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Author Topic: Now we've moved to hate speech  (Read 393 times)
WitzEndWife
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« on: December 11, 2018, 04:21:52 PM »

I think I'm still in shock here. uBPDh and I have polar opposite politics and, of course, in this political climate, it's been pretty contentious. He tries to force me to listen to his political pundits on YouTube, and only very seldom I'll indulge it. In true BPD fashion, of course, he frames it as *I* am the one who is closed minded to his views, when he won't even listen to a second of anything from my side. He starts yelling and using mocking voices.

Yesterday, I was listening to a podcast when he was in the other room, and he came in and started commenting on it. He asked me who the person was and I told him the name of the guy. He followed with signaling an anti-Semitic symbol, one that is only used by extremists. I was shocked. While I'm not practicing, my family is Jewish, I grew up celebrating Jewish and Christian holidays. In recent years, my ancestors graves were defiled in an act of hate. His comment made me deeply sad, scared, and betrayed. I told him so. He laughed it off, saying he was using it "ironically." I was hurt, so I said, "So, do you burn crosses on people's lawns ironically also?" He rolled his eyes, like I was being "Oh, so ridiculous." Later, in a text to me from downstairs, he used the symbol again, to poke at me.

Something in my gut has totally shifted. I feel strange, scared, betrayed. And the thing is, he 100 percent sees it as me overreacting. He doesn't see it as I see it, the deep, deep hurt it causes. This goes beyond calling me a name. I can't describe it. And I'm not sure if it's the BPD trying to hurt me, or how he really feels. But, really, should it matter?
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believer55
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2018, 07:25:56 PM »

Hi Witz

I am sorry you are going through a tough time at the moment. I can imagine how hurt you must feel and how insensitive his actions must appear. From my experience, if BPDh wants to "get at me" he will pick something he knows will get to the core of me and really hurt me. I can only gather that is is a ploy for attention and it is a sign he is feeling overwhelmed inside and needs to make himself "feel better" by making someone else pay for how he is feeling. It is very much part of the Narcissistic part of BPD.  I see it so clearly now.

I am still trying to devise ways to protect myself from his venom, but all avenues have failed me so far  I try to tell myself not to bite into it, but he can be so hurtful I would have to be a robot to not feel something. I try to leave the room but he just follows me and keeps going. What I do know is that he does not necessarily believe what he is saying to me at the time - it is all about getting a reaction.

Your husband may not believe in the actions he is showing - he is wanting to make you hurt to take the focus off his own demons. This does not make thing hurt less - but I think the trick is to externalise it as much as possible.

Hugs to you xxxx it's not easy
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2018, 09:13:29 PM »

So sorry, WEW. That he seems to be purposely doing that to hurt you is certainly unkind.   

You say something in your gut has shifted and you feel frightened and betrayed. Could this be that you are seeing him with fresh eyes?

Cat
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Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2018, 04:33:24 AM »

I can understand why this upset you.

How is your H handling the fact that you have different political views than he does? From what I understand, people with poor boundaries see their loved ones as not being separate from them. When you express your separate views, it somehow irks or surprises them.

I agree with the others that, when your H saw you listening to the podast from the "other side" he got irritated and did what he did- to either irritate you back, or in a mocking way? Whatever his reason, it was poor taste and not mature and I also wouldn't want to see someone do that.

As Cat said- do you think he really believes that or was he reacting in the moment? Not that I condone his response but I think it would be good to clarify his feelings/intentions. I also think you can have a boundary on this- you don't want to see expressions like these. You can't control what he thinks but don't engage and leave the room if he does that.
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babyducks
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2018, 04:47:58 AM »

Hi Witzendwife,

I understand what you mean.     I am an observant but not orthodox Jew.    I have a liberal interpretation of the tradition that I practice.

Attacks on my faith or my heritage are not just attacks on me, but on my entire family, my community, my people, my traditions.   This does go beyond calling me a name, it's also slandering my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents.    To me.

In the climate we find ourselves I have experienced an uptick in all sorts of hate speech.    recently I had the experience of 'sheltering in place'  while we waited for an all clear.    in this highly charged, highly volatile environment, where people are already feeling insecure, using hate speech or gestures is like throwing gas on the fire.    in my opinion.

I can see why a person who functions within a high level of shame, and with a low level of empathy and executive function would do it.

It's the ultimate 'I Am In The Right/Better Group And You Are Not'.   for a person who doesn't have the internal ability to feel good about themselves it must be compelling to be told 'you are the better person because of___________' and fill in the blank however you want.   it's a great way to project shame onto some one else.   it's a great way to make themselves look/feel better at the expense of someone else.   what I would call pulling themselves up using some one elses boot straps.

