Dating part 4 – O well, I guess by now it’s called a relationship

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hello everyone,

May I ask a little input of you please ?
My new boyfriend and I have been together for some months now. At first I was terrified he’d turn out to be BPD/NPD (I have a history with that). After some time, it was my abandonment fears starting to kick in massively. Like, expecting him to answer my messages quickly, etc. I didn’t always tell him about it, but since we are quite close and I want to be honest, sometimes he was aware.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327894.msg12989835#msg12989835

I have calmed down a little. I have started to enjoy the time we spend together. That doesn’t mean everything is problemless, on the contrary actually. We do both have our history and our personalities at play. But we are both putting in efforts, and it’s good to see that despite my quirks, he still hasn’t  run away. That has calmed me down a lot.
So, most of the time it’s all good inside my head. But … I do notice that my brain does look for exit strategies ... .F.e. at times when I think he doesn’t show enough affection / empathy, I start fearing again he’s NPD, etc. Most of the times I can keep it for myself but sometimes I do get emotional towards him, too – I will try to give an example. Some days ago I had a IUD implanted.  He was with me at the doctors, was supportive, had bought my favorite chips to comfort me, drove me home, stayed a little and messaged me some hours after to ask if I was ok. It felt really sweet (and really apart from some minor pains I was totally ok). So far so good. Only ... the next day I was so childish to feel he should message me about it again, but he didn’t. We were supposed to meet at night, so maybe he’d ask me than, I thought. Or maybe he’d just see himself that I was alright. Thing is, I started to have this feeling of ‘why doesn’t he care ?’. It’s not the first time I start feeling like that when I notice less empathy than I expect him to show. At first, it’s just a little voice inside my head, and I’m able to overrule it by telling myself ‘don’t exaggerate, no one is perfect and he never puts expectations on you like that, so why do you. You are not little Fie anymore’. But than this little voice grows and sometimes up to the point that I take the step to go talk to my boyfriend about it. Well, talk, blame is more the word. I have even considered leaving the relationship altogether, only realizing the next day or so that I actually do love him.

Thing is ... while I am into this ‘blaming mode’, I really fear he’s NPD. I can be very empathic myself (sometimes too much ?), so I guess I am taking my empathy level to judge him against. But is that fair ? How do I see him as he is (maybe less empathic than average ?) and how do I stop putting those expectations on him ? How do I stop fearing he has a personality disorder or doesn’t care about me ?  Or does this really sound like NPD ?  :-P   Or do I just sound BPD now ?  :-p

[Fie]

Hello everyone,

May I ask a little input of you please ?
My new boyfriend and I have been together for some months now. At first I was terrified he’d turn out to be BPD/NPD (I have a history with that). After some time, it was my abandonment fears starting to kick in massively. Like, expecting him to answer my messages quickly, etc. I didn’t always tell him about it, but since we are quite close and I want to be honest, sometimes he was aware.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327894.msg12989835#msg12989835

I have calmed down a little. I have started to enjoy the time we spend together. That doesn’t mean everything is problemless, on the contrary actually. We do both have our history and our personalities at play. But we are both putting in efforts, and it’s good to see that despite my quirks, he still hasn’t  run away. That has calmed me down a lot.
So, most of the time it’s all good inside my head. But … I do notice that my brain does look for exit strategies ... .F.e. at times when I think he doesn’t show enough affection / empathy, I start fearing again he’s NPD, etc. Most of the times I can keep it for myself but sometimes I do get emotional towards him, too – I will try to give an example. Some days ago I had a IUD implanted.  He was with me at the doctors, was supportive, had bought my favorite chips to comfort me, drove me home, stayed a little and messaged me some hours after to ask if I was ok. It felt really sweet (and really apart from some minor pains I was totally ok). So far so good. Only ... the next day I was so childish to feel he should message me about it again, but he didn’t. We were supposed to meet at night, so maybe he’d ask me than, I thought. Or maybe he’d just see himself that I was alright. Thing is, I started to have this feeling of ‘why doesn’t he care ?’. It’s not the first time I start feeling like that when I notice less empathy than I expect him to show. At first, it’s just a little voice inside my head, and I’m able to overrule it by telling myself ‘don’t exaggerate, no one is perfect and he never puts expectations on you like that, so why do you. You are not little Fie anymore’. But than this little voice grows and sometimes up to the point that I take the step to go talk to my boyfriend about it. Well, talk, blame is more the word. I have even considered leaving the relationship altogether, only realizing the next day or so that I actually do love him.

Thing is ... while I am into this ‘blaming mode’, I really fear he’s NPD. I can be very empathic myself (sometimes too much ?), so I guess I am taking my empathy level to judge him against. But is that fair ? How do I see him as he is (maybe less empathic than average ?) and how do I stop putting those expectations on him ? How do I stop fearing he has a personality disorder or doesn’t care about me ?  Or does this really sound like NPD ?  :-P   Or do I just sound BPD now ?  :-p

[Learning2Thrive]

 

Thing is ... while I am into this ‘blaming mode’, I really fear he’s NPD. I can be very empathic myself (sometimes too much ?), so I guess I am taking my empathy level to judge him against. But is that fair ? How do I see him as he is (maybe less empathic than average ?) and how do I stop putting those expectations on him ? How do I stop fearing he has a personality disorder or doesn’t care about me ?  Or does this really sound like NPD ?  :-P   Or do I just sound BPD now ?  :-p

Fie,

I’ve hesitated in my reply because I haven’t felt comfortable sharing very much about my current situation with my husband, but I think this may be a good place.

In short, I came here many years ago after my choice to participate in an affair with a BPD woman blew my world apart. I had been married to my husband (not BPD but damaged and emotionally limited) for about 13 years at that point. I moved out of my home and lived in an apartment for a year (and went back to the home often to care for him, our teen/preteen sons and my/our business) and I fully intended and planned to divorce my husband. He begged me to reconsider. I took that opportunity to start looking at myself and all the pain that brought me to that point and focus on healing me. My husband was satisfied with that. I have been back in the house for over 5 years now (and have zero interest in having a relationship with anyone else). I’m learning to love and care for myself now... .so I can really be a better, healthier person to everyone who is part of my life.

I often ask myself the same questions you have posed above. My husband is not BPD, but his father had heavy NPD traits. So when issues arise, I seriously wonder if he isn’t displaying some fleas from his dad.

I think, the best you can do is take a deep breath and give yourself some time and space. Ask yourself if you are being triggered into an emotional flashback from your past. If so, call it out by name and spend the time to process it. Then, check your boundaries. Are you being true to your values? If not, what do you need to do to adjust?

I’m not sure if this is helpful, but these are some of the things I am doing and they are working pretty well for me.

Most of all, be sure you are giving yourself lots of healthy self-care.  And we are here for you. We can listen and support and brainstorm.

  L2T

[Turkish]

I have even considered leaving the relationship altogether, only realizing the next day or so that I actually do love him.

It sounds like you are scared. If so,  what scares you?

[1stTimer]

Hello everyone,
Most of the times I can keep it for myself but sometimes I do get emotional towards him, too – I will try to give an example. Some days ago I had a IUD implanted.  He was with me at the doctors, was supportive, had bought my favorite chips to comfort me, drove me home, stayed a little and messaged me some hours after to ask if I was ok. It felt really sweet (and really apart from some minor pains I was totally ok). So far so good. Only ... the next day I was so childish to feel he should message me about it again, but he didn’t. We were supposed to meet at night, so maybe he’d ask me than, I thought. Or maybe he’d just see himself that I was alright. Thing is, I started to have this feeling of ‘why doesn’t he care ?’

Thing is ... while I am into this ‘blaming mode’, I really fear he’s NPD.

Hi Fie, this post really spoke to me as a guy who experienced the other end of this. I don't, from your brief description here at least, see NPD behavior in the least. But I totally get how if you experienced that in your past relationships, both family and romantic, you'd be hypersensitive to the possibility of it.

I can tell you a story as a non NPD man dating what turned out to be a like BPD woman: I was just starting to date this girl (cautiously coming around) who kept putting up 'tests' to see if I really cared. She got the flu one night and was telling me her mother said she might need to go the ER. This was during that very deadly flu last winter. Not something anyone would want to be exposed to.

In any event first I offered to bring by medicine, food, call an Uber for her to ER, finally I offered (Sunday midnight, dead of winter) to come pick her quite contagious self up and take her to the ER. Last thing in the world I wanted to do for the aforementioned reasons and I've spent the better part of ten+ years in ERs with first my dying father and then my mother's various travails (broken arm, broken leg, pneumonia, etc) and the last thing I needed was a reminder and a midnight to 8am stay with her with a 100 hour work week coming up. But I offered. She was very happy I did and said she was better however. I worked the next day and she, like you, got mad at me for not following up the next day. She told me I didn't care about her and if i did I would have offered to come take care of her. This is the next day. Now honestly if she had been sweet about the prior day and gently said 'hey you big jerk (smile) you never came and took care of me!" I'd have smiled and let it go and made a mental note for next time, but to invalidate the huge effort I'd offered to make, putting my own self at risk to catch the damn killer flu really pissed me off. And it made me wonder who really had the lack of empathy here.

So perhaps in your case if you can/could find a way to utterly validate and appreciate what he did do and find a way to gently let him know how much a follow-up would be you could encourage even MORE of what he is clearly giving to you freely and willingly.

In some cases though it can start to feel like no matter what you do for some women (people) it isn't about what you do, it is a trap to see what you don't do and that is not a cycle you want to get into. For instance if the next day he followed-up but didn't follow-up right or on time or the right way or the right words. If that becomes the dynamic then you have to consider that it is not validation that he is NOT NPD you are looking for but validaition that he is. An AHA moment if you will. There is an old joke my dad used to tell that reminds me of being in that dynamic;

Momma and Poppa and Baby Turtle decide to go for a picnic. Being turtles it takes hours to get to the picnic spot and set-up. Momma turtle notices there is no mayo which she loves and asked Baby Turtle to go back and get it. He says 'no way, you'll start without me!' They say 'of course not we love you we just want some mayo'. They go back and forth, he is sure they will start without me but finally they convince him and he grudgingly goes. They wait. And they wait some more. It becomes later afternoon, then evening, then the next morning and still they wait. Because they promised. Finally that next afternoon when Baby Turtle is still not back Momma Turtle says 'Poppa Turtle let's just take a small bite I am so hungry and it has been two days!' So they reach for the sandwhiches and all of a sudden Baby Turtle pops out from behind a bush where he was waiting and yells "AHA! I KNEW you'd start without me!".

Clearly, my Dad had a lot of really bad jokes in his aresnal but there is such a grain of truth in that joke that I've always remembered it and it occurs to me when women I date like that girl recently do this. So I need to figure out when it is a valid 'it would really mean a lot of you did ABC' vs just endlessly raising the bar.  And I'm thinking perhaps you need to figure out yourself if you're just wanting a little more TLC or you are hiding behind a bush waiting for him to start without you... .

[Harri]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329677.0;all

Hi Fie.  The above thread was actually started by 1stTimer and I think what is talked about there might help you sort things out.  Maybe more importantly, Skip offers tools and a way of looking at things that I think would be applicable for your situation, just as they are for 1stTimer. 

Check it out. 

 

[Fie]

Thanks, friends  

Learning2Thrive, thanks for your trust and openness to tell your story. Your answer made me feel accepted. When I posted, I wasn't sure if what I wrote wasn't going to sound ridiculous and trivial... A lot of people on here are worse off than me. I am in a much better place than I used to be. Oftentimes I do struggle with my emotions though ... .

Hey Turkish, I guess I'm scared yes, maybe scared to open my heart too much only to find myself alone again afterwards ... ?

1stTimer, thanks. Thanks for telling me about your experience. And the turtle tale. It made me laugh out loud. But ... point taken.

And I'm thinking perhaps you need to figure out yourself if you're just wanting a little more TLC or you are hiding behind a bush waiting for him to start without you... .

If I'm honest, my gut reaction is that I am behind a bush waiting for him to start without me.  I am behaving like the little turtle. It also makes me think back about another relationship I had, some 20 years ago (yes I am growing older :-p). I was also behaving like the little turtle there, a lot more than I am now, but I see the analogy now.  I guess this is how feeling close to someone is making me act... Maybe I need to become aware of this. It's difficult though, because in between I had some really bad relationships with BPD/NPD, and this does bring out the little turtle in me in this new relationship.

Thanks so much for this. I needed this reality check.

Harri    I read the other post and I like the wave / horse analogy 1stTimer is making. This is something I will try out.

[Learning2Thrive]

Fie wrote:

Learning2Thrive, thanks for your trust and openness to tell your story. Your answer made me feel accepted. When I posted, I wasn't sure if what I wrote wasn't going to sound ridiculous and trivial... A lot of people on here are worse off than me. I am in a much better place than I used to be. Oftentimes I do struggle with my emotions though ... .

Dearest Fie, you are so worthy of acceptance.   We will always be able to find someone worse off than ourselves, please do not minimize you pain and struggles. They are worthy of the work towards healing.

I also struggle with emotions at times... .and I have often minimized my own  pain and suffering in order to help or rescue someone else who is (in my mind) worse off. Have you ever done that?  Awareness is the first step toward healing.

  L2T

[Fie]

Hello friends  


I am trying my best not to be the little turtle.

It's hard. Most of the time it's working. But yesterday, I confronted my boyfriend with something that has been bugging me for a while.

+10 years ago, my boyfriend split up with a woman he had had a relationship with for about 2 years. She's since than +10 years married, my boyfriend was her best man. Her husband is fine with everything and the family (they have 2 children) invites my bf for dinner every sunday evening.
The children adore my boyfriend, who's like an uncle to them.

Boyfriend asked me to join him next time he's visiting.
I don't want to be childish. I 100% trust him, he's honest in everything and claims he's just very good friends with her, nothing else. But still ... .I said hmm, I don't know if I want to join you, why her ? Why not visit other friends of you first ? (I haven't met any of his friends)
We talked about it, he said, well, since I've been knowing you, I only visit once every 2 weeks or so, and why don't you believe that we are just friends.

Thing is ... I *do* believe it. But what if the ex has a relationship crisit at one point ? My bf was the one to break up with her all those years ago.
And even without the possibility of her trying to win him back ... it just doens't feel right. But why not ? Am I too jealous ? I can hardly expect him to break with his two 'nephews'... .
He asked me, yesterday, 'If I understand you correctly, you want  me to stop going there ?'  I didn't give him a clear answer. I said : 'I love you and I want you to be happy and content'. I meant 'Yes, I want  you to stop going'. He's not stupid. I could have said : 'no, don't worry'.

He has an enormous amount of trust in me and is not jealous in the least. Some weeks ago a (male) friend stayed over. I told my bf not to worry, that the friend was sleeping in the spare room. His answer : 'I don't worry over thing like that, even if you were sleeping in the same bed ... .I just assume you would behave, I trust you.' Ok, I must say, receiving this amount of trust feels like a gift ... .it's very refreshing after my NPD relationship, where I was always suspected to look at other men, ... .(I didn't). But taking my trust in him up to this same level, is impossible.

How do I handle this ... ? Am I exagerating in my mistrust ? Am I going to loose him if I make him choose ? (And really, do I want to be someone who makes people choose and goes forcing things upon people) ? Any insights ?

[Insom]

First of all, kudos to your boyfriend for navigating a post-romantic relationship with his ex.  It sounds like she and her family are important people in his social network so it makes sense he'd want to introduce you to that part of his life. 

I don't want to be childish. I 100% trust him, he's honest in everything and claims he's just very good friends with her, nothing else.

. . . it just doens't feel right. But why not ? Am I too jealous ?

Would it be fair to say that while you very much want to trust your new boyfriend, on some level you just don't?







 

[Insom]

Also, I tend to agree with 1stTimer.  None of the behaviors you've described here sound NPD to me (though I'm no expert). 

[Turkish]

Such a situation would feel weird to me.  The way you describe it though doesn't sound like anything's going on. 

[1stTimer]

He asked me, yesterday, 'If I understand you correctly, you want  me to stop going there ?'  I didn't give him a clear answer. I said : 'I love you and I want you to be happy and content'. I meant 'Yes, I want  you to stop going'. He's not stupid. I could have said : 'no, don't worry'

Ok let me point two things out here; one he is not 'forcing you to choose' he asked for clarity on what you want. He didn't say anything one way or the other on either answer you give. But then you didn't give him a clear answer. The thing is if I heard your answer, as ambiguous as it sounded, at the end of the day it is "No I don't want you to stop if it makes you happy and content". Unless you meant "I want you to be happy and content and the only way to do that is to make me happy and contet by not going there and not making me ask you to not go there". I'm guessing the read was supposed to be something like that? And that would be a very hard read indeed.

Could you be happy with a compromise where he sees here and you learn to handle being uneasy about it and maybe eventually walk away from the rock and go get the mayo? If you remember the joke I mean maybe start out hiding behind the rock and as you see there is nothing to worry about slowly trust that things are ok and walk away? And then tell him "I understand you are friends with her and trust you to see her. But please understand it would be hard for me to be with the two of you together". That way you extend him trust (and you can't actually really trust people until you give them the space to earn it and then learn to actually trust) which he'll appreciate and he'd also respect that you don't want to join in. That seems to me at least a very fair and adult way to move forward with this. What do you think?

[Fie]

Unless you meant "I want you to be happy and content and the only way to do that is to make me happy and contet by not going there and not making me ask you to not go there". I'm guessing the read was supposed to be something like that? And that would be a very hard read indeed.

Hmm, well, it was not really supposed to be that ... I gave him my political correct answer. The answer I knew I *should* give. Not the one I really wanted to give.

Your compromise sounds good. I think I might use it. Or maybe I will eventually meet her one day, I don't know. Just not now.

There is a little update, too. He was babysitting her children on thursday night and has told her he will visit 'less often', because I feel uncomfortable with him going there a lot.  

That's fair enough for me. It's more than fair. I feel loved and respected and I am so happy I didn't try to control him and tell him what to do.

I feel grateful, also for the input I got here. You all feel like my family, a safehaven where I can come when I feel emotional and confused.