Spouse and Family

[jrob4769]

I have been married to my wife for 16 years.  I learned very early in our marriage that she had outbursts of irrational anger over things I never thought twice about, but never associated with a "personality disorder."  She would blow up, a few days later settle back into life and we could live a while normally, then another blowup would happen and the cycle repeated.  After about 3 or 4 years of marriage I discovered I was not going to be leaving this cycle and I didn't really know how to handle my situation.

Now 14 years later, the blow up has finally hit so close to home with immediate family, I am afraid there may not be a solution.  My wife has not been diagnosed clinically with BPD, but 2 counselors she has seen at our church agree she presents as a classic BPD.  We have done couples counseling since May and it is one of those situations where she loves her victimhood and doesn't think she has any issue, per se, in this instance.  She thinks it is simply a mother-in-law who spoke out of line to her and was rude and hateful, yet she reacted and blew up and ruptured into a rage to convey her feelings back to my mother, and now is depressed that the relationship is broken down with my family and is hurt that my family doesn't reach out to her.

This time it is different.  Rather than the cycle running it's course, this time the anger and inability to forgive and live are approaching 6 months.  She is triggered into a depression and shame I have never seen.

Her situation is compounded by illness and a childhood filled with abuse and dysfunction.  She has ulcerative colitis, which I am convinced is stress induced through her behavior and inability to cope well with life, and she was diagnosed with CLL this summer, chronic lymphocytic leukemia, which currently requires no treatment.  She struggles with a couple of sexual abuse incidents, abandonment, etc. from childhood.  Sadly, she is a mess, however she is one of the most loving people one would ever meet and I do love this woman and want her to be better.

Because of her outburst with my mother and there being no communication, she now is compounding her feelings of my family with no acknowledgment of her leukemia and viewing them as monsters.  Rather than understanding her irrational angry outburst has pushed my family back, she considers them the most horrible people alive.  She knows this is not who they are but lives the irrational thoughts about them continuously.  And I have been the recipient of unending emotional abuse from the fallout.  I get blamed for stuff I have no control over.

I'm not sure I am in the right place to seek advice and opinion, but because I have been told by counselors she lives a BPD life, I am here.

My family does not understand the challenges of BPD and since we don't have a clinical diagnosis it is hard to explain to them we are working on improving symptoms rather than assigning a label to it.  I have been told labeling can cause the BPD person to give up because there is something "wrong" they can't fix.

My questions about family interaction are as follows:
1.  I currently cannot keep her from obsessing over upcoming holidays.  When there is unresolved conflict, is it possible for a BPD to go into a room and not lose it in anger?
2.  How do I tell family members their silence is more damaging to my wife than even some level of uneasy communicating would afford?
3.  When I recommend things like articles, encouraging sermons, further counseling, etc. and she tells me "stop trying to fix me", what is my next step in coping?

I have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and see my wife on a lot of the pages.  I was hoping to find more examples of response, but found it lacking to a degree.  It's great at explaining what it is and defining it, but I didn't feel it sufficiently addressed situational solutions in conversation, boundaries, etc.  Can anyone recommend a deeper resource for this type material?

For the first time today, I was able to tell her I understood completely where her pain and hurt is rooted and that I will not allow her anymore to turn her triggered feelings back onto me as anger.  I told her I am not taking responsibility for her misplaced reactions.  I told her she needed to try to look at her triggers more closely and rather than spewing the negative feelings outward and causing unhealthy relationships, she should try to learn to respond differently to the triggers and know the person who accidently said the "wrong thing" is actually not an enemy to her.

I know this is a lifelong struggle, but I don't feel like I'm on the winning side right now.  I don't want to divorce, but she has said if she can't get past her insecure feelings with my family, we can resign ourselves to separate.  This to me is horrible and not something I desire.

I'm sorry if I am in the wrong forum, but thanks to all for considering my plight and offering counsel.  I can answer questions to clarify anything if need be.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi jrob769, and welcome. You are NOT in the wrong forum but absolutely the right place.