I am sorry he doesn't see the deep hurt it causes.   I am very sorry but not terribly surprised.   to protect a fragile sense of self, pwBPD will paint the picture,   fill in the details, view the situation, in ways that will support their narrative.    ~see she is the weaker, more sensitive person, look how upset she gets by a simple gesture~  is a false argument that supports his narrative.

may I suggest a firm hard boundary.     and zero JADE.   I don't think this is something you want to Explain to him.    why a gesture of this type would be upsetting.   I think you draw a firm hard boundary and enforce it.     what would a boundary look like around this?   for me it would be I won't engage in conversations of this nature, I will leave the discussion, room, house until I feel able to listen to your thoughts/opinions.   

what do you think?

'ducks
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WitzEndWife
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 12:21:08 PM »

Having some time to clear my head on it, I do think he was likely doing this out of lashing out, rather than really intending harm. However, that kind of thing isn't acceptable, and I needed to probably leave the room sooner, rather than engaging him at all after that. The lashing out often seems like it comes out of nowhere, like someone just slapping you in the face. Your instinct is, obviously, to fight back because it's natural to want to protect yourself. I am getting better at walking away eventually, but I need to get better at walking away immediately. I did go upstairs and sit by myself in the bedroom with the door locked for a while. It almost always is the best way to handle him because he can't stand it when I leave him alone and often resolves his behavior.

I guess that's the only way to communicate that I won't tolerate that kind of hatred in my home. Other than ultimately ending things, of course. How much of that kind of abuse should a person take?
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Red5
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Red5


« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2018, 01:59:34 PM »

(quote's WitzEndWife)
Excerpt
... .that kind of thing isn't acceptable,


No it is certainly not !

Excerpt
... .I won't tolerate that kind of hatred in my home.

No you shouldn't!

Excerpt
How much of that kind of abuse should a person take?

No one, (you WitzEndWife) should not have to listen to it, or tolerate it ... ."that kind of abuse", its up to you/we/us/me to set the boundary, and to keep it ... ."you will stop talking to me like that, I am not going to tolerate it"... .and then leave, step away, remove yourself from the scene ... .or else, stand your ground and tell him, I think you need to leave !

Red5
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believer55
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 08:30:02 PM »

Excerpt
The lashing out often seems like it comes out of nowhere, like someone just slapping you in the face. Your instinct is, obviously, to fight back because it's natural to want to protect yourself.

I find even if I look at a book or magazine for a while the resentment starts. As mentioned by others - if your attention is given to something that does not include your SO they may start to act out to 1- punish you for you now paying them enough attention, 2- get your attention (in a good way or not).

I am finding walking away (and I have to lock the bathroom door) works best. Even though at first BPDh feels rejected/abandoned , I have been doing it consistently and he now associates it with his acting out and I find he gets on top of his behaviour quicker as he knows that is what will bring me back. When I come back we just go on as normal . It sounds basic but it goes back to conditioning, basic reward/punishment (I don't like that word) schedules.

Our instinct to protect ourselves is so natural - don't beat yourself up about it  
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Notwendy
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2018, 06:37:31 AM »

I think you have brought up a key point- attention to something else- as well as something else that is different from him.

I think also - that if we have a strong boundary about something, our SO's are aware of that. Making any kind of remark that is bigoted disgusts me and I would leave the conversation. Reacting to them - to me- reinforces the act- he's doing it to get your attention and even negative attention ( upsetting you) is reinforcement. I would respond with " I don't want to hear/see this kind of thing" and leave the room.

The other issue is how you feel. I would not want to be around someone who made the gestures/remarks your H did about anyone, but if it is a close family member who I am in contact with, it would be important to me to find out the motive. I think about the idea that pwBPD can be emotionally immature. Are these actions  at the emotional level of the playground bully who wants attention or is he really antisemitic?  The playground bully can be educated to know better than to do this. I would have a greater issue with an adult who truly feels this way.
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formflier
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WWW
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 11:36:56 AM »


I'm Baptist.  One of my Naval Aviator buddies went to "Jewish Seminary" (sorry... I know that's not the proper name) and then transitioned from naval aviator to chaplain in the Navy.  We would have long talks about Jewish faith and history.  Fascinating.

I also have a number of friends that are Jewish.

The thing that stands out to me is that I have't met a Jewish person yet, where if you get to a point where it's appropriate to ask... .or it somehow comes up... .100% have family that died in the Holocaust.  The emotion involved is palpable.

I can see where that experience is hard for a pwBPD to grasp or anyway "properly" relate to such a thing.  If there is such a way to be "proper" about such a thing.


FF
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