Time to divorce? How do you know?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

After 35 years of marriage... .7 months of separation... .I, for the first time, am feeling courageous enough to admit that I want a divorce. I haven't made this public... .for I am not sure when to or if I'm ready for the backlash from church and family. The healthier I get, the more I know I absolutely cannot go back into such an unhealthy relationship.  Here's the struggle... .when do you know it's time to divorce? I am not one to give up so I know facing defeat is a big one.  But is it admitting defeat or is it declaring victory over the trauma?  I'd love to hear from those who've been at this juncture!

[Jersey G]

After 35 years of marriage... .7 months of separation... .I, for the first time, am feeling courageous enough to admit that I want a divorce. I haven't made this public... .for I am not sure when to or if I'm ready for the backlash from church and family. The healthier I get, the more I know I absolutely cannot go back into such an unhealthy relationship.  Here's the struggle... .when do you know it's time to divorce? I am not one to give up so I know facing defeat is a big one.  But is it admitting defeat or is it declaring victory over the trauma?  I'd love to hear from those who've been at this juncture!

[GreenSwampGuy]

I asked the same question almost verbatim myself to a friend of mine who went through a similar experience years before I had to.  His response was, "You'll know when you know."  For me it was a like a slowly building storm until one day I just couldn't take the abuse anymore and I knew it was time to get out.  It was both world shattering and liberating at the same time knowing that I had to move forward to save myself.  It has been one hell of a struggle but I feel myself getting happier every day.  To me its a victory.  I wish you the best my friend. 

[boldbp]

Going through the same thing myself! 20 year relationship, but I have had enough of the bs and I am not as upset about it as I thought I would be, I’m actually very accepting of the change and look forward to the change in my life. I always thought we would be married for life but it’s time. Good luck!

[Chitchat]

My parents split after 40 years of marriage. It think it was unplanned: my father while putting the kettle on didn't like for once not getting the last word in an argument and stormed out without any belongings. He's never regretted it. She regretted the years wasted, but wanted to be left alone after that. That was 25 years ago. Now they live one minute apart. He is still knocking on her window asking stupid questions like does she need any eggs, and she has the freedom to ignore him if she doesn't need them.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Jersey G, I wouldn't describe exiting an unhealthy situation as a "defeat."  Yes, I've been at that juncture and admire your courage for standing up for yourself after 35 years of marriage.  My BPDxW and I separated after 13 years of marriage and, once out from under an abusive situation, I never seriously considered going back.  I would say that you know it when you get to the point of wanting a divorce.  I wouldn't worry too much about the backlash from church and family, because they have no concept of what's it's really like on the inside of marriage to a pwBPD, whereas you and I, and the rest of us here, get it.

Feel free to ask any particular questions.

LuckyJim

[Chitchat]

Good luck to you, too, boldbp.

[MeandThee29]

Some people choose long-term separation for a variety of reasons. If you are OK financially and are more comfortable with that, why not?

I have theological reasons and still pray for a miracle. Some people have of course told me to do it and move on, but they aren't living my life.

I have very clear criteria for reconciliation which he completely refuses. I refuse his criteria for reconciliation. And there we are.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, Jersey G,

Concerning your question, when do you know it's time to divorce?  I would refer you to a quotation from the late Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, who famously said about pornography, "I know it when I see it"!   

Same could be said about divorce.  You'll know it when you get to that point, I predict.  Maybe you have reached that point?  Only you know for sure.

LJ

[Chitchat]

These are the questions I asked and the Dr's answers.  My husband has a diagnosis of Dependent Personality Disorder with Borderline Tendencies.

1.   What percent of people with DPD/BPD make a full recovery? None... .but some can make improvements enough to not meet all the criteria.

2.   In marriage, where one person is DPD, what percent end in divorce? Most all

3.   Do you personally know any success stories that I can glean from? None personally

4.   What percent of people with DPD relapse when back in a relationship? Most- given the very unhealthy dependency

5.   Do people with DPD need continual therapy? Yes- it is a life-long mental disability

6.   What percentage of people with DPD commit suicide or physically harm others? Hard to answer- but creating the "perfect storm" could move someone to take their life.  (Depression + spouse leaving + learning DPD is not "curable"

7.   How does one discern whether or not a person with DPD has affected lasting change given they parrot what they want you to hear? (Mirroring) You have to watch for behavioral changes.

