What is the difference between a BPD relationship and just a "bad" relationship?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Bad things can happen when relationships end. When they do, not everything that is bad is BPD driven... .

When we see lists of 100 red flags, the list is full is things that are just the crappy parts of relationships going bad that we see in all kinds of relationships.

What is the difference between normal difficult behavior, which can be situational, and chronic mental illness?

What aree examples?

[Skip]

Bad things can happen when relationships end. When they do, not everything that is bad is BPD driven... .

When we see lists of 100 red flags, the list is full is things that are just the crappy parts of relationships going bad that we see in all kinds of relationships.

What is the difference between normal difficult behavior, which can be situational, and chronic mental illness?

What aree examples?

[Sirnut]

To me the most striking thing was the way my friend could unexpectedly present as a completely different person. This wasn’t just normal emotional volatility, more like the flicking of an inner switch. I found this very hard to come to grips with because the different selves didn’t seem connected to each other.

This happened a few times on a smallish scale early on, but it seemed to become more pronounced as we got closer to each other. The big change came right at the end. In her demeanour towards me, it was as though she turned into a robot overnight and she never changed back again. It left me wondering whether I really knew her, or which of her different selves was the real one.

[toughday]

I agree with this, i remember very early on on the r/s that a cloud would sometimes cross her face and she changed demeanour completely. We could go from having a very pleasant time to a dark place in an instant.

I think the most striking difference from a normal relationship is the black and white thinking. Nothing is just ok. Its either great or terrible there is no inbetween and it is exhausting. The lack of empathy too although this may also be there in a typical r/s. One of the most frustrating elements by far is the almost total lack of self awareness of a BPD sufferer. The ability to say the most hurtful things and then be completely unaware that they had even said it to the point of telling me how horrible i was being when i was just repeating what she had said back to her.

I have had a few break ups and they are never easy and people don't often cover themselves in glory in these moments but i am facebook friends with nearly all of my exes and good friends with one. The BPD ex has not just unfriended me bot blocked me and all of my family. It is a noticably different experience and as soon as i saw the BPD traits list it the last 2 years of my life finally made sense.

[MeandThee29]

I think the most striking difference from a normal relationship is the black and white thinking. Nothing is just ok. Its either great or terrible there is no inbetween and it is exhausting. The lack of empathy too although this may also be there in a typical r/s. One of the most frustrating elements by far is the almost total lack of self awareness of a BPD sufferer. The ability to say the most hurtful things and then be completely unaware that they had even said it to the point of telling me how horrible i was being when i was just repeating what she had said back to her.
sense.

I agree. That just blowed my mind.

Also the tallionic/vilification. If he truly loves me, why did he repeatedly treat me so badly and expect me to be loving in return? If he wants to reconcile, why does he burn bridges and take vindictive steps that drive to my core? I had some rough dating relationships including one that stalked me, and some that said some hurtful things when we broke up (of course). Even decades later, there are some that I exchange holiday cards with because we came to a place of peace. But nothing like this.

Also the smear campaign. He used his family to find yet more faults and dig into areas that never should have been in. His view became their view. I finally gave up trying to counter that. It's been interesting that my family in friends largely have refused to do that. They are more focused on supporting me than they are digging into his issues and trying to armchair analyze our marriage. Good counsellors/therapists of course do the same. They focus on you and your responses.

[Panda39]

What I've seen with my SO's uBPDxw is the same dysfunctional behaviors (in her case impulse control around money and keeping up appearances) repeating over and over and over and in repeating these patterns she hurts everyone around her most particularly herself.  Her behaviors are self destructive and she is stuck in wash, rinse, repeat.  I've only been on the scene 8 years, I know from my SO that it went on the entirety of their marriage and who knows how long before that.  Tie into this the inability to recognize her mental health is the issue.  She spends a lot of time on physical illness real and imagined, blaming much of her failed life on her physical health... .that's why she can't work, or drive, or whatever.  My SO's ex has also done some things to her children that are way out of the norm, I tell some stories and other people can't believe a mother would do such a thing.

So a consistent pattern of (the same) dysfunctional behavior
Destructive Behavior (and maybe the level of destructive behavior)
Self Destructive behavior
The inability to look at one's self as a possible cause of your own issues
Doing things that are completely out of the norm... .(sending your daughter to college and not paying for it putting daughter into thousands of dollars of debt, sending your other daughter to camp out of state on a one way ticket only to find out she's not at camp but staying with someone you don't know!)

Above to me are not normal behaviors when taken to the level that someone with BPD will take them.  Maybe that's the difference, the level to which someone with BPD will take things vs your average person.

Yes, we all have dysfunctional behaviors on some level but we can learn, grow and change because we can see the issues, acknowledge them, learn new approaches and change them.  Use our rational brains and emotional control.  A person with BPD could do this too but not without a lot of help and a lot of work.

Panda39

[Skip]

  What is the difference between a BPD relationship and just a "bad" relationship?

This is a hard question.

For example, black and white thinking is far more common than BPD. It is one of the 10 hallmarks of depression and, frankly, common among members here.

[1. All-or-nothing thinking - You see things in black-or-white categories. If a situation falls short of perfect, you see it as a total failure. When a young woman on a diet ate a spoonful of ice cream, she told herself, "I've blown my diet completely." This thought upset her so much that she gobbled down an entire quart of ice cream.

Lot's of bad things happen when relationship go bad. What is truly BPD pathology?

[Notwendy]

I think it is hard to know the boundary between a bad relationship and a BPD one because of the spectrum of behaviors associated with dysfunction in relationships. Someone may not meet full criteria for BPD and yet the relationship can have some of the same patterns with a partner who has enabling tendencies. In addition, other issues such as addiction can create similar relationship patterns without a partner having full BPD. I don't think all bad relationships are due to BPD but I think a lot of bad relationships can have similar patterns of dysfunction.

Perhaps the boundary is the diagnostic criteria for BPD. If one partner meets them then the BPD is playing a part in the bad relationship.

One of my criteria is the person taking victim perspective and making a reason out of something where there is no reason. In a bad relationship, someone may be acting in a hurtful way, such as cheating, or excessive spending due to their own choices- "I was attracted to this person, or I had some extra cash" In a BPD relationship- the pwBPD may be acting out of their own interpretation rather than acting out of the reality of the situation. " This person did this to me ( imagined)" and feels justified for doing the behavior - and doesn't assume responsibility. They base their actions on their perceived reality which may not be what actually happened.

[once removed]

Maybe that's the difference, the level to which someone with BPD will take things

i think thats the crux of it. there arent any "BPD behaviors" that are exclusive to BPD. even extremity itself isnt exclusive to BPD.

Perhaps the boundary is the diagnostic criteria for BPD.

this is a good place to start. for example while eating disorders and self mutilation (neither of which i experienced) arent exclusive to BPD, they are chronic issues that will play a role in a relationship, and are relatively rare even in the most dysfunctional relationships; they are two hallmarks/diagnostic criteria of BPD.

[JNChell]

Skip, this is difficult for me to answer, but here it goes.

The majority of my romantic relationships haven’t gone/ended well. One thing that immediately comes to mind is the abruptness of the end, and my partner immediately moving on. I’ve read here, and taken into consideration, that said partners may have already grieved the relationship at this point. But the act of moving on the day after breaking up before I was even able to move to a different residence in one case doesn’t fit that mold with me. The thing is, she showcased me in front of her ex before me when their breakup was fresh and they were still living together. I wasn’t really aware of the dynamic that still existed there, but looking back she showed me what would eventually happen to me.

An amicable end also comes to mind. It was a short lived relationship. 6 months, but the feelings and intimacy flourished quickly between us. The end came down to religion. She openly explained why she couldn’t move forward with me. I was sad. It hurt, but it wasn’t a traumatic experience. After the grieving period we were friends for a while. I hope that she’s doing well.

The thing is, I have to hold myself accountable here. I’m fairly recently diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. C-PTSD. I’m learning that I’ve had it since I was very young. If untreated, it gets worse over time. My disorder is triggered in certain situations. In a loving, calm and nurturing environment, I’m fine. In a high conflict environment, I’m not. Regardless of the two, it’s my responsibility to make sure I can handle life as it comes. I’m here and I have a wonderful therapist that is helping me with this.

I wish that I was able to express this better, but there is a philosophy that life is a circle. It says that we have to be the center point of our own circle. Remaining centered gives us balance. My career involves machine parts being perfectly centered. If they aren’t, the imbalance can literally shake the ground under our feet when a machine is turned on.

I like this topic. For me, personally, it comes down to me at the end of the day. I’ve had the ability to have control over my situation during my adult life, but I’ve looked for myself in romantic partners. Inward is freedom.

[Turkish]

I found out after our first kid that she was diagnosed with Depression,  and after the r/s with Anxiety (I dealt with the latter today with a co-parent situation). I'll leave aside that and her comments about feeling "empty" after telling me she didn't know why she felt so because she had everything she'd ever wanted.

In the beginning it was this:

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder

She often told me she had trouble controlling her emotions.  This was the WOE feeling I had very early on.  I remember thinking "a relationship shouldn't be this difficult." I talked to many people in my life about it including a woman I trusted.  She continually refused to try mood stabilizing drugs her T suggested. In part I don't blame her.  When they started my mom on Prozac,  she got worse and stormed into my room to have me hide the bottle from her because she hated how Prozac made her feel. Parentification; she could have thrown them out and not involved me. That was 1989.

Shortly after my ex and I cohabitated, she got mad at me for using the dryer's timed setting instead of the moisture sensor setting on my own laundry.  By this point in life I'd been doing my own laundry at laundromats for 24 years (since I was 12). She said "you know what pisses me off so don't do it!" I never could anticipate the trigger but to this day I use the moisture sensor  

Interestingly,  when she was living with us for four months living her double life with her paramour until she could move out she told me that her beau had noticed her anger and asked her about it.  I didn't continue that conversation  (I don't remember what prompted her to tell me that), but I thought "poor bastid; there's a reckoning for all of that love and attention.  A couple of years later it ended up with the cops called on him and him being hog tied and beaten by the cops,  DV (mostly mutual but she was the primary aggressor). The kids also told me the horribly demeaning things that she said to him in front of them, worse things than she ever said to me.  Being that verbally abusive in front of little kids indicates... .something amiss.

A buddy and I were discussing people we'd observed over the years including his dad and step mom (multiple police calls which we were there for). We agreed stuff like that isn't normal.  

[gotbushels]

What is the difference between normal difficult behavior, which can be situational, and chronic mental illness?

An example of normal difficult behaviour could be when two people have different wants, and then work toward a course of action that is mutually beneficial.

For example if I want to stay home on a given day, but my partner wants to have dinner with other family members--then reaching that compromise could be difficult. Sure, how boring--it's not "deworming orphans in Africa" but I think sometimes relationships can be just that chronically simple. Then if you want, you can increase the difficulty if one of us had a really hard week at work, have strong wants to do other things, etc.

For example of chronic mental illness--rather than taking a different example--I think it's useful to look at the same example, but with my thoughts as a non.

• I want to stay home--but BP may lay in bed for 3 hours and throw a dysregulation ("normal" in the relationship).
• My partner wants to have dinner with other family members--but is she meeting ex after, when does it end, do I have work tomorrow, is she calendared for dysregulation today ("normal" in the relationship), how much emotional gas do I have in my tank today.
• Compromise?--I feel my needs don't matter anyway, my needs actually 'harm' me, when I attempt to advocate for them she'll probably dysregulate and go to (1) men or (2) substances ("normal" in the relationship), remember that time when she slapped me for sleeping from exhaustion.
  
• Oh and planning in advance with a reliable follow-up?--what is happening!, what will the tantrum look like if this succeeds, what will the tantrum look like if it doesn't (both "normal" in the relationship); what were the management methods for them; this is a new animal, new animals coincide with 3rd party issues, so has she met another 3rd party?
  

I want to highlight that its entirely possible to have a relationship where you have the basic issue, but with not a single one of the WOE (thanks Turkish) thoughts in with-BPD example. And if you're so blessed, your partner will be emotionally stable, healthy, secure, attractive, whatever.

I want to highlight that this example shows what the work looks like in a relationship with a BPD as the caretaker. All those extra things you have to think through to be the effective caretaker is all extra work. Then I share the hope, that a relationship without any of that absurd overtime is possible.



An easier comparison of examples is this.

In a relationship without a BPD, I may not get almost any of the 'typical' dysregulation patterns (e.g., push-pull, no-win, or projection) as the basis for conflict. I may get some anxiety, some avoidant things, but, e.g., if the total traits for both people come out to 80% secure, 10% avoidant, 10% anxious--then it's probably you'll have 2/10 issues being by non-secure factors.

In a relationship with a BPD--taking just one example--I could get "no win game" styled fights regularly in the week. To me that signals chronic mental illness.