Deescalating HCP when children are present

[CoherentMoose]

Hello.
As mentioned in another post, a dear friend is preparing to leave her husband who exhibits many HCP traits. One of them in particular is severe separation anxiety. My friends greatest fear is being "ambushed" by her husband when she has the children with her. Her kids are 5 and 9 years old. Any personal contact with her husband after she moves out will become very emotional. She is learning to grey rock, but he will be emotional.

Do any of you have any advice on words/actions she can take to attempt deescalating the situation? It's likely he will be present at some point when she takes the kids to school. I've suggested acknowledging to him that she knows he is understandably upset, but she will not discuss anything with him while the kids are near and to please let her take the kids to school. Then proceed to take the kids to school. The hard part will be when he calls to the kids. Or stops her from proceeding. Should she then let the kids go to him and tell him to "take the kids to school" and walk away? Provided, of course, she assess he is emotionally stable enough to be able to manage that.

You can see where that situation could degrade quickly. How can she calm him down? Reduce his flooding?

She wants him to participate fully with parenting, and will tell him in the "I'm Leaving and Divorcing" letter that she wants an interim custody exchange process where they do not meet with the kids present. She will propose that anytime he wants to see the kids, she will drop them off at school and he can pick them up that afternoon for a night (or two). She is going to make it clear the only communications path will be through email. All planned custody exchanges will be coordinated in writing through email.

At some point, she may need a RO, but she fervently hopes that won't be necessary.

I'm asking for some group "flexible thinking" options she can try to lower his emotions so she can get the kids away from the emotion.

Thank you.
jdc

[Radcliff]

These are extremely tough situations to advise members in, since they have to work hard to provide us as much context as possible, we give our best advice, and then the real situation moves fast and in ways not completely anticipated online, so the member has to make difficult decisions on the fly.  When we ask for advice for a friend, it adds another layer of indirection, making it even more difficult to provide good advice.  Have you encouraged your friend to come to bpdfamily and post for herself?

I have been in your shoes, wanting to help a friend in a similar situation, and it can get tricky.  There's a strong potential for you to be cast as the "rescuer" in a Karpman Drama Triangle.  If she were to start a membership here, that would allow her to own her situation more, get her more effective support, and allow you to be an encouraging friend rather than a problem solver.  Does that make sense?

RC

[CoherentMoose]

"These are extremely tough situations to advise members in, since they have to work hard to provide us as much context as possible, we give our best advice, and then the real situation moves fast and in ways not completely anticipated online, so the member has to make difficult decisions on the fly.  When we ask for advice for a friend, it adds another layer of indirection, making it even more difficult to provide good advice.  Have you encouraged your friend to come to bpdfamily and post for herself?"

Yes, I've asked her to join. I'm hopeful she will take advantage of the forum once she's out. If this is inappropriate, then please remove the thread. Thanks. jdc

[Radcliff]

Yes, I've asked her to join.

That's great to hear!  Glad you're looking out for your friend and have found this place useful enough to recommend.

Did the part about rescuing and triangulation make sense?  I don't mean to discourage you from helping your friend, just step carefully.  It can get complicated even when we're being careful.

RC

[CoherentMoose]

That's great to hear!  Glad you're looking out for your friend and have found this place useful enough to recommend.

Did the part about rescuing and triangulation make sense?  I don't mean to discourage you from helping your friend, just step carefully.  It can get complicated even when we're being careful.

RC

RC, yes it certainly did, and thank you for the pointer. It was timely and effective. I told her today it's her deal and she agreed. My support going forward will be to suggest she join the forum rather than reading and searching in here for similar situations. Thanks again. Be well. jdc

[formflier]

Interesting thread.  How is your friend doing?

This thread is, in a way, about how to best advise others with HCP.

I see a "strategic error" that was being evaluated.  

The goal of the interaction should NOT be to calm another person or manage their emotions.  The goal should be to protect the lady and the kids.  

Said another way, let people manage their own emotions, advise the lady to protect her interests.   (very broad advice).

Then... .let advice flow from there.

Think about the advice of giving up kids and letting him take them to school.  On the face of it... .it seems pragmatic.  Yet at the core of it "I'm going to do this for you so you will behave properly... "

So... what happens next time when you CAN'T give up kids?  

Shift advice to "Oh... I've encountered an unstable person and I'm going to do this to protect myself and my children... "

That leads to next time the HCP thinking... "Wow... that person doesn't take any guff from me... ." instead of "I'll act mean and get what I want... ."

Again... nuance can matter so when advising each other on how to advise others, best to stay in the "broad" sense of things... .vice details where nuance can be lost.

Best of luck to your friend... .hope they join.

FF

[CoherentMoose]

Interesting thread.  How is your friend doing?

This thread is, in a way, about how to best advise others with HCP. I see a "strategic error" that was being evaluated.  The goal of the interaction should NOT be to calm another person or manage their emotions.  The goal should be to protect the lady and the kids.  Said another way, let people manage their own emotions, advise the lady to protect her interests.   (very broad advice).

Then... .let advice flow from there.

Think about the advice of giving up kids and letting him take them to school.  On the face of it... .it seems pragmatic.  Yet at the core of it "I'm going to do this for you so you will behave properly... "

So... what happens next time when you CAN'T give up kids?  Shift advice to "Oh... I've encountered an unstable person and I'm going to do this to protect myself and my children... "

That leads to next time the HCP thinking... "Wow... that person doesn't take any guff from me... ." instead of "I'll act mean and get what I want... ."
Again... nuance can matter so when advising each other on how to advise others, best to stay in the "broad" sense of things... .vice details where nuance can be lost.
Best of luck to your friend... .hope they join.

FF

Hello. My friend is proceeding with her plan. Her anxiety level is increasing as her leave day approaches. I sincerely hope she joins and participates because I think she's done a great job planning and preparing for her detachment and divorce. I believe her story would be beneficial to others and I'm confident she would benefit from all the help in here as her journey continues into the next phase.   

Good point FF on "rewarding" bad behavior by giving up the kids if confronted. I've removed myself from giving advice unless asked a direct question, and even then I see myself pointing her to this form for a better set of responses. Thank you for taking the time to respond. jdc