8.   How long do you anticipate therapy before any real/lasting improvement?  Very small improvements have been made, and my husband is seeing a counselor and psychologist 3x a week.  Most people don't progress very far even with counseling.

9.   What would it realistically take to have a successful, healthy marriage with a person with DPD?  The spouse would need to realize she/he'd be living with someone with a mental illness.  It would require boundaries, management, lots of therapy, and the realization that it wouldn't ever be "healthy".

I understand your feeling of hopelessness, but if you are not ready for the decision yet, and you really are in a healthy position yourself, you could just take your time. Would you consider separation indefinitely? It is the 'solution' which my parents opted for, and I think it could have been worse.

Also, here I'm not sure, but over time you could take a second look at the medical advice you are receiving. Certainly doctors are known to wash their hands off BPD. But there are others, fewer, who are knowledgeable, compassionate and caring.

Maybe your husband could be persuaded to take a longer term view of this? I wonder if the doctor is as interested as you. The communication doesn't seem to be there.

'How to find a therapist' Dr Daniel Fox https://youtu.be/dhPM2DKE9h8

[Toad17]

I had the exact same question, and it unfolded in below order for me
1. I used to think about divorce when conflicts escalated but when things were back to normal, I would hope for relationship to get better
2. I started thinking about divorce even where there were no conflicts, because deep inside, I knew that the "normal phase" is actually not normal. It's a cycle that'll never end
3. I straw that broke the camel's back - when I realized that only I have the option to break the cycle because my wife is unwilling to end the cycle. To protect myself and my kid, I have to take this bold step to break the cycle. There is absolutely no way around it. It's not "IF" I want to break the cycle by moving out but "WHEN" I want to divorce
When the last IF/WHEN part became very clear for me, I knew it was time to take next steps - legal advice, preparing myself by reading more books, getting more support system (like this forum) and basically embracing the storm.
It's very hard to end 35 years of marriage. Our support and help will be always with you.

[Jersey G]

I so love this board... .can we just start there?  To know there is a place I can vent, ask questions, get educated... .all the while knowing you all "get it"?  It's such a gift... .thank you!

I am meeting with my husband tonight (public place-only 30 min) to discuss the financial picture.  I so appreciate everyone's input.  Divorce is not an easy decision for me- especially given the financial ramifications, but I can't deny it is what my heart wants and it is currently the only solution that brings me peace. 

Can anyone recommend resources on walking thru divorce?  I believe right now I am to start by educating myself on what that would look like. 

Thank you again! 
Jersey G

[flourdust]

Hi, Jersey G. I suggest you start a post to ask questions about basic divorce resources on our Family Law board -- that's where you'll find the members with the most relevant experience who can help you.

[Toad17]

I had the exact same question, and it unfolded in below order for me
1. I used to think about divorce when conflicts escalated but when things were back to normal, I would hope for relationship to get better
2. I started thinking about divorce even where there were no conflicts, because deep inside, I knew that the "normal phase" is actually not normal. It's a cycle that'll never end
3. I straw that broke the camel's back - when I realized that only I have the option to break the cycle because my wife is unwilling to end the cycle. To protect myself and my kid, I have to take this bold step to break the cycle. There is absolutely no way around it. It's not "IF" I want to break the cycle by moving out but "WHEN" I want to divorce
When the last IF/WHEN part became very clear for me, I knew it was time to take next steps - legal advice, preparing myself by reading more books, getting more support system (like this forum) and basically embracing the storm.
It's very hard to end 35 years of marriage. Our support and help will be always with you.

One more point - our internal emotions convey lot of information. When I was in step 3, I felt liberated and happy. That's when I knew deep inside that I was headed in the right direction. My therapist acknowledged this as well.

[Jersey G]

Thank you so much, everyone, for your input!  I will head to the Family Law board!