It hurts my heart to read your story because ther with minee is so much crossover. It is a VERY common story here on the boards in terms of the FOO conflict (family of origin). I had a similar incident in 2016 and am still recovering.

We can address your three questions here in detail, as these are deep issues that will take a lot of discussion. In the meantime I suggest you check out the workshops to the right   and post on other members' threads to gain context.

To get the ball rolling, please share a bit more about your wife's history with you FOO and how you have described the BPD situation to your family. What was their reaction? Do you have children, separately or together?

Sending you strength,
RolandOfEld

[jrob4769]

Thank you for the response.

I will try to become more involved in other posts and workshops here as well.

My wife's history:

Concerning FOO, because my wife had such dysfunction in her own family, she idolized my family for it's stability.  She has adored my mother from day one, but yet from time to time, complained to me about something "your mother said... ." that she took as a personal attack.  To me her obsession with simple comments always came across to me as irrational.  For instance, shortly after we married we had to move contents from her mother's home to ours and had to store much of it in a garage.  When my Mom saw the garage on a visit to our home and saw the stuff, she made an observational comment about how much stuff was in there and wondered what we were going to do with it.  My wife took that to be a judgmental statement and has held onto that comment for years and includes it in her complaint when she feels "wronged" by the FOO.  She cannot let go of everyday comments and they haunt her mind continually, yet she still has always gone the extra mile to "love them".  My wife feels she doesn't live up to the "standard" of my family, although no one has ever set a standard.  I tend to think my wife's pain is more related to childhood trauma and dysfunction than BPD, however, the irrationality of it all shows me there is a link.  Historically, only she and I deal with the comments of the FOO in our marriage because once they are gone and she has had time to consider the conversations, the blow up usually occurs afterwards and I deal with it for the next few days and fortunately haven't had to convey the irrationality back to them.

We do not have children.  She was unable to conceive and we married when she was 39.  It was her first marriage, my second.  I am 6 years younger than her.

Not until this year and upon the counsel of our couples therapist did I even know what BPD was.  I am sure my description to my family has been inadequate in properly describing the complexities of what I am dealing with, and I am still not 100% certain.  While I may have been able to tell them this is a disorder and we are working on symptoms, they are staying back and not engaging because they see her explode and do not want her to use them as a reason to explode.  In other words, they think they are protecting me.  Their silence actually is making my life worse with my wife.  When they don't engage, she gets to create the irrational narrative of something being wrong with her, they hate her, they never liked her, etc. etc. etc. and has fallen into deep depression.  She claims I have sided with the FOO, she can't trust me, and has lost her emotional connection to me, yet I haven't left her and am the only stable person in her life.

It feels like we are at a place where she can't change her pattern of thinking and can't recover.  Some days I think we need to come to some sort of dissolution of our marriage so she doesn't have to be tortured with her irrationality of my family, but I know it will not change her outlook either way.  I also know I have to make choices for myself.  If she won't try to find the end of her irrationality and understand the FOO is not an enemy, I find it very difficult to live a healthy life daily enduring this turmoil.  Due to my faith I want to do the God honoring thing and love her and also honor my parents.  When I do those things as best I can, she sees a division rather than a unity of family.

[RolandOfEld]

I am sure my description to my family has been inadequate in properly describing the complexities of what I am dealing with, and I am still not 100% certain.  While I may have been able to tell them this is a disorder and we are working on symptoms, they are staying back and not engaging because they see her explode and do not want her to use them as a reason to explode.  In other words, they think they are protecting me.  Their silence actually is making my life worse with my wife.  When they don't engage, she gets to create the irrational narrative of something being wrong with her, they hate her, they never liked her, etc. etc. etc. and has fallen into deep depression.  She claims I have sided with the FOO, she can't trust me, and has lost her emotional connection to me, yet I haven't left her and am the only stable person in her life.

I think one of the most important things when communicating to FOO about BPD is messaging. In addition to sharing some online materials, I tried to explain to my family the complexities of the disorder and made sure we were talking about an illness and not "all the terrible things she has done to me". I also spooled describing the incidents out slowly over a period of time so that it wasn't all these scary stories at once for them.

