hoody and expired credit card in the pocket, now I cant even leave a piece of paper on my desk without it being added to some shrine I guess.

No im not narcissistic, just too tired of all this BS. It is so transparent now that I dont even second guess myself that "maybe im just being paranoid, reading too much into it".

nope, if it walks like a duck, talk likes a duck... .its a duck.

acting a jerk, doesnt work, it makes the personality "more interesting", "one of a kind" and "playing hard to get".

being blunt and honest doesnt work, it gets distorted, me being single = "he is going to cheat on his gf with me"

when she said that at the end I replied "yea... .I will... .thanks"

and  d to myself a bit as I left. I hope at least it did some smoke and mirrors work to help my escape.

Guess im just reaching out here, for what, I dont know. Any help appreciated, in the midst of your own dilemmas, I guess i might not even be looking for advice, just taking a drink from the oasis again

What do I have to do to stop the madness? locate and destroy their spawning point?

[Husband321]

Hey Cromwell,

I hear you. I don't even know what "normal" is anymore.

I am dating someone new  and she came over to my place. I sat on the couch a few feet away for a second in the middle of doing something else and she responded with "why are you so far away. Do you not like me?"  And this led to a weird scenario where she was saying if I don't like her I should just tell her. This happens repeatedly.

Later she chalked this up to pms.

Other days she would come over after work and start doing my dishes, laundry and household chores without me even asking.  I would ask he to relax. This led to "oh you don't want me to help? Ok. I won't touch anything". I guess I hurt her feelings.

I heard my father was sick, and she overheard me on the phone.  He lives across the country.  Which led to "when are we going to visit? Want to go next week? I can take a day off". When I explained I may or may not go, this led to "oh you don't want me to go? I understand" again I hurt her feelings.

She also texted me to text my sister happy birthday, and I don't even know how she knew it was her birthday.  She has good points, but is super clingy also with some abandonment issues.  

I really don't know what is normal or not.  And then other ones whom are seemingly laid back are playing the field with several boyfriends and lying to all of them.

[Cromwell]

normal is a word that when I brought up as a colloquilalism for what I regard as "healthy, sane", my therapist lactched on to it like a homing missile to shoot it down.

"is there such a thing as normal, cromwell"?

here we go, more being led down the mental garden path into obscurity.

she has a point though, im probably already - at - the stage where I could look around at mainstream culture and easily refer to myself as - "abnormal", with the pejorative connotations that go with it.

Im quite ok with that actually, if it would actually have the benefit of being left the hell alone, just that this doesnt seem to be part of the deal.

shawnlam: thanks for your post like all the rest that have helped - they are alike opening a window to a breath of fresh air.

husband: I detect all that phraseology not so much from my ex who wasnt confrontational like that, but a relationship prior, she would always do the same leading statements which are actually invitations/challenges to put on the defensive to refute their "version" of reality. The trick is, if you dont, then it is seen as a "guilty by silence" conclusion on our part. By getting into the defensive, it is created to only have one of two options;

have to "apologise" for "hurting" feelings OR

(my personal favourite)

I use to wind her up by just agreeing "yea, your right, its because I dont love you, how did you find out?"

just ridicule it, its all a bunch of BS silliness mind games anyway.

[JNChell]

Is this a post about a current interest, or a reflection about your ex?

[JNChell]

"is there such a thing as normal, cromwell"?

Your therapist may have been trying to decipher what is normal for you. I agree, it was a poor approach. Also, since this is an an anonymous site, is there a chance that you challenge therapists more than you work with them? Just a curiosity.

in that space of time that I left and came back... .she went through my paperwork on my desk and copied a diagram I drew... .on to her own paper. (ive "known" her for the space of 10 mins)

That’s an automatic “you’re out and stay out!” No negotiation or tears.

Man, I’m sorry that you’re feeling flustered with these same old feelings. Perhaps it’s time to take an extended break from dating?

What would an ideal future look like for Cromwell? Wife? Kids? Settled into a long term home? What do you want out of life?

[Cromwell]

Is this a post about a current interest, or a reflection about your ex?

It happened just a few hours ago JNChell

we are at the same college but it doesnt bother me, was just a cascade of triggers that leaked through. The taking my paper to copy was just the first of many.

next time she sees me and acts weird, im just going to bore her to death with innane drivel, i like to pick a random subject than lecture on it in intense, feigned passion, to intricate levels. Maybe add in a conspiracy theory like believing the earth is flat and if she would like to research with me where Atlantis is, I think its under neath the next city. will she spare some money to buy a spade, im broke and going there this weekend to dig.

along those lines, it usually works. as repellant.

[JNChell]

Cromwell, setting proper boundaries are better than messing with the heads. Trust me, you will feel better about it the next day. Your original story here says you’re about to repeat some punishment on this latest girl. Am I off on my prediction?

[Cromwell]

Your therapist may have been trying to decipher what is normal for you. I agree, it was a poor approach. Also, since this is an an anonymous site, is there a chance that you challenge therapists more than you work with them? Just a curiosity.

Ive only been twice, and for a few weeks each time. I never challenged her, I agreed, I was just a teenager back then JNChell, plus she was hot, intelligent, I just nodded to whatever she said like a awe struck puppy. most of the time it was just "how do you feel about that?" or subtle variants of it. It was psychodynamic, which is just talking to her and the wall in equal measure.

They are trained to queston that anything you say is just lies anyway.

in that space of time that I left and came back... .she went through my paperwork on my desk and copied a diagram I drew... .on to her own paper. (ive "known" her for the space of 10 mins)

That’s an automatic “you’re out and stay out!” No negotiation or tears.

Man, I’m sorry that you’re feeling flustered with these same old feelings. Perhaps it’s time to take an extended break from dating?

What would an ideal future look like for Cromwell? Wife? Kids? Settled into a long term home? What do you want out of life?

A holiday JNChell, somewhere sunny, im thinking of Morocco, take a trip into the desert and reflect on these questions. Kids, I have a step son, i used to have 5, one is enough now I had that experience. A wife is on the xmas wish list JNChell. Besides getting this degree done, ive got everything id ever wanted JNChell. House paid off, careers that I wanted. Travelled to all the places I wanted to, when youve seen one beach youve seen them all. im fullfilled. I guess in a way its what led me to my ex, I could afford to get risky, theres nothing that she caused that held me back. When I think of the problems of the third world, I dont think many view their failed relationship with BPDx as high on the list, if at all. I feel a bit self indulged to have carried that sort of "issue" for so long, and see it as a bit of a luxury that I afforded it the time I have.

I dont know whats left to do JNChell, can you relate? Getting to a day when all the prior dreams had been attained and wondering "whats left to do?"

[Skip]

Hell hath no fury like a [BPD] woman scorned.

What was the "fury"?

[JNChell]

Cromwell, this is just a thought. Did posting on the PSI board possibly trigger you? It’s an honest question and nothing more.

[Cromwell]

Cromwell, setting proper boundaries are better than messing with the heads. Trust me, you will feel better about it the next day. Your original story here says you’re about to repeat some punishment on this latest girl. Am I off on my prediction?

Its the only way JNChell, you have to go to their level and beat them at their own game. Its a bit like going undercover, you never reveal the criminals by showing your true self. The same works with all these disorders, a bit of guile is essential and not an optional extra. I think I got rid of her anyway, the seduction attempt failed and the reason is they can pick up the vibes when you break out of the entrancement. I was putty in the hands of my ex, I was entranced by this new interest  - for the first 10 minutes, once the red flag comes it was like a bucket of cold water hitting me and going to defcon 5. Which is great. Its what is supposed to be.

[JNChell]

I don’t believe that we have to go to their level to beat them at their own game. A game typically means a level playing field.

I understand the hurt and betrayal. I understand the lingering thoughts of revenge. What makes the most sense to me is a time out right now.   

What do you want out of life?

[Cromwell]

What was the "fury"?

nothing - but thats down to my ability to defuse and she vented by having the "last word" when I made my excuses to leave (she didnt make that easy), if it wasnt my college, I would have just left there and then without a second thought. thankfully we arent on the same course.

for now its just going to be some uncomfortable ducking and diving through the corridors.

what should I do Skip? buy her a frame for the copy of the drawing she "loves" the next time I see her?

Thats what they do in this culture right - something from the friends sitcom. im tired of all this BS, wish you could just tell people to f off.

you can, its just they dont listen. I told her I was single, she converted that into her own mind that I had a girlfriend. its like speaking a foreign language to these head cases.

[Harri]

Hi Cromwell, how are you?

I was reading your post and got such a different feeling from it than you did.  I think you did great in terms of recognizing something was off about how she was reacting and being able to see the same behaviors that caused such a problem in your last relationship.  And not just her behaviors, but yours as well.  You saw the red flags (I really hate that term) but you also changed the way you respond to them and ***that is what is important***.  <--- way to go Cromwell!   

the rest?  It is all smoke.

[Cromwell]

I don’t believe that we have to go to their level to beat them at their own game. A game typically means a level playing field.

I understand the hurt and betrayal. I understand the lingering thoughts of revenge. What makes the most sense to me is a time out right now.   

What do you want out of life?

,

A lot of things JNChell, a quiet peaceful life would be a good start, which ive never had. Being able to leave a piece of paper on a desk without having to lock it away first.

some casual sex, where I can leave without triggering "abandonment"

ive had a good day at first, this was just a trigger back down memory lane. thanks all to who supported me through. Like I said JNChell, one step at a time - I want a holiday, maybe roam the alps for awhile clear my head.

[JNChell]

Take some time off from women. Spend some time with yourself. Dude, we’re not going to find ourselves through relationships with girls/women. The corrective outcome that we spoke about a few nights ago doesn’t work. It’s a clinical way of describing hopes that aren’t realistic. These hopes are wedged between our psyche and real life. The here and now. We can’t suppress this and hope to move forward.

[JNChell]

maybe roam the alps for awhile clear my head.

I’d like to recommend a book. “Wild” by Cheryl Strayed.

[Skip]

what should I do Skip? buy her a frame for the copy of the drawing she "loves" the next time I see her?

Why would you do anything? Why is this not just a blip on the radar screen. There was no hell. No fury.

You triggered. Had a disproportionate reaction to an event.

It's OK. See it for what is is and try to ramp down.

In our lives we will not connect long term with 90% of the women we encounter. Relationship are a numbers game to some extent. We have to kiss a lot of frogs.

The best thing is to not take the early stages of this stuff too seriously. When I was Internet dating, I met a mix of attractive women that weren't interested in me, women I wasn't attracted to - some really nice, some head cases - I connected with several and we all sorted it out and I ended up with a nice lady. You want to process and move on and not dwell on the women that don't have a mutual interest or maturity.

That might be better than a picture frame.  

[toughday]

A patient came into my clinic the other day who i fairly quickly labeled BPD. She was attractive and incredibly flirtatious. Comments like "i feel like i have known you ages" "your clinic top matches your eyes" and the feeling that she was looking directly into my soul when talking to me. All of this in a couple of half hour treatment sessions. It did freak me out, was it BPD? i don't know as probably not enough to go on but it felt instantly scary and also familiar comfortable and warm at the same time. it was really hard not to slip into the comfortable feelings and reciprocate.
Are they BPD, do we see it everywhere now? Before i would have just thought great this girl is very keen and taken it as a compliment. Now its like walking the plank and jumping into a sea full of sharks.

[SerendipityChild]

Guess im just reaching out here, for what, I dont know. Any help appreciated, in the midst of your own dilemmas, I guess i might not even be looking for advice, just taking a drink from the oasis again
What do I have to do to stop the madness? locate and destroy their spawning point?

My dear diary
Are you okay? Got your note and tried to respond but it says you're not currently accepting messages. Dude, it was a long letter, too. And I've missed you. But I do respect your privacy. So many things to tell you but can't post. I deserve some privacy, too.   As much as I appreciate this board I'm refraining from reading any posts- too many triggers for me personally, slowly sliding the beret off my head. It can get frustrating. So I just hit reply to the first post I saw of yours and typing this with eyes half-closed, trying not to peek, I swear   I do hope all is well with you, your school and your Saturday finishers. Whenever I see cakes I think of you

[Cromwell]

Hi, just an update, I was outside and she passed by me and just put her head down and kept walking, so I think the problem is sorted out.

thanks to all. SC, sorry, there has been issue with my PM box for a long time I dont know how to fix it.

I had to sometimes take a small break from the board, im sure many can relate, we are here whenever you need us.   

[Skip]

Hi, just an update, I was outside and she passed by me and just put her head down and kept walking, so I think the problem is sorted out.

What is the problem?  She flirted, copied a drawing in your book, you questioned it and left.

What are you afraid will happen here?

[Cromwell]

What is the problem?  She flirted, copied a drawing in your book, you questioned it and left.

What are you afraid will happen here?

its the unpredictability the not-knowing that triggers anxiety.

there was never any warning when my ex created havoc, it came in times of peace and quiet.

Im just overly cautious, which is preferable to my former reckless self. Sure this coiuld have ended up well, but I could equally be on this board a month later saying what ive read from others... .

"Something really terrible has just happened, this is my now 2nd BPD relationship and I cant believe I fell for it twice - I should have known better, seen the red flags for what they were... ."

[1stTimer]

nyou can, its just they dont listen. I told her I was single, she converted that into her own mind that I had a girlfriend. its like speaking a foreign language to these head cases.

You told her you were single and then displayed no interest. She didn't convert it, she probed and gave you an opening. You didn't take it. Thus the "head down next time she saw me".  I'm not saying she doesn't have BPD or her behavior was not strange, just that women do all sorts of weird things since they both haven't been taught and in many ways see no benefit in being up-front and pursuing/asking out. It gives all their power away. So they and she have to find ways to let you know they are interested or prompt or sometimes even force you to ask them out. Mine would say things like "You can ask me out for drinks Friday if you'd like" to which I'd reply "You can ask me out for drinks Saturday if you'd like".

Again not saying to not to be careful, and God knows I get it after my single pwBPD experience, but sometimes looking for anything so hard, including red flags, only finds that thing everywhere.  Maybe if you lower the alert level from Defcon 3  you might just be open to and attract women whom you don't even need to screen. I say this only because after taking a deep breath recently and getting my head back on straight I just naturally attracted a (and was attracted to) a totally normal and sweet woman, the very kind I used to.  If your experience with the pwBPD was an outlier like mine was I'd simply try to let it go and forget it ever existed and be open to whom you used to be. If it is a pattern it is definitely something to look at and be careful of but if it was not then looking for it everywhere can only possibly find it everywhere. Just my 02... .

[Cromwell]

Thanks 1st Timer, the anxiety just spiked, it went too fast and i wasnt at that moment "dating" or looking to initiate, I was working and a few things she said and did, it conflated to BPDx.

im still carrying residues of a trauma, and it was good to recognise it. Its not that there is anything major to worry about, its more a case of needing to meet the right partner that will match better. im done with the speed dating, before I met my ex I wouldnt have thought twice about any of it.

I feel really old writing that, but in the context of just starting college, i get invites to the house parties, i get interest from the women/girls 10 to 15 years younger, and I see my ex in every single one of them. Maybe its a generational thing im dealing with and ive moved on from it all; the wild nights, the drugs, the women im really interested in always end up declaring they are already married or taken. The others, younger, sitting by themselves and not getting involved with anyone, would feel uncomfortable not because I cant get along great, but the social awkwardness of being approached by an older guy. So its a stale mate, on all borders.

its fine ive got enough on my plate to deal with, if I meet someone where it isnt full-on, great, instead im going to delay any hook ups until the holidays and I can afford to concentrate better on a relationship - right now its still healing in the midst of other life stressors. it was too much at once, for me to handle at least where im at. its also not fair that i am subconciously seeing my ex in women based solely on just sharing some shared traits, i need time to remind myself that I havent been "fated" to attract disordered people, because there is a big element there of feeling that way.

[Husband321]

its fine ive got enough on my plate to deal with, if I meet someone where it isnt full-on, great, instead im going to delay any hook ups until the holidays and I can afford to concentrate better on a relationship - right now its still healing in the midst of other life stressors. it was too much at once, for me to handle at least where im at. its also not fair that i am subconciously seeing my ex in women based solely on just sharing some shared traits, i need time to remind myself that I havent been "fated" to attract disordered people, because there is a big element there of feeling that way.

I might be wrong, but it think the thing is that BPD have the exact same traits as non disordered, they just are far more extreme. 

When a girl is into you, often times she does acquire your interests. As do BPD, but obviously not to the same extent.

If a girl is feeling neglected she might flirt With others to feel good.  A BPD might have no problem cheating to get the same feeling.

Some women are not good at managing money.  But not to the same reckless extent of a BPD.

Some girls will be very supportive.  But not to the same extent of a BPD when you are painted white.

So I agree. When we think of our BPD ex it is easy to see the beginning of the same traits in all women.

[CryWolf]

its the unpredictability the not-knowing that triggers anxiety.

there was never any warning when my ex created havoc, it came in times of peace and quiet.

Im just overly cautious, which is preferable to my former reckless self. Sure this coiuld have ended up well, but I could equally be on this board a month later saying what ive read from others... .

"Something really terrible has just happened, this is my now 2nd BPD relationship and I cant believe I fell for it twice - I should have known better, seen the red flags for what they were... ."

I understand your fears, I actually dated someone with possibilities of BPD after my ex. My friend also dated her, and can confirm. Its scary to fall back into it, but its the risk of dating.

you have a huge pool of people and not everyone is healthy. but its the risk and knowing when to seperate when things start to seem off. Just dont let every red flag deter you from a potential possible relationship.

Be patient. its okay if youre not ready now, and its normal to be overly cautious. it seems like you are all well aware of everything and acknowledge your feelings. keep up the hard work and journey on healing 

[Cromwell]

Well I bump into her now and again since then and the flirting (on her side) is on full-force but I politely change the subject - make an excuse to leave .

to be direct here, its a hard one to guage - I was in a room on my own doing some work and id already had a "social face, friendly" chat in the hall, and the compliments on everything just flooded in, I didnt reciprocate but was just mannered and said see you later, going to do some work.

crywolf, I find all this stuff innately easy nowadays. put a chill down my spine when you walk in a room and well, whats the point, its all just time waste. You are right there is a huge pool of people, I call people out now and its useful; today I said (you always do it in a jokingly smiling way) "I feel theres something a bit funny going on with what you are saying (about x,y,z) whatever, then watch their reaction. Clamming up rather than being innocently shocked/confused is their giveaway.

they leave you alone when they cotton on that you have a brain and dont trust easily. Off to an easy target instead. hope you are coping well and well done listening to your intuition at that second potential after your ex. As hurtful as the past might have been, its at its base, i view it positively as a valuable experience to now be used and not overlooked.

i know for certain I wont be on this board saying I got into the same/similar mess again.

hope your studies are going well.