My suggestion is that you yourself initiate engagement at timing that works for you. Perhaps its when your wife is out, or you are at work. It's probably just as well you don't get random calls from your family during your wife's dysregulated periods that can trigger her. You have to see that this is not ordinary conflict between spouse and FOO that can be resolved, since as you said your family's very nature triggers your wife due to her own deep wounds with family. My wife lost both her parents, so its no wonder she might resent me for still having one along with more family members.

Like you said, you have to make choices for yourself. I choose when to call my family, and I know sometimes its going to bring the roof down on my head. And I know it may form a deal breaker in my marriage. 

If she won't try to find the end of her irrationality and understand the FOO is not an enemy, I find it very difficult to live a healthy life daily enduring this turmoil.

It's good you've clearly identified your needs and boundaries here. How do you see the likelihood of her moving past this issue? Are there other deal-breaking issues in your relationship right now?

~ROE

[Serenitywithin]

JrOB...

This could not sound any more like what I have been going through now for one year and 3 weeks... .

My wife had a baby last July30, Then in September My mother tried to have a conversation with her about how she talks to the kids. The kids had been telling my mother and grandmother about the things that Amy would rage about and the types of things she was saying to them when i am not home.  She also adored my family and my mother specifically up to this point, but my mom maid the mistake of saying When your raised the way you have said you were some things have an eefect on you ... .My wife came home crying saying my mother yelled at her and that she hated her and that she did not want our kids going over there for a while. My sister was home when this happened and told me a different story completey about hows Amy came in tha house to pick up the baby and was already crying about something and then jsut started going off on mom about how she knows they dont like how she talks to the kids but hat people do things differently and then when mom tried to calm her down she grabbed hte baby and left.

This started this year long vendetta bout my family is bad and they have never accepted her and never done anythign for her, when they have helped raise the kids and bought her all kinds of stuff paid for us to go to my sisters wedding out of the country... ETC ETC ETC... She has said how great they are in one sentance and then slams them in the next and it makes zero rational sense. We have 4 children and the oldest is already noticed that mommy does not make sense and has told me that her mom makes her feel like she is crazy sometimes. This last year my BP has become a problem I went to ER in Decmeber of 17 becasue I thought I was having a heart attack(on the night I explained to her thatI thought she might have been Bi polar or some other thing goign on before I knew about BPD)

It has been the worst year of my life and I contemplated leaving on several occasions but I do want to her to ge the help she needs. I do have her goign to a counselor now... in fact tonight is the nigth that we go to counsleor together with my mom for her to appologoze and try to move forward. (Praying it goes well as I cant take much more ofthis.)

I feel bad that you are going through this as well, but there is a nd can be hope. I ended up having to finally put my foot down and tell her she WILL go to therapy or this relationship will be over. I am still trying to figure out if that is a good thing or not because she is going to save the marriage but I am not sure she is accepting her diagnosis or not or if she is going to therapy because she realizes she needs it.

Either way I pray you find a way to find peace and comfort in knowing your not alone and there are some tools to help but even excersizing all the tools will not keep things perfectly normal all of the time... .But it can help... I had to radically accept this for my own physical well being.

Wishing you the best.

[jrob4769]

I appreciate all responses here.

RolandOfEld, at this time I really don't see her moving past this.  To her this an issue of my family not communicating with her and excluding her and if "they" don't find a way to change, she is not going to put herself into situations where she feels like no one accepts her.  I actually agree with her from the standpoint of her not needing to enter a situation that will trigger her like she is now, but when the time comes for her to actually act upon her choice to not go to the next family gathering, I can't imagine what the fallout will be.  It will be her choice not to go, but the feelings she will experience from her choice will then be projected onto the family and myself.  It's a never ending cycle and looks like a spiral downward that looks impossible to reverse.   

[jrob4769]

Serenitywithin, I am very sorry to hear your story as well.  I am at the 6 month mark and I can't imagine what this will look like at the one year, 3 week mark for me.  It's interesting you mentioned going to the ER.  I already see a cardiologist annually due to some heart history in my family and my diabetes, but one year ago, pre-incident with the wife, on my EKG the doctor saw a premature contraction in my rhythm.  She counted them for 24 hours and there were between 800-900 of these irregular beats.  She said is was fine and probably not a problem to address unless it approaches 10,000 in a 24 hour period.  My annual visit was three weeks ago and again the irregular contraction was on the EKG.  She counted them again.  This year, post-incident with my wife, the count is now between 8,000-9,000.  I would bet all my paycheck this 10 fold increase in irregularity is due to the stress in my life.  I have an appointment with the electro-cardiologist next week to discuss what we do with this.  Perhaps it's natural, but I'm guessing it's not.

If you have found a way to stay in your marriage, I am encouraged I can as well.  My faith is strong and I know God is working in my life for the good and I expect a blessing of His glory to occur.  I also hope this occurs for my wife.  I simply pray for God to work on my time rather than His and usually that type of demand of Him doesn't work.  Ha!  He is sovereign over all.  I also know if I must leave because she cannot be at peace with us, I will have done all I know to do.

We have been in couples counseling, which I am sure has helped me.  I am not so sure about her, but at least she is engaged.  She feels like we are to a point where those visits should be less frequent and I know I can't let them end.  I must force that issue with her.  She is also in the middle of a 16 week women's group which is for women who have been victims of child abuse, sexual abuse, etc.  Counseling on top of this group is a little overwhelming for her so I am understanding as to why she sees the frequency is a little too much right now.  When that group ends I am going to ask her to go back to our couples counselor.

RolandofEld, I do pick my times away from my wife to talk to my family.  They are really starting to come to a place of not wanting anything to do with her.  They think they make things worse, but I told my Mom today that it does my wife no good to not hear from them.  If she is irrational, I say don't interact, but for them to send an occasional text saying "I hope you have a great day" or "I was thinking about you today and wanted to say I love you" would be things she needs to hear.  Who cares if she turns irrational?  At least they have shut down the narrative of her claiming they don't love her or include her in things.  That is what I am looking for are ways to shut down the irrational narratives my wife invents in her mind.

I would like to ask how your situation plays out on the occasions you get together with your family?  Does your wife go?  If not, how does she cope with you interacting with them?  If she does go, how uncomfortable does she make it for everyone?

I guess I can ask that same question of Serenitywithin.  How does the family interaction work now?  With holidays approaching I will be seeing my family whether she chooses to go or not, but I have already told her she cannot ask me about the visit when I get back.  I am going to enjoy them and not go to talk about her.  I also want to set this boundary with my family.  They don't quiz me about how she is and what my life is like at home, etc. so that we can all enjoy the time together. If they truly want to know about her I feel they should ask her, even if they get nothing in return.  This is not their fault.

[RolandOfEld]

At least they have shut down the narrative of her claiming they don't love her or include her in things.  That is what I am looking for are ways to shut down the irrational narratives my wife invents in her mind.

I'd say this is good for your own validation but it is unlikely any evidence no matter how strong could counter her own ideas. pwBPD can invent any evidence or rewrite any memory to suit the situation as they see it.

I would like to ask how your situation plays out on the occasions you get together with your family?  Does your wife go?  If not, how does she cope with you interacting with them?  If she does go, how uncomfortable does she make it for everyone?

There was a time when the idea of my wife have no contact with my family absolutely broke my heart. Now the idea of being able to have a phone call with them on my own without triggering her is already a happy situation for me. I am planning my first visit home next year (I live abroad in my wife's country in Asia) in close to 3 years and will take my two young children with me. I intentionally timed it during a week where I get vacation but she doesn't. She supports it thus far, but I'm very afraid of what happens when it gets close. I would much prefer she wasn't there and I could enjoy the first stress free interaction with my family since we got married. They all know what's going on and support any decision I make.

~ROE

[Notgoneyet]

Serenitywithin,
 Sent you a reply to PM. Sorry it took so long.
 Peace & hope